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[Usobuko]

Since the beginning of TI, the bottom 8 always get nothing. I am personally fine with that, what I want from the start was always more % of sales allocated to the tournament.

What should be concerning is that the prize tally of TI blew out of the competition and makes all relevant tournament, SL, ACE, Dreamhack, G-1 irrelevant to say the least. It's was somewhat this case and this very TI will just accentuate this trend. Even if the compendium sales came to a halt, the first place in TI4 is likely to get over $2M.

 

[lucebuce12]

Guys, we're saving e-sports!

That's assuming it even needed to be saved.

 

[FACE]

Guys, we're saving D I G I T A L S P O R T S

Fixed that.

 

[Skinpop]

Likely not directly into their bank accounts. I'm sure team organizations and sponsors get their cut as well.

valve only pays out directly to the players. that's how it has been in the past.

 

[Haly]

valve only pays out directly to the players. that's how it has been in the past.

I'm sure there are some agreements in place that divide winnings to some extent but it varies from team to team and organizations.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I'm sure there are some agreements in place that divide winnings to some extent but it varies from team to team and organizations.

For the International, Valve pays the players directly. It doesn't matter the team, the players get the money.

 

[Skinpop]

I'm sure there are some agreements in place that divide winnings to some extent but it varies from team to team and organizations.

that would have to be between players and organizations I guess. This actually caused some controversy during TI 1 which led to artstyle leaving Na'Vi. When they won the 1 million dollars each player gave 10% of their share to the manager(as they had agreed upon ) except for artstyle who didn't want to pay the manager.

I think it's for the best that valve pays directly to players though, esports organizations are notorious for being shady.

 

[SteveWinwood]

they need to put some of the money into a trust that the players cant touch for ten years

 

[Haunted]

Promising new heroes (either Dota 1 parity or entirely new heroes(!)) would be the logical next stretch goal that will get the community excited.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

if the money were to stop flowing in right now, how much would the first place team get?

 

[Haunted]

if the money were to stop flowing in right now, how much would the first place team get?

If they keep the same distribution as last year, 2,85 million dollars. 570k per player.

Which would put each of the players of the winning team into the Top 5 of esports prize winners (not counting salaries) all-time, even if they had not won a single dollar before that.

 

[Qvoth]

man, few days ago i thought prize would just stop after 4m

 

[SteveWinwood]

if the money were to stop flowing in right now, how much would the first place team get?

We're not too far off from 4th place winners making 6 figure incomes.

 

[Haunted]

Let's spread the love a bit:

1st      - 33%
2nd      - 20%
3rd      - 12%
4th      - 7%
5th-8th  - 4%
9th-16th - 1,5%

With a hypothetical 6 million prize pool, it'd look something like this:

1st      - 1,980,000
2nd      - 1,200,000
3rd      - 720,000
4th      - 420,000
5th-8th  - 240,000
9th-16th - 90,000

Still the single biggest prize for a team ever, a meaningful distinction between each tier, the top 4 placement matters -but most importantly, every team that managed to qualify or worked hard enough throughout the year to get invited will receive a good fucking payday.

Spoiler

and you know we'll get past 6 million easy

 

[Delusibeta]

Thanks, I was assuming I could get points by playing, but didn't see a way

25 Compendium points are a very common drop if you win a game.

 

[Big Dog]

Yeah hopefully some of the next stretch goals get us some votes for new heroes or something. While I am not begging for Goblin Techies or anything (they will be a pain to face) it would be nice to tease us with some upcoming heroes. There are a few who have plenty of resources in game right now. Soon enough the game will have all of the heroes and they get to begin creating their own completely original stuff.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Let's spread the love a bit:

1st      - 33%
2nd      - 20%
3rd      - 12%
4th      - 7%
5th-8th  - 4%
9th-16th - 1,5%

With a hypothetical 6 million prize pool, it'd look something like this:

1st      - 1,980,000
2nd      - 1,200,000
3rd      - 720,000
4th      - 420,000
5th-8th  - 240,000
9th-16th - 90,000

Still the single biggest prize for a team ever, a meaningful distinction between each tier, the top 4 placement matters -but most importantly, every team that managed to qualify or worked hard enough throughout the year to get invited will receive a good fucking payday.

Spoiler

and you know we'll get past 6 million easy

I'm all for spreading the wealth but first being waaaaaay ahead of second is part of the fun. There is enough money to spread to the lowers without losing the comically big stuff at the top.

 

[Shorty11857]

We're not too far off from 4th place winners making 6 figure incomes.

I kind of hope they keep the distribution but give the bottom 8 a token payment, something like

25k for 9th - 12th
10k for 13th - 16th

 

[Dahbomb]

Get top 8 or go home.

 

[FACE]

Let's spread the love a bit:

1st      - 33%
2nd      - 20%
3rd      - 12%
4th      - 7%
5th-8th  - 4%
9th-16th - 1,5%

With a hypothetical 6 million prize pool, it'd look something like this:

1st      - 1,980,000
2nd      - 1,200,000
3rd      - 720,000
4th      - 420,000
5th-8th  - 240,000
9th-16th - 90,000

Still the single biggest prize for a team ever, a meaningful distinction between each tier, the top 4 placement matters -but most importantly, every team that managed to qualify or worked hard enough throughout the year to get invited will receive a good fucking payday.

Spoiler

and you know we'll get past 6 million easy

Nah, I think 1st place should get 50%.

 

[Dex815]

Some people in this thread seem to be upset with D I G I T A L S P O R T S... here, let me help you to recover the spirit with some music:

http://youtu.be/guIaCocnNaw

 

[Nzyme32]

Nah, I think 1st place should get 50%.

I agree, there needs to be a big incentive to actually win than just do "good enough" as well as a bit of devastation for losing

 

[Haunted]

you guys are so mean

 

[Usobuko]

9th to 12th team getting a sum of the money is okay because at the very least, you need to win a game that matters in a bo1 format. For every team to be rewarded in TI is a bad idea. There is just so little incentive to perform well and not fuck around trying to win viewership for their side income ( through streaming ) like some of the NA LoL teams. According to the above prize tally distribution, the 12-16th place earn more income per month than some working folks in first world country individually.

 

[Rubius]

The splits that Valve have used for these tournaments are terrible. It's just obscenely top heavy. I just don't see how it foster a healthy scene when basically the top 3 finishes get all the money. Not to mention only the top 8 teams get anything at all.

Winning 75 000$ to be the 8th best team in the world, for a digital game is really good. Gold, Silver and Bronze should get most of the money since they are the winners.

 

[SteveWinwood]

D I G I T A L S P O R T S

 

[shira]

Winning 75 000$ to be the 8th best team in the world, for a digital game is really good. Gold, Silver and Bronze should get most of the money since they are the winners.

No, because that creates only super rich teams which poach all the best players like Navi, EG, and DK. They can afford all the best players so what's the point of these other teams existing?

That would make it impossible for new talent to break into the sport. The only way you could succeed is if a major team bought you.

I'd rather they set aside scholarships or gradual payments so they don't blow it all like pro athletes in every other sport.

 

[Dodecagon]

Why even have sports in the title? Isn't competitive gaming closer to a chess tournament than a soccer match?

 

[Haly]

Why even have sports in the title? Isn't competitive gaming closer to a chess tournament than a soccer match?

To associate with other major spectator events like sports.

Chess might be popular but it doesn't turn out viewers like this.

And DOTA2 as a game has more in common with Football and Basketball than Chess.

 

[Rubius]

No, because that creates only super rich teams which poach all the best players like Navi, EG, and DK. They can afford all the best players so what's the point of these other teams existing?

That would make it impossible for new talent to break into the sport. The only way you could succeed is if a major team bought you.

I'd rather they set aside scholarships or gradual payments so they don't blow it all like pro athletes in every other sport.

They are teams of 5 players. Not 30. Even if you have 5 top players, other teams can get 5 as good players. And it's a dex and knowledge based game, so even a second tier player have chances against the top tier.

You should not get 40 000$ just for showing up to a Valve event and be 12. If you are the loser, you should not gain 40 000$ in prize for losing.

 

[shira]

Why even have sports in the title? Isn't competitive gaming closer to a chess tournament than a soccer match?

I wouldn't be suprised if the IOC picks up e-sports if it brings in enough $$$ ratings.

They are teams of 5 players. Not 30. Even if you have 5 top players, other teams can get 5 as good players. And it's a dex and knowledge based game, so even a second tier player have chances against the top tier.

You should not get 40 000$ just for showing up to a Valve event and be 12. If you are the loser, you should not gain 40 000$ in prize for losing.

OK so navi basically ruined 2 teams (mouz, empire) to steal their 2 best players
Same with DK taking arguably the best player from TI3 off of Orange.
Alex basically bought RTZ who is in high school.

You really think this is the best way to do things? Some of these teams don't even have sponsors and now you want some teams to have millions of dollars in their warchest on top of millions by the sponsors.

How is an amateur scene supposed to flourish?

 

[Usobuko]

No, because that creates only super rich teams which poach all the best players like Navi, EG, and DK. They can afford all the best players so what's the point of these other teams existing?

That would make it impossible for new talent to break into the sport. The only way you could succeed is if a major team bought you.

I'd rather they set aside scholarships or gradual payments so they don't blow it all like pro athletes in every other sport.

What.

EG has always been a big esports organisation. They got 12th in TI2 ( which meant $0 ), failed to quality for TI3 how does it makes them super rich from TI? Some of the team owners in China are rich individuals, the prize tally really doesn't matter to them than the pride of their team winning The International. Besides, Mushi and Icex3 join DK to stand a chance of winning TI4 rather than rotting in the non-existent SEA scene. In NaVi case, they has always been strong and was the one who took TI seriously. In that tournament, the chinese teams thought the tournament was a scam, Scythe has like 2 weeks of practice where hyhy just round up all the best possible available players in SG to go for the tournament. NaVi had a good squad right at the start and even when changes are made, they always retains most of their core players.

 

[Gxgear]

D I G I T A L S P O R T S

What's this referring to?

 

[Razzer]

What's this referring to?

It's in the new Stanley Parable announcer pack.

 

[Shengar]

D I G I T A L S P O R T S

What's the source of this meme? I never know that digital sport spelled as D I G I T A L S P O R T S .

 

[FACE]

What's the source of this meme? I never know that digital sport spelled as D I G I T A L S P O R T S .

Behold, as always, the majesty of D I G I T A L S P O R T S

 

[Soule]

I'm enjoying the stanley parable announcer >

 

[hamchan]

I kind of hope they keep the distribution but give the bottom 8 a token payment, something like

25k for 9th - 12th
10k for 13th - 16th

Yes, they should get something at least. Even Wimbledon gives prize money to people that only reach Q1. In The International these teams had to go through a ton of qualifiers or had to do well in other tournaments just to get in. They deserve a little something for their hard effort and it helps the scene stay more stable too.

 

[Aselith]

9th to 12th team getting a sum of the money is okay because at the very least, you need to win a game that matters in a bo1 format. For every team to be rewarded in TI is a bad idea. There is just so little incentive to perform well and not fuck around trying to win viewership for their side income ( through streaming ) like some of the NA LoL teams. According to the above prize tally distribution, the 12-16th place earn more income per month than some working folks in first world country individually.

90k split 5 ways is 18k not exactly living the high life. I think it should be skewed higer on the 1st place side but paying the bottom half of the 16 best dota teams in the world a livable wage to be the worst of the elite is not going to destabilize the sport.

The first place winnings will be plenty of motivation to try to win.

 

[spindoctor]

I kind of feel that Valve should be slightly more equitable with the prize distribution. The dollar amounts that we're talking about now really makes first and second feel extremely far apart. On the other hand, I'm not sure I subscribe to the idea that everyone should get prize money. The lowest placed teams got an all expenses paid vacation and a chance to compete with the best teams around.

 

[Aselith]

I kind of feel that Valve should be slightly more equitable with the prize distribution. The dollar amounts that we're talking about now really makes first and second feel extremely far apart. On the other hand, I'm not sure I subscribe to the idea that everyone should get prize money. The lowest placed teams got an all expenses paid vacation and a chance to compete with the best teams around.

Right but this is their job and they spend months and months preparing for the tournament and competing in qualifiers in addition probably losing chances at other coinciding tournaments. It's not a trivial thing to take part in the International.

 

[Goddard]

Right but this is their job and they spend months and months preparing for the tournament and competing in qualifiers in addition probably losing chances at other coinciding tournaments. It's not a trivial thing to take part in the International.

It's not their job, it is something they are treating like a job. It is a competition, and equalizing the amount of money all the contenders get is a fucking insane idea. Just because some tier 2 teams play 16 hours a day of Dota 2 just for the hopes of winning a ton of money doesn't mean they deserve a ton of money.

 

[Aselith]

It's not their job, it is something they are treating like a job. It is a competition, and equalizing the amount of money all the contenders get is a fucking insane idea. Just because some tier 2 teams play 16 hours a day of Dota 2 just for the hopes of winning a ton of money doesn't mean they deserve a ton of money.

Nobody has said equalize it soooo what? 18k is not a "ton of money" in the context of this competition where millions are on the line.

 

[GorillaJu]

Passion

Foresight

And calculation

 

[spindoctor]

Right but this is their job and they spend months and months preparing for the tournament and competing in qualifiers in addition probably losing chances at other coinciding tournaments. It's not a trivial thing to take part in the International.

Well firstly, there's no Dota 2 tournament that coincides with the International. Secondly, if a team is good enough to get invited to the event, they have already been winning tournaments and getting prize money from there. If they come out of nowhere and go through the qualifiers, they will likely pick up sponsors (which is apparently happening right now to the team that qualified from North America). And finally, if they are good enough to reach the International, they are good enough to place in the money. That is literally what they are competing for.

I understand your sentiment about how difficult it is to make a living off esports, but in most cases the players who are competing here are already over the hump.

 

[HK-47]

Well firstly, there's no Dota 2 tournament that coincides with the International. Secondly, if a team is good enough to get invited to the event, they have already been winning tournaments and getting prize money from there. If they come out of nowhere and go through the qualifiers, they will likely pick up sponsors (which is apparently happening right now to the team that qualified from North America). And finally, if they are good enough to reach the International, they are good enough to place in the money. That is literally what they are competing for.

I understand your sentiment about how difficult it is to make a living off esports, but in most cases the players who are competing here are already over the hump.

What makes you think that?

 

[Aselith]

Well firstly, there's no Dota 2 tournament that coincides with the International. Secondly, if a team is good enough to get invited to the event, they have already been winning tournaments and getting prize money from there. If they come out of nowhere and go through the qualifiers, they will likely pick up sponsors (which is apparently happening right now to the team that qualified from North America). And finally, if they are good enough to reach the International, they are good enough to place in the money. That is literally what they are competing for.

I understand your sentiment about how difficult it is to make a living off esports, but in most cases the players who are competing here are already over the hump.

First, There are tournaments going on right now during the qualifiers so are you sure about that? Not the main event but certainly there are games that go during qualifiers.
Second, they are competing for the BIG money which is first. Being the 16th best in the world is not shit and it deserves a small amount of recognition. 90k is a drop in the bucket compared to 4 million or whatever it gets up to.

What makes you think that?

Right? Some of these dudes seem fairly broke. I mean wasn't part of Fear's story in Free to Play that he had an old shit box computer to play on? Yeah, some are doing well but not the lower half of the field.

 

[Rahk]

It's not their job, it is something they are treating like a job. It is a competition, and equalizing the amount of money all the contenders get is a fucking insane idea. Just because some tier 2 teams play 16 hours a day of Dota 2 just for the hopes of winning a ton of money doesn't mean they deserve a ton of money.

What do you mean treating it like a job? If they are making a living off of playing Dota 2 then it is their job.

 

[iamblades]

First, There are tournaments going on right now during the qualifiers so are you sure about that? Not the main event but certainly there are games that go during qualifiers.
Second, they are competing for the BIG money which is first. Being the 16th best in the world is not shit and it deserves a small amount of recognition. 90k is a drop in the bucket compared to 4 million or whatever it gets up to.



Right? Some of these dudes seem fairly broke. I mean wasn't part of Fear's story in Free to Play that he had an old shit box computer to play on? Yeah, some are doing well but not the lower half of the field.

to be fair, that was at the very beginning, there was no financially viable pro dota scene prior to the international, so it's not surprising fear was broke.


These days every team who qualifies for the international receives sponsorship money or will from making the tournament. If you perform well enough to make TI, you will be able to make enough to live off when you consider second and third tier tournament prize winnings and sponsorship revenue. The lone exception would be some of the shoestring SEA organizations, as they don't make it to many international competitions and the local prize pools aren't very lucrative.

No one who qualifies for TI is going to go home broke and empty handed. I fully expect NAR to pick up a sponsor before TI, Team Dog got sponsored before even qualifying.

The all expenses paid trip to seattle and the chance to play in the tournament is enough reward for just making the tournament, if you want more you gotta earn it.

 

[Darryl]

I wonder if they prepared this far. I seriously thought when they announced this that we'd end up at like 4M or so. This is insane.