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DSi region locked regular DS games, WTF?
- Thread starter Conrad Link
- Start date
jarosh said:sadly that's not true:
NTR-005, still region locked.
so at least now we know that the sonic collection cartridge is a plain old ntr (regular ds) game, yet is STILL somehow region locked (on dsi systems). oh my.
NTR-005 is the physical cartridge casing, he means the catalog number for the game printed near the barcode or on the cart itself.
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Region locking is such BS. A sale is a fucking sale.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
What's BS to me isn't so much region locking; if companies want to be assholes, let them--it's legal and lobbying efforts to make cracking a region lock illegal. Companies have a right to do what they're going to do (although certainly it pisses me off as much as anyone, and I think it really doesn't give them the benefits they think they get from it), but so do customers. A system where companies can restrict but customers can't free is ridiculous.
Tranced Shadow
Member
What I don't understand is:
These games run better on the DSi, but they don't advertise this at all? Not even a little "Plays best on DSi!" sticker?
What's the point? To piss off both the people who'll import Avatar for their DSis? :lol
These games run better on the DSi, but they don't advertise this at all? Not even a little "Plays best on DSi!" sticker?
What's the point? To piss off both the people who'll import Avatar for their DSis? :lol
Dragona Akehi
Retired
Remember folks, Nintendo is looking out for your best interests!
jarosh said:
It's not Sonic, but you can see the code in Turrican's link above the barcode; it's TWL-####-(region). Most publishers put it near the barcode. Sonic US is TWL-VSOE-USA, while Euro is TWL-VSOV-EUR.
It seems to keep the two-letter game identifier Nintendo's been using since the NES. It's always TWL-V(two letter ID)(one letter country code)-(long country code). Presumably the one-letter country code is actually a localization code, as the US gets E for English, but I can't think of any DS games that have gotten a minority language localization
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
Mandoric said:
A two letter code wouldn't make any sense; there are more than 676 domestic released DS games. Hell, there are more than 1296, so it wouldn't even work for alphanumeric. Three characters, naturally, would be fine.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
I really do like the irony of Nintendo managing to fuck up everything.
I admit that I am not an expert of business protocol when it comes to international game selling, but is there a good reason besides control issues on why publishers/companies/whatever try to block out importing? I would have been under the impression that a sale is a sale regardless, but it seems like I'm missing something here (does this have to do with the hiked-costs of import retailers, regional branches wanting to make sure that their game sells above other branches, or something else?)
red shoe paul
Banned
Infernal Monkey said:The game doesn't have any DSi functions, so it seems like SEGA put this on a DSi-enhanced cartridge just for the sole purpose of region locking, which doesn't bode well for their future DS games I guess.
Edit: beaten
It's not that it was made with an enhanced cart, it's because it was made with the DSi creator and tools.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
MechaX said:
The argument is that local distributors who purchase the rights to whatever media it is "lose" when selling media locally when they come months late, cost twice as much and have generally shitty conversions.
I dunno, that seems anti-competitive and against the great tenets of capitalism to me! But what do I know?
The fact that Nintendo can region lock their titles and also sell the hardware is a sore point too and anti-competitive. Here in Australia DVD players are legally required to be able to be unlocked for region free uses, the same doesn't apply for consoles or consoles with a DVD player in it.
Dragona Akehi
Retired
VOOK said:
You really ought to take that up with the Australian consumer standards groups there. You've already got the legal precedent with DVD players, and I believe Sony lost a case when it came for installing modchips on the PlayStation to bypass region coding.
Dragona Akehi said:
I know Nintendo has a reputation for being very greedy, but their region locking seems to be less about money and more about control. Nintendo has never liked customers having too much control over their consoles, they hated cheat devices, they hate hacking and homebrew, and it seems that they've decided that you can only play the games you are 'supposed' to play, i.e. that they have certified for your region. It's funny, Sony made that huge stink over Lik-Sang and forced them out of business, but they are extremely relaxed about region locking now, whereas Nintendo are slowly squeezing their heads up their backsides and locking their consoles up.
VOOK said:
I guess there is a slight difference in the cartridge innards between DS/DSi software, one that involves some sort of region identifier. All they do is flick that on, it's not like a DS/DSLite system can pick that up, only a DSi has that in the firmware.
Stumpokapow said:
Checking back, they appear to swap out the prefix if necessary, but try to keep it the same as much as possible. NDS games were all NTR-A(??)(?)-(???) initially, with newer titles gradually beginning with B (mainly US/EU?), C (JP/EU?), Y (everyone?), and I (Main-series Pokemon only apparently :lol). It is alphanumeric, though.
Edit:
MechaX said:
Games in the US are $20-$40 cheaper retail than, well, pretty much anywhere else; legit SE Asia versions of American games are the same amount cheaper again but usually late. Pretty much everyone can read English. And mass importation makes running PR a huge pain in the ass, as does importation of anything that happens to be especially sensitive in a region.
Dragona Akehi said:
I've already phoned them once, apprently one complaint won't do it though. May ring tomorrow depending on what I hear back about this.
I've emailed Ubisoft and Sega, so we'll see what happens.
Ushojax said:
That's the technical explanation but what about the fact that the game is the same on either console. It's only a DSi game for region locking? Or something else?
SolarPowered
Member
I haven't bought many games on my DS lite and won't upgrade until the 3DS comes out. I thought this would save me the from the headache of dealing with incompatible DSi titles and no GBA slot.
Now there are actually titles DS titles with DSi "features" that won't play on the DS?
The sonic classic collection pics look familiar. Are they from this game?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002WDL53O/?tag=neogaf0e-20
If so...then nintendo are headed down a dark path again.
Now there are actually titles DS titles with DSi "features" that won't play on the DS?
The sonic classic collection pics look familiar. Are they from this game?
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002WDL53O/?tag=neogaf0e-20
If so...then nintendo are headed down a dark path again.
Mandoric said:
The first digit represents a specific library but they will reserve other letters when necessary if it is too large. For example on the DSi the prefix letter 'K' is DSiWare, and 'N' is system software. The second 2 are random identifiers they will always go from 2-Z, I have never seen 0 or 1 used. The last digit is the region code.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
Ushojax said:
At the rate that they're going, Sony will be region locking the PS3 and PSP via the next firmware updates.
VOOK said:
I think some people said it ran faster on a DSi, but I'm not sure. If that is the case, SEGA was probably too embarrassed to put a sticker that says 'plays better on DSi' given how badly it runs on the regular DS units. Just a publisher pulling a dick move, hardly anything new.
VOOK said:
I'm not sure why this move is "anti-competitive". Console makers should have the right to manufacture their hardware as they wish (within limitations), a right which includes stupid or illogical decisions.
I'm not sure about the legality of modding a console to alter such settings, though. I presume that some modifications are legal, and some aren't?
gerg said:
It's anti competitive because Nintendo make the hardware, but they're forcing you to buy games in Australia because you can only play them. It's the reason why DVD players must be able to be unlocked, so you can buy DVD's from anywhere.
Modchips are 100% legal in Australia, in fact I have one. I don't need it anymore with the homebrew channel and the like but for a while it was the only way to get region free games.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
gerg said:
Presumably he's arguing that it's anti-competitive to disallow foreign subsidiaries of companies to compete with domestic subsidiaries of companies, which makes sense to me.
For example, laws or lobbying that argues that I shouldn't be able to buy 80% cheaper Indian versions of textbooks produced by Indian subsidiaries of Prenctice Hall and others strikes me as anti-competitive, even if they're just trying to stop themselves from competing with themselves. I use that example because it takes technology entirely out of the picture.
Ushojax said:
This is the most plausible theory if you do a little research and apply a little logic. There isn't enough power in the DS to run a software-scaled Genesis game at full tilt, which is why the best emulator at the moment pulls a number of tricks to use the DS' hardware rendering functions. You don't get to see the full screen all at once as a result, tiles are cut off in weird places, that sort of thing. Fully playable but a little funky.
From what I've found online, the Sonic Classic Collection seems to use an emulator with software rendering (it's suggested it was made by the same guy who created the above emulator, but based on his old software version) for the sake of full accuracy. The music is even apparently streamed, I guess, because there just isn't enough power. What this means for the DSi, though, is that if they include a DSi-mode binary on the card, then they get access to the faster processor, more RAM, etc. that has the potential to make it work better.
Doing this makes the region-locking kick in, which yeah, that's shitty and all for importers, but it'd also be a win for DSi owners who aren't buying cross-border.
gerg said:
Differentiating between legal and right is important though. Fair use is modification to enable you to play other region games.
I cant say Im happy about this move. Ive grown accustomed to buying lots of interesting DS games due to the region free nature of the machine. This move will make me rethink my purchases, and wait for more info on the 3DS which until today was an insta-buy for me based on Wii and DS experiences Ive had.
Well this bodes badly for the next generation of Nintendo handhelds. As well as being anti-consumer, it is kinda ridiculous, as i often buy DS games when i'm on holiday to play for the flight back or in general traveling, limiting this to outside my region travel costs them a sale, and blocking imports of un-available games is just asking people to pirate.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
region locking is publishers' call. you people do realise that nintnedo just gave the gun to the perpetrators, right? and chances are those perpetrators actively asked for it.
anyway, as much as i hate region-locking (i.e. as the next guy), region locking is what allows a small, well-respected publisher like xseed make a few bucks with hard-core userbase titles like korg ds10+ (the only dsi-enhanced cart i have here) - i wonder what part of the original ds10 userbase would've resisted to importing the jp version the moment it was released last year had there not been region locking.
anyway, as much as i hate region-locking (i.e. as the next guy), region locking is what allows a small, well-respected publisher like xseed make a few bucks with hard-core userbase titles like korg ds10+ (the only dsi-enhanced cart i have here) - i wonder what part of the original ds10 userbase would've resisted to importing the jp version the moment it was released last year had there not been region locking.
blu said:
This isn't really true for any systems except, possibly, Sega's. I'm unaware of the exact details of approval, but Sega's systems always handled regions by checking a list of approved regions against the console's single region.
Nintendo's systems either employ a physical cartridge shape lockout (between US/Japan, cart systems) or a special lockout chip (PAL cartridge systems), while newer systems check for a particular region code. Sony, likewise, checked for a particular region code on the PS1 and PS2.
Microsoft technically has a Sega-style approved regions bitmask that it ANDs with the console's region and boots on a result != zero, but approval, with accompanying fees, must be redone per bootable region.
Alrighty people, emails sent, article up - tomorrow will bring updates!
electroshockwave
Member
Wow, I'm glad I stuck with a DS lite when I had to replace my broken one. I always assumed that the region locked games would have some sort of "DSi Enhanced" logo on them instead of small print on the back of the box that wouldn't be included in the info by online retailers.
How did you misspell "enhanced" three times?
dani_dc said:
How did you misspell "enhanced" three times?
Segata Sanshiro
Member
oh look the dsl is still the better ds go figure
Just saying but if you check NOA's site this shouldn't hit you by surprise:
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/dsi/en_na/faq.jsp#vers
http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/dsi/en_na/faq.jsp#vers
YOU ALL DESERVE THIS FOR BUYING THE DSi :lol
:lol
Region Locking is something I don't understand.
Why do it?
Most of the people who import games are the type who would buy it again if it came out in their region...
All it does is hurt the consumer. Either way, DSlite is the way to go
:lol
Region Locking is something I don't understand.
Why do it?
Most of the people who import games are the type who would buy it again if it came out in their region...
All it does is hurt the consumer. Either way, DSlite is the way to go
VOOK said:
I wouldn't absolutely say "yes" that it has DSi-exclusive featuresit seems quite likely as I laid out above, but it is also true that I just plain don't knowbut I wouldn't say "no" either.
I'd have said "unconfirmed, but likely," and explained.
WEGGLES said:
Enjoying yourself?