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Dreams NDA Lifted
- Thread starter GribbleGrunger
- Start date
The more I see about Dreams, the less I'm understanding its purpose as a game release. Why isn't this just a game engine / part of the Playstation Store? Feels like all these games should just be displayed in a Dreams section of the Playstation Store, with demos and a few dollar price tag. Give out the creation tools for free and monetize the creation (split with the creator, obviously).
What's going to happen when there's a game created in Dreams that's so good that it would be worth 5-10 bucks, and a ton of people would pay 5-10 bucks, but wouldn't pay 60 just to gain access to that one game?
The gating off of so much content with one full game purchase is just a bizarre model. This seriously looks good enough to make a full game with, but they'll never be sold, they'll never be advertised in the Playstation Store. I'm really curious what happens when a single game (or a few) hits viral status. Just feels like a ton of money left on the table.
Charging people to allow them to create content for your game also feels extremely wrong. Are these tools good enough to make games worth paying for? They seem to be proving that they are. Not allowing creators to monetize creations... This entire project feels like a ton of wasted opportunity.
Is this really just one self-contained game? Feels like it should be an entire section of the Playstation Store.
What's going to happen when there's a game created in Dreams that's so good that it would be worth 5-10 bucks, and a ton of people would pay 5-10 bucks, but wouldn't pay 60 just to gain access to that one game?
The gating off of so much content with one full game purchase is just a bizarre model. This seriously looks good enough to make a full game with, but they'll never be sold, they'll never be advertised in the Playstation Store. I'm really curious what happens when a single game (or a few) hits viral status. Just feels like a ton of money left on the table.
Charging people to allow them to create content for your game also feels extremely wrong. Are these tools good enough to make games worth paying for? They seem to be proving that they are. Not allowing creators to monetize creations... This entire project feels like a ton of wasted opportunity.
Is this really just one self-contained game? Feels like it should be an entire section of the Playstation Store.
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Creators have to pay for tools that's how it is in most art forms but in this cause you get tools with a game.
Dreams would actually be cheap at $59 for just the tools because you could be paying over $500 for animation , art , music creation programs
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Shifty
Member
Given that he tweeted this out, I'm confident that this is the case:
I read the whole thing and entirely regret it. The argumentation is so bad that I might even make a thread to take the piss out of it.
That's a fair argument given that Dreams covers all the bases between graphics, sound, logic, and asset creation. Maya is an extreme example though- they offer a lite / 'LT' version that does (mostly) the same stuff for about 16% of the price.Creators have to pay for tools that's how it is in most art forms but in this cause you get tools with a game.
Dreams would actually be cheap at $59 for just the tools because you could be paying over $500 for animation , art , music creation programs
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GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Dreams is basically LBP but without the sackboy mascot.
These kinds of games look cool in previews (when the devs make cool demos), but in reality when you go to YT and check out gamer uploads, the majority of them are a few demo levels someone made that can be beat in 60 seconds.
Cool in principle, but not great in execution. My nieces have a PS3 and they have LBP 3. I watched them messing around and trying to build some stuff. Pain in the butt and they gave up.
These are games that are solid if the devs churn out 100 demos or you find some hardcore gamers who will spend months making truly good creations..... like 1% of the community uploads.
These kinds of games look cool in previews (when the devs make cool demos), but in reality when you go to YT and check out gamer uploads, the majority of them are a few demo levels someone made that can be beat in 60 seconds.
Cool in principle, but not great in execution. My nieces have a PS3 and they have LBP 3. I watched them messing around and trying to build some stuff. Pain in the butt and they gave up.
These are games that are solid if the devs churn out 100 demos or you find some hardcore gamers who will spend months making truly good creations..... like 1% of the community uploads.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
So what's the experience with dualshock vs move? Does the move feel better?
You're still paying $30 a month vs $59 to own but hopefully Sony don't get any ideas & try to make this a GAS for $9 a month
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
You have no idea how ignorant you sound right now.
Cunth
Fingerlickin' Good!
This is true. Nobody would spend the amount of time required to produce a proper game in this. This is for fiddling around.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Basically MOVE is better for sculpting and the Dualshock is better for design. Either can be successfully used to do the same jobs though.
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GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
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Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I agree that Dreams puts itself in an awkward position due to how good of a game design tool it seems to be. Sure it would be great to make it free and let creators release games on the PS store and have it be like a 50-50 profit split or something, but it won't happen. It would be a huge nightmare logistically and legally and Sony won't want to do that.
So it will be what it is, a way to create games and play others creations on a pure hobby level and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm excited to jump in myself. I'm sure it will inspire many to go on to make commercial games too, and that is a great thing. That said, I can't help but wonder how awesome it would be if they did release this as a multiplatform development tool.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Exactly.
Notice how the devs (with their awesome demos) never show gamers how to make equally great looking and playing demos?
If it's so easy, shouldn't be hard to do.
Not hard to make levels in Trials or Super Mario Maker. Watch some vids and it's not hard. LBP style of games, good luck making anything remotely close to MM previews.
iconmaster
Banned
I don’t know what’s real anymore
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
LOL. I can't wait for Dreams to release. The community is crapping all over anything MM have made. God, the ignorance is unreal. Perhaps ... er ... scroll back through the thread and take a look at some of the stuff I've posted?
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Nobody has ever crapped over MM games. LBP games get great scores. No need to play the victim-pity game here Gribble.
Cunth
Fingerlickin' Good!
Damn you are salty as. It’s just one guys opinion bro
One letter too many ...
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
'Victim-pity'? What on earth are some of you on? You're being completely ignorant, clearly know nothing about Dreams, have no idea what the community are making, and for some odd reason think that people are 'ordinary' and MM are 'Gods'.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Why would I be salty? This is weird.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Relax man. Ok fine...... I think Dreams will be best game ever. Happy?
As for that pic you posted of that dark corridor.... ya can't wait to see how great and long the gameplay is. Please keep us updated how the demo is going for that pic. Looks no different than a typical AAA action game and players have to go down a dark corridor. Can't wait to see the comparison.
And if you can, please tell us all how long it took to create it.
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GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Other people do see the point in it. Clearly it's not for you as you've pointed out many times.
Shifty
Member
Honestly, if you're not going to break down the crap arguments from people shitposting it up and expose them for what they are, then you might as well just ignore the trolls and let them leave when they don't get the response they're looking for.
It comes off as bickering if you're just chucking retorts back and forth.
Cunth
excluded, we all know he means well.Edit:
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GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Yeah, it's just a 'pic' right.
Pretty much this. The only level I even vividly remember from Little Big Planet was the old Contra recreation.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
I'll post some more stuff tomorrow.
Vawn
Banned
I'm not concerned about it being for me. I'm confused WHO it is for. In what reality do you envision Sony making their money back on this?
It's a neat thing from a creativity standpoint. From a business perspective, it seems really stupid honestly.
I'm a huge PlayStation guy and I'd love to be wrong. But, I don't see any reality where this is financially successful.
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GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Sony will make their money back on it in the same way they make their money back on other games. They will 'sell' Dreams.
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Vawn
Banned
To who? Even you have to notice the confusion and lack of excitement for this "game". The fact every thread about it here consists of 80% of the comments coming from yourself.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
To me, MM games are one of those feel good studios. Most gamers won't even bother playing Dreams or sinking a lot of time making good levels.
MM gives Sony a studio that is totally different than any other, so when they promote them at E3 or whatever game show, it sticks out. Even when they first showed it (PS4 reveal), they had a bunch of people coming on stage banging bongo drums.
Sony will keep MM around for years despite their last keys games were LBP 2 and 3 which were 5+ years ago. Yet some reason axe Evo Studios which had all their racing games coming out every years selling millions each...... I guess racing studios don't give the same gamer vibe as a create-your-game piece of softeware.
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Vawn
Banned
I hope so. But Dreams has likely been super expensive and won't make half that money back.
If I had to bet money, I'd guess Sony will shut down MM sometime within the next five years.
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GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
To people who want to create and people who want to play thousands of free levels. As far as awareness is concerned, people are waking up.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I don't think Sony cares. MM is one of those studios that will be given a 10 year leash. PD with GT gets the same treatment.
Yet some reason, some studios like Evo, ND, Santa Monica, it seems their games have to come out at certain deadlines in periodical release dates.
What make you think Dreams was super expensive? it just took a lot of time & research it's not like they had to rent big teams to develop content.
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I agree it will be a tough road sales wise, but it has potential to break out. In much the same way Minecraft gave people endless way to create and share, if Dreams can catch even a tiny spark of that magic it could be quite successful.
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Lionel Richie
Member
Way to answer your own question lol.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
They're not paying AAA sized teams/budgets. This is done with a small group in comparison.
hymanator
Member
I see Dreams as a gateway to inspire people to create. Everyone has to start somewhere, and using professional tools can be too intimidating. There were several creators from the LittleBigPlanet community that moved on to much bigger and better careers because of what they made in LBP. Dreams could have an even bigger impact on creators wanting to make cool stuff to show off. Even though people won't be able to sell their creations, they can still greatly benefit from the popularity if they strike while the iron is hot.
This game obviously won't be for everyone. If your only goal is to make a game and make money as quickly as possible, then you are better off learning Unity or Unreal etc. If you just want to quickly prototype a game or want to make an attempt at creating anything at all, this isn't a bad place to start.
This game obviously won't be for everyone. If your only goal is to make a game and make money as quickly as possible, then you are better off learning Unity or Unreal etc. If you just want to quickly prototype a game or want to make an attempt at creating anything at all, this isn't a bad place to start.
They continued other people's research , some people did that research for free or little profit & shared it before MM even started this game.
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
A quick runthrough:
bitbydeath
Member
I get the concern for people not making entire games but don’t forget that multiplayer is on the way. Meaning anyone can recreate say something similar to Golden Eye or TimeSplitters which would be easy to make in a game like this as all you need are single levels to play.
That said I could also see it taking off with the Let’s Play crowd due to the large variety.
Oh and someone’s trying to recreate PlayStation Home. I think the MP is said to be 4-8 players only though so I don’t think it’ll work very well.
Right now my kids are playing it a lot more than me.
So people still playing the "I don't get it" game? lol
It's like Roblox & Minecraft people love the fact that it has user created content
The foolishness that it generates is social media gold
https://mashable.com/video/alex-balfanz-roblox-jailbreak/#qBdyL4RA
It's like Roblox & Minecraft people love the fact that it has user created content
The foolishness that it generates is social media gold
https://mashable.com/video/alex-balfanz-roblox-jailbreak/#qBdyL4RA
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Angry_Megalodon
Member
Yeah, and right away , sir. Why others bother with a 200-people team and development for 3-plus years? Very reasonable, yes.
What is being showing is the most revolutionary APP Sony has ever created. And it has to be dealt with not as a game but as a creation app, for videogames, music, cinema, etc. Sony may become huge if they manage properly this software and promote a creators program with further monetization and even job opportunities within their studios. We are talking about recruiting talents in narrative, music creation, graphics or animations.
Sony's management are not being too smart in marketing this one otherwise I would not read comments like this.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
Kagey K
Banned
I’m not sure about you, but I play games to have fun.
Sorry if that somehow takes a backseat here.
I play to escape,I play to have fun, I play to win. Those are all things that make a game.
I don’t play so I can run at one side of a wall people custom textured.
Maybe it’s our definition of game, that doesn’t seem to coincide.