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Dragon Ball Super |OT2| June 12: Judgment Day

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Piccolo Jr. and the Saiyan Saga era was something special back to back. I'd say it went downhill for me when Cell first transformed. Up until that point in the saga, I really liked the creep factor of cell, the unpredictability of the androids knowing what the future could entail (even if they were in a van most the time), and general involved-ness of the non saiyans. (Even if they jobbed hard.)

I don't hate the Buu saga though.
 
A Pretty Panda said:
Where was that made clear? I don't remember any allusions to Gohan doing anything whatsoever the entire arc up until Cell appeared.
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The entire arc is set up on the premise of Gohan failing to save the earth. He dies at the hands of the androids because he's not strong enough, and that's what causes Trunks to go back in time to stop the future. They framed it around giving Goku some heart medicine, but by the end, if you look at the entire saga as a whole, it's the story of Gohan's redemption.

Incidentally, Future Trunks must have such a radically different opinion on Gohan than anyone else. Logically, he'd see Gohan as the greatest hero ever.
 
Daingurse said:
Yeah, if you can't buy the torch being passed, then I could see how a person can dislike the Cell Saga When I was watching the show as a kid, Gohan was the most relatable character. He started off as a normal little kid, who was straight up terrified of fighting alien freaks like the Saibamen and Nappa. Seeing him rise to his "full potential", which had been hinted at from the very beginning when he headbutted Raditz, was incredibly satisfying. I love SSJ2 Teen Gohan to death. The design is just too badass.

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Yeah, that's the primary reason why I liked him so much. He was the underdog and he'd lose so often... even in those few moments of rage it still never really was a get out of jail card because he wasn't actually beating the opponents. He's losing himself in all that emotion and at best he'd delay the inevitable, sometimes his rage didn't do shit against opponents as they proceed to shrug off his attacks.

It's because of being a burden and having to be saved for so long why its so satisfying when he went from loser to boss status. He trained his arse-off to the point where even Goku didn't want to continue. He realised his potential.

And at his biggest moment in the series... he begins beating down Cell and starts to get off-track. What's often regarded as the biggest mistake I thought added more to his character. Of course I'm referring to when he "toyed" with Cell. I think there's a huge difference between what Gohan did compared to say what Vegeta did. When Vegeta toyed with Cell it was just his usual shtick, Saiyan pride yada yada. Hurry up and transform. When Gohan toyed with Cell it wasn't because he wanted a challenge, it was because he wanted to make Cell suffer - he wanted to make his death painful. That's a pretty savage dynamic that we haven't really seen out of any of the Z-Warriors [not counting previously bad Z-Warriors for obvious reasons] - Gohan was gentle, so to see this borderline sadistic approach when he learned to control his explosive power was really unique for the series.

#16's speech in combination with indirectly causing Goku's death seemed like the catalyst for him to take up fighting, to train regularly and be the protector of the earth. The torch was literally passed. He became that hero type character at the end of the Cell Games.

...then Buu saga happened.
 
I did not mean to start shit lol. Never watched the original Japanese DBZ run. Saw the American version. I only experienced Kai, the DB manga, and Super in Japanese.

But even Z senshi makes no sense.
 
Krejlooc said:
They are called Z-Senshi in the original japanese version a few times.

Translator's Notes: Senshi means warrior
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At least they're not called "The Space Warriors", like in the French dub...

... Though surprisingly, you get used to it after a while, it even sounds decent.

Then again, the French dub called Piccolo "Petit Coeur" (literally "Small Heart"). Again, you get used to it, but eh. Kinda similar to "Big Green" from that old English dub, now that I think about it.

[EDIT] Even I got tired of the Faulconer vs. original debate, and I've been guilty of starting that shit on many occasions.
 
Kilrogg said:
At least they're not called "The Space Warriors", like in the French dub...

... Though surprisingly, you get used to it after a while, it even sounds decent.

Then again, the French dub called Piccolo "Petit Coeur" (literally "Small Heart"). Again, you get used to it, but eh. Kinda similar to "Big Green" from that old English dub, now that I think about it.

[EDIT] Even I got tired of the Faulconer vs. original debate, and I've been guilty of starting that shit on many occasions.
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Did they ever explained this one? Like I get what they were going for with that, but it's still weird
 
The cycle continues.... it feeds me.
Sutton Dagger said:
I'm in Japan atm and it would be pretty cool to watch an episode on TV. How would I go about doing that? Channel, time etc
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Sunday mornings at 9 am on Fuji TV.

dity said:
The cycle continues

rJQSwEz.jpg
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This image always confused me, of all of the shots from episode 5 to use they use an in-between frame of SSJ3 Goku. The SSJ3 Goku part of the episode actually looked pretty okay, why not use a picture of the SSJ1 or 2 part of the battle?
 
Do you think Hit could use the cube and his ability to travel through time ?

Maybe he needs the cube for whoever hired him. Maybe Towa.

Trunkspls.
 
I'm re-watching (for the billionth time probably) DBZ again and I'm on Buu Saga on Funimation stream right now actually. I agree with some earlier posts that it's just all over the place.

The parts I love:

Vegeto
Majin Vegeta
Gohan's power up
SSJ3 (I like the fighting, I absolutely hate the no eyebrows)
Buu's many forms
Gotenks
I'm a Sub JPN voice actor DBZ fan all the way since before Funi took over, but THIS SCENE is the most amazing line ever spoken in a dubbed anime

Parts I hated: (kind of echos some of the parts I enjoyed)

Piccolo during Gotenks vs Buu - some of this is amazing, some of this is just so dumb and really takes me out of the whole thing. It's not so much Gotenks himself because they're kids, acting the way he does makes sense. The problem is Piccolo. He really just drops his whole character up until this point and becomes this joke Ms. Doubtfire nanny who does things like volleyball serves etc because they couldn't write a better reasoning for him or something.

Mr. Satan comedic relief - I like the friendship between Satan and Buu. It added a lot to the arc and later (as I mentioned above) it had the only line from the dub that I just adore beyond all things, but there are some parts of it where it just throws you out of the moment. I think they sometimes injected too much comedy into an otherwise serious moment.

Gohan rises to fall hard - Gohan finally reaches his hidden potential. The sleeper has awakened and from the tip of the iceberg we saw during Cell to this point we can see it all. He even dons his father's gi and he puts a woopin' on Buu that's really easily one of the coolest moments of the series. He even has the cockiness of Vegeta when Buu laughs at him asking if he had come to fight and he responds "I intend to kill you." This is all garbage though because not 3 episodes later he's complete dog shit again and Goku has to literally come back from the dead to save the day. It's one of the biggest examples of a waste of a character in a long time. Teinshenhan was more useful at that point.
 
ArchedThunder said:
The cycle continues.... it feeds me.

Sunday mornings at 9 am on Fuji TV.


This image always confused me, of all of the shots from episode 5 to use they use an in-between frame of SSJ3 Goku. The SSJ3 Goku part of the episode actually looked pretty okay, why not use a picture of the SSJ1 or 2 part of the battle?
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Thanks mate
 
ShadyPenguin said:
Did they ever explained this one? Like I get what they were going for with that, but it's still weird
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I don't know. I can only see one explanation, but it doesn't make much sense (like many other things in anime dubbing in those days, mind you): I guess they thought "Piccolo" was a silly name because of the flute, and so they changed it to something that sorta sounded like it. Why they would do that since the lip animation isn't exactly Akira-level I have no idea.

I mean, replacing the "Daimaou" title with "Satan" makes sense, since Piccolo he's pretty much a devil sorcerer, and it doesn't even sound bad, but "Petit Coeur"? Beats me.
 
@ The Gohan and the "passing the torch" talk from the Cell Saga.

I'm another person who that didn't take for when it actually happened, so that's part of the reason I never got behind Gohan much as a character or wanted him to be the main hero. The reason it didn't take for me is because, quite frankly, Gohan stepping up to be the guy who defeats Cell is so forced and out of left field given how the entire Android/Cell saga went. The Android/Cell Saga is all about Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks for 95% of the time, from the moment Trunks shows up until Goku stops fighting Cell at the Cell Games, and Gohan is literally a background character who contributes nothing to the plot what so ever. So Gohan suddenly being the hero at the end felt extremely out of place for me and felt like the wrong way to end that storyline, which is why I think Vegeta should have been the one to end Cell.
 
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