DWeek: Are video games inherently sexist? Devs discuss. Also Spyro is sexist #SheilaGate.

Jun 6, 2015
1,540
412
335
#1
Female game makers are also slowly making their mark on the industry, with 22% of game makers from around the world identifying as female, according to a survey by the International Game Developers Association conducted in 2015.

The number of female protagonists in games still lags behind the abundance of male ones. Many children in the late 1990s played Pokemon Red, Blue and Yellow on the Gameboy Colour, with gameplay centred around a male avatar.
Even non-human characters are often hit with “girly” stereotypes; a recent redesign of Sheila, a female kangaroo in the new Spyro Reignited Trilogy game, gives the character a nipped-in waist, glamorous eyelashes and a new hairdo. This went on to spark a social media backlash with critics questioning why a cartoon kangaroo needed to look “sexy”.

We asked designers and others in the gaming world their thoughts about the representation of women in video games

Jasmine Idun Isdrake, creative director at Playcentric Studios and founder at game innovation hub Collaboratory
Still I can count these on both hands and compared to male characters, the gap is huge. There are few LGBTQ+* characters in games, too. Art house and indie games are usually more diverse and investigate subjects like sexism. One cool example is Nicki Homaj where the player wears a pink wig and high heels with embedded sensors and responds to sexist comments by moving controllers.
but tacky, sexist scenes just makes me lose interest and respect for the developers. Diversity is about quality.

I feel no difference as a gamer playing muscular male Kratos in God of War or my customised, old and wise female character in Bloodborne. I play to relax, get into a story world and feel a flow in movement and slashing of monsters, because everything is well-designed. As a game developer, diversity and inclusion is always at the core, and that work never ends if we want to keep up quality in our industry.”
For an apparently modern industry, much of gaming puts women and men into alarmingly traditional roles: powerful hunter-gatherer man, scantily-clad doe-eyed sexy woman. It’s part of the retrograde projection of gender that’s afflicting the music industry at the moment too. Does it matter? You bet it does! If we perpetuate distorted stereotypes through entertainment it has a fundamental impact on progress in the real world, especially on young people’s aspirations and self-esteem.
You know for a group talking about inclusion and diversity, I notice these articles almost never mention Black peo- LINE CENSORED FOR DIVERSITY.

Also poor Spyro. First Skylanders and now a sexist game correction. Another loss to Crash. Cocoa Bandicoot #imwithher

Oh, also for clarification its 16 or 17% not 22. See the "identifying" part inflates the percentage. Hopefully no one is offended by me pointing that out. Then again, a group would be offended if I didn't either. Can't really win here.

Also diversity COULD mean quality, if it wasn't forced, because most forced diversity games suck and have a bad track record. Maybe some of these blue haired girls taking odd edgy pictures should sit back and reflect.

Now where did I put my Sheila the Kangaroo wall poster.....

https://www.designweek.co.uk/issues...-designers-and-game-makers-share-their-views/
 

AV

Gold Member
May 31, 2018
1,379
1,916
355
#2
  • AV

    AV

Many children in the late 1990s played Pokemon Red, Blue and Yellow on the Gameboy Colour, with gameplay centred around a male avatar.
Lol what the fuck? Many children in 2000 also played Pokémon Crystal on the Gameboy Colour, with gameplay centred around a male or female avatar.
 
Last edited:
Jan 8, 2019
87
100
160
#3
You know what most of these articles never talk about? How many women actually prefer to have sexy characters. Outside of one, every other girl i've ever met in online games, dressed their characters in more sexualized ways than most guys did. Playing some f2p mmo's, i know some that wasted houndreds of dollars just trying to get a new shiny "bikini" armor, just because they wanted to look like that. They also had no problems playing with a male character, as long as they find them atractive.
 
Dec 3, 2018
1,670
2,903
230
#4
You know what? Fuck it. Yes. Video games are sexist. I've conceded the point. Now what is your plan to change this? What absurd lengths are you willing to go to in order to "fix" gaming? Censorship? Firing developers? Regulating content? Outlawing specific types of content? Because no matter how I look at it, it seems like the only solutions available are grotesquely draconian and outright unconstitutional...

...and that's assuming the premise is true, which it isn't. The fact that it isn't true make this line of reasoning even more outrageous and absurd. I mean, I don't think anybody is willing to answer "Video games are sexist, now what?" because it would expose their true intentions. What kind of answer could they possibly have for "Video games aren't sexist, but I want them to be because it gives me power and control, now what?"
 
Apr 18, 2018
7,770
12,377
555
USA
dunpachi.com
#5
You know what? Fuck it. Yes. Video games are sexist. I've conceded the point. Now what is your plan to change this? What absurd lengths are you willing to go to in order to "fix" gaming? Censorship? Firing developers? Regulating content? Outlawing specific types of content? Because no matter how I look at it, it seems like the only solutions available are grotesquely draconian and outright unconstitutional...

...and that's assuming the premise is true, which it isn't. The fact that it isn't true make this line of reasoning even more outrageous and absurd. I mean, I don't think anybody is willing to answer "Video games are sexist, now what?" because it would expose their true intentions. What kind of answer could they possibly have for "Video games aren't sexist, but I want them to be because it gives me power and control, now what?"
You won't get any plan on how to resolve it, but you'll get plenty of ideas on how to change the individual symptoms they view as problematic.

Change is virtuous in the eyes of an ideologue who lacks all self-confidence and direction in life.

“people with a sense of fulfillment think it is a good world and would like to conserve it as it is, while the frustrated favor radical change.”

However, Change without a plan is slavery. What exactly is the change meant to bring about? When it's all said and done, how will your ideal world look?

Well, that's besides the point. Upheaval, fighting "the man" while still paying the Corp, changing things for the sake of change. These are core tenants of the ideology in question. It is religious fervor. It is "faith by works", a demonstration that they are really, really, truly devoted to "the cause", and by showing their devotion they will be saved.
 

AV

Gold Member
May 31, 2018
1,379
1,916
355
#8
  • AV

    AV

Oh my god we're applying sexism and pollitical correctness to a fucking cartoon kangaroo now?
The best part is, it's not even why most people were bugged by the model change. It's because they put her in a stereotypical Australian outfit when the whole joke is that she's an Austrian Kangaroo who is constantly mistaken.
 
Mar 23, 2018
847
488
250
#14
Video games can be whatever you want them to be.

I was playing mmo's in the 90's with character create windows.

Selective vision is real with these people.

If it aint all female, fat and looks down on males it's input social media nut job slurs.
 
Likes: lock2k
Oct 17, 2011
8,840
609
635
#15
When they say sexist, what they mean is "not enough developers pander to my specific needs" . It's not about diversity, never was. If it was then they'd make more good games with a more diverse cast rather than constantly complaining not enough developers are doing it their way. This has, is and always will be about the controlling idealology. In order to continue control the issue must continue, If it we're solved, by say, creating more of the characters you'd like to see instead of telling others to do it, then the issue would be solved and the power would flow to other idealologies. This is also why something as silly as a cartoon kangaroo is even brought up. Very few paid any attention to it. Those who did whined on Twitter for a day and went about their business and eventually stopped caring. The issue has to seem larger than it really is. Indie developers have created many a game with a more diverse cast, anyone can join them in creating games like that, but instead of creating and inspiring, they want what's already established to change to suit their needs, this way, when people don't change their art for someone else, they still have their issue and controlling idealology.
 
May 16, 2005
1,258
305
1,155
germany
#16
Yeah, design week. A publication that was read by around 8000 people before it got turned into an online publication only. Linking it here probably got them the most readers since the 1990s :)
 
Nov 20, 2016
55
12
190
#18
What's wrong with sexist in games, what's the fucking deal.
It's fantasy platform where pixels are, so you and some fucker to say that it's not cool to write that scrips, or you should change it because we don like it.

I don't understand that why people and devs listen to those fucking fuckers!
 

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Mar 22, 2017
5,965
5,503
410
#22
I fucking hate, hate, HATE current western gaming culture, its becoming really obnoxious and down right suffocating. I hope it doesn't become to the point that Japanese developers no longer bother localizing their games because they don't want to bother with all that BS and If they do I wont blame them.
 
Last edited:
Oct 21, 2014
808
315
325
#25
The best part is, it's not even why most people were bugged by the model change. It's because they put her in a stereotypical Australian outfit when the whole joke is that she's an Austrian Kangaroo who is constantly mistaken.
Well then, chuck another shrimp on the barbie mate.
 
Likes: JareBear
Oct 25, 2018
296
193
180
New Hampshire, USA
#33

Jasmine Idun Isdrake, creative director at Playcentric Studios and founder at game innovation hub Collaboratory






You know for a group talking about inclusion and diversity, I notice these articles almost never mention Black peo- LINE CENSORED FOR DIVERSITY.

Also poor Spyro. First Skylanders and now a sexist game correction. Another loss to Crash. Cocoa Bandicoot #imwithher

Oh, also for clarification its 16 or 17% not 22. See the "identifying" part inflates the percentage. Hopefully no one is offended by me pointing that out. Then again, a group would be offended if I didn't either. Can't really win here.

Also diversity COULD mean quality, if it wasn't forced, because most forced diversity games suck and have a bad track record. Maybe some of these blue haired girls taking odd edgy pictures should sit back and reflect.

Now where did I put my Sheila the Kangaroo wall poster.....

https://www.designweek.co.uk/issues...-designers-and-game-makers-share-their-views/
Care to give an example of “forced” diversity?
 
Sep 26, 2009
11,821
381
725
St. Louis
#35
People making this point completely ignore/overlook the casual gaming market. The majority of protagonists in those games are female, because the majority of people buying casual game are female.

Funny how that works.
 
Jan 31, 2018
1,085
557
315
#36
I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone, but is this whole "identifying as X" thing going to really stick? I really, really don't like this. You are what you are. You're a boy, a girl, a trans, gay, bi or lesbian....there are proper description for all these genders so why is it necessary for us to "Identify" as anything? Are we really just going to continue to allow us to lie to ourselves because its more comfortable? You can't bend the rules of nature. Male dogs don't identify as a male dog...they ARE male dogs...it's just the truth. I really feel there's something innately dishonest about this kind of phrasing. It really bothers me.

I'm sorry I'm completely off topic in a way, I'm not talking about the industry or how many male to female protagonists there are in games, but I feel that this...constant need to balance the scales for the sake of enable someone's safe space is unnecessary. Who is really counting honestly? I'm all for females in the gaming industry. I'm all for female protagonists. I'm not for the idea that this needs to be a collective shift resulting from social pressure of a vocal minority.

Look, I'm 37 and I'm black. I've lived almost 4 decades experiencing non-representation in many forms of media. From the Black Barbie being the "bad doll" all the way to the "token black guy" on tv shows, to blackface, you name it. The fact of the matter is if I wanted it so bad, I should have done something about it myself and not try to force feed my blackness down other's throats for the sake of me feeling better about myself. I'm too fuckin' awesome to lower myself to these tactics.
 
Aug 25, 2018
640
727
230
#37
I'm sorry if I'm offending anyone, but is this whole "identifying as X" thing going to really stick? I really, really don't like this. You are what you are. You're a boy, a girl, a trans, gay, bi or lesbian....there are proper description for all these genders so why is it necessary for us to "Identify" as anything? Are we really just going to continue to allow us to lie to ourselves because its more comfortable? You can't bend the rules of nature. Male dogs don't identify as a male dog...they ARE male dogs...it's just the truth. I really feel there's something innately dishonest about this kind of phrasing. It really bothers me.

I'm sorry I'm completely off topic in a way, I'm not talking about the industry or how many male to female protagonists there are in games, but I feel that this...constant need to balance the scales for the sake of enable someone's safe space is unnecessary. Who is really counting honestly? I'm all for females in the gaming industry. I'm all for female protagonists. I'm not for the idea that this needs to be a collective shift resulting from social pressure of a vocal minority.

Look, I'm 37 and I'm black. I've lived almost 4 decades experiencing non-representation in many forms of media. From the Black Barbie being the "bad doll" all the way to the "token black guy" on tv shows, to blackface, you name it. The fact of the matter is if I wanted it so bad, I should have done something about it myself and not try to force feed my blackness down other's throats for the sake of me feeling better about myself. I'm too fuckin' awesome to lower myself to these tactics.
You probably are Awesome. But you’re also likely a normal person, not an attention seeking loony.
 
Last edited:
Jan 31, 2018
1,085
557
315
#38
You probably are Awesome. But you’re also likely a normal person, not an attention seeking loony.
Truth. I don't know about me being normal...but I appreciate the gesture. I mean how thin skinned do you have to be to feel offended that there aren't enough girl protags in games. I play with females in games all the time. Tomb Raider series, Nier, AC Odyssey, Freja is my favorite character in Phantom Dust. I was FemShep in Mass Effect 1,2 and 3. Dishonored 2 is 2 girls to 1 guy protag. I beat dishonored 2 with the princess first. I mean really...they don't want equality, they want dominance thinly veiled as equality.
 
Jan 30, 2019
195
108
170
#41
please don't link any of that shit to my pokemon gameboy games thank you.
No, we're wrong to play that game ages ago when we were a kid and we should feel bad. It was never about catching pokemons and having battles, it was about the main character gender and nothing else.

/s
 
Jan 29, 2019
106
55
170
#42
"Female game makers are also slowly making their mark on the industry, with 22% of game makers from around the world identifying as female "
-- So to raise the number of females in the company ask Joe and Paul in the corner to self identify as women on the survey, that will help us show progress, if they visit we will ask them to put on wigs and dresses!

And this gem of hypocrisy:
"I feel no difference as a gamer playing muscular male Kratos in God of War or my customised, old and wise female character in Bloodborne. I play to relax, get into a story world and feel a flow in movement and slashing of monsters, because everything is well-designed. As a game developer, diversity and inclusion is always at the core, and that work never ends if we want to keep up quality in our industry.”
-- Good, if it makes no difference for you, why do you spend so much time trying to impose your choices on everybody else.

My impression is that these people want to push themselves in the industry as consultants, they go after almost random things, somehow the press reacts to it, and gaming studios hire them, or fire their best people over the fully made controversy (which is why we don't take the press seriously anymore)... in that kind of case, ideology is just a facade, it's about power and control.

She makes a ton of assertions, without any argument, and we are supposed to respond rationally, when in fact the statements are empty shells:
"For an apparently modern industry, much of gaming puts women and men into alarmingly traditional roles: powerful hunter-gatherer man, scantily-clad doe-eyed sexy woman. It’s part of the retrograde projection of gender that’s afflicting the music industry at the moment too. Does it matter? You bet it does! If we perpetuate distorted stereotypes through entertainment it has a fundamental impact on progress in the real world, especially on young people’s aspirations and self-esteem. "
--- We have good reason to believe this is the other way around, video games are a product of the observation of the world people who build them saw (for better or for worst). I'm all for people to play the role they want, live in a more "traditional" way, or completely reverse the gender roles, however, I don't think that the traditional roles are worse, in fact there are good reasons to think they lead to better outcomes than the current society we have that has a suicide and depression epidemic... I mean, after a while it's not a breakthrough anymore to put a female in a soldier outfit and make her act as if all men ever did was put her down at every occasion.

I never minded that Samus as female, nor did I care when I though that I played as Zelda in the Zelda games, it's not as if gamers were that sexists to begin with, we just have been tared by a group of activists, which is completely different, now they have jobs in big companies (EA, Activision, UbiSoft, etc.) and they derail development, ruin all games they touch.
 
Likes: Saruhashi
Nov 19, 2006
5,301
1,214
995
46
West Springfield, MA
www.youtube.com
#43
There’s no hope for modern video gaming. It’s all done, thanks to the rise of outrage culture and gutless gamemakers who pander to every sniveling whiner who takes to social media with an axe to grind.

It’s not about making video games anymore. It’s about making them as safe as possible so as not to piss anyone off.

— Gotta have a female, or else
— Gotta have multiple races represented, or else
— Gotta have LGBTQ representation, or else
— No female nudity or sexual situations, or else
— Watch that violence, or else

Fuck it all. Let it burn, I say. Nothing of value would really be lost.
 
Likes: Saruhashi
Oct 25, 2018
296
193
180
New Hampshire, USA
#44
There’s no hope for modern video gaming. It’s all done, thanks to the rise of outrage culture and gutless gamemakers who pander to every sniveling whiner who takes to social media with an axe to grind.

It’s not about making video games anymore. It’s about making them as safe as possible so as not to piss anyone off.

— Gotta have a female, or else
— Gotta have multiple races represented, or else
— Gotta have LGBTQ representation, or else
— No female nudity or sexual situations, or else
— Watch that violence, or else

Fuck it all. Let it burn, I say. Nothing of value would really be lost.
Lmao

Is this a meme / satire?
 
Oct 25, 2018
296
193
180
New Hampshire, USA
#46
No. It’s a legit rant. I’d be fine with letting it all burn to the ground, as I’m tired of the bullshit and whining that ejects from what was once a fun hobby. Now everyone is offended by something. Shit’s not fun anymore.
Really?

To each their own, I’ve been gaming about 30 years and feel games are better than ever

So many awesome AAA and indie releases coming out constantly in all genres

If for some reason you have an issue with people wanting more diversity in games is there a reason you let it affect your overall opinion on games?

Like what’s an example of “outrage culture” actually affecting the games you play.

Maybe just spend less time on forums or reading games sites for a bit?
 
Jan 11, 2019
302
589
230
#47
You know what? Fuck it. Yes. Video games are sexist. I've conceded the point. Now what is your plan to change this? What absurd lengths are you willing to go to in order to "fix" gaming? Censorship? Firing developers? Regulating content? Outlawing specific types of content? Because no matter how I look at it, it seems like the only solutions available are grotesquely draconian and outright unconstitutional...

...and that's assuming the premise is true, which it isn't. The fact that it isn't true make this line of reasoning even more outrageous and absurd. I mean, I don't think anybody is willing to answer "Video games are sexist, now what?" because it would expose their true intentions. What kind of answer could they possibly have for "Video games aren't sexist, but I want them to be because it gives me power and control, now what?"
/THREAD.
 
Oct 25, 2018
296
193
180
New Hampshire, USA
#48
You know what? Fuck it. Yes. Video games are sexist. I've conceded the point. Now what is your plan to change this? What absurd lengths are you willing to go to in order to "fix" gaming? Censorship? Firing developers? Regulating content? Outlawing specific types of content? Because no matter how I look at it, it seems like the only solutions available are grotesquely draconian and outright unconstitutional...

...and that's assuming the premise is true, which it isn't. The fact that it isn't true make this line of reasoning even more outrageous and absurd. I mean, I don't think anybody is willing to answer "Video games are sexist, now what?" because it would expose their true intentions. What kind of answer could they possibly have for "Video games aren't sexist, but I want them to be because it gives me power and control, now what?"
Well you can start by hiring more women into prominent roles on the development and publishing side of games. So projects aren’t all being lead from one gender / race and naturally you will be creating more diverse content

Look at Hollywood’s output compared to even just 10-15 years ago

That’s a good start

There will never not be a deluge of content that still caters to the straight white male gamer, never understood this fragile snowflake mentality that “all the SJWs are coming for my games”
 
Feb 16, 2019
131
129
105
#49
Over the past two years, more than 40% of all game players in Great Britain have been reported to be women
Why do they still push this fake news bullshit? Playing candy crush for 5 minutes does not a gamer make.

One cool example is Nicki Homaj where the player wears a pink wig and high heels with embedded sensors and responds to sexist comments by moving controllers.
Because when I sit down to play games, this is what I want to do. These people have a screw loose. Or several.
 
Likes: dionysus
Feb 16, 2018
138
138
180
#50
Well you can start by hiring more women into prominent roles on the development and publishing side of games. So projects aren’t all being lead from one gender / race and naturally you will be creating more diverse content

Look at Hollywood’s output compared to even just 10-15 years ago

That’s a good start

There will never not be a deluge of content that still caters to the straight white male gamer, never understood this fragile snowflake mentality that “all the SJWs are coming for my games”
How bout you hire the best Person from all the ones who applied ?
Diverse Content ?
What the hell does this even mean, show me just one example in Games and i show you an Character who isnt an Great Female Lead, but a character who happens to be Female.
And Hollywood ?
Have you seen the ammount of shit in the last 10-15 Years ?
Ghostbusters, Oceans 8, Star Wars ?
Thats the kind of Female diverse Representation you want ?
 
Last edited: