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[childplease]

Sigh Mods are the best thing about pc gaming.

Heck the best mp game of all time Counter Strike was a mod.

Mod tools allow gamers to fix what Developers screwed up.

Imagine if Bc2 came out with mod tools, we would get a balanced recon class within weeks.

 

[immortal-joe]

Telling your customers they cannot have something is one thing

Giving a bullshit reason what they cannot have said thing is a whole other animal

STOP LYING you assholes.

I swear I do not have even the slightest interest in Battlefield 3, but this shit just annoys the crap out of me.

 

[JWong]

It's like these developers want to kill off Mods so they could sell you maps and skins.

I'm sure if you invented something, you'll be giving away your secrets for free.

 

[immortal-joe]

I'm sure if you invented something, you'll be giving away your secrets for free.

How about Valve and their Source engine??

 

[jambo]

Ok, then name me 5 popular mods for games that were released after July 15th 2004?

Gmod
The Nameless Mod
The Ball
Project Reality
Point of Existence 2
Fortress Forever
MechWarrior: Living Legends
Goldeneye Source

 

[Stallion Free]

I'm sure if you invented something, you'll be giving away your secrets for free.

Damn, how is Epic still in business.

OH WAIT.

 

[Shai-Tan]

mods aren't only standalone things. it's custom maps, gametypes etc. there are loads of those in popular shooters which have mods. some people were talking about those new great modes in black ops... the ones they lifted straight from mods

 

[Saige]

If you want to sell more maps and skins just come out and say it, but don’t insult the modding community by saying they’re just not smart enough to do what you do.

 

[Htown]

Translation: We want some of that CoD map pack money.

Can't charge for maps when people are making better ones for your game in their own free time.

 

[rar]

think about how much of team fortress 2 is a 'mod'

there are around 18 user-made official maps, and most of the weapons and hats at this point are user created

thats before even considering that team fortress itself is a mod

 

[D3adend]

Gmod
The Nameless Mod
The Ball
Project Reality
Point of Existence 2
Fortress Forever
MechWarrior: Living Legends
Goldeneye Source

I didn't even realize that Mechwarrior went playable. Cool.

GMod and the Ball are now purchasable games.
Nameless Mod is DX1.
I forgot that HL2 was 04 and not 03.

I also didn't realize that most of those had active communities.

Still nothing like the early 00s when mods were the golden tickets.

I also don't see how DICE is insulting the mod community any more than it used to. And it's probably not in their best interests to release a mod toolkit for their game. As again, it's not like it's a matter of simply putting the executable up for download. Valve puts tons of effort into making their SDK/Mod tools work properly.

None of us here have used DICE's internal tools. I've heard about internal tools and seen a few myself. They are brutal, tend to be buggy with messages of "talk to Steve" to fix shit, non-existent tooltips, horrible layouts, no documentation aside from talking to the tools guy.
And there may be some crazy propritary things in DICE's SDK that they don't want getting out there, and removing that which can't be leaked from that which the modders need, may not be worth the expenses involved.

Valve and Epic have good modkits/SDKs because they want people using their engines and potentially getting money from them later when they go pro. It's worked AMAZING for Epic, along with having modders as basically testers for SDKs later on. It's part of the reason iD did it as well. Valve hasn't gotten many people buying Source licences for retail games, but a few have.

DICE is part of EA and EA wants to hold onto their engine. They have no reason for outsiders to see it.

 

[jambo]

I can't believe someone is defending the lack of mod tools. "EA wanting to hold on to their engine." What about consumers? We're consumers, I don't care what EA wants. I want the damn SDK.

They really do come in every shape and size on NeoGAF.


EDIT: Also, you mentioned in your original post that there had been no good mods for 7 or so years :lol . If this were actually true, wouldn't you want DICE to release the DSK and mod tools so the community could create awesome mods?!

 

[Wthermans]

BF3 = BC3 confirmed

Fuck you DICE. No Project Reality, no BF2Pro, no POE, No Forgotten Hope.

DICE is pretty much the new post-MW IW at this point.

 

[aperman]

Telling your customers they cannot have something is one thing

Giving a bullshit reason what they cannot have said thing is a whole other animal

STOP LYING you assholes.

I swear I do not have even the slightest interest in Battlefield 3, but this shit just annoys the crap out of me.

This mentality is dangerous in this world.

 

[Karram]

I would've respected them more, if they just said 'we don't have time to create the mod tools' instead of this shitty excuse. If they really think that the mod community won't be able to use a modding tool, they are crazy.

 

[Wthermans]

Oh yeah and Mikael Kalms is a bold-faced liar.

 

[questionmark]

Really? Fifa's online DLC makes up for the sales difference between it and MW?

I would venture that FIFA is alot cheaper to make than COD.

 

[JWong]

Damn, how is Epic still in business.

OH WAIT.

Epic makes its business by selling its UE license. You want to make money on a mod? You need to pay an exorbitant amount of licensing fees.

EA doesn't want to get into this business because they want to keep the engine for themselves to be ultra competitive in the latest technology. And how can they do that if they release the engine for free?

 

[D3adend]

Because ITS THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD THAT A GAME FROM EA DOESNT HAVE MOD TOOLS!!! AGGrgbherghebrgreibg

Oh, no wait, it's not.

You think mod tools are released purely for altruistic reasons? Fuck no they aren't.
Mod tools are released in the hope of making more money.
If the cost of creating a modkit by DICE is higher than the potential sales that mods may lead to, there is no reason for them to release a modkit. And what if the reasons for not having mods are that the toolsets are overly complicated and in swedish, crash all the time and require using expensive plugins that were custom built by another company? There are many potential reasons for why there are no mod tools aside from "THEY ARE GONNA DO HORSE ARMOR AND SHITTY MAP PACKS!"

As they did shitty map packs in their earlier games too. And horse armor. And mods.
So maybe it is a matter of technical bullshit and money and legal bullshit too?

I don't see what the big deal is, DICE has never been the best at supporting their community. Valve has done great and updates Source, UE3 is still the game industry standard and isn't Crytek still doing mod tools?

**edit due to edit**
I said using game engines from the last 7 years.
the last mod mentioned was for Crysis engine, which is 2007 or Unreal Engine 3 which is also 2007. 4 years ago, the mod kits hit for those two.

 

[jambo]

Epic makes its business by selling its UE license. You want to make money on a mod? You need to pay an exorbitant amount of licensing fees.

"US $99 (Ninety Nine US Dollars) up-front, and a 0% royalty on you or your company's first $50,000 (US) in UDK related revenue from all your UDK based games or commercial applications, and a 25% royalty on UDK related revenue from all your UDK based games or commercial applications above $50,000 (US)"

http://www.udk.com/licensing

That sounds pretty good to me.

 

[Stallion Free]

Epic makes its business by selling its UE license. You want to make money on a mod? You need to pay an exorbitant amount of licensing fees.

EA doesn't want to get into this business because they want to keep the engine for themselves to be ultra competitive in the latest technology. And how can they do that if they release the engine for free?

They are relasing their engine for 60$ and no one can sell a product on it. Why would they give a shit? It's not like they are releasing source code so people can wholesale rip off the engine. So yeah, it comes down to making paid DLC appealing.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

They have been saying this for like half a year now haven't they? EA wants their map pack money I guess... I mean they have already announced day one dlc.

This.

But maybe mod tools will come after.

 

[D3adend]

"US $99 (Ninety Nine US Dollars) up-front, and a 0% royalty on you or your company's first $50,000 (US) in UDK related revenue from all your UDK based games or commercial applications, and a 25% royalty on UDK related revenue from all your UDK based games or commercial applications above $50,000 (US)"

http://www.udk.com/licensing

That sounds pretty good to me.

Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

$50k is nowhere near enough money to pay for the cost of paying creators.
That is for hobbiests who make mods and want to see if they may have made something worth buying. As that is 1,00 units at $50 a pop. So it's fine for people who made a game in their free time over the course of several years as a hobby and are selling it for super cheap.

Everyone else spends huge money getting the licence for publishing games, because it's still way lower than 25% royalty, as even shitty games make more than 50k.

 

[jambo]

**edit due to edit**
I said using game engines from the last 7 years.
the last mod mentioned was for Crysis engine, which is 2007 or Unreal Engine 3 which is also 2007. 4 years ago, the mod kits hit for those two.

So why not have DICE release their SDK and mod tools. The next big hit could be waiting to be created by the community.

I don't understand how you think depriving the community of access to mod tools is a good thing for consumers in any way.

 

[Wthermans]

DICE = new post-MW IW confirmed?

 

[D3adend]

So why not have DICE release their SDK and mod tools. The next big hit could be waiting to be created by the community.

I don't understand how you think depriving the community of access to mod tools is a good thing for consumers in any way.

I don't understand how you assume that the BF3 engine would cause that to happen.
And why would DICE want people coming back to BF3 when BF4 will be out in 2013?

 

[JWong]

So why not have DICE release their SDK and mod tools. The next big hit could be waiting to be created by the community.

I don't understand how you think depriving the community of access to mod tools is a good thing for consumers in any way.

This "next big hit" can be created by any engine. You don't need graphical fidelity to be creative.

 

[Stallion Free]

This "next big hit" can be created by any engine. You don't need graphical fidelity to be creative.

But according to you, you need it to succeed and simple mod tools will let anyone match or surpass FB3.

 

[legend166]

If your worth as a studio can't be maintained unless you hold back mod tools, your studio sucks.

Mod tools help games way, way more than they hurt them. I can bet you Valve wouldn't be where they are today without Counter-Strike.

I bet if Ubisoft released mod tools for Far Cry 2, that game would have had a long and prosperous tail on the PC because modders could have made it amazing.

 

[JWong]

But according to you, you need it to succeed and simple mod tools will let anyone match or surpass FB3.

BF3 is a technological show piece first and foremost. It's going to be a great fps war shooter, but it's plainly showing off how good Frostbite 2 looks.
You can match or surpass BF3's "fun" with any engine, but, at this moment, you can't match the tech.

 

[Stallion Free]

BF3 is a technological show piece first and foremost. It's going to be a great fps war shooter, but it's plainly showing off how good Frostbite 2 looks.
You can match or surpass BF3's "fun" with any engine, but, at this moment, you can't match the tech.

And you can't match it by looking at and using mod tools. Have you ever used an SDK released by Valve or Crytek or anyone?

 

[SneakyStephan]

I don't understand how you assume that the BF3 engine would cause that to happen.
And why would DICE want people coming back to BF3 when BF4 will be out in 2013?

Sigh.

Noone cares what DICE wants people to behave like, mod support was a huge selling point for the original bf1942 for the fans (the game kept selling steadily for years because of them and the fans were HAPPY).

As gamers WE care that we can come back to our games for years and keep enjoying them with fresh new fan made content.
If you want to be a complacent corporate apologist then go do it somewhere else than in a thread about pc modding.

Bloody bad company babies who were born yesterday give me a headache.

If a product isn't giving me what I expect from it, then I will move to one that does, thats how it works outside of 'every developer is entitled to riches for trying' bizarro world.
There were dozens of shooters on pc 10 years ago, and the studios and franchises that survived did so because they offered something more and better than what the competition did/could.
Once they stop doing that, the goodwill and appreciation from the fans will stop too and more will take their money elsewhere.

People love mods, what is there not to understand?

 

[Interfectum]

"'Cause if you look at the Frostbite engine, and how complex it is, it's going to be very difficult for people to mod the game. Because of the nature of the set up of levels, the destruction, and all those things, it's quite tricky, so we think it's going to be too big of a challenge for people to make a mod."

Yes, only DICE has the talent to create maps and modify the engine. Stoopid modders... stick with Source, UE3 and the rest. Frostbite is for pros only.

lol...

 

[Darklord]

I don't understand why developers hate mods now. Look at Valve, half the games they make were originally mods! Desert Combat for 1942 was massive, funny enough BF2 was modern combat. It helps extend the life of the game(All bethesda games, old Battlefield games, Valve games, Blizzard games, hell even GTA4). Some of the big steps in gaming came from modders and now big mod communities are so little now, we also have no creativity in gaming. Coincidence?

 

[Irish]

So... no Project Reality for BF3?

 

[Interfectum]

I don't understand why developers hate mods now. Look at Valve, half the games they make were originally mods! Desert Combat for 1942 was massive, funny enough BF2 was modern combat. It helps extend the life of the game(All bethesda games, old Battlefield games, Valve games, Blizzard games, hell even GTA4). Some of the big steps in gaming came from modders and now big mod communities are so little now, we also have no creativity in gaming. Coincidence?

I can't even imagine where DICE would be without Desert Combat.

 

[Gram Negative Cocci]

DLC
DLC
DLC
DLC
DLC
DLC

 

[fabricated backlash]

Great patronizing there EA and Dice. hell even basic game rule tweak mods would be much apreciated, to iron out the bullshit that Dice calls balancing in their games.

 

[Arucardo]

One of the big bullet points for Frostbite 2.0 was supposed to be easier to use tools which should have made modding possible. This is the exact same excuse they used for Frostbite 1 (BC2).

 

[CorkyFromLifeGoesOn]

Yeah, the mod community can make some really cool stuff. Much cooler then any dlc they could put out. Its probably a move to make their dlc more attractive.

 

[TheSeks]

Imagine if Bc2 came out with mod tools, we would get a balanced recon class within weeks.

Recon is broken?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol x 1000, someone obviously hasn't played BC2 to make such a claim. Here's a protip: Picking Recon/sniper means you just picked the "I LOSE" button. Why? Because no one plays the goddamn class smartly to help the rest of the team out.

Spoiler

And besides: Assault Medic + Assaul Refill ammo = revive and death chains.

I honestly saw this coming, so it doesn't bother me. Would've been nice to have PR work on Frostbite 2, but what can we do?

 

[domlolz]

Why were people expecting mod tools for bf3? You were just setting yourself up for disappointment, how many of dice's game have had proper mod tools? BF2 relied on the community to make tools didn't it?

 

[abunai]

This generation is the best generation.

 

[Metal-Geo]

Why have they been advertising/promoting the Frostbite Engine 3.0 the entire time anyway? Just like that retarded bullshit Ubisoft did with the Dunia Engine for Far Cry 2. What's the goddamn point?

 

[hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka]

Considering how fucking bad DICE is at making in-game GUIs, I don't even want to imagine how bad their mod tools will look/function.

I'm getting less and less interested in this game every time DICE says something about it. First their "Well BC2 sold more than BF2 so we have to make it more like the former!" attitude and now this. They're too focused on taking down Call of Duty which is probably a waste of time and resources.

Call of Duty didn't get to where it is today by trying to take down Counter-Strike or Medal of Honor. Infinity Ward focused on making the best game they possibly could and it paid off for them.

Recon is broken?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol x 1000, someone obviously hasn't played BC2 to make such a claim. Here's a protip: Picking Recon/sniper means you just picked the "I LOSE" button. Why? Because no one plays the goddamn class smartly to help the rest of the team out.

Spoiler

And besides: Assault Medic + Assaul Refill ammo = revive and death chains.

I honestly saw this coming, so it doesn't bother me. Would've been nice to have PR work on Frostbite 2, but what can we do?

Exactly. Recon is broken in the sense that it's useless when played by 95% of the community. Maybe mods would make the class useful.

 

[Arnie]

I'm getting less and less interested in this game every time DICE says something about it. First their "Well BC2 sold more than BF2 so we have to make it more like the former!" attitude and now this.

They never said this. The game has more in common with BF2 than any of the Bad Company games.

 

[fabricated backlash]

Why have they been advertising/promoting the Frostbite Engine 3.0 the entire time anyway? Just like that retarded bullshit Ubisoft did with the Dunia Engine for Far Cry 2. What's the goddamn point?

You can sell the game to nerds regardless of the games actual quality. Some people actually play games to drool over a new lightning technique.
It's like a car manufacturer sending out a spec sheet for the new engine or tires. Meaningless overbloated stuff, but you'll get sales from some enthusiasts who don't care for the rest.

 

[MMaRsu]

What the fuck? Why would you not want modders to make your game better? Why would you not want them to create tons of new awesome maps?

Oh I get it, because it would cost Dice money because noone would buy their mappacks.

The worst part is he fucking lies about it too .. `oh yeah we aint got modding tools because it would just be too damn hard for them modders`

 

[RS4-]

DiceLC.

Still disappointed they don't want to release an SDK or something for the community to have fun with.

 

[hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka]

They never said this. The game has more in common with BF2 than any of the Bad Company games.

-On Twitter when someone asked about why the cover art has a blue soldier with the flame on his chest exactly like BC2, the developer replied with "Which one sold more, huh?".
-The class system is closer to BC2's than BF2's.
-The HUD is more like BC2's than BF2's.

They've only said it once before but this way of thinking is obviously showing through their design. Actions speak louder than words.