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[ClovingWestbrook]

Well to be fair, the Bethesda mod community would actually be a real danger to Bethesda if they didn't get their mod tools.

True. I cant wait to see what they do with the Skyrim tools and engine.

 

[strata8]

All of those games are releasing on engines that are modified versions of engines with over 6 years in the market right? Isn't Frostbyte 2.0 completely new from the way it handles geometry to allow destruction, to the way it works with shaders to implement DX11 effects?

What about Bad Company/Bad Company 2?

 

[Draft]

THE ULTIMATE BETRAYAL.

It's still a $50 million dollar AAA shooter. You didn't think that revenue stream wasn't built around post release DLC?

All of those games are releasing on engines that are modified versions of engines with over 6 years in the market right? Isn't Frostbyte 2.0 completely new from the way it handles geometry to allow destruction, to the way it works with shaders to implement DX11 effects?

:rollin Come on, son.

Modders are fucking geniuses. There are armies of teenage code monkeys out there with the chops to make whatever the hell they want with Frostbite 2.0. The only advantage a dev house has over a bunch of Ukrainian teenagers is an art budget and access to Chinese artists that work for dollars a day.

Too complex is code for we don't want people modding in new maps, guns and vehicles because then you maybe won't buy as many new maps, guns and vehicles through the Origin DLC POS service.

The idea that modders ever, at any point, were beholden to devs that released "polished" tools is a joke. Most of the greatest mods of all time were hacked together on janky pre-millennial tools that were unceremoniously dumped on Fileplanet. Documentation was some .doc files and IRC. Support was emailing a dude who maybe worked on one of the maps and hoping he replied.

 

[godhandiscen]

What about Bad Company/Bad Company 2?

I thought there was a huge shift from FB1.0 to FB2.0 right? Bad Company was made in FB2.0, but that game isn't that old.

 

[Stallion Free]

All of those games are releasing on engines that are modified versions of engines with over 6 years in the market right? Isn't Frostbyte 2.0 completely new from the way it handles geometry to allow destruction, to the way it works with shaders to implement DX11 effects?

People wouldn't be capable of figuring it out?

 

[Menelaus]

this news is filed under "N" for "No shit, Sherlock".

 

[JaseC]

All of those games are releasing on engines that are modified versions of engines with over 6 years in the market right? Isn't Frostbyte 2.0 completely new from the way it handles geometry to allow destruction, to the way it works with shaders to implement DX11 effects?

The notion that a reasonable SDK cannot be born from the official development tools is absurd. The "But it's too hard" excuse is just side-stepping the true issue of EA wanting to nickel-and-dime players for DLC.

 

[Emitan]

It's a shame no one is even trying to make a good shooter anymore. I had hopes for Red Orchestra 2, but they're using punk buster.

They arent releasing dedicated server files either. So PC gamers are at the mercy of the shitty hosts that DICE gives the files to.

Damn, EA. How irrelevant can you be to me?

 

[Deadbeat]

They arent releasing dedicated server files either. So PC gamers are at the mercy of the shitty hosts that DICE gives the files to.

You know what would be funny? If Activision capitalized on this. I mean I know, Activision, but it would be hilarious if they go "MW3 is going to have mod tools unlike a certain other game." It would be amazing.

But none of this matters as Red Orchestra 2 is going to be the multiplayer game im buying this fall.

 

[JWong]

Frostbyte 2 is EA's lifeline now. All their games are going to use it.

They aren't into game engine licensing, so no one should be expecting mod tools or level editors.

 

[ZombieSupaStar]

It's a shame no one is even trying to make a good shooter anymore. I had hopes for Red Orchestra 2, but they're using punk buster.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[Blackface]

bBWAHAHHAHAHA

They do know that a lot of the guys who made big time mods. Are now working for actualy gaming companies making games as good or better then BF3 right?

The notion that they are "much smarter and better with software" then some of the modders is a joke.

 

[Alexios]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

And VAC too I believe. Plus, it's Tripwire... They'll ensure their game works and fix potential issues Punkbuster causes for people, not just drop it in there as is and forget it exists.

 

[legend166]

It's a shame that the next generation of developers won't be able to grow up cutting their teeth on on mod tools.

I really think stupid decisions like this are going to bite the industry in the butt eventually.

 

[Deadbeat]

And VAC too I believe.

VAC doesnt usually block you out of games and ban you randomly. But dont worry, there will be tons of servers up with PunkBuster bypassed and just lots of admins.

It's a shame that the next generation of developers won't be able to grow up cutting their teeth on on mod tools.

I really think stupid decisions like this are going to bite the industry in the butt eventually.

You reap what you sew. You are right they will feel the burn.

 

[DTKT]

can they still "force" mods in? i can't imagine it was even integrated in something like gtaIV

To a point, yes. In GTA case, it's more about replacing existing assets. Mods like Project Reality are way too complex for such "simple" replacements.

 

[The_Player]

Sure, DICE. Say it to Tripwire guys, so the'll laugh in you fucking face. Greedy bastards.

 

[Emitan]

And VAC too I believe. Plus, it's Tripwire... They'll ensure their game works and fix potential issues Punkbuster causes for people, not just drop it in there as is and forget it exists.

They better. I'll break my Punkbuster boycott if it doesn't ruin the game like it does to almost every other game it's in.

 

[Draft]

And, as others have said, it's really the fucking fibbing. How insulting. They know what's up. We know what's up. More importantly, they know who actually cares about stuff like this. The dudebro crown doesn't give a shit about mods or mod tools. They're playing this on an Xbox anyway.

The only people who care about this are hardcore PC gamers. The only people who will read about this are hardcore PC gamers. And hardcore PC gamers see right through that shit. It's just so scummy.

Greed I can respect. Slimy, cowardly spin I cannot.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Eh, DICE has never been big on releasing mod tools, or making the game mod friendly.

So the hate is that they don't go through and take the time and effort to make mod tools (time=money) so that maybe someone will make a cool mod some day? But what if that cool mod hurts BF4?

Then there are already several engines out there that are mod friendly and do great documentation and try and make things usable.

Releasing mod tools/sdk is more than just packing another gig of files and a .exe along.

It's a huge cost and DICE/EA doesn't feel it's worth the money.

Mods/Total Conversions haven't been a big deal for the last 7 years or so.

 

[Emitan]

And, as others have said, it's really the fucking fibbing. How insulting. They know what's up. We know what's up. More importantly, they know who actually cares about stuff like this. The dudebro crown doesn't give a shit about mods or mod tools. They're playing this on an Xbox anyway.

The only people who care about this are hardcore PC gamers. The only people who will read about this are hardcore PC gamers. And hardcore PC gamers see right through that shit. It's just so scummy.

Greed I can respect. Slimy, cowardly spin I cannot.

I love EA. "We make all of our money on PC. Let's piss off the entire fanbase! Close down Origin Studios and create a shitty download service named after them? Check! Stop using Steam in favor of said shitty download service? Check! Never release mod tools for a series that's known for amazing mods? Check! Only allow server hosting through the shittiest companies in the world? Check! Use the cancer that is Punkbuster in everything? CHECK!"

 

[Zebra]

I love EA. "We make all of our money on PC. Let's piss off the entire fanbase! Close down Origin Studios and create a shitty download service named after them? Check! Stop using Steam in favor of said shitty download service? Check! Never release mod tools for a series that's known for amazing mods? Check! Only allow server hosting through the shittiest companies in the world? Check! Use the cancer that is Punkbuster in everything? CHECK!"

This made me feel incredibly sad.

 

[survivor]

I really hope this is a "we can't get the mod tools on release date so we will deny they exist until we finalize them" kind of answer. It will be a real shame to not let the modders have a field day with the game.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

damn

 

[Deadbeat]

I really hope this is a "we can't get the mod tools on release date so we will deny they exist until we finalize them" kind of answer. It will be a real shame to not let the modders have a field day with the game.

Its EA. They dont give two fucks about PC gamers until they saw all the money they were missing due to steam. They are going to do everything in their power to fuck over the PC platform much like MS tried to do with GFWL in an attempt to take all the marketshare Valve has built over the years.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Its EA. They dont give two fucks about PC gamers until they saw all the money they were missing due to steam. They are going to do everything in their power to fuck over the PC platform much like MS tried to do with GFWL in an attempt to take all the marketshare Valve has built over the years.

Let's hope it shares the same fate as GFWL.

 

[godhandiscen]

People wouldn't be capable of figuring it out?

I am not saying people wouldn't be able to figure them out, but maybe the development tools for Frostbyte 2.0 is not a single development framework atm. It might be harder than just packing all the dev tools in an executable and calling it a day.

 

[Deadbeat]

Let's hope it shares the same fate as GFWL.

Valve not only has everything else on the market, but they have the one thing EA will never be able to match this year. Modern Warfare 3.

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

Mods/Total Conversions haven't been a big deal for the last 7 years or so.

Mods/Total Conversions haven't been a big deal for the last 7 years or so.

Mods/Total Conversions haven't been a big deal for the last 7 years or so.

Mods/Total Conversions haven't been a big deal for the last 7 years or so.

Mods/Total Conversions haven't been a big deal for the last 7 years or so.

Mods/Total Conversions haven't been a big deal for the last 7 years or so.

=.=

 

[jambo]

Eh, DICE has never been big on releasing mod tools, or making the game mod friendly.

So the hate is that they don't go through and take the time and effort to make mod tools (time=money) so that maybe someone will make a cool mod some day? But what if that cool mod hurts BF4?

Then there are already several engines out there that are mod friendly and do great documentation and try and make things usable.

Releasing mod tools/sdk is more than just packing another gig of files and a .exe along.

It's a huge cost and DICE/EA doesn't feel it's worth the money.

Mods/Total Conversions haven't been a big deal for the last 7 years or so.

 

[Deadbeat]

Mods/Total Conversions haven't been a big deal for the last 7 years or so.

 

[questionmark]

As disappointing as that is, it is neither surprising, nor does it have any bearing on my desire to buy the game, but:

And, as others have said, it's really the fucking fibbing. How insulting. They know what's up. We know what's up. More importantly, they know who actually cares about stuff like this. The dudebro crown doesn't give a shit about mods or mod tools. They're playing this on an Xbox anyway.

The only people who care about this are hardcore PC gamers. The only people who will read about this are hardcore PC gamers. And hardcore PC gamers see right through that shit. It's just so scummy.

Greed I can respect. Slimy, cowardly spin I cannot.

this.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Valve not only has everything else on the market, but they have the one thing EA will never be able to match this year. Modern Warfare 3.

Excellent point, haha.

I initially thought that maybe some competition would be good...but it's not like Steam is stagnating.

 

[JWong]

Valve not only has everything else on the market, but they have the one thing EA will never be able to match this year. Modern Warfare 3.

Fifa makes more money than MW.

 

[survivor]

Fifa makes more money than MW.

Really? Fifa's online DLC makes up for the sales difference between it and MW?

 

[SneakyStephan]

I love EA. "We make all of our money on PC. Let's piss off the entire fanbase! Close down Origin Studios and create a shitty download service named after them? Check! Stop using Steam in favor of said shitty download service? Check! Never release mod tools for a series that's known for amazing mods? Check! Only allow server hosting through the shittiest companies in the world? Check! Use the cancer that is Punkbuster in everything? CHECK!"

FEh.

EA lost my support years ago, I obviously want to try battlefield 3 so I'll find it on some polish or russian key site for 20 bucks a month after release.
They can shove their DLC where the sun don't shine too.

Mods are what made battlefield and Dice, in the end all they do is hurt their own brand name.

 

[DTKT]

Valve not only has everything else on the market, but they have the one thing EA will never be able to match this year. Modern Warfare 3.

Is MW3 using Steamworks? Is it even rumored to be on Steam?

 

[Emitan]

Is MW3 using Steamworks? Is it even rumored to be on Steam?

The last two games did.

 

[Anton Sugar]

Is MW3 using Steamworks? Is it even rumored to be on Steam?

Of course it would be on Steam. Why not?

 

[The Crimson Kid]

All this does is dim the hype for a game that will still assuredly be, at the very least, pretty good. If EA has half a brain, they will know that not including mod tools will shorten the lifespan of the game on PC and gives a nice advantage to Red Orchestra. This is obvious, and considering that this pisses off the userbase of the lead platform, I would think that DICE has a pretty good reason for this.

So maybe EA just wants to sell DLC. It's possible that's the only reason behind this.

However: Maybe it is more important for DICE to get this game, which is DICE's biggest project ever, working on three platforms by the end of October than it is to include the hooks for mods on one platform. Maybe EA or DICE views mods as a way of raising awareness of a game and extending the lifespan of a game, neither of which Battlefield really has a problem with anymore, especially with EA primed to spend $100 mil on advertising.

Bottom line: We have no idea about the development status of the game. We have no real idea what the game will really turn out to be and how revolutionary it might be. Before we just shrug off DICE's answer (while unsatisfying, it is quite valid from a development perspective), let's see what this game actually turns out to be.

It's a shame no one is even trying to make a good shooter anymore. I had hopes for Red Orchestra 2, but they're using punk buster.

I'm so tired of this mindless internet entitlement. THIS ISN'T 100% PERFECT, SO IT SUCKS!!! I can guarantee that hundreds of employees are striving to make innovative top-quality shooters at DICE and at Tripwire. That brain fart of yours that "no one is even trying" is pure ignorance at it's finest.

I can also guarantee that every single one of those workers is more talented and harder working than you are. No one who has had to work as hard to create something like these games would have such a sense of entitlement detached from reality.

Maybe it's time to take a break from the internet, get some sun (vitamin D improves mood), maybe talk to a few people, etc. There's no point in getting hyper-cynical and furious about a decision you know next to nothing about just because you have nothing else to do.

 

[Emitan]

I'm so tired of this mindless internet entitlement. THIS ISN'T 100% PERFECT, SO IT SUCKS!!! I can guarantee that hundreds of employees are striving to make innovative top-quality shooters at DICE and at Tripwire. That brain fart of yours that "no one is even trying" is pure ignorance at it's finest.

I can also guarantee that every single one of those workers is more talented and harder working than you are. No one who has had to work as hard to create something like these games would have such a sense of entitlement detached from reality.

Maybe it's time to take a break from the internet, get some sun (vitamin D improves mood), maybe talk to a few people, etc. There's no point in getting hyper-cynical and furious about a decision you know next to nothing about just because you have nothing else to do.

It does't matter how hard they're working if they're not trying to appeal to me. Not including mod tools is a design decision that I disagree with. It is not one tiny flaw that only makes it 99% good. If a FPS doesn't have mod tools, I'm not interested.

 

[Ceebs]

I read that as "No we can't let you make your own maps. We want to sell you new ones"

 

[Sibylus]

Mods/Total Conversions haven't been a big deal for the last 7 years or so.

ITT: History as it never happened.

Alternatively, History as it happened to D3adend.

1942 didnt have any either did it? desert combat was made with all user made custom tools

1942 had official modding/mapping tools.

 

[DTKT]

The last two games did.

Totally forgot about MW2 and Steam. I just hope we dont get a new version of IWnet.

 

[epmode]

I'm so tired of this mindless internet entitlement. THIS ISN'T 100% PERFECT, SO IT SUCKS!!!

To this day, Bad Company 2 kicks me within 5 minutes of almost every game I try to join, thanks to Punkbuster. You're right though, I'm just another entitled baby for wanting to finish a match.

New rule: Introduce the word "entitlement" in a PC thread = autoban?

 

[D3adend]

ITT: History as it never happened.

Alternatively, History as it happened to D3adend.


1942 had official modding/mapping tools.

Ok, then name me 5 popular mods for games that were released after July 15th 2004?
As in the core game was after 2004, and the mod is in fact playable right now and has people playing.

DOTA was Warcraft 3, 2002.
Unreal 2k4 was March 2004. It had a good number of mods.
UT3 mods just haven't been taking the world by storm at all.
But the mod scene has kind of faded quite a bit over the last several years.

But keep screaming about lack of potential for mods on a proprietary engine for a game that will have locked servers controlled by the publisher and probably have no patches after 6 months and will have (true to DICE's history) a shitty server browser and connection issues at release.

So yes, please rage at me for pointing out some facts.

And the BF1942 mod tools did not exist in any form at release of the game, or planned to until fans made hack-arounds for mods and DICE gave in.

 

[DR2K]

It's too hard. . .really, lol?

 

[demolitio]

And there goes my hopes and dreams...I was hoping to work on a lot of mods for BF again since I've worked on a few on each BF game from BF42-BF2. Bad Company 2 was the first blow but I shrugged it off since it was more of a console series anyway and went back to waiting for BF3. Looks like I waited for nothing...

 

[Emitan]

Ok, then name me 5 popular mods for games that were released after July 15th 2004?
As in the core game was after 2004, and the mod is in fact playable right now and has people playing.

DOTA was Warcraft 3, 2002.
Unreal 2k4 was March 2004. It had a good number of mods.
UT3 mods just haven't been taking the world by storm at all.
But the mod scene has kind of faded quite a bit over the last several years.

But keep screaming about lack of potential for mods on a proprietary engine for a game that will have locked servers controlled by the publisher and probably have no patches after 6 months and will have (true to DICE's history) a shitty server browser and connection issues at release.

So yes, please rage at me for pointing out some facts.

Project Reality for BF2? Dystopia for Source engine? Call of Duty 4 promod?

 

[Unknown One]

It's like these developers want to kill off Mods so they could sell you maps and skins.