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[soco]

I know. I'm just starting to read the thread from the starts. Honestly I've been waiting for the first great 360 game to come out where the devs say DVD is too small.

Because it's been crazy to even hear people think DVD would be enough for all games. But I've always respected the people that don't care about 2 disc. It's the people that think 2 disc aren't going to happen.

you kinda missed the boat on that too, since BD was released in Japan on 3 of them. Devs didn't even need to say it there. although, i guess you could argue that it's not "great"

besides, i'd imagine the argument was never that it'd be big enough for all games, but rather it'd be fine for the vast majority.

 

[kay]

Long thread is looooooooong.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Long thread is looooooooong.

Ack! My post got buried.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I personally didn't really feel that PS2s reduced fillrate, lack of discrete 5.1, and weak progressive scan support was 'enough' for last gen, but somehow I kept buying, playing, and loving lots of PS2 games.

There's way too much of trying to define a 'generation' based on specs (often cherrypicked by fan factions) when the business has never really worked that way.

 

[Orlics]

I personally didn't really feel that PS2s reduced fillrate, lack of discrete 5.1, and weak progressive scan support was 'enough' for last gen, but somehow I kept buying, playing, and loving lots of PS2 games.

There's way too much of trying to define a 'generation' based on specs (often cherrypicked by fan factions) when the business has never really worked that way.

Damn that reduced fillrate, always holding games back!

 

[RavenFox]

Like I said. By default it IS enough. If any next gen game exists on the format it IS enough, end of story. If Sony was serious about making sure developers of every stripe could fully utilize the strengths of a larger format, they would've made sure they launched at steamroller's pace and emerged as the defacto market leader because that is who dictates what is "enough" for a developer's needs. As it stands now, PS3 users have not displayed the same capability for supporting third party titles financially as the 360 userbase did in the same time frame, indisputably. Thus, DVD-9 will be enough for the entirety of this generation because 80% of the time (at least) developers will be focusing on the platform and the userbase most likely to give them money.

Your argument hold no merit. If Sony wanted to ....dude SOny before they launched they said every game of their's has to be on BluRay. How did they not prepare for utilization of the format? DVD-9 will not be enough for this generation or the next. Devs are griping and they have to cut back to get their games to fit. If you dont consider that an issue then considered me baffled.
360 is not a market leader. Yeah they have more system out there but they havent taken over anything with Sony clipping their heels and Nintendo rolling hard. Also your joking about Sony financing third party titles right?
The media's hate for Sony must have clouded your brain because the damn machine was on ebay for 6,000 and up plus I saw people with beds in line waiting for the damn thing. Its the price that made users sit on the fence and dropping it to $499 helped alot. First time Ive seen it sold out at Best Buy since launch a couple of days ago where Im at. Should have more in stock now.

I personally didn't really feel that PS2s reduced fillrate, lack of discrete 5.1, and weak progressive scan support was 'enough' for last gen, but somehow I kept buying, playing, and loving lots of PS2 games.

There's way too much of trying to define a 'generation' based on specs (often cherrypicked by fan factions) when the business has never really worked that way.

Actually it was the PS2's superior fillrate that made games like MGS2 look like how it did.

I know some mentals in here will think this post is some kind of 360 bash. Its far from it.

 

[rs7k]

Your argument hold no merit. If Sony wanted to ....dude SOny before they launched they said every game of their's has to be on BluRay. How did they not prepare for utilization of the format? DVD-9 will not be enough for this generation or the next. Devs are griping and they have to cut back to get their games to fit. If you dont consider that an issue then considered me baffled.
360 is not a market leader. Yeah they have more system out there but they havent taken over anything with Sony clipping their heels and Nintendo rolling hard. Also your joking about Sony financing third party titles right?
The media's hate for Sony must have clouded your brain because the damn machine was on ebay for 6,000 and up plus I saw people with beds in line waiting for the damn thing. Its the price that made users sit on the fence and dropping it to $499 helped alot. First time Ive seen it sold out at Best Buy since launch a couple of days ago where Im at. Should have more in stock now.


Actually it was the PS2's superior fillrate that made games like MGS2 look like how it did.

So because 360 is not market leader (which it is), devs will go nuts and make their games impossible for DVD?

 

[RavenFox]

So because 360 is not market leader (which it is), devs will go nuts and make their games impossible for DVD?

OMG what is the problem? Some of the games are already TOO much for DVD. Thats why they have to scale things back. I mean really it says it in plain text in the OP quote. I didnt make it up. Also PGR4 is still coming out right?

 

[InterMoniker]

Your argument hold no merit. If Sony wanted to ....dude SOny before they launched they said every game of their's has to be on BluRay. How did they not prepare for utilization of the format? DVD-9 will not be enough for this generation or the next. Devs are griping and they have to cut back to get their games to fit. If you dont consider that an issue then considered me baffled.
360 is not a market leader. Yeah they have more system out there but they havent taken over anything with Sony clipping their heels and Nintendo rolling hard. Also your joking about Sony financing third party titles right?
The media's hate for Sony must have clouded your brain because the damn machine was on ebay for 6,000 and up plus I saw people with beds in line waiting for the damn thing. Its the price that made users sit on the fence and dropping it to $499 helped alot. First time Ive seen it sold out at Best Buy since launch a couple of days ago where Im at. Should have more in stock now.


Actually it was the PS2's superior fillrate that made games like MGS2 look like how it did.

I know some mentals in here will think this post is some kind of 360 bash. Its far from it.

Nice post RavenFox!

 

[Son of Godzilla]

All this talk about pre-baked lighting taking up space has me worried that Smash Brothers Brawl might be multi-disc. I'd hate to have to swap discs mid fight because of which pokemon was spawned.

 

[tribal24]

All this talk about pre-baked lighting taking up space has me worried that Smash Brothers Brawl might be multi-disc. I'd hate to have to swap discs mid fight because of which pokemon was spawned.

:lol :lol just walking by *runs*

 

[CrushDance]

WOW! oO

have a nice trip

How so what he said makes sense. It was a part of MS's strategy.

YOU PEOPLE!

Edit: oh you mean the money symbol ^^"

 

[cgcg]

Just curious do you X360 fans even know that the X360 can't even do DVD9 in term of game storage? I see DVD9 get thrown around left and right. It can only use 7 GB for game usage so it's actually a step backwards from last-gen. I think what some of you are trying to say is *DVD7* is enough for games and DVD9 is not needed. Right?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Just curious do you X360 fans even know that the X360 can't even do DVD9 in term of game storage? I see DVD9 get thrown around left and right. It can only use 7 GB for game usage so it's actually a step backwards from last-gen. I think what some of you are trying to say is *DVD7* is enough for games and DVD9 is not needed. Right?

I think that was mentioned twelve or so pages ago.

Oh and cgcg I checked your post history. Welcome to the ignorelist.

 

[artredis1980]

Just curious do you X360 fans even know that the X360 can't even do DVD9 in term of game storage? I see DVD9 get thrown around left and right. It can only use 7 GB for game usage so it's actually a step backwards from last-gen. I think what some of you are trying to say is *DVD7* is enough for games and DVD9 is not needed. Right?

intentions traced

 

[Nolan.]

Deejay what have you done?.

Spoiler

I couldn't resist coming back

 

[crazyscreenwriter]

Can we please just stop? MS isn't going to change to an HD-DVD storage scheme anytime soon. And these threads with "DVD Size is limiting ..." are really just a stealth troll for another other, third place system.

 

[Speevy]

There's not a DVD on the planet that has a whole 9 GB of storage.

360 has 7.05 because it uses part of its already limited disc space for security, Wii has 4.7, PS3 has whatever Blu-Ray holds, 25, 50, 100.

 

[itsgreen]

Who needs 8 city's anyway? You can only drive one at a time.

Spoiler

it is true :lol

 

[crazyscreenwriter]

There's not a DVD on the planet that has a whole 9 GB of storage.

360 has 7.05 because it uses part of its already limited disc space for security, Wii has 4.7, PS3 has whatever Blu-Ray holds, 25, 50, 100.

And BR also has a certain space allocated to security as well.

 

[soco]

Actually it was the PS2's superior fillrate that made games like MGS2 look like how it did.

superior to what, exactly? last set of specs i checked gave the original xbox the upper hand on fill-rate. maybe i had the wrong source though.

 

[MCD]

DVD13 confirmed.

 

[cgcg]

Yes DVD9 is 8.5 GB so that's almost a 18% reduction in storage space for games.

Last gen systems probably has space dedicted to security as well but I don't think it's anywhere near 1.5 GB. It would be good if we have numbers for those systems.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

for those of you who say 7 gb is not enough for video games how does 96 kb sound?

It all depends on how the game is designed.

 

[DrXym]

I love how people think BluRay suddenly means all 20 hour games become 40 hour games and all 100 hour games become 200 hours.

R* is really upset they didn't get to create twice the content and charge you the same price. What a bummer.

Strawman.

People who point out DVD-9 is not enough, are just worried that games will be gimped or chopped down to fit the format. Devs may originally have planned that 20 hour game to be 23 hours but had to cut levels or other content to make it fit. Or as in PGR's case, chopped day / night courses because they couldn't pre-render them.

It should be obvious that those space issues are far more pressing in next gen consoles when data - textures, sounds, models, cutscenes etc. may occupy 4-10x as much space as previous gen but there is less than < 2x the space to work with.

Now personally I have no issue with those kind of choices if they affect the 360 only. But I don't want to see PS3 titles gimped for the sake of DVD-9.

 

[bishoptl]

I guess bishoptl left as soon as Megatron showed up.

Some of us have work to do, y'know

 

[Speevy]

Some of us have work to do, y'know

Ouch!

(I work too, and was joking)

 

[itsgreen]

Some of us have work to do, y'know

I want to say 'Yeah some of us, but what did you do?'. But I am not going to.

Spoiler

don't want to anger him

 

[Quazar]

My quote beats your quote. And because of that I'm a ****ing expert in any field.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Reminds me of last gens dreamcast superfans. "GD-ROM is plenty of space!, not as much duplicate data, lazy devs, ect...."

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

If developers are truly gimping PS3 releases due to the 360 I'm sure they'll get called out for it eventually.

Until then...

(And yes I think DVD size limitation is an issue but until something serious happens that actually makes me give a shit about what kind of disc is in my system then I'll gladly step up and take notice)

 

[MercuryLS]

Reminds me of last gens dreamcast superfans. "GD-ROM is plenty of space!, not as much duplicate data, lazy devs, ect...."

There's a big difference as DC died soon after PS2 came out. X360 is a major player and is the base platform for most 3rd party titles. If DC was a major player last gen devs would have made games with GD-ROM's in mind and ported to other systems.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Your argument hold no merit. If Sony wanted to ....dude SOny before they launched they said every game of their's has to be on BluRay. How did they not prepare for utilization of the format? DVD-9 will not be enough for this generation or the next. Devs are griping and they have to cut back to get their games to fit. If you dont consider that an issue then considered me baffled.
360 is not a market leader. Yeah they have more system out there but they havent taken over anything with Sony clipping their heels and Nintendo rolling hard. Also your joking about Sony financing third party titles right?
The media's hate for Sony must have clouded your brain because the damn machine was on ebay for 6,000 and up plus I saw people with beds in line waiting for the damn thing. Its the price that made users sit on the fence and dropping it to $499 helped alot. First time Ive seen it sold out at Best Buy since launch a couple of days ago where Im at. Should have more in stock now.

You're talking about what Sony required for their system. Regardless, multiplatform devs today, right now, are creating next gen games that fit on DVD-9. It is "enough".

 

[KTallguy]

And these threads with "DVD Size is limiting ..." are really just a stealth troll for another other, third place system.

Maybe making a thread based on it is trolling, but if you don't think DVDs will limit the size of games on Xbox 360... then I don't know what to say.

Developers will work with limitations, but they'll shine if some of those limitations are removed, right?

 

[Metalmurphy]

You're talking about what Sony required for their system. Regardless, multiplatform devs today, right now, are creating next gen games that fit on DVD-9. It is "enough".

Hello? This comment from Ben is proof enough that it ISN'T! Just because they HAVE to settle with DVD doesn't mean its enough.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Reminds me of last gens dreamcast superfans. "GD-ROM is plenty of space!, not as much duplicate data, lazy devs, ect...."

(360fans == Dreamcastfanslol)
You are the 3rd player to cast this spell

 

[Mustaphadamus]

You're talking about what Sony required for their system. Regardless, multiplatform devs today, right now, are creating next gen games that fit on DVD-9. It is "enough".

blue dragon is 2 disc, no?

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I'm sure things will change once third-party PS3 games start outselling third-party 360 games.

 

[Flo_Evans]

There's a big difference as DC died soon after PS2 came out. X360 is a major player and is the base platform for most 3rd party titles. If DC was a major player last gen devs would have made games with GD-ROM's in mind and ported to other systems.

OK then it reminds me of cube fans! (keep in mind I had both a cube and a dreamcast). What you say is true however, 360 being the most successful 'next-gen' console so far means that games will be designed to its spec, limited or not. What worries me a little is that if the PS3 continues on its path, all that extra space is a moot point because no publisher in their right mind would pay a dev to use all that space on a failing system.

(360fans == Dreamcastfanslol)
You are the 3rd player to cast this spell

hmm I am a dreamcast and a 360 fan so... yeah? :lol

 

[MCD]

blue dragon is 2 disc, no?

3, but that's RPG, no issue here.

 

[itsgreen]

You're talking about what Sony required for their system. Regardless, multiplatform devs today, right now, are creating next gen games that fit on DVD-9. It is "enough".

But if they had the choice? Lets be honest, they have to think in DVD9 because they need money, and 360 = money. If they had the choice, they would use less compression and bigger textures (and sorts). Also DVD9 is hurting 360 because of this compression. I believe 1 of the 3 cores is mostly used for decompressing archives.

Anyhow, MS could not have included a HDDVD drive without making the console 699 at launch. MS aimed for a launch window in late 05, with a cost window of 450-550$ with a retail price of 399$. They could not have made the console we know as 360 without DVD9.

I am still betting on 'install on drive options for 360'. Copy disc 2 and 3 to the hard drive, play with disc 1.

 

[Mustaphadamus]

3, but that's RPG, no issue here.

jrpgs are usually multiple discs? ( i really don't know, I never played one)

 

[KTallguy]

jrpgs are usually multiple discs? ( i really don't know, I never played one)

In the PS1 era, yes. Some PS2 RPGs had them also (Shadow Hearts 2).

 

[Speevy]

jrpgs are usually multiple discs? ( i really don't know, I never played one)

-Tales of Symphonia
-Baten Kaitos
-Star Ocean 3
-Shadow Hearts: Covenant


Those are 4 that I can name. However, most of them probably fit on DVD last gen.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

blue dragon is 2 disc, no?

3. Gears of War is 1. Bioshock is 1. Crackdown is 1. Oblivion is 1.

Would developers like more space? I'm sure they'd love it. But clearly DVD-9, based on the existence of these single disc games, is enough to deliver a next gen experience.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

Don't forget Xenosaga Episode III.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

Reminds me of last gens dreamcast superfans. "GD-ROM is plenty of space!, not as much duplicate data, lazy devs, ect...."

Reminds me of last gens PS2 casual fans. "Oh no, can't win a feature checklist jerkoffathon on the interweb, let me console myself by taking a bath with all these awesome games".

 

[MCD]

jrpgs are usually multiple discs? ( i really don't know, I never played one)

Since FF7 (PS1, 1997).

they are multiple discs because in each disc you have to duplicate the same data in every disc (town A should be in every disc...etc).

you can get rid of the data by blowing up some town or something, lol.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Reminds me of last gens PS2 casual fans. "Oh no, can't win a feature checklist jerkoffathon on the interweb, let me console myself by taking a bath with all these awesome games".

Pretty much.

 

[Mustaphadamus]

In the PS1 era, yes. Some PS2 RPGs had them also (Shadow Hearts 2).

I sold my ps2 after 6 months (I was a xbox1 fan to the core) so I never got to see much of the jrpgs

-Tales of Symphonia
-Baten Kaitos
-Star Ocean 3
-Shadow Hearts: Covenant


Those are 4 that I can name. However, most of them probably fit on DVD last gen.

these are from which system? ps1?

3. Gears of War is 1. Bioshock is 1. Crackdown is 1. Oblivion is 1.

Would developers like more space? I'm sure they'd love it. But clearly DVD-9, based on the existence of these single disc games, is enough to deliver a next gen experience.

true say,

only argument I can see, is those games are the first outing for those developers on the 360. I would imagine the next go round they will come to terms with the hardware and push it even further and as a result may require more space (this is only me guessing)

I don't think many discs are a big deal in my opinion. I mean game says put in second disc and you hope your lazy @ss up off the sofa and throw it in. Now if you had to rotate between the two discs several times through out the game. now THAT would be annoying.