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DS Software outsells PS2 software in Japan for 2005
- Thread starter Dalthien
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A Link to the Past
Banned
Bebpo said:
BT brought many gamers to the DS. Without the Brain Trainers, DS software likely would not have sold as much. BT is marketted towards people who will either buy DoS after buying a DS for BT (ie, not gamers). I would think that bad games selling millions of copies damages the potential of smaller games.
Forgotten Ancient
Banned
Bebpo said:
With rising development costs, the worst thing that profits from non-games can do is fund other "niche" projects.
Castlevania, Psychonauts, BGE, etc. didn't sell well before "non-games", the advent of BTs, Ndogs, etc. won't change that. I'd actually be almost inclined to believe non-gamers will appreciate niche titles almost as much as casuals. If not, at least they're still throwing dollars in the gaming pot that weren't there before.
I think the "hell" that the industry is supposedly being drawn into is caused by something much worse than these low budget, generally entertaining games. Increasing prices, diminishing returns, lack of creativity, poor marketing, and the juvenile image of gaming is where the fingers should be pointed at first.
ironichaos
Member
Don't be so naive.
If companies can make simpler games for cheap, guess what, it assures they don't go out of business putting ALL their assets on the line for an Advent Rising. Companies need to diversify. Have inflows of cash from multiple types of games. It's that simple. A market that accepts both small, medium and high tech games is ultimately better for developers and consumers.
This is getting ridiculous. Real game, fake game, non-game, legit game. They're fucking video games. Hurt? The gaming industry is growing in Japan again thanks to the DS.
This man speaks the truth.
A Link to the Past said:
Bad games that sell in dozens are just as bad. You are right. But how often does a bad game that still sells in the 400k+ get released in Japan? Once a year? Once every two years? Most of the high selling games tend to be quality games, DoC was the exception, not the rule.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
they need a team of , what? , 3-5 people to make a brain training in 3 months! I think the scenario your painting is overreation.
And hell, if it means more companies put tiny teams together for them to try something totally new, alls the better.
re: Japanese and shit taste - why is it that this is only been spotted now? the Japanese buy absolutely any old shite whilst ignoring good games and it's been going on for years!
Oh, and Brain traing ? they rock. They fucking out and out rule. People who are bitching about it - have you even tried it?!
Brain trainings success is not the reason good games get replaced with shit - if it is, Nintendo really are geniuses, because companies have been focussing on shitty stuff that will sell for about 3-4 years now, so the fact they can influence the entire industry with games BEFORE they come out really is impressive.
DS witch hunt : this will end with someone eventually saying "well, yeah, the DS has more users, but the PSP userbase has BETTER users." and at that point, someone dies.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Bebpo said:
Okay?
Then why do you care? Clearly, NA and EU are already shit, might as well get started on the educational software market.
As someone already stated, Brain Trianings are cheap, and thusly, if Konami were to make a successful one - badabing, more money for Castlevania.
snatches said:
Nobody is saying that.
I love my DS. It's had so many excellent games for it already. I'd be really bummed if the system WASN'T selling well. I want Mario Kart to sell millions, I want Castlevania to sell millions.
People who are unhappy with the software sales here are unhappy because of what games are the ones selling.
This is no different than being unhappy the top30 selling games in the US are Madden/50cent/whatever, while your favorite GC game sold 50 copies. It has nothing to do with hardware but rather what is selling.
A Link to the Past
Banned
So the PSP is a new shabby piece of trash, then? :lol
charlequin
Banned
I get the sense that bepbo is ignoring what evidence does exist that Brain Training etc. aren't killing off "classic" games -- like Castlevania and M&L on DS both selling better than previous franchise entries.
It should also be pretty clear that BT sales are coming to a significant degree from market expansion rather than cannibalizing existing sales. Japanese game sales were already flat before Easter hit.
It should also be pretty clear that BT sales are coming to a significant degree from market expansion rather than cannibalizing existing sales. Japanese game sales were already flat before Easter hit.
Drinky Crow
Banned
never trust the opinion of a manchild with a chibi-robo avatar.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
Ugh
okay, so the games that are selling are :
Tamagochi
Mario Kart
BT1
BT2
Gentle BT
Animal Crossing
Nintendogs...
WHAT is offending you so much in this list?! At least 6 of these are GENIUNELY FUCKING GREAT!
So WHAT is getting you? have you played the BT games? Come on, fess up.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Monorojo said:
O rly?
Here's one thing you seem to have skimmed over:
PS2 is the #1. selling system in NA and EU. If the PS2 is old shabby trash, then that does not speak well for the industry.
sonycowboy
Member
Dalthien said:
It's really spectacular, but given that they sold 5M units of HW, it makes sense. The PS2 should rebound if they ever bother dropping the price, plus a new round of japanese developed software is coming this year. Not that it will come close to matching the DS, but it's still got quite a bit of life left in it.
Bebpo said:
See DCharlie's post. Apparently Brain Training is AWESOME. And looking at the rest, top sales of Animal Crossing and Mario Kart is reflecting what is selling well in North America. I just hope this success inspires top Japanese Dev teams (Squarenix, Konami, Capcom, Level 5, Sega, etc.) to put an even greater effort into not only releasing a lot more games on the system, but games that think outside the normal sequel filled convention.
We will all win.
Thats easily explained with the fact that DS didnt catch on in those 2 areas like it did in Japan along with the knowledge that hardware sales for all consoles practically DIED across the board.
Japan is into handhelds and seems to be completely ignoring consoles. US and EU just have a different mind set.
Japan is into handhelds and seems to be completely ignoring consoles. US and EU just have a different mind set.
FitzOfRage
Member
Tabris said:
Wouldn't a 360 put you back in the same spot...
A Link to the Past
Banned
Monorojo said:
Of course. After all, GBA is selling terribly in the US.
O wait
A Link to the Past said:
This thinking is just as naive as anyone will ever quote me of being.
Companies are about making money.
If Castlevania X cost $100,000 to make and sells 1,000 copies total earning a profit of $50,000
And Super Picture Pointing costs $10,000 to make and sells 10,000 copies earning a profit of $500,000
You are telling me that alternate world Konami will take this chunky profit they've just made off Super Picture Pointing and give Castlevania X a buget of $200,000 perfectly knowing that the game will likely sell even worse (as sequels do) and they will make less than $50,000 and just throw away $150,000 in the process?
That's batshit crazy and everyone reading this thread no matter how biased knows it. If sales on real games are declining but a company is still getting richer, they aren't going to keep pumping money into games that are only going to lose them profit.
God, people don't see what the truth of the matter is. What's the most important thing in the entire industry right now if you love Castlevania? What is the #1 thing that you should want to happen from the bottom of your heart?
It's that you should want Castlevania to sell more copies. That's it. End of the line. Gamers should want good games to sell more copies. That's the only thing that will give the teams more budget and more freedom to make even better games. Market's aside, consoles-aside, this is what matters. Game sales are faltering and selling worse and worse each year on all platforms (DS, GC, PS2, Xbox, PSP). How do we get these great games to sell more? That should be the #1 concern of the entire industry if it wasn't all about greedy money-grabbing.
How can good games start increasing their sales?
I'm not even going to dig into that as people probably have a million theories. But that's the important point that everyone seems to keep missing over and over and it's what's killing the industry.
Good luck with finding the answer, I'm out of this thread.
ghostlyjoe
Member
What a giant fucking semantic quagmire!!
"games" vs. "non-games"
"hardcore" vs. "casual"
50 Cent vs. Brain Training
People have their egos too damn tied-up in their game preferences.
Apparantly, the whole industry is trapped in a runaway bus, and Iwata is the "Wildcat" at the wheel. Disaster is imminent. After all, future game projects are greenlighted based entirely on last week's Japanese sales charts. That's why we get beloved (at GAF) games like Shadow of the Colossus.
(And don't bother pointing out the anecdotal nature of my evidence. My point is simple: Anyone who believes that Brain Training is the beginning of the end of "real games" must therefore also believe that there is absolutely no creative energy left in the industry. All developers can do from now on is ape what sold yesterday. If that's the case, why be a gamer? Jump ship now.)
"games" vs. "non-games"
"hardcore" vs. "casual"
50 Cent vs. Brain Training
People have their egos too damn tied-up in their game preferences.
Apparantly, the whole industry is trapped in a runaway bus, and Iwata is the "Wildcat" at the wheel. Disaster is imminent. After all, future game projects are greenlighted based entirely on last week's Japanese sales charts. That's why we get beloved (at GAF) games like Shadow of the Colossus.
(And don't bother pointing out the anecdotal nature of my evidence. My point is simple: Anyone who believes that Brain Training is the beginning of the end of "real games" must therefore also believe that there is absolutely no creative energy left in the industry. All developers can do from now on is ape what sold yesterday. If that's the case, why be a gamer? Jump ship now.)
I dont get what this NonGame hate is all about.
ok they are selling very very well, and make tons of money but do they really influence the real games? I say no.
If that would be so, why are jap developers like capcom, konami, square/enix....... dont quit spending millions of money in real games and start going the BigN way? Because there is a market for both of them. The NonGames and the real Games can coexist.
The BigN really discoverd a new market with NonGames. The succes in japan just makes so much sens. as you may now the japanese population is aging dramatically. there is a whole industrie in japan just for the aged population. and this is where Nintendo jumped in with some games made just for that group. they had the right idea at the right time.
The poor PS2 performens may be really due to its age, people want a change and are waiting for the next generation shift. and dont put to much belive in those surveys saying the consumers dont want to buy next gen systems, one of them during the TGS 05 said that people are interested in the 360, and all of us know how well it did in japan till now.
ok they are selling very very well, and make tons of money but do they really influence the real games? I say no.
If that would be so, why are jap developers like capcom, konami, square/enix....... dont quit spending millions of money in real games and start going the BigN way? Because there is a market for both of them. The NonGames and the real Games can coexist.
The BigN really discoverd a new market with NonGames. The succes in japan just makes so much sens. as you may now the japanese population is aging dramatically. there is a whole industrie in japan just for the aged population. and this is where Nintendo jumped in with some games made just for that group. they had the right idea at the right time.
The poor PS2 performens may be really due to its age, people want a change and are waiting for the next generation shift. and dont put to much belive in those surveys saying the consumers dont want to buy next gen systems, one of them during the TGS 05 said that people are interested in the 360, and all of us know how well it did in japan till now.
ironichaos
Member
Acclaim, 3DO, etc. would say otherwise.
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
Look - BEFORE BT , before any of these other games like that, Castlevania has been selling pretty poor-to-average.
The implication that now BT is popular means that castlevania not being made is down to BT and the DS is just flat wrong.
You are right, Companies are about making money - which is why i'm surprised we still get to see so many castlevanias, but you seem to think that all companies are going to jump on this bandwagon at the expense of existing IP - and that's just baseless at the moment.
AND WE STILL DIDN'T FIND OUT IF YOU'VE PLAYED BT!!! COME BACK THIS INSTANCE, OR ITS BED TIME WITH NO SUPPER AND SLIPPER ACROSS YOUR ASS , MELADDO!!
ghostlyjoe
Member
Bebpo said:
Case in point.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Bebpo said:
Getting rid of Brain Training games won't increase sales for Castlevania DoS - even if it weren't already discontinued (a common reason for low sales of DS games), people who want DoS would already own DoS, and a cheap BT game won't prevent people from buying them.
And I never said that they would make BT, make a profit and then decide "Hey, let's put it in Castlevania!" What will happen if they make a great profit with a BT game? They will have more money, more money that can be applied to games like DoS.
MrAngryFace
Banned
WHO THE FUK BUYS THEIR GAMES FROM JAPAN?!?!?!?
Drinky Crow
Banned
i think the more disturbing trend is how quickly nintendo fanboys will rush to defend crap like a) the ds hardware, b) nintendogs and animal crossing, c) brain training sudoku concentration bullshit that can be purchased in super-ultra-high-resolution form for 99c on an airport magazine rack
I really don't buy this non-games killing the industry thing.
The broad appeal of things like Brain Training is presumedly getting some people back into games who haven't touched a console or handheld for years. If anything that will help old-school games like Castlevania because that's the last type of games they played.
That section of the market has been dying for years, with or without the DS. By growing the market DS can only help things.
The broad appeal of things like Brain Training is presumedly getting some people back into games who haven't touched a console or handheld for years. If anything that will help old-school games like Castlevania because that's the last type of games they played.
That section of the market has been dying for years, with or without the DS. By growing the market DS can only help things.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Kuroyume said:
Yeah. After all, there's nothing "gamey" about trying to improve your score (brain age) by solving a variety of puzzles and questions.
DCharlie said:
Yeah, I bought Yawaraka Brain Training the day it came out. It's neat in an electro-plankton way. But if I was reviewing it I wouldn't give it higher than a 6 or so. Like Electro-plankton it's fun for a day and then you never play it again. It's not the type of game that should be leading the direction of the industry. I'd be just as unhappy if Electro-plankton was the one selling several millions. I don't want an industry of shallow games that are fun for a pop and then boring once you've seen and done everything in an hour.
THERE ARE YOU HAPPY MR. CHARLIE?
And to answer you since I'm posting this on your behalf. I know Castlevania and various game franchises have been dying even before the DS came around. BT is not the cause of this decline! That is true. But you have to agree that when "cool thing of the week" games appear and sell and sell and sell for months on end in Japan that they're hurting all the other games on the charts and in that way not just BT, but just this type of bandwagon thinking in Japan is really killing good games.
PS. BT craze = Pachislot Fist of the Northstar craze of 2005.
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