You've had the answer all along. The most honest review...is in you.
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EA and YouTube producers seemingly broke FTC guidelines with Battlefield 4 promotion
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
You've had the answer all along. The most honest review...is in you.
i hate bees
Member
That was captured from a DICE event where it had all been setup ahead of time, he wasn't just sitting at home remotely connected to the regular MP servers - hence it pretty much worked fine. Get your tin foil hat off.
I wish I could get paid for being excited about that game too. tbh
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
All of those BF4 videos I watched were from a single event? If so I didn't know this.
BumblebeeCody
Member
It's always the people who play CoD and Battlefield too. Which the increases my respect for people like AngryJoe/TB etc.
Amen.
SolidSnakex
Member
Or FIFA. I remember someone mentioning not too long ago that EA targeted FIFA LP's and brought them to their office to play the game early and give impressions on their channel. Afterwards those people stopped criticizing the series.
i hate bees
Member
The PS4 'reveal' videos were from a DICE hosted event.
jacksepticeye
Member
Because in general they're a source of honest opinions on games and you can tell what they're thinking about a game through live commentaries
This is all still true for the majority of them. Some however do have paid promotions to not talk bad about games and it's kinda lame
robertsan21
Member
Hope these youtubers loose all fans! Gaf should ban all videos from these YouTube channels like they do for various websites
B_Spooky13
Member
So you're saying that these Youtubers knew ahead of time that the game was broken and just said nothing about it? They knew as soon as anyone who bought the game at launch. I don't go watch their videos because they "review" games, I go there to watch them play games and have fun. Who cares if they didn't state the obvious about a game that, most people who watch those channel, knew that the game was broken. These guys aren't reviewers of games... If anything be mad at all the review sites that gave a broken game 4 out of 5 stars or more.
I make 500$ a week working in a factory.. But you know what.. money is money. They're not hurting anyone.. they're not stealing.. They're just playing the game. So what if they got paid to do something that they probably would do in the first place. The worst thing I think I heard any of them say is "yeah it has it's problems, but DICE is working on it. Still a fun game".
jacksepticeye
Member
That's a bit harsh. What they did was shady but the embargo for it has been up for a while and they've since given their honest criticism of the game. lvlcap and jack in particular tore the game a new one from time to time and jack even helped promote the finding and documenting of glitches
Not only that but Jack alone brought the entire BF community together searching for the Easter Eggs that were found and he was the one who started the searches.
They've done a lot of good for the game and provide some solid informational content on it. Especially jack and lvlcap
jacksepticeye
Member
It's not being prevented, stricter policies were just implemented. All of which has kind of blown over now after the rough start to the implementation passed.
But we don't know how much paid opinions are out there in this industry, this stuff could happen far more than we all imagine
But it is being prevented by those policies if ad revenue is involved, which is only consistent if the person presenting has something people find worthwhile. It didn't matter if that reaction has blown over. Publishers are preventing people from ad-profiting via a reputable stream, where the opinions expressed aren't controlled... But the bribed opinions are now on the rise.
The entire thing is publisher controlled!
Yes. I will buy a product in order to evaluate whether I should buy that product.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
I always think that this "try it yourself, don't let others decide" sentiment as silly. It's true I guess if you have unlimited amount of money that you can spend on games, if you can just say "meh" and throw a game away after you spend 40-60 bucks on it and buy the next one nilly willy that looks interesting.
That's the point of review: to allow us to decide whether we should spend money on a game or not. Not all of us have unlimited resources or disposable income that we can rely on to spend on games.
That's why this incident is so fucked up. Not only do the reviewers get their games for free, their "opinions" are manufactured too. They really don't give a shit about us, only dollars dollars dollars dollars.
Atraveller
Banned
If slapping random commentaries to gaming footage is you idea of decent, then yes, it is decent.
jacksepticeye
Member
I make videos on youtube and no publisher has stopped ad revenue on my 600+ videos. Nor other much much larger youtubers. They all still get their cut of ad revenue from their videos. Publishers haven't stopped or prevented that.
When the policies changed there was a bit of a bad spell where stuff was ID matched all over the place but that didn't last for long
Also do you have anything to back up the "bribed opinions are on the rise" claim? For all we know bribed opinions have always been there, just never exposed before.
Opinions, how do they work again?
Some opinions are good, some opinions are bad. Some people have opinions of opinions! Some people have opinions of opinions of opinions. And then some people try to use the line "It's an opinion!" as a cop out of an argument.
We're all aware how opinions work. Opinions vs. Facts is like a thing they teach you in 5th grade.
I'm glad that I'm not subscribed to any of these guys. Wow.
But I am subscribed to those two, though. They're great.
They won't be getting away from any bad publicity, though.
But I am subscribed to those two, though. They're great.
They won't be getting away from any bad publicity, though.
Better than nothing, which is what im responding to.
I do more playing than watching, these are the 2 i know of outside of the 3 in the OP.
90% of the footage of this game in commentaries IS random commentary over their game.
What I'm saying is that you stating that you, me and everyone else on this board would accept money from a company like EA to fuck over other gamers, because hey, "everyone likes money", is really offensive.
I don't care how much you make.
I've been offered money to play the corporate shill for certain companies related to gaming (not directly though) and I can honestly say that I have never taken a single cent from them, nor endorsed a product in any way shape or form of my own free will that I didn't enjoy myself and thought others might enjoy as well.
Not to mention how "they might needed a new pc" has nothing to do with the topic besides trying to make it sound like it wasn't a douchebag move to begin with.
Yeah, the reviewers that gave BF4 a near perfect score should be ashamed of themselves as well, not to mention be accountable for the enormous amount of people who bought this piece of shit at full price on launch due to their reviews.
But just because these Youtube shills don't strictly review these games doesn't mean that they can wash their hands clean of this shit. Far from it.
Before the launch of the game, any media being released was so carefully controlled that most people who bought the game believed it would be a top product that would perhaps have some balance issues and a couple of bugs like all MP games and especially BF tends to do. But certainly not in the way this broken mess of a game turned out to be.
They agreed to take money from EA to keep silent on any problems they experienced during their play sessions, fully knowing that thousands upon thousands of people were going to see their videos and buy the game thanks to them.
If you don't think that's a scumbag move on their part, and that this is something you, me and everyone else on here would do in an instant, then I've got some shocking news for you.
Downplaying this whole ordeal and defending these assholes is just as bad from where I'm standing.
B_Spooky13
Member
You are taking this waaay to seriously.. I'll be the first to admit that EA is a shady and knew that BF4 was riddled with problems. But to go as far as calling these guys "assholes and scumbags" is a bit much... And keep making sound like these guys were told "hey this game is going to be broken when it comes out.. down play it." The only time these guy played the game before us was at conferences.
And also how did these guys "screw over" gamers? Did they make you buy the game? They didn't misinform people. They just didn't say anything bad about it... They also didn't Go get this game!! BEST GAME EVER!!! Who Cares? And now that the embargo is lifted?? Are they tearing the game down?? No they're trying to help to fix it. Anyone who played the game once knew it was broken.. Why is it these guys duty to inform the masses/?? Broken or not the game is still fun. The way I see it the guys just got free money for nothing.. Them not saying anything didn't change anything.. After the first day people were complaining about the game..
Oh yeah.. BF 4 released Oct 29.. this video of Lvlcap is on Nov 2 where he is talking about the issues BF4 is having.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vV3xUyfYQdI
X Factor talking about issues http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjBKoEN17lM
Matimi0 talking about the lag Oct 31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAXxeKXXVkA
Matimi0 Oct 29 talking about all the bugs [URL="http://youtu.be/in3d10Aacf8?t=7m27s"[/URL]
These guys have brought up the problems and issues.. I mean are you guys mad that they didn't rage about it?
I don't care if these guys are getting paid by EA or MS to shill. Go ahead and get your money. My issue is them pretending like they weren't paid when they were. They should have told their audience that the footage they were watching was in an EA controlled atmosphere and EA paid them to play it. The user can make up their mind as to whether they want to watch the video after that but they didn't do that probably b/c the user would call them sellouts or shills or whatever and not watch and that's the issue. Shill all you want for whatever company/product is paying you, just be upfront about it so I can make a decision on whether I like the content or not.
B_Spooky13
Member
Yeah I can see your point but at the same time how many gaming Youtubers do this with announcing that it's a controlled environment? (You'd be surprised at how many get paid from companies like this)
I find this like hotdogs or McNuggets... People will eat them but they don't wanna know what goes on behind the scenes. Probably throw up if I knew how those are made. I mean this is a common thing and people know it is but as soon as people find out somebody that does it.. They rage. And I honestly I don't know what people are talking about... LvlCap, Matimi0, XFactor all came out days after the launch and said that the game has numerous problems and bugs
LevelCap responded: Being Paid By EA: LevelCap's Response
He actually said this:
I was hoping for an apology or that he'd at least recognize how he could be viewed as having mislead gamers. He makes some good content, but the shilling for EA and stuff like Origin PC is a little over the top.
That's not the apology I was expecting, at best it paints him as an arrogant individual with the common sense of an ant.
B_Spooky13
Member
Honestly I don't see the big deal here. Maybe they should have disclosed that they got money from EA for like 3 videos that each of them have done.. But it's none of my business and I'm sure that's how they felt too. I mean half of the videos that they got paid for didn't even have commentary. They were just ask to not show bugs in the Pre-alpha/alpha/beta version of the game because it wasn't finished. I get that. And when the game did come out they did put it down for the bug and netcode issues. I don't feel lied to or deceived.. This is normal practice for YouTubers. In my previous posts I thought it was after the launch that this happened but it was a little bit before and after launch. I always figured that they got or could get money from EA.. I mean don't they even fly some of them to the shows so they can play? I mean I get why people are upset but really it's just a "eh" situation.
This is JackFrags response http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_4/comments/1vshrg/ea_paid_youtubers_for_showing_bf4_launch_in_a/cew5wvb?context=3
This is JackFrags response http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield_4/comments/1vshrg/ea_paid_youtubers_for_showing_bf4_launch_in_a/cew5wvb?context=3
What a horrid response. No accountability what-so-ever. If I had subbed to this channel I'd have un-subbed by now. Not interested in hearing the opinions of dishonest Tubers like this, especially when they din't even properly fess up when caught red handed.
At the very least at least he's mentioned his future vids will have full disclosure. No way of knowing if he'll follow through with that, but his reputation and with it, trust from his viewers is tarnished either way.
Looks like common sense and humility aren't strong among these youtubers.
B_Spooky13
Member
Yeah I guess they could have handled it better... but like I said before it's just a "eh" situation. I mean Boogie 2298 said he does it as long as the contract isn't to ridiculous. This is just a common thing on YouTube. I mean it is what it is. And honestly if I was those BF YouTubers I probably wouldn't give a good apology either when something that happens all the time on YouTube gets called out and now people are literally calling them every name in the book. And honestly I looked at a few of the videos that were "bought" and the don't seem any different than any other video that they have done. And they have called out the game when it was still broken after launch.
Jack Frags posted a video response. It is rather long at 34 minutes.
I don't know. I don't watch the videos from Jack and Frankie to make my mind up which games ill buy. I watch them to be entertained I like there content. Jack does nail it in his Response video when he says that he should have told his viewers that it was a Promotion.
Live and learn I Guess.
Live and learn I Guess.
TheContact
Member
Sellouts. Can't trust them anymore
Only half way through the vid, but I think they're missing the biggest point. The issue is not with being paid, it's that they're not disclosing they did. It doesn't matter whether Ronku told them to or not, it's just responsible and fair to your viewership to make it open. Thinking otherwise is just shady and deceitful. It's blatantly OBVIOUS that your viewers would want to know those details, and whether or not a particular video is paid for or not.
Add to that, whilst the FTC guidelines themselves are not legally enforceable, there are laws pertaining to them that are. So he is somewhat wrong about that.
EDIT: Also he is wrong about his viewers not wanting to know about glitches or issues in launch week. Absolutely false. His viewers are also potential buyers, they want to know if the game is working or not, and the reality of it is that the game was practically broken on launch, and people like JackFlags practically avoided covering that. Outside the odd comment or nitpick here and there, there was no proper coverage of these issues, and that's why many of his viewers feel even more done over.
Whether Jack wants to admit it or not, viewers DO buy the game based on his videos, and he needs to accept that, and that there is an element of responsibility associated. You post and cover the good and the bad, not just the good. Or the good with the most rare sprinklings of the bad.
He does address the fact that he should have disclosed it later in the vid.
But his response is basically, oh I didn't know I had to. I don't know anything about this stuff. They didn't ask me to disclose. But that's not good enough. It's common sense and basic morality that users would want to know this, and his excuse doesn't cut it. He does at least admit he fucked up and does sort of apologise, but still, the justifications are not with merit.
ACM v2.0SneakyStephan
Banned
Yes buy it blindly then decide if it's good or not! that'll show EA/MS
BumblebeeCody
Member
Ha.
I doubt for a fact that their opinion is genuine. There's a reason why other YouTubers have called out this practice whereas these guys made videos on Battlefield within a few days of agreeing to the assignment.
Those Battlefield/CoD and Fifa players, yo. Play for money, not for fun.
And they're not even journalists. That's the funny part. They aren't professionals. Just generic YouTubers who play shooters with a large fanbase.
B_Spooky13
Member
I just think it's funny how much people rage over stupid trivial things. I honestly believe that JackFrags didn't think to "disclose" this because he honestly didn't know. I mean seriously who cares? Oh no Jack didn't tell me that he made a little extra money off of a video that had no commentary and was raw footage at a gaming convention. Nevermind the fact that it's the same video that he puts out almost on a daily basis.. GET HIM!! People need to grow up.
People blowing this waayy outta proportion. Most of the Youtubers you watch.. they sign up for assignments... Get over it.
People blowing this waayy outta proportion. Most of the Youtubers you watch.. they sign up for assignments... Get over it.
I know right. Some people here sound like they consider them figuratively Hitler. As for EA I'm happy to call them out on shitty practice as much as the next guy but this BF4 bug bashing has got out of hand.
If you enjoy playing videogames and video editing then you can do what they do. It's not Journalism OR Marketing. It's just someone playing games and giving their opinion over the top of it. If you could make some money because the publisher offers you some just for doing that then quids in! You shouldn't be using their opinion as your purchasing decisions, just watch the footage and make your own mind up for christs sake. Watch multiple YT channels of it if you want a broader image and IGN or anywhere else for good measure.
It's not selling out, they're not being told to lie about the game and I don't think JF did at all (I only watched the JF videos). I bought the game for PC on release and on PS4,(UK release) so did several of my gaming friends. We've never had to put down the game because it was bugging out so bad we had to stop. Sure there were some annoying bugs (sound one comes to mind) but so what? It was fixed in a couple of weeks and we still had fun.
tl;dr Take it easy, just have some fun for gods sake.
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