Support NeoGAF

[HK-47]

Remember folks, Nintendo is looking out for your best interests!

Bububu *insert large console manufacturer here* cares! Thats why I must be a crazy fanboy!

 

[Galactic Fork]

I'm really glad this doesn't affect the dsl at all, or I'd only be able to import new Japanese games.

BUT, I'm sad that this will almost definitely carry to the 3DS. No 3D third installment of Ouendan for me! Unless I buy a Japanese 3DS, too. That's the part that bugs me the most, forget getting games earlier or cheaper, what about games that will never come here???

 

[runnin_blue]

yeah i discovered this problem with korg+. the american version doesn't work on the aussie dsi. complete bs if you ask me.

 

[meppi]

Goddamn-it.

If my Umihara Kawase cart that just shipped has region locking, there will be RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

 

[gerg]

Wha? Because it means you cannot import a superior product from abroad, or you have to wait months to buy a domestic product? Because you are forced to pay a higher price than you could get by importing?

It's anti competitive because Nintendo make the hardware, but they're forcing you to buy games in Australia because you can only play them. It's the reason why DVD players must be able to be unlocked, so you can buy DVD's from anywhere.

Those would be reasons as to why the decision is "anti-consumer", which I don't think the decision necessarily is.

Differentiating between legal and right is important though. Fair use is modification to enable you to play other region games.

Indeed it is. On the one hand, I agree that the consumer should have the right to use a product pretty much as they wish. On the other hand, I struggle to conceive of a consumer right to play games from foreign regions, and one which isn't being honoured here.

Presumably he's arguing that it's anti-competitive to disallow foreign subsidiaries of companies to compete with domestic subsidiaries of companies, which makes sense to me.

Hmm...

Unless I am mistaken, games can't be legally and commercially released on the Wii without Nintendo's "seal of quality", can they? If that's the case, is such a system also anti-competitive? I ask this because I want to know where the line between the rights of a corporation to run themselves as they wish and the demand to be pro-competition exists.

 

[Somnid]

Unless I am mistaken, games can't be legally and commercially released on the Wii without Nintendo's "seal of quality", can they? If that's the case, is such a system also anti-competitive? I ask this because I want to know where the line between the rights of a corporation to run themselves as they wish and the demand to be pro-competition exists.

Not illegal and many are in favor of this. You might know it as homebrew. But as far as GAF goes corporations should always run themselves in line to the consumer and sustainability is not the consumer's problem which creates irreconcilable problems.

 

[ITA84]

Goddamn-it.

If my Umihara Kawase cart that just shipped has region locking, there will be RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGE!

I wouldn't worry, it's not a DSi-enhanced game.

 

[meppi]

I wouldn't worry, it's not a DSi-enhanced game.

Phew, thanks.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

Dick move by Sega, even more of a dick move by Nintendo.

 

[perfectchaos007]

What's the purpose behind region locking? So people who want to play Japan only games have to buy a japan DS? I just think they are losing money all around. It would be more profitable to sell more games than it would a system.

 

[esquire]

There is an extremely easy way around the DSi region lock. Not worth complaining about it unless Nintendo somehow manages to 'fix' it.

 

[red shoe paul]

yeah i discovered this problem with korg+. the american version doesn't work on the aussie dsi. complete bs if you ask me.

Because it's enhanced. The way you can tell of an enhanced cart is the TWL serial on the back of the box. If it starts with TWL, it's enhanced.

There is an extremely easy way around the DSi region lock. Not worth complaining about it unless Nintendo somehow manages to 'fix' it.

Yes, flashcards.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

What's the purpose behind region locking? So people who want to play Japan only games have to buy a japan DS? I just think they are losing money all around. It would be more profitable to sell more games than it would a system.

So they control sales and releases by territory. Europeans don't import cheaper American versions, for example, screwing with NOE's bottom line.

 

[gerg]

Not illegal and many are in favor of this. You might know it as homebrew. But as far as GAF goes corporations should always run themselves in line to the consumer and sustainability is not the consumer's problem which creates irreconcilable problems.

I'm not sure I've fully understand your post.

In any case, I think that people should be able to create homebrew games. However, I also think that's it's right for Nintendo to be able to deny those people the ability to release those games commercially, and, more generally, to be able to control what content is released on its platforms.

 

[esquire]

Because it's enhanced. The way you can tell of an enhanced cart is the TWL serial on the back of the box. If it starts with TWL, it's enhanced.



Yes, flashcards.

Flash cards? No I'm talking about a solution that doesn't involve new hardware/software, just creative thinking on the part of the user.

 

[dallow_bg]

There is an extremely easy way around the DSi region lock. Not worth complaining about it unless Nintendo somehow manages to 'fix' it.

And how do I do this so I know when I wind up importing a locked DSi game.

Hot swapping?

 

[Shiggy]

All DS games, though, have product codes beginning with NTR, whereas codes of DSi-enhanced and DSi-exclusive games begin with TWL. But this doesn’t help when the cards are on the inside of the packaging.

But the TWL is on the packaging?!

Nevertheless, the warning on the Australian Sonic boxart is missing on the European one.

 

[zigg]

Yes, flashcards.

You're aware that (if this particular game really does use the DSi's faster processor to improve the emulation) running it on a flashcard will kill that by making it run in DS mode, right?

 

[Pezking]

Will "Dragon Quest IX" be DSi enhanced?

I have an european DSi XL and plan on importing the american version of this game...

I import most DS games from the US, because I hate the european boxes so much.

If they start region locking "normal" games that don't use any special features of the DSi (camera, etc.), I'd have to sell my european DSi XL and import an american model...which would suck.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Well that's annoying. I don't understand why we keep erecting these walls around countries like this. It just gets sillier and sillier.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Unless I am mistaken, games can't be legally and commercially released on the Wii without Nintendo's "seal of quality", can they? If that's the case, is such a system also anti-competitive? I ask this because I want to know where the line between the rights of a corporation to run themselves as they wish and the demand to be pro-competition exists.

Virtually everyone here was in favour of the Game Genie / Pro Action Replay / Game Shark / FreeLoader, all of which were commercial products that were unlicensed. In addition, most if not all third party controllers and adapters are unlicensed.

I'm not sure how old you are and you mentioned before that you live in Europe, so you might not remember these babies, but for most of us in North America, they were commonplace. Tengen made a number of unlicensed NES games that they sold--mind you, this was in an era when Nintendo was much more restrictive (all games must be exclusive, no more than five games per company per year) so sympathy for companies who want to do that sort of thing now might be a little less. The SNES also had a truly awesome example of what happens when you can't figure out how to circumvent the licensing mechanism, but still want to sell your stuff and for bonus points, the game itself is totally comical.

Finally, you might look at the iPhone Jailbreaks. I'm not talking free homebrew, although certainly there's tons of that. I use a number of Jailbroken apps which are commercial. One, iLocalis, GPS-tracks my iPhone and records the information in case it is stolen. It would not be permitted on the app store because it competes with a service Apple sells for $100 a year. I paid, uh, 5 euro for iLocalis I think. You can see the benefit for me there. I also use jailbroken software to remove my cell phone carrier's advertising from the phone.

Note that I mention all of these things to give colour commentary on how people in the gaming or software world react to unlicensed commercial software, not to make any point about the legality of any of it. Different jurisdictions range from a positive affirmation to defeat licensing tech to the criminalization of personal backups and format shifting.

 

[Pezking]

There is an extremely easy way around the DSi region lock. Not worth complaining about it unless Nintendo somehow manages to 'fix' it.

I've just googled my ass off to find this easy way around it - and couldn't find anything.

So how do you do it?

 

[gerg]

Note that I mention all of these things to give colour commentary on how people in the gaming or software world react to unlicensed commercial software, not to make any point about the legality of any of it. Different jurisdictions range from a positive affirmation to defeat licensing tech to the criminalization of personal backups and format shifting.

That's cool.

I'm not sure what you would want me to say, but it's interesting.

 

[jaundicejuice]

I don't understand why Nintendo has done this, if not for people importing Ouendan, would Elite Beat Agents ever have been created? People importing one game showed them a business opportunity they didn't know existed. SCEA and SCEE passed on Demon's Souls, arguably the number of people importing the Asian version showed Atlus that there was a potential market. The success of the NA release in turn led to SCEE reversing their decision and releasing Demon's Souls in Europe.

Region locking is foolish and short sighted.

 

[Morokh]

Some games still work I can play my Disgaea DS US copy on my PAL Dsi with no problem.

 

[Wizpig]

Yeah, I noticed that too.

The game doesn't have any DSi functions, so it seems like SEGA put this on a DSi-enhanced cartridge just for the sole purpose of region locking, which doesn't bode well for their future DS games I guess.

Edit: beaten

This makes no fucking sense.
I bought the same game, the limited edition.

Luckily my DSi XL is European... but still, region lock on MY DS? what the fuck?

 

[esquire]

I've just googled my ass off to find this easy way around it - and couldn't find anything.

So how do you do it?

You have to hold down the cart while the game is loading to circumvent the region lock. This was on a Japanese DSi playing a North American game. Your mileage may vary.

 

[zigg]

You have to hold down the cart while the game is loading to circumvent the region lock. This was on a Japanese DSi playing a North American game. Your mileage may vary.

Does it force DS mode? First I've heard of this.

EDIT: Hands-on experience with the DSi enhancement: it does, in fact, run better. http://ds.nintendolife.com/reviews/2010/03/sonic_classic_collection_ds#comment446003

 

[Wizpig]

Does it force DS mode? First I've heard of this.

EDIT: Hands-on experience with the DSi enhancement: it does, in fact, run better. http://ds.nintendolife.com/reviews/2010/03/sonic_classic_collection_ds#comment446003

Thanks for the link, this explains - in a certain way - why it's locked, at least.
Still doesn't make much sense.

Oh and

"> The flicker mentioned in the Sonic 3 special stages occur when playing on a DSi - on a DS Lite, they run much more smoothly."

Damn it, Sega...

 

[zigg]

"> The flicker mentioned in the Sonic 3 special stages occur when playing on a DSi - on a DS Lite, they run much more smoothly."

Yeah, that one sorta blew my mind :lol

But yeah, I don't like the region-locking either, though these days it doesn't concern me personally like it did in the days I imported Electroplankton, Ouendan, and Band Brothers. I think I'd rather have a native version that runs better on my more-capable hardware than not at all, though. Given the options, Sega made the right decision in my book.

 

[Somnid]

Just a thought but would it be worth it if we compiled a list of these?

 

[zigg]

Just a thought but would it be worth it if we compiled a list of these?

I'd say so. Question's bound to come up from time to time, particularly given the fine print on the back cover isn't obvious.

Any list would have to explain why, though. It's one thing to not think the increased emulation performance is worth it in this particular case; quite another to believe there factually is no improvement, as I think some people in this thread did or do.

 

[Wizpig]

Just a thought but would it be worth it if we compiled a list of these?

We absolutely need a thread like "List of fail - DSi region-locked games"

 

[Somnid]

Here's what I got so far, it's actually harder than I thought to find this stuff out even when you're looking for it (you can bet if it's Ubi-shit it's DSi-enhanced). Please add to this if you know of any:

Assassin's Creed 2: Discovery
TitleID:
Reason: Can take pictures to put on wanted posters.

Classic Word Games
TitleID: TWL-VCW*
Reason: Can create unlimited number of crossword grids

Idol M@ster: Dearly Stars
TitleID: TWL-VIM*
Reason:

Imagine: Artist:
TitleID:
Reason: Can encorporate picture into your art

Korg-DS 10 Plus:
TitleID:
Reason: Additional instrument tracks and features

My Cooking Coach
TitleID: TWL-VCK*
Reason: Can take pictures of yourself to use with profiles

Power Pro-kun Pocket 12
TitleID: TWL-VPT*
Reason:

Rabbids Go Home
TitleID:
Reason: Can take pictures with rabbids to send to friends

Sonic DS Collection
TitleID: TWL-VSO*
Reason: Improved emulation speed on DSi

Style Lab: Jewellery Designer
TitleID:
Reason: Players can take pictures to put themselves in the game

Style Lab: Makeover
TitleID:
Reason: Players can take pictures of friends to give makeovers

Exclusive:

Foto Showdown / Monster Finder
TitleID:

System Flaw
TitleID:

 

[Turrican3]

To tell DSi and DS games apart, just look at the product code: If it starts with "NTR", it's a DS game and region free. It it starts with "TWL", it's DSi enhanced and region locked. The product code is on the front cover for the Japanese version, and on the back for EU and US versions.

Ok, but is this valid as a general rule?
I mean, does the TWL code automatically imply that a particular title will surely be region locked or "just" that it might be region locked?

 

[zigg]

I mean, does the TWL code automatically imply that a particular title will surely be region locked or "just" that it might be region locked?

I believe the former; I don't believe region-locking is optional on the platform.

 

[Yoshi]

I'm planing on buying Sonic Classic Collection. I know, it's off topic, but how badly does the game run on a DS (Lite)? Is it minor flaws and hiccups or does it really distract from the experience?

 

[dallow_bg]

More games need to take the Sonic route actually and improve the game rather than just 'take pictures'.

 

[Fantasy Final]

So that means the next Pokemon game on DS will be region locked? Enjoy your 1 year wait people.

 

[Somnid]

So that means the next Pokemon game on DS will be region locked? Enjoy your 1 year wait people.

I can't wait to see the shit-fit if that happened. But it's just for vanilla DS for the time being.

 

[perfectchaos007]

So they control sales and releases by territory. Europeans don't import cheaper American versions, for example, screwing with NOE's bottom line.

well that's understandable, but what about games that are exclusive to a territory like Jump Superstars? I guess at least it's a good thing that only some of the games are region locked rather than the console. Thanks to region locking on the Wii, I can't play Disaster Day of Crisis while the rest of the world already enjoyed it years ago. And yes Reggie, it IS your problem. That's less money to Nintendo corp.

 

[perfectchaos007]

I'm planing on buying Sonic Classic Collection. I know, it's off topic, but how badly does the game run on a DS (Lite)? Is it minor flaws and hiccups or does it really distract from the experience?

well the IGN review was what convineced me to get it. Like they said, it works well and almost perfectly emulates the genesis version, but just like most games/ports on DS, there are resolution issues.

edit: sorry for the double post, I thought I was in a fast moving thread for some reason.

 

[Kobun Heat]

.

Region locking sucks, Nintendo. Thank you for this bullshit.

 

[esquire]

Does it force DS mode? First I've heard of this.

EDIT: Hands-on experience with the DSi enhancement: it does, in fact, run better. http://ds.nintendolife.com/reviews/2010/03/sonic_classic_collection_ds#comment446003

What do you mean by DS mode? It's possible as I'm not really sure what "DS mode" is.

 

[Pezking]

You have to hold down the cart while the game is loading to circumvent the region lock. This was on a Japanese DSi playing a North American game. Your mileage may vary.

What? Really? No kidding?

This is like the swap trick on the original Playstation, using a paperclip to make it believe the drive is closed!

 

[OMG Aero]

So that means the next Pokemon game on DS will be region locked? Enjoy your 1 year wait people.

I already do. I'd rather wait and enjoy the game then struggle through something I don't understand.

 

[Brazil]

YOU ALL DESERVE THIS FOR BUYING THE DSi :lol

:lol

You are not worthy of the party cat avatar.

 

[dallow_bg]

What do you mean by DS mode? It's possible as I'm not really sure what "DS mode" is.

He means, does the game think it's playing in a DS?

Which would mean losing the DSi-enhanced features, but at least you'd get to play.

 

[zigg]

What do you mean by DS mode? It's possible as I'm not really sure what "DS mode" is.

All DS games run in a limited mode on the DSi hardware. In DS mode, the increased CPU speed, new Wi-Fi chip (and thus WPA), cameras, internal memory, etc. are unavailable. Current flash cards run in this mode; the only thing DSi-compatible means is they've been built specially to fool the DSi into thinking they're a valid DS game.

So, basically, the question is, does a game loaded this way still run as a DSi-enhanced game?

As I understand it, a DSi-enhanced game actually contains two copies of itself, one built for DS, one for DSi. The latter comes loaded with the region code and new anti-piracy features.

 

[sfog]

Here's what I got so far, it's actually harder than I thought to find this stuff out even when you're looking for it (you can bet if it's Ubi-shit it's DSi-enhanced). Please add to this if you know of any:

Exclusive:

Foto Showdown / Monster Finder
TitleID:

System Flaw
TitleID:

Picture Perfect Hair Salon is another retail DSi exclusive (are there any others out there aside from these 3?), although I don't know anything else about it. Presumably, it lets you photograph yourself. There's another similar one upcoming (also presumably retail) from the same publisher that's ESRB rated as well, Picture Perfect Pocket Stylist.

One rom listing place shows the following (some are duplicates from the list already):

4771 Germany's Next Topmodel - Das Offizielle Spiel zur Staffel 2010 (DSi Enhanced) Germany Eeprom - 64 kbit 256 Mbit
xxxx Hair Salon (DSi Exclusive) Europe TBC 256 Mbit
4765 Sonic Classic Collection (DSi Enhanced) USA Eeprom - 512 kbit 512 Mbit
4762 Alice in Wonderland (DSi Enhanced) USA Eeprom - 64 kbit 512 Mbit
4755 Kirakira Rhythm Collection (DSi Enhanced) Japan Eeprom - 64 kbit 512 Mbit
4754 James Cameron's Avatar - The Game (DSi Enhanced) Japan Eeprom - 4 kbit 512 Mbit
4694 Assassin's Creed II - Discovery (DSi Enhanced) Europe Eeprom - 64 kbit 512 Mbit
4678 Bejeweled Twist (DSi Enhanced) USA TBC 256 Mbit
4676 Daniel X - The Ultimate Power (DSi Enhanced) USA TBC 512 Mbit
4665 Biggest Loser USA, The (DSi Enhanced) Europe Eeprom - 64 kbit 256 Mbit
4664 Katekyoo Hitman Reborn! DS - Ore ga Boss! - Saikyou Family Taisen (DSi Enhanced) Japan TBC 512 Mbit
4661 Jig A Pix - Pets (DSi Enhanced) Europe Eeprom - 4 kbit 256 Mbit
4651 Jam Sessions 2 (DSi Enhanced) USA Eeprom - 512 kbit 512 Mbit
4648 Imagine Artist (DSi Enhanced) Europe TBC 256 Mbit
4647 iCarly (DSi Enhanced) Australia Eeprom - 64 kbit 512 Mbit
4646 Girls Life - Jewellery Style (DSi Enhanced) Europe Eeprom - 512 kbit 256 Mbit
4637 Just Sing! (DSi Enhanced) Europe TBC 512 Mbit
4609 iCarly (DSi Enhanced) USA Eeprom - 64 kbit 512 Mbit
4575 James Cameron's Avatar - The Game (DSi Enhanced) Europe Eeprom - 4 kbit 512 Mbit
4529 James Cameron's Avatar - The Game (DSi Enhanced) USA Eeprom - 4 kbit 512 Mbit
4518 Power Pro Kun Pocket 12 (DSi Enhanced) Japan TBC 1024 Mbit
xxxx Monster Finder (DSi Exclusive) Japan TBC 256 Mbit
4456 Style Lab - Jewelry Design (DSi Enhanced) USA Eeprom - 512 kbit 256 Mbit
4433 Assassin's Creed II - Discovery (DSi Enhanced) USA Eeprom - 64 kbit 512 Mbit
4420 Women's Murder Club - Games of Passion (DSi Enhanced) Europe Eeprom - 4 kbit 256 Mbit
4381 Girls Life - Makeover (DSi Enhanced) Europe TBC 256 Mbit
4380 Girls Life - Fashion Addict (DSi Enhanced) Europe TBC 1024 Mbit
4376 Rabbids Go Home (DSi Enhanced) Europe TBC 256 Mbit
4357 Imagine - Rescue Vet (DSi Enhanced) Europe TBC 512 Mbit
4304 Dolphin Island - Underwater Adventures (DSi Enhanced) Europe Eeprom - 4 kbit 256 Mbit
4257 Biggest Loser, The (DSi Enhanced) USA Eeprom - 64 kbit 256 Mbit
4244 Imagine - Journalist (DSi Enhanced) Europe Eeprom - 4 kbit 256 Mbit
4187 Idolmaster - Dearly Stars, The (Dsi Enhanced) Japan Eeprom - 512 kbit 2048 Mbit
4040 Mi Experto en Cocina - Comida Saludable (DSi Enhanced) Spain Eeprom - 64 kbit 1024 Mbit
3980 Il Mio Coach di Cucina - Prepara Cibi Sani e Gustosi (DSi Enhanced) Italy Eeprom - 64 kbit 1024 Mbit
3970 Bravissi-Mots (DSi Enhanced) France Eeprom - 64 kbit 256 Mbit
3952 Mein Koch-Coach - Gesund und Lecker Kochen (DSi Enhanced) Germany Eeprom - 64 kbit 1024 Mbit
3949 My Healthy Cooking Coach (DSi Enhanced) USA Eeprom - 64 kbit 1024 Mbit
3939 My Cooking Coach - Prepare Healthy Recipes (DSi Enhanced) Europe Eeprom - 64 kbit 1024 Mbit
3938 Classic Word Games (DSi Enhanced) Europe Eeprom - 64 kbit 256 Mbit
3929 Classic Word Games (DSi Enhanced) USA Eeprom - 64 kbit 256 Mbit
USA Eeprom - 64 kbit 256 Mbit
3922 Mon Coach Personnel - Mes Recettes Plaisir et Ligne (DSi Enhanced) France Eeprom - 64 kbit 1024 Mbit