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Dragon Warrior 2 is the worst Dragon Quest game i've had the misfortune of playing

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
i seriously loved the first Dragon Warrior. i had two copies, one that was purchased and one from Nintendo Power. i loved going over the guides, reading about the monsters, weapons, and armor, checking out the cool freaking art. Look at this:

1DAd4.jpg

How bad ass is that? The Dragonlord looks absolutely wicked.

Anyways, when i first heard about Dragon Warrior 2 i not only knew the game would be mine but it was going to be so awesome! Little did i know that DW2 was going to be my first devastating gaming disappointment.

First off, let me sum up the good. First off, the box art is really sweet and a big step up from the first games box art.

And second, having a party is a great step forward for the series.

Also putting Hargon symbols on some of the enemies was a cool touch.

And thats it for the positives. Everything else about this game is a step back for the fledgling series. i credit DW2 for killing DW outside Japan. Whether or not its true doesnt really matter. It feels true.

Here is the list of the negatives.

1) The world size. Now there are other issues that might be more important but this is a personal matter. i remember reading about how the world of DW2 was four(!) times the size of DW1. Holy hell that is gigantic! When i got a look at that map that came with the strategy guide, sure enough, Alefgard is there and its positively minute.

Imagine my sinking heart when my young self found out that Alefgard is not only on a much smaller scale than what was in the first game but almost all of the landmarks are gone. Towns and dungeons alike.. almost all are gone. The land is basically barren except for Tantegel and Charlock.

Now i guess the game is technically four times the size of DW1 but that includes the vast and empty ocean. i had a major case of frowny face when i discovered the truth.

2) The party. How this is implemented in DW2 is just not fun. Your main character is at such a level advantage once you assemble them all it essentially means you have to "re-grind" where you were just grinding. The Prince and Princess also have basically fuck all to equip for weapons and armor so there are very few upgrades and the upgrades that are there place them many magnitudes lower than you in terms of power. They are going to die. A lot. And leveling them doesnt give a noticeable power increase.

3) The god damned grinding and speed. i was going to put these as two separate categories but they kind of go together. Battles are slow. Leveling is slow. Moving is slow. The game in one word: glacial. In the first game, battles didnt exactly move at a break neck pace but they at least went along at a decent clip. In DW2, however, you have a party and you are fighting multiple monsters instead of the 1v1 of DW1. If a targeted monster dies before another party member hits it you get a result similar to Final Fantasy where the attack is "Ineffective."

So you have a super slo-mo battle system. How do you make it shine? Require tons of grinding, of course. This is the reason people dont replay this game. Got all your Crests taken care of? Ready to go to Hargon an take him out? Not so fast. If you want to actually make it to him you are going to have to grind for hours upon hours. Dozens of hours in a game that makes minutes feel like eternity. Think about it.

4) The graphics. Now im no graphics whore. And i also dont care that the game looks very much the same as DW1. The problem comes in with the combat (again). In the first game this is what a battle screen looked like:

Its both vibrant and interesting. Compare that to the battle screen in DW2:

No background. No nothing. Just emptiness. DW1 did this for some battles but in DW2 its every damn fight. Lack of something just makes things dull. Reminds me of Wizardry. Which would be fine if i wasnt spoiled already, i guess.


i could probably rant on and on about this game but ill just stop here. i see reviews or hear people talk about it fondly and i almost do a double-take because i dont remember things like that at all. ive been replaying it lately determined to beat it as an adult and put this horror behind me forever, once and for all, but even as a kid this game was a nightmare. Am i alone in thinking DW2 completely sucks?
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
I love DQ a whole lot.

Loving 2 is like loving a little brother who steals your stuff and sells it for heroin money. You still love him because he is family, but sometimes you really don't like him.
 

Psxphile

Member
There are some points I can agree with: having to stop your progress in the game in order to level your new party members, and everything during and after the Cave of Rhone where you're never really prepared for the kind of shit the game starts throwing at you. But that's old-school jRPGs for you.

Of course, I never got to play the NES version. I was fortunate enough to play the GBC version, which I think was a bit more forgiving. Still, those two sticking points weren't fun.

Oh, and I definitely felt cheated by what they did to DW1's Alefgard. And the all black background during battles did suck, but I kinda figure they had to do that in order to increase the number of enemies you can fight at any one time (and more than one type). For the record, the GBC version's battles took place on an all white background. Not much of an improvement there.
 
OMG I WANNA RANT ABOUT A GAME THAT IS CLOSE TO 25-30 YEARS OLD!

Pffft, play dragon quest 1 nes. Have fun.


Play dragon quest 2-3. Have fun.
 

urfe

Member
Perhaps only due to nostalgia, but I loved it.

I used to LOVE leveling up a new character. One, they level up fairly fast (quick reward) and two it was really exciting to see what spells they were going to get. I think I was 7 when I first played it, and remember being very excited when I looked up the word "mutt" in the dictionary to figure out how to get the princess.

I would have preferred that the original map be the same size as it was, but if the only way to make the world map bigger at the time was to downscale it, I think it's fair. After playing one, and then with two realizing that: you get a ship (!!!), and that your in the same world as the first one in a far off land was a pretty magical feeling.

The black backgrounds were a fair tradeoff for me for multiple party members and multiple enemies. I loved the amount of variation in enemy groupings. In many games today, there's about only two or three patterns per area, but in the old Dragon Quest games (II-IV) there was way way more. The Dragon Quest games in general really have well thought out enemy formations/placement/etc. I doubt any RPG these days gives it a second thought.

I LOVE attacks missing if the enemy died. It's part of the strategy. Who are you attacking with who, when will they die, etc. With Final Fantasy II (IV), that ended, and "holding down A" became the norm for a while.

The main criticism I agree with is its difficulty in the last area. It was amazingly difficult, and many times seemed a matter of luck on what moves the enemies used, and who on (this is for quite a few old RPGs, but especially DW2).


I'm waiting for a legit way to play the original NES version portably. I had the GBC version and while I enjoyed it, I ultimately didn't like how they changed the style.
 
i seriously loved the first Dragon Warrior. i had two copies, one that was purchased and one from Nintendo Power. i loved going over the guides, reading about the monsters, weapons, and armor, checking out the cool freaking art. Look at this:



How bad ass is that? The Dragonlord looks absolutely wicked.


Holy shit, I remember that. I had that also. Fucking badass little booklet.

As for the game, I only played it once on the GB when Enix released that triple pack featuring 1-3. That was years ago that I played it, and can't really remember much about it. I only remember that 1 remained my favorite.
 

Lizard with a ladder

learnin' with the blacks!
I used to LOVE leveling up a new character. One, they level up fairly fast (quick reward) and two it was really exciting to see what spells they were going to get. I think I was 7 when I first played it, and remember being very excited when I looked up the word "mutt" in the dictionary to figure out how to get the princess.

Hell yeah! Maybe it's because we had so much time back then when we were kids. Leveling up a new character, seeing them get more skills and grow in power. It was awesome! The word grinding didn't exist to me back then. It was just part of the game.
 
i seriously loved the first Dragon Warrior. i had two copies, one that was purchased and one from Nintendo Power. i loved going over the guides, reading about the monsters, weapons, and armor, checking out the cool freaking art. Look at this:



How bad ass is that? The Dragonlord looks absolutely wicked.

That's pretty cool, looks like something out of a fighting fantasy book.
 

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
I dunno, I really enjoyed my play-through of the SNES version years back. Maybe it's significantly better than the NES version?
 
No background. No nothing. Just emptiness. DW1 did this for some battles but in DW2 its every damn fight. Lack of something just makes things dull. Reminds me of Wizardry. Which would be fine if i wasnt spoiled already, i guess.

I might be wrong in some details, but DW1 was a remake of DQ1, and I think DW2 stayed pretty much identical to DQ2, besides the intro (there was no intro in the jp game).
 

thetrin

Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I might be wrong in some details, but DW1 was a remake of DQ1, and I think DW2 stayed pretty much identical to DQ2, besides the intro (there was no intro in the jp game).

I wouldn't call it a remake, but there are additions to the game. Like, for instance, the fact that the hero actually TURNS when he walks, instead of just facing the screen no matter what direction he's movin.
 

gwarm01

Member
Yeah, the black backgrounds were actually a part of DQ1. They improved that game quite a bit when they brought it over to the states. I guess since it didn't do that well they decided not to waste the resources doing the same thing to DQ2.

I liked the game, but the last section is truly brutal. It was so hard that I abandoned my quest to play every DQ game. I knew I wasn't up to the challenge of 7 either, so I'm happy with DQ1&2, 4&5 DS, then 8. Maybe someday I will fill in the gaps.
 
I wouldn't call it a remake, but there are additions to the game. Like, for instance, the fact that the hero actually TURNS when he walks, instead of just facing the screen no matter what direction he's movin.

Fine, remake might've been too strong. But I think they changed all the sprites and added the save function, at least. And added battle backgrounds, I guess.
 
DW2 made me hate boats in RPGs, or at least in DW games,. You get this boat and suddenly you're wandering around this massive place aimlessly, all while getting into stupid encounters. That drove me nuts.

I've revisited all DW games over the past few years except for 2. Not sure if I'm ready to relive my childhood struggles just yet.
 
II was good. I played it after playing IV, so while it was a huge step back, I still enjoyed it as a child. End game was pretty brutal though.

Yeah, the black backgrounds were actually a part of DQ1. They improved that game quite a bit when they brought it over to the states. I guess since it didn't do that well they decided not to waste the resources doing the same thing to DQ2.

That makes a lot of sense. I played IV first as a child, then II, then I. I was always confused why the first one had battle backgroungs.
 
Someone is complaining about DW2 and isn't complaining about Cave of Rhone -> End game and lack of directions to find anything? Those are the real reasons to complain about DW2. Also I still rage about the fact that some of the later enemies (Cave of Rhone and onwards) can cast the spell sacrifice, which in DW2 kills the caster and the entire enemy party aka instant wipe out. Nothing is more rage enduing then "SURPRISE ATTACK, ENEMY CAST SACRIFICE, PARTY WAS WIPED OUT!"
 

Jucksalbe

Banned
I loved DQ2 (SFC version) and I think some of your complaints are fixed in that version, so maybe try that one?
Worst DQ is easily 9, so there's obviously something wrong with your title (or you haven't played it).
 
Maybe its because I did play the nes original but I absokutely loved it, though exiting that cave at the end was a dick move on the devs part.
 

gblues

Banned
All of the complaints leveled against the NES version are 100% valid. The party members were woefully imbalanced, leveling up took forever, and dying in the last fight sent you to the wrong side of a nasty dungeon.

The SNES remake, and the GBC release (DW1+2), are vastly improved experiences.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Yeah, the black backgrounds were actually a part of DQ1. They improved that game quite a bit when they brought it over to the states. I guess since it didn't do that well they decided not to waste the resources doing the same thing to DQ2.
Oh really? i didnt know that. i knew of some of the changes but not the battle backgrounds. Honestly it wouldnt be an issue if fights were interesting or brisk.

Someone is complaining about DW2 and isn't complaining about Cave of Rhone -> End game and lack of directions to find anything? Those are the real reasons to complain about DW2. Also I still rage about the fact that some of the later enemies (Cave of Rhone and onwards) can cast the spell sacrifice, which in DW2 kills the caster and the entire enemy party aka instant wipe out. Nothing is more rage enduing then "SURPRISE ATTACK, ENEMY CAST SACRIFICE, PARTY WAS WIPED OUT!"
i know everything Rhone is a complete bitch but i didnt mention it because ive yet to get there this playthrough. i havent been down that road in over 20 years. Cant wait lol

I loved DQ2 (SFC version) and I think some of your complaints are fixed in that version, so maybe try that one?
Worst DQ is easily 9, so there's obviously something wrong with your title (or you haven't played it).
i havent played 9 yet but im kind of surprised to hear that. It seems to be generally well-received. i need to get a DS again so i can try it out before the online stuff goes bye-bye.
 

gblues

Banned
i havent played 9 yet but im kind of surprised to hear that. It seems to be generally well-received. i need to get a DS again so i can try it out before the online stuff goes bye-bye.

"Worst Dragon Quest" is a bit like "Least favorite kind of chocolate." Even at its worst, it's still great. :)

besides, DQX will undoubtedly take that crown away from IX when it comes out.
 

Prophane33

Member
As someone who owns every DQ game (in Japanese too, mother f'ers!): I agree with you. DQ II is the worst in the series. DQ V and III are the best. However, II is bad for all the reasons you listed and more. However, as someone else replied. Worst Dragon Quest is like least favorite chocolate (or to use an analogy more appropriate to myself, bad pizza, because even if pizza is bad, it's still pizza!). I'd play DQ II all day if given the choice between that and Final Fantasy II or I...or any of them bar V, VIII, and XII.
 
I like this game a lot more than the first for having an actual party and little story quests to obtain the other members, the others were unique and I really valued them for the spells they got. Plus equipping the prince with, what was it, the Falcon Sword? Two attacks per turn? Awesome.

No, the only thing I didn't like about this game was the crests. I got stuck there as a kid and it really sours you on the experience when you play through a long, grindy RPG and have been everywhere in the world and can't find all the things you need to collect to get to the last boss. Two of them you actually had to search on the ground for, one of which I don't think there was even a hint for, which SUCKS, and another one was in Rhone which also sucked.

EDIT: Yeah, I see that you have to have the Eye of Malroth and use it randomly on the world map just to open the cave to Rhone, so that was probably where I got stuck.
 

Jucksalbe

Banned
"Worst Dragon Quest" is a bit like "Least favorite kind of chocolate." Even at its worst, it's still great. :)

besides, DQX will undoubtedly take that crown away from IX when it comes out.
I agree. I still liked IX, but it's not the direction I wanted the series to take. And now with what they did with X, I practically don't care for new games in the series anymore.
 

Aeana

Member
Yeah, the black backgrounds were actually a part of DQ1. They improved that game quite a bit when they brought it over to the states. I guess since it didn't do that well they decided not to waste the resources doing the same thing to DQ2.

I liked the game, but the last section is truly brutal. It was so hard that I abandoned my quest to play every DQ game. I knew I wasn't up to the challenge of 7 either, so I'm happy with DQ1&2, 4&5 DS, then 8. Maybe someday I will fill in the gaps.
I'm not sure where you got that idea from, but the original DQ1 doesn't have black backgrounds.

Anyway, water_wendi, I'm surprised you haven't tried a remake, since they really improve the game dramatically. DQ2 was my very first DQ and I loved it way back then - and that was with the Japanese version that lacked lots of the improvements added to the English version. Lots of your complaints are plenty fair, of course, but they did make the remakes for a reason.
 

Ultratech

Member
Someone is complaining about DW2 and isn't complaining about Cave of Rhone -> End game and lack of directions to find anything? Those are the real reasons to complain about DW2. Also I still rage about the fact that some of the later enemies (Cave of Rhone and onwards) can cast the spell sacrifice, which in DW2 kills the caster and the entire enemy party aka instant wipe out. Nothing is more rage enduing then "SURPRISE ATTACK, ENEMY CAST SACRIFICE, PARTY WAS WIPED OUT!"

Oh god...this. :(

Yeah, II is one of the DQs I've yet to finish because it is considerably hard. The Cave to Rhone is a goddamn nightmare since you can easily run into stuff that will just ruin your day quickly regardless of how strong you are.

The remakes do make the game a bit easier and go faster though.
 
Like the FF series, DQ also suffered through its terrible twos.

I played the remake version a few years ago, which does fix many of the problems of the original, but the Cave of Rhone and afterwards is still a sticking point. I did okay in the cave itself, but afterwards was pure hell. All of a sudden my party is wiping to multiple Archdemons casting Explodet/Kaboom. I had to grind forever just to be able to survive.
 

Aeana

Member
Like the FF series, DQ also suffered through its terrible twos.

I played the remake version a few years ago, which does fix many of the problems of the original, but the Cave of Rhone and afterwards is still a sticking point. I did okay in the cave itself, but afterwards was pure hell. All of a sudden my party is wiping to multiple Archdemons casting Explodet/Kaboom. I had to grind forever just to be able to survive.
I personally feel like the last bit really isn't too bad as long as you have the lightning staff and use it in every battle. I think a lot of people actually don't even know that you can use certain equipment in battle for special effects. Using heal shields to heal for free is also a great boon.
 
I loved DQ2 (SFC version) and I think some of your complaints are fixed in that version, so maybe try that one?
Worst DQ is easily 9, so there's obviously something wrong with your title (or you haven't played it).

DQ9 was awesome for what it was - a contemporization of the DQ3 style class scheme that added embellishments from subsequent games, namely 8's skill point system, all the while squelching any spell class crossover in order to keep party members from becoming homogenized. Ditto the DQVC and grottos, features I hope return. I just hope casinos and pachisi tracks return.

The real persisting problem with 2 is that your two secondary characters lack the magic power/variety to balance out their squishiness.
 

Jucksalbe

Banned
DQ9 was awesome for what it was - a contemporization of the DQ3 style class scheme that added embellishments from subsequent games, namely 8's skill point system, all the while squelching any spell class crossover in order to keep party members from becoming homogenized. Ditto the DQVC and grottos, features I hope return. I just hope casinos and pachisi tracks return.
I'm ashamed to admit that I still haven't played DQ3. If only I'd get the fan translation to work with the DQ collection on Wii. Works with 1&2, but not with 3. Oh well.
 
I'm ashamed to admit that I still haven't played DQ3. If only I'd get the fan translation to work with the DQ collection on Wii. Works with 1&2, but not with 3. Oh well.

Played the GBC version. Was quite solid, if not as pleasing to the ears and eyes as the former remake.

They need to port the mobile remakes of 1-3 to the major smartphone platforms.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
Anyway, water_wendi, I'm surprised you haven't tried a remake, since they really improve the game dramatically. DQ2 was my very first DQ and I loved it way back then - and that was with the Japanese version that lacked lots of the improvements added to the English version. Lots of your complaints are plenty fair, of course, but they did make the remakes for a reason.
im kind of anxious to get and play the remake for GBC. At least i have some satisfaction of knowing that it cant get any worse. How often in life can you get to say that?
 

Aeana

Member
im kind of anxious to get and play the remake for GBC. At least i have some satisfaction of knowing that it cant get any worse. How often in life can you get to say that?
The GBC version has all of the improvements of the SNES version except the battle backgrounds. But the experience/gold increases and the balance increases and all of that stuff is in there.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
The GBC version has all of the improvements of the SNES version except the battle backgrounds. But the experience/gold increases and the balance increases and all of that stuff is in there.
The battle backgrounds arent really a major point.. its basically a nitpick. If the combat is interesting and not tedious in the remake im more than fine with that.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Anyone know of any flash games that sort of play like the original Quest/Warrior? In regards to being 2D and grinding in a certain to get gear and moving on, exploration etc. I remember seeing a good amount of these in the early 2000s.
 
As someone who played both DW1&2 when they come out on the NES, I have a hard time seeing how you could think DW2 was inferior to DW1.

DW1 has a tiny world, is filled with 1 vs 1 grinding, and features the most generic plot of all time (there's some evil guy! go kill him!). DW2 has a drastically bigger world, actual parties for both the player and the enemies, and a marginally less generic plot (how you get the third character on your team is kind of neat).

I'd argue that neither DW1 & DW2 are particularly playable today, but they're some of the earliest console RPGs out there so let's cut them some slack. Dragon Warrior 3 & 4 on the NES, on the other hand, are still great games even today.
 

Aeana

Member
Did you have to write the entire passwords down with every save? That's a lot of characters.
Well, the passwords weren't always 52 characters. The early game passwords were shorter, but they got longer as you did more stuff since there was more stuff to remember. But yeah, I used to write them down, I've got tons of index cards with passwords on them. Too bad we didn't have any sort of instant camera; that would have been way better.

Code:
なごや えべつ いしがき
おかや つばめ さつぽろ
いわき ひめじ あおもり
からつ にいみ さいたま
おおた ふくい まつざか とば

There's an example password from very late in the game.
 

water_wendi

Water is not wet!
As someone who played both DW1&2 when they come out on the NES, I have a hard time seeing how you could think DW2 was inferior to DW1.

DW1 has a tiny world, is filled with 1 vs 1 grinding, and features the most generic plot of all time (there's some evil guy! go kill him!). DW2 has a drastically bigger world, actual parties for both the player and the enemies, and a marginally less generic plot (how you get the third character on your team is kind of neat).

I'd argue that neither DW1 & DW2 are particularly playable today, but they're some of the earliest console RPGs out there so let's cut them some slack. Dragon Warrior 3 & 4 on the NES, on the other hand, are still great games even today.
i wasnt so hostile towards the game when i was a kid. i felt more disappointed at the time than frustrated (probably because i had free time to spend a hundred hours grinding). i replayed DW1 after DW2 and even then i could recognize the stronger gameplay. i guess thats what i intended to get across with my second good point about the game. DW2 did a lot of stuff to push things forward for the series.. bigger and better but only technically.
 
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