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[TheSpoiler]

I think the fights are straight up boring. To me, Yu Yu did tournies right - a mix of power and gimmicks. Almost every fight was impressive and decently thought out or exciting.

Here, it's like HURR I HAVE POISON I HAVE HEAT I HAVE KICK I HAVE DISPERSE ENERGY. It feels like they are fighting (and not learning from) the gimmicks moreso than the person. Piccolo could have thrown Frost's stupid ass outside the ring but nope. Vegeta is fighting a guy who is literally making it too hot, and it wouldn't be that big of a problem if this show wasn't trying to mix Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z at the same time in a grey, messy bland tasting concoction.

I really hope the Cabba and Hit fights bring out some real action, because so far this has been straight up boring.

 

[ArtHands]

This is all well and good. But let me compare Vegeta to some other characters who are in a similar situation, from other anime.

We have Vash from Trigun, and Kenshin from Rurouni Kenshin. In those stories, both characters have made a big change from their past lives. They live a new life, with different morality and different rules. However, they are still haunted by their mistakes and the events that happened in the past. Even a changed person still has to deal with the memories and the reality of who they were compared to who they've become.

Kenshin especially deals with the risk of turning back to the way he used to be, when trying to face a new threat. It's just a human characteristic that one has to face the past daily when trying to live life.

With Vegeta, he just simply has become almost a new person. The writers have written in a few quirks here and there to let us know that it's still the same Vegeta, but the actual character is almost completely different. There's not much that embraces the history of what he's gone through, and what people watching have gone through.

My point has been that even though he's a changed man, he still has to deal with the consequences of a shitty past. The show hasn't really done much towards that side of his character in Super. They kind of wrote a new character in the shell of an old one.

EDIT: It's not a perfect comparison, and perhaps it's asking too much of a show that is long past its prime. Super is going in a different direction, perhaps more of a middle ground between the original series and Z. I suppose maybe I've just gotten impatient with the series after these years, and going back is giving me a more cynical reaction nowadays.

I'll say Vegeta has embraced and overcome it. He's not going to wallow in self-pity, especially since he's a saiyan. He's going to think 'yah I made mistakes, but I have already stopped. What else do you want?' I don't even think he's going to lose any sleep over those stuffs at all.

He even straight up tell Cabba that they as Saiyans did some horrible things in the past, but they have stopped doing now. Its just that most of the time, there's no need to keep bringing up about this.

 

[Real Hero]

And Goku gets to fight again after Vegeta, who would have thought.

only to lose to Hit

 

[Skii]

There are so many better ways the Piccolo fight could've been executed for me. Here's a few:

1. Jaco realises immediately that Goku has been poisoned and the big reveal is made that Frost is evil. He is about to be disqualified but Piccolo wants to finish him himself. Piccolo does his special beam cannon and rings out Frost.

2. Piccolo realises Frost cheated against Goku but keeps it quiet. The same thing happens but when Piccolo is poisoned, it has little to no effect because he's Namekian and he beats Frost. Frost is then revealed to be evil.

3. The story plays out normally but after Frost is supposed to be disqualified, Piccolo asks to finish him off. Frost thinks he's beaten Piccolo by ripping off his arm or something but Piccolo manages to ring him out by using his regeneration to fool him.

There are probably many other ways to do this to ensure Piccolo actually makes a real contribution to this tournament. These are just a few I can quickly think of.

I don't think the story is poor or the writing for the entire tournament is poor. Just for Piccolo's character. He shouldn't have been used as a plot device to get Goku to start and end the tournament. It could've been done a lot better.

 

[LordOfChaos]

So eh, Hit can breathe in space too? It was fun to see Vados care though. All that two week speculation, and nothing. Haha.

Framing was good too (particularly at the start, though there was a weird 'clearly a freelancer' shot with frost in perspective), with the way they moved swiftly from the announcer to the god twins and other things. Every Beerus frame was gold, imo.
Fun episode, and it seems this tournament isn't just a sideshow either.

I thought it was concern over Frost running away with Champas box (giggity), not over Hit being able to breath in the vacuum. She said "I didn't need to come" or something along the lines, probably as in to catch Frost.

Now with Hit wanting that Box(giggity)...That makes me really think Universe 6 may win this. Hit having a box for transport that is faster than the gods can manage would be an interesting setup...

 

[J-Rod]

I wish vegeta had ginyu'ed frost. It's fine to have him get over his pride and all that, but I don't want him too soft. Make him distinguishable from goku by being willing to kill those who need killing.

 

[Zolo]

I thought it was concern over Frost running away with Champas box (giggity), not over Hit being able to breath in the vacuum. She said "I didn't need to come" or something along the lines, probably as in to catch Frost.

Now with Hit wanting that Box(giggity)...That makes me really think Universe 6 may win this. Hit having a box for transport that is faster than the gods can manage would be an interesting setup...

I think we can safely say Universe 6 will win if only because of Hit. There's too many interesting setups for Universe 6 winning for it to not to happen imo.

 

[GuessMyUserName]

I wish vegeta had ginyu'ed frost. It's fine to have him get over his pride and all that, but I don't want him too soft. Make him distinguishable from goku by being willing to kill those who need killing.

But being willing to kill doesn't mean he should kill for no reason. I like that Vegeta will do what needs to be done without any hesitation the way he cleared Ginyu, and with Frost it really just showed he's not killing for insignificant reasons.

 

[LordOfChaos]

I wish vegeta had ginyu'ed frost. It's fine to have him get over his pride and all that, but I don't want him too soft. Make him distinguishable from goku by being willing to kill those who need killing.

I actually think it would have been the moral thing to do. This guy was a tyrant the same as Freiza, just more subtle about it, and caused war on untold hundreds of worlds.

Though if Hit/Vados are imprisoning him instead, that could be fine.

 

[The Silver]

I actually think it would have been the moral thing to do. This guy was a tyrant the same as Freiza, just more subtle about it, and caused war on untold hundreds of worlds.

Though if Hit/Vados are imprisoning him instead, that could be fine.

Like Goku, Vegeta ain't a superhero, they don't care to fight evil or anything unless you fuck with them or someone they care about directly.

 

[BladeoftheImmortal]

The rules said no killing, too.

 

[Real Hero]

The rules said no killing, too.

Not for that fight

 

[shadowsdarknes]

The rules said no killing, too.

The rules are a bit of a joke in this tournament.

 

[LordOfChaos]

The rules said no killing, too.

For that round the logic seemed to be "if we allow the poison, fuck it, we're not doing rules". Stupid, but everyone seemed in.

 

[Zolo]

Not for that fight

A big deal seemed to be made about how part of Frost's evilness was breaking the rules.

Spoiler

Even though Goku did using Nimbus in that one fight in Dragon Ball.

 

[BBQMan]

I'm all for U6 winning. Bring on the new Universe. The U6 Kai was lying to Elder Kai for sure about the Metalman thing.

 

[GaimeGuy]

Like Goku, Vegeta ain't a superhero, they don't care to fight evil or anything unless you fuck with them or someone they care about directly.

I'm not even sure you can say that about Goku (vegeta, yes)

 

[The Light]

We waited for a falcon punch? Piccolo should've won. If all they wanted was that gag then they could've had frost try to destroy the planet after losing then had vegeta send him flying.

They straight up crapped on piccolo just to give vegeta a gag.

 

[Mory Dunz]

The episodes are getting a litter better. The comedy is there.

But the fighting choreography is still consistently poor. They haven't used levels (as in verticality) at all. DBZ, when it was on point, was always great at that. Super so far usually remains too grounded, or keeps both characters on the same plane for an entire sequence. The animation and stills in the episodes weren't even bad, but the choreography is gone.

 

[Welfare]

The episodes are getting a litter better. The comedy is there.

But the fighting choreography is still consistently poor. They haven't used levels (as in verticality) at all. DBZ, when it was on point, was always great at that. Super so far usually remains too grounded, or keeps both characters on the same plane for an entire sequence. The animation and stills in the episodes weren't even bad, but the choreography is gone.

This current fight is all about Vegeta not getting close to Magetta and using flying to his advantage since Magetta can't.

 

[Ingeniero]

Vegeta turned SSJ instantly and finished Frost off inmediatly, great character develpment right there, he learned the lesson from RoF.

I'm ok with Goku getting back into the tourney, it was inevitable.
I'm glad that Magetta is not useless, he's making Vegeta sweat at least.

Vegeta vs Cabba is going to happen, I hope they become friends after the fight and Vegeta shows him how to become SSJ.

Also, what's up with the Piccolo moaning? he wasn't supposed to be in the tournament in the first place, he is useless, at least he had his moment and technicaly won.

 

[Byakuya769]

Vegeta turned SSJ instantly and finished Frost off inmediatly, great character develpment right there, he learned the lesson from RoF.

I'm ok with Goku getting back into the tourney, it was inevitable.
I'm glad that Magetta is not useless, he's making Vegeta sweat at least.

Vegeta vs Cabba is going to happen, I hope they become friends after the fight and Vegeta shows him how to become SSJ.

Also, what's up with the Piccolo moaning? he wasn't supposed to be in the tournament in the first place, he is useless, at least he had his moment and technically won.

What's up with people wanting others to not suck besides the Saiyan bros? What's up with Dragon Ball Super. Why have all the other character featured prominently on the intro and merchandising if they're not going to do jack shit?

 

[Kagari]

Vegeta turned SSJ instantly and finished Frost off inmediatly, great character develpment right there, he learned the lesson from RoF.

I'm ok with Goku getting back into the tourney, it was inevitable.
I'm glad that Magetta is not useless, he's making Vegeta sweat at least.

Vegeta vs Cabba is going to happen, I hope they become friends after the fight and Vegeta shows him how to become SSJ.

Also, what's up with the Piccolo moaning? he wasn't supposed to be in the tournament in the first place, he is useless, at least he had his moment and technicaly won.

Not true, Goku wanted him in first before Gohan spoke up and asked to go but then couldn't because of previous commitments.

Plus we've had the piece of marketing in the OP for a while now.

 

[Kuroyume]

The Piccolo bashing in this thread is

 

[Real Hero]

What's up with people wanting others to not suck besides the Saiyan bros? What's up with Dragon Ball Super. Why have all the other character featured prominently on the intro and merchandising if they're not going to do jack shit?

Super has like characters like Beerus, Whis, Bulma and Jaco and frost/hit to focus on after after the main duo of Goku and Vegeta. So far anyway, we are only a few episodes into new content really who knows where the focus will go after the tournement.

 

[MilkBeard]

I'll say Vegeta has embraced and overcome it. He's not going to wallow in self-pity, especially since he's a saiyan. He's going to think 'yah I made mistakes, but I have already stopped. What else do you want?' I don't even think he's going to lose any sleep over those stuffs at all.

He even straight up tell Cabba that they as Saiyans did some horrible things in the past, but they have stopped doing now. Its just that most of the time, there's no need to keep bringing up about this.

That's a good point I guess. I just feel that what made Vegeta interesting was his anti-hero nature, which is getting watered down in Super. I don't want to see him become 'just another good guy,' personally. If he and Goku remain best buds until the end of time from here on out, I will be disappointed.

We already have Goku, Trunks, Goten, Gohan, etc. etc. for that. Vegeta is Vegeta. I say, embrace your history, you old loaf. Or at least, the nature of Vegeta becoming a family man at the end of DBZ was incredibly ironic and funny. Now, the irony is gone and it's just kind of lame (in my opinion).

EDIT: As for Piccolo, I agree that he should have been given more time to shine. It would have been cool to see him fight it out and get beat, only for Vegeta to pop in and pulverize. But I guess, that's thinking with DBZ logic, while we are in Super, which has a completely different focus as a series. Either way, I think Piccolo put up a good fight and I would like to see him get stronger somehow (finding secret nameks in the other universe and absorbing them? yes please)

 

[CherryWoodFuton]

Part of the problem that Super has (and even GT had before) is that there are so many character arcs that are basically complete (Vegeta's for example) that the current writers don't know where to go with character development resulting in characters that just sit there and do nothing.

 

[Slaythe]

Part of the problem that Super has (and even GT had before) is that there are so many character arcs that are basically complete (Vegeta's for example) that the current writers don't know where to go with character development resulting in characters that just sit there and do nothing.

If anything Super has handled right since the beginning, it's Vegeta's writing.

I mean compared to Goku's treatment.

 

[Big One]

Part of the problem that Super has (and even GT had before) is that there are so many character arcs that are basically complete (Vegeta's for example) that the current writers don't know where to go with character development resulting in characters that just sit there and do nothing.

Well largely that has to be the reliance on using Goku and Vegeta as the focal points of everything.

Gohan has a potential character arc for example to showcase his struggles of being a dad, a teacher, and a martial artist all at once.

Then in the future, both Oob and Pan could easily be the stars of the show if they're going to overwrite what GT did.

 

[MilkBeard]

Well largely that has to be the reliance on using Goku and Vegeta as the focal points of everything.

Gohan has a potential character arc for example to showcase his struggles of being a dad, a teacher, and a martial artist all at once.

Then in the future, both Oob and Pan could easily be the stars of the show if they're going to overwrite what GT did.

There's a lot of potential for other characters, yes.

 

[Skii]

Just watched the new episode, good animation overall.

I really dislike Frost now. He has no personality at all. It's just Frieza 2.0. So disappointing. But I'm surprised he's still alive. Maybe his character will be redeemed later on in the show.

So glad Magetta isn't just a throw away character. There is some actual background to him and his techniques are fairly unique.

I really don't know what to make of Monaka. He has to be strong because he took a punch from Goku. But I don't feel like he was meditating. So interested to find out what his secret is. Same with Hit.

There is just so much ambiguity in Super at the moment and I love it.

Part of the problem that Super has (and even GT had before) is that there are so many character arcs that are basically complete (Vegeta's for example) that the current writers don't know where to go with character development resulting in characters that just sit there and do nothing.

Vegeta's arc isn't finished. It's just starting.

Goku might have a character arc as well considering how cocky he's become in battle.

Gohan has a new arc considering he's started training again.

Beerus and Whis are still revealing new things about their character as the show is progressing.

We now have a bunch of new characters from universe 6 that will surely be explored after the tournament.

There is plenty of character development there.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Guys the episode title had zenkai battle in it

 

[Ingeniero]

Vados is so mmmm iinteresting...
She must have a hidden agenda, maybes she is the big baddy this time.

Also Hitman Hit is badass.
We really don't need Piccolo, Gohan, etc to develop and become relevant again with all these new, interesting characters.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Vados is so mmmm iinteresting...
She must have a hidden agenda, maybes she is the big baddy this time.

Also Hitman Hit is badass.
We really don't need Piccolo, Gohan, etc to develop and become relevant again with all these new, interesting characters.

Wha?! Nonsense.

 

[Kagari]

We really don't need Piccolo, Gohan, etc to develop and become relevant again with all these new, interesting characters.

Away with you.

 

[Astral Dog]

Wait, so you guys are saying Vegeta is learning to spare his enemies and have more empathy while Goku learns to kill them before they get annoying? :O
Dat character development.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Ref looks too much like buu

 

[Welfare]

Gohan is a top 3 character and has started his arc to become great again, and Piccolo is Piccolo. He won't go away. Even in the Buu saga when everyone except the Saiyans had no relevance, Toriyama remembered Piccolo.

New characters along with Goku, Vegeta, Bulma, Gohan, Piccolo, Beerus, and Whis is what we should expect from Super. That has the potential to be a strong cast, I'd say.

 

[Skii]

We really don't need Piccolo, Gohan, etc to develop and become relevant again with all these new, interesting characters.

Or maybe, just stay with me here, we can have both?

 

[Russ T]

Or maybe, just stay with me here, we can have both?

?

i dont follow

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Gohan is a top 3 character and has started his arc to become great again, and Piccolo is Piccolo. He won't go away. Even in the Buu saga when everyone except the Saiyans had no relevance, Toriyama remembered Piccolo.

New characters along with Goku, Vegeta, Bulma, Gohan, Piccolo, Beerus, and Whis is what we should expect from Super. That has the potential to be a strong cast, I'd say.

If you have to create new characters and hand pick like 5 characters you already created to have a strong cast i find that disturbing.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Or maybe, just stay with me here, we can have both?

That might just be crazy enough to work.

 

[A Pretty Panda]

Beerus pretty clearly embarrassed he lost to Monaka. Maybe he brought him to catch someone off guard like he might have been

 

[Welfare]

If you have to create new characters and hand pick like 5 characters you already created to have a strong cast i find that disturbing.

Not all the current characters have relevance or are even important. This is a new series, get some new characters in here.

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Not all the current characters have relevance or are even important. This is a new series, get some new characters in here.

Thats the problem tho. Ne series or not its an continuation of a long running narrative, to have to push all these characters to the side and add new ones than hav those same old characters around but just standing there looking like filler is sad.

 

[Welfare]

Thats the problem tho. Ne series or not its an continuation of a long running narrative, to have to push all these characters to the side and add new ones than hav those same old characters around but just standing there looking like filler is sad.

Those characters were getting pushed to the side well before Z ended.

Oh and I guess I forgot Krillin in the Super cast. Can't forget him.

 

[Kagari]

Thats the problem tho. Ne series or not its an continuation of a long running narrative, to have to push all these characters to the side and add new ones than hav those same old characters around but just standing there looking like filler is sad.

It's okay sanji, I have Goten on my Dokkan Battle team \o/

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

It's okay sanji, I have Goten on my Dokkan Battle team o/

*cries tears at least u understand me Kagari!!

Funny enough goten wasn't on my mind this time was speaking in general piccolo,gohan goten trunks,krillin,tien theres easily stuff they can do. Hell piccolo did good against frost than thy immediately fucked him over again.

 

[Blader]

Beerus pretty clearly embarrassed he lost to Monaka. Maybe he brought him to catch someone off guard like he might have been

That's kind of what it seems like, but then why bring him along at all?

 

[Kagari]

*cries tears at least u understand me Kagari!!

Funny enough goten wasn't on my mind this time was speaking in general piccolo,gohan goten trunks,krillin,tien theres easily stuff they can do. Hell piccolo did good against frost than thy immediately fucked him over again.

Yeah... you know it's bad when casual DB fans (my co-workers) were mad about that (Piccolo's forfeit/tournament turning into the Goku/Vegeta only club...).