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Dragon Ball Super |OT2| June 12: Judgment Day

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Skii said:
Man that opening always makes me feel so disappointed about how the Buu saga went down. Gohan was clearly built up to be the main character :(
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Anime people expected a lot more out of Gohan even from the beginning. One of the names for Z was going to be Gohan's Big Adventure or something

trash fire
 
Skii said:
Man that opening always makes me feel so disappointed about how the Buu saga went down. Gohan was clearly built up to be the main character :(
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Yeah... god damnit, I forgot how great that opening was. The Buu saga always makes me so upset.
 
Zalman said:
Everyone who hates the Buu saga (AKA the best saga) is my enemy
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My biggest problem is its lack of cohesion after the tournament stuff I guess. Well, actually it's mostly the terrible deus ex machina lead up to the end I didn't like and all the build up of passing the torch to Gohan/Goten/Trunks just thrown away like it was nothing.
 
A Pretty Panda said:
Anime people expected a lot more out of Gohan even from the beginning. One of the names for Z was going to be Gohan's Big Adventure or something

trash fire
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The anime was always pushing Gohan way more, I guess cause he was a kid? I remember him getting those awful musical numbers in the first few movies and stuff.

Kagari said:
My biggest problem is its lack of cohesion after the tournament stuff I guess. Well, actually it's mostly the terrible deus ex machina lead up to the end I didn't like and all the build up of passing the torch to Gohan/Goten/Trunks just thrown away like it was nothing.
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Yeah. Toriyama always writes by the seat of his pants, but I feel like the Buu arc is where that's most apparent. So much of the arc is just random twist after twist, lol
 
Kagari said:
My biggest problem is its lack of cohesion after the tournament stuff I guess. Well, actually it's mostly the terrible deus ex machina lead up to the end I didn't like and all the build up of passing the torch to Gohan/Goten/Trunks just thrown away like it was nothing.
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See, I kind of like that because I feel everyone had an important moment. Goten and Trunks when they were fusing, Piccolo when he was teaching them how to fuse, Gohan when he trained with the Z Sword. Later on it turns into a Goku/Vegeta show, but I liked that because it really highlighted how their relationship had evolved throughout the series.
 
Kagari said:
My biggest problem is its lack of cohesion after the tournament stuff I guess. Well, actually it's mostly the terrible deus ex machina lead up to the end I didn't like and all the build up of passing the torch to Gohan/Goten/Trunks just thrown away like it was nothing.
Click to expand...

It is just so contrived.

Toriyama just didn't have the balls to execute his original ideas and the saga just lost all focus and structure. It jumped through so many hoops to ensure Goku finished Buu.

"We could wish Gohan here and he'd kill Kid Buu with one arm tied behind his back (future Gohan style) but instead, we'll make this extremely complicated and do a Spirit Bomb!!!"
 
Unknown One said:
I always wondered about that fusion. How the hell would it work? Won't it be mostly Goku in terms of genetics?
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We might see it soon in that 3ds game. But, yes, it'd be basically Goku with a different hairstyle. Maybe fully outlines eyes all the time like Ultimate Gohan's.
 
Skii said:
Man that opening always makes me feel so disappointed about how the Buu saga went down. Gohan was clearly built up to be the main character :(
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Yeah, that's also a shame.

I also wonder why AT scrapped it. Gohan at his peak was not only topping Dragon Ball character polls but Shounen popularity polls.
 
Kagari said:
My biggest problem is its lack of cohesion after the tournament stuff I guess. Well, actually it's mostly the terrible deus ex machina lead up to the end I didn't like and all the build up of passing the torch to Gohan/Goten/Trunks just thrown away like it was nothing.
Click to expand...

my biggest problem is going from cell to someone who turns people into chocolate
 
Ultra Numb said:
Yeah, that's also a shame.

I also wonder why AT scrapped it. Gohan at his peak was not only topping Dragon Ball character polls but Shounen popularity polls.
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That recent interview with the 1st volume of the Super manga says that Toriyama decided against it in the beginning of the Buu Saga, due to Gohan's personality. He didn't have any plot in mind when he started those initial chapters, and, because Gohan's goal wasn't in fighting, he thought that he wasn't adequate as a protagonist when the fighting returned to be the focus.
 
Zalman said:
Everyone who hates the Buu saga (AKA the best saga) is my enemy
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Agreed. Early Buu saga till about Gotenks is some of the best DBZ has to offer. It's tied with the Android Saga for me

Loved Fat Buu as the main bad. So different and menacing. He really felt like a real threat compared to shitty Cell who hosts a Mortal Kombat Tournment. Buu just eats people
 
ArchedThunder said:
Beerus is the only one that has voiced any concern over the Earths being switched and that is only because of the food. Nobody in the show gives a fuck if Earth swaps universes.
Earth gets placed in a new universe, whoop-dee-doo, how does that effect their every day lives?
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I mean, what do we know about Universe 6 really? If its filled with intergalactic threats that could threaten Earth at a moment's notice that's kind of a big deal for everybody that lives on the planet, not just the Z warriors. They should be concerned about swapping universes but since its Dragon Ball shrug I guess?
 
angelic said:
my biggest problem is going from cell to someone who turns people into chocolate
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Cell was an interesting character. But I do think Buu was more interesting.

A demon that has existed since time immemorial who destroys for pure fun.
He has crazy magical properties unlike anyone else.

I'm not even sure what Cell was planning to do. Destroy other planets? It's been awhile since I've watched.
 
Crocodile said:
I mean, what do we know about Universe 6 really? If its filled with intergalactic threats that could threaten Earth at a moment's notice that's kind of a big deal for everybody that lives on the planet, not just the Z warriors. They should be concerned about swapping universes but since its Dragon Ball shrug I guess?
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Everything you would worry about universe 6 applies to 7.
 
Skii said:
It is just so contrived.

Toriyama just didn't have the balls to execute his original ideas and the saga just lost all focus and structure. It jumped through so many hoops to ensure Goku finished Buu.

"We could wish Gohan here and he'd kill Kid Buu with one arm tied behind his back (future Gohan style) but instead, we'll make this extremely complicated and do a Spirit Bomb!!!"
Click to expand...


DBZ is full of stuff like that. When Gohan punches 18 out of Cell and he delevels into his imperfect form and everyone stands there for five minutes shouting "Now is your chance!" - "Do it Gohan for fuck sake!!!!" (improv a little here)

Absolutely any of the other Saiyans and possibly Piccolo could have wrecked Cells shit at this point and they all just stand there.
 
NeonZ said:
That recent interview with the 1st volume of the Super manga says that Toriyama decided against it in the beginning of the Buu Saga, due to Gohan's personality. He didn't have any plot in mind when he started those initial chapters, and, because Gohan's goal wasn't in fighting, he thought that he wasn't adequate as a protagonist when the fighting returned to be the focus.
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You see at the end of Cell Saga I was under the impression that Gohan had changed and was ready to step up to the plate as protector of the planet, after that #16 speech he finally realised that he has to kill sometimes to protect.
 
Ultra Numb said:
You see at the end of Cell Saga I was under the impression that Gohan had changed and was ready to step up to the plate as protector of the planet, after that #16 speech he finally realised that he has to kill sometimes to protect.
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Yeah, at the end of Cell, Gohan has it beat into him that he needs to actually control his power in order to protect his loved ones, and because he didn't, an innocent android and Goku died (and Trunks, but was revived).

Yes, he wants to study "something", and gets that wish after Cell, but how do you neglect your training? If something were to happen, everyone will die because you grew weak (which would've happened in RoF). Shit, Gohan's character in Buu makes no sense because Videl goes to High School and fucking trains. How can Gohan not find the time?
 
I don't care, but this is the GOAT for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJcuDgVYjgI&nohtml5=False

Pankratous said:
DBZ is full of stuff like that. When Gohan punches 18 out of Cell and he delevels into his imperfect form and everyone stands there for five minutes shouting "Now is your chance!" - "Do it Gohan for fuck sake!!!!" (improv a little here)

Absolutely any of the other Saiyans and possibly Piccolo could have wrecked Cells shit at this point and they all just stand there.
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Well Gohan did finish him off at the end.
 
Welfare said:
Yeah, at the end of Cell, Gohan has it beat into him that he needs to actually control his power in order to protect his loved ones, and because he didn't, an innocent android and Goku died (and Trunks, but was revived).

Yes, he wants to study "something", and gets that wish after Cell, but how do you neglect your training? If something were to happen, everyone will die because you grew weak (which would've happened in RoF). Shit, Gohan's character in Buu makes no sense because Videl goes to High School and fucking trains. How can Gohan not find the time?
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Toriyama really needed stricter editors or something because yeah, that's a pretty big inconsistency right there. Even now in Super it's like he finally remembered Gohan came to that realization during the Cell games. Better late than never I suppose.
 
Kagari said:
Toriyama really needed stricter editors or something because yeah, that's a pretty big inconsistency right there. Even now in Super it's like he finally remembered Gohan came to that realization during the Cell games. Better late than never I suppose.
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I feel like now that Gohan is his own man and has his own family, he can concentrate on working on his training (following Goku's lead, but training for the sake of who he loves instead of just fighting). Videl will take care of the baby with Chi-Chi's help (she loves kids, and having a granddaughter will be a delight). Gohan "made it" in terms of getting a high paying job, and should be able to balance things easier now.

Having to explain the nuances of Dragon Ball Z life in terms of real life is weird
 
NeonZ said:
That recent interview with the 1st volume of the Super manga says that Toriyama decided against it in the beginning of the Buu Saga, due to Gohan's personality. He didn't have any plot in mind when he started those initial chapters, and, because Gohan's goal wasn't in fighting, he thought that he wasn't adequate as a protagonist when the fighting returned to be the focus.
Click to expand...

That is such a bald-faced lie by Toriyama. He most probably changed his mind once he started drawing the z-sword segments. There is no way he changed his mind that early and managed to botch up the story that badly.

Pankratous said:
DBZ is full of stuff like that. When Gohan punches 18 out of Cell and he delevels into his imperfect form and everyone stands there for five minutes shouting "Now is your chance!" - "Do it Gohan for fuck sake!!!!" (improv a little here)

Absolutely any of the other Saiyans and possibly Piccolo could have wrecked Cells shit at this point and they all just stand there.
Click to expand...

I'm talking about changing the outcome of an arc, not on whether other characters have opportunities to kill the main villain. Goku was always going to kill Frieza. Gohan was always going to kill Cell. Gohan was always going to kill Buu until Toriyama changed his mind effectively last second making a mess in the end.

Welfare said:
Yeah, at the end of Cell, Gohan has it beat into him that he needs to actually control his power in order to protect his loved ones, and because he didn't, an innocent android and Goku died (and Trunks, but was revived).

Yes, he wants to study "something", and gets that wish after Cell, but how do you neglect your training? If something were to happen, everyone will die because you grew weak (which would've happened in RoF). Shit, Gohan's character in Buu makes no sense because Videl goes to High School and fucking trains. How can Gohan not find the time?
Click to expand...

This is one of my bigger gripes. But I can kinda accept it if Gohan then fully realises the error of his ways after the Buu saga. But once again, he makes the exact same mistake of not training for a prolonged period. He makes the exact same mistake twice and the exact same character development is being made again in succession. It's really clumsy writing.
 
Skii said:
I'm talking about changing the outcome of an arc, not on whether other characters have opportunities to kill the main villain. Goku was always going to kill Frieza. Gohan was always going to kill Cell. Gohan was always going to kill Buu until Toriyama changed his mind effectively last second making a mess in the end.
Click to expand...

Well Cell didn't even exist until part way through the arc so he changed his mind there too
 
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