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EA Shifts focus to Wii

firex said:
Probably because no matter how many exploration elements it has, it's still pretty much a shooter. It's just not a linear level 1-15 or whatever corridor shooter like CoD/Halo/most other console shooters. I can't really compare it to a 3d Zelda game just like I can't compare 2d sidescrolling Metroid to 2d overhead Zelda. They might both have exploration elements, but anything else they share is something you can broadly ascribe to nearly any game genre.

Metroid Prime series are purely action adventure games. They're just put into first person. Just because it's in first person doesn't mean it's a FPS. And yes while Zelda and Metroid are different they are still both action-adventure games. Just like while The Witcher and Fallout 3 are different they're both RPG's.
 
Deku said:
Yeah, not going to get into this but I want to reiterate that the financial meltdown, not so much the economic crisis (yet) has a direct impact on the ability of companies to finance their still very risky projects. Anyone who says this isn't the case is lying. The studio closures and devs shutting down is directly due to this.

The larger economic weakness hasnt hit hard yet, and it will eventually. And when it does, more studios will close, more games will be cancelled and there will be more consolidation, well beyond the normal process of creative destruction that we see.
This is a very good point. We're definitely going to see a lot of projects get scaled back or outright cancelled because of this. 2008 may very well have been the zenith of current gen AAA game releases, at least for HD platforms and more than likely, overall.
 
viciouskillersquirrel said:
This is a very good point. We're definitely going to see a lot of projects get scaled back or outright cancelled because of this. 2008 may very well have been the zenith of current gen AAA game releases,

This is why the wii will be getting the support. If an AAA wii title costs far less than a AAA HD title when funds are scarce what do you think is going to be the choice?
 
The world sucks for the few sad souls -- like me -- who don't find waggle to be any more fun than traditional controls (and who actually think it's more tedious, limiting, and/or inefficient). I feel like a gaming dinosaur . . .
 
Flying_Phoenix said:
First you ignore "budget re-release" then you claim that Okami and Zelda are "Adventure Games"...
So what if it was a budget re-release, if the Wii is a new audience and there aren't any other Zelda clones on the market then why shouldn't we expect Okami to at least sell better than it did on the PS2 (when it also had no marketing and was up against fierce competition from like titles)?

Explain to me how a multiplayer online First Person Shooter and 2 WRPG's come into the line of an Action-Adventure game?
Are you fucking kidding me? MP3 counts as evidence for BG&E selling well and Fable 2 doesn't? Hell, at least Fallout 3 could maybe be debated (you'd lose, trust me), but Fable 2???
 
professor_t said:
The world sucks for the few sad souls -- like me -- who don't find waggle to be any more fun than traditional controls (and who actually think it's more tedious, limiting, and/or inefficient). I feel like a gaming dinosaur . . .

As one of my best friends always says, "Adapt or move on."
 
firex said:
Probably because no matter how many exploration elements it has, it's still pretty much a shooter. It's just not a linear level 1-15 or whatever corridor shooter like CoD/Halo/most other console shooters. I can't really compare it to a 3d Zelda game just like I can't compare 2d sidescrolling Metroid to 2d overhead Zelda. They might both have exploration elements, but anything else they share is something you can broadly ascribe to nearly any game genre.

Lock-on combat? Item/powerup based progression? These are not things that can be ascribed to almost any genre. In fact they are typical of only one genre: action/adventure.
 
abstract alien said:
Welcome to the standard wii thread, where graphics are all that matter, and advanced control methods always sucks.

not always, only when they are tacked on, which is sadly many times. If a game is designed ground up for the Wii, it usually fares better.

and "advanced control methods" is completely subjective
 
professor_t said:
The world sucks for the few sad souls -- like me -- who don't find waggle to be any more fun than traditional controls (and who actually think it's more tedious, limiting, and/or inefficient). I feel like a gaming dinosaur . . .
So I take it you've never experienced the awesomeness of pointer controls?
 
MotherFan said:
This is why the wii will be getting the support. If an AAA wii title costs far less than a AAA HD title when funds are scarce what do you think is going to be the choice?
This all assumes that an AAA wii title is, at this point, significantly cheaper. Especially for western devs who will be locked to one platform instead of three, and effectively barred from the third largest market (Japan), and who have spent the last 2-3 years building HD asset libraries and engines.

What I really think is that you're going to see western devs aggressively mimicing Nintendo's top selling titles, which means a flood of cheap minigames, training products, and last-gen rereleases/barely-improved-GC games coupled with extremely aggressive marketing and bundled plastic doodads. You aren't going to be seeing Super Mario Galaxy from anyone (including Nintendo).
So I take it you've never experienced the awesomeness of pointer controls?
Not if he bought Nintendo titles released in 2008.
 
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beef3483 said:
Sure it is. It's an action-adventure (just because a game has shooting combat doesn't mean its a shooter). It's progression is based upon acquiring powerups and items to get further just like Zelda. And it mixes heavy bits of puzzle solving in with it's exploration.

It's Zelda, without the towns and in a sci-fi setting. The reason I love both series is because of thier similarities.

Then they arent really similar at all. Zelda is an open world adventure game thats concentrates on dungeons, towns and puzzles. Metroid is a sidescrolling action/FPA series that concentrates on non linearity, bosses, and one seamless dungeon. Their viewpoints and world design are not the same. So yeah I'm calling bullshit.

Also anyone who think MP3 is closer to Zelda than Fable II is smoking some serious drugs.
 
AniHawk said:
Arrogance? Reluctance, sure, but I don't think anyone's really arrogant except maybe some people at Epic.
AniHawk said:
Yes, but more developers than not (especially western developers) detest the Wii anyway. It's probably more half and half than 100% one or the other (which it would be for the Wii).
How is detesting something like the Wii not arrogant?
 
Flying_Phoenix said:
You're complaining a budget re-release of a flop with far less advertising (which is obvious since it's a re-release) that silently hit a system with far less userbase size that sold just as much as the premier version implying that it didn't do so hot and thus it supports that there is a strong chance that there is no market for it on the console?

I mean really how much farther are you people going to reach?


Have to agree with this. Thats quite a stretch your taking there. People said the same thing about RE4:Wii before it just kept on selling and selling and selling. If Okami managed to match its PS2 numbers on a budget re-release with no added content on a smaller userbase with no advertisements worth a damn after it already flopped the first goddamn time.......

I dont see how you can even remotely attempt to paint that as bad. In any way shape or fashion.
 
Of All Trades said:
This all assumes that an AAA wii title is, at this point, significantly cheaper. Especially for western devs who will be locked to one platform instead of three, and effectively barred from the third largest market (Japan), and who have spent the last 2-3 years building HD asset libraries and engines.

What I really think is that you're going to see western devs aggressively mimicing Nintendo's top selling titles, which means a flood of cheap minigames, training products, and last-gen rereleases/barely-improved-GC games coupled with extremely aggressive marketing and bundled plastic doodads. You aren't going to be seeing Super Mario Galaxy from anyone (including Nintendo).
Unless you're doing a sequel, you're going to have to build all new art assets for every game you do anyway. That's where the big differentiator is in terms of costs - art assets. HD assets are very expensive.

As for being barred from Japan, please explain what you mean.

You'll see a lot of devs trying to mimic Nintendo, as they always do. You'll also see more of them do what they've always done and in doing so, meet the needs of an underserved market. Don't let the existence of shovelware fool you - the PS2's library was mostly shovelware. The only significant difference between the PS2 and the Wii libraries (2 years into their respective lifespans, naturally), is that there is only one publisher current putting their top content on the Wii.
 
Puncture said:
Have to agree with this. Thats quite a stretch your taking there. People said the same thing about RE4:Wii before it just kept on selling and selling and selling. If Okami managed to match its PS2 numbers on a budget re-release with no added content on a smaller userbase with no advertisements worth a damn after it already flopped the first goddamn time.......

I dont see how you can even remotely attempt to paint that as bad. In any way shape or fashion.

It also had less competition and supposedly Zelda backing it up. Because everyone keeps implying adventure games like Zelda sell better when Zelda is around (which is bullshit). And I'm not saying Okami did bad. I didnt say it bombed. But its the only evidence we have of a Zeldalike that isnt Zelda on Wii. And its evidence certainly doesnt say BG&E2 would do better on Wii
 
I agree with Mr. squirrel and would like to add that Wii was coming off the worst selling Nintendo system outside of virtual boy. The PS2 had a ton hype and coming off a very successful PSX. Third parties anticipated the PS2 having the largest userbase. They were blindsided with Wii.

EA's history with Wii so far has been pretty good so I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they will create quality Wii titles.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
Did Ancel implicitly say he wanted it on the PS360? I don't recall him doing that.

He has enough clout to put his projects where he wants them. At least Ubisoft is less likely to tamper with the content on the HDs. We all know how tunnel vision Ubisoft's view of the Wii is, contentwise
 
HK-47 said:
He has enough clout to put his projects where he wants them. At least Ubisoft is less likely to tamper with the content on the HDs. We all know how tunnel vision Ubisoft's view of the Wii is, contentwise

Uh, may I remind you of what happened with Rayman Raving Rabbids? I'm not buying your statement as a catch all by any means.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
Uh, may I remind you of what happened with Rayman Raving Rabbids? I'm not buying your statement as a catch all by any means.

Yeah it got changed from a platformer into a party game that Ancel has never had anything to do with. He left after the change in genre. So?
 
Flying_Phoenix said:
Metroid Prime series are purely action adventure games. They're just put into first person. Just because it's in first person doesn't mean it's a FPS. And yes while Zelda and Metroid are different they are still both action-adventure games. Just like while The Witcher and Fallout 3 are different they're both RPG's.
you know, I'm not sure why I bother to refute this in detail, because reading all your posts in this thread it's pretty obvious you're not going to listen to anything but someone agreeing with everything you say. "action adventure" is such a stupidly broad label it can be applied to pretty much any game except strategy games. The fact is the way you interact with 80% of the environment in the MP games is by shooting stuff. Whether it's shooting doors, shooting switches, shooting enemies, you spend more time shooting stuff than you do scanning or using the morph ball. maybe platforming is equal in its use to shooting in MP, but that's not quite the same kind of interaction (and is yet another case of different environmental interaction than Zelda). And it is a big difference from Zelda because the game borrows most of its control ideas from FPS games and then adds its own twist to it.

I understand a lot of the similarities in a superficial sense (in Zelda you get heart containers and new swords and use bombs to open up hidden passages, in Metroid you get energy tanks and new beams and use bombs and missiles to open up hidden passages) but the way those games play really has nothing in common with each other. Or I guess I could say the 2d versions don't. The 3d versions might share a few similarities, but that's more a case of the Metroid franchise being horribly mishandled in 3d. Seriously, they probably could have/would have done a better job of this if they didn't have Miyamoto stepping in or had been allowed to use MP3's control scheme from the beginning.

Plus, lock-on targeting and item/powerup based progression does not an action/adventure game make. Those are both elements of the last-gen Prince of Persia trilogy and this gen's new PoP game, and yet those are pretty clearly platformers. Shit, if we're going to really split hairs on this, then lock-on combat and item/powerup based progression also applies to DMC and that is by no means at all like Zelda or Metroid Prime. Like I said, it's just way too general and used in way too many games now to claim the game is like Zelda when it doesn't play like Zelda. A lot of games have similar Zelda-like elements but don't play anything like Zelda.
 
firex said:
you know, I'm not sure why I bother to refute this in detail, because reading all your posts in this thread it's pretty obvious you're not going to listen to anything but someone agreeing with everything you say. "action adventure" is such a stupidly broad label it can be applied to pretty much any game except strategy games. The fact is the way you interact with 80% of the environment in the MP games is by shooting stuff. Whether it's shooting doors, shooting switches, shooting enemies, you spend more time shooting stuff than you do scanning or using the morph ball. maybe platforming is equal in its use to shooting in MP, but that's not quite the same kind of interaction (and is yet another case of different environmental interaction than Zelda). And it is a big difference from Zelda because the game borrows most of its control ideas from FPS games and then adds its own twist to it.

I understand a lot of the similarities in a superficial sense (in Zelda you get heart containers and new swords and use bombs to open up hidden passages, in Metroid you get energy tanks and new beams and use bombs and missiles to open up hidden passages) but the way those games play really has nothing in common with each other. Or I guess I could say the 2d versions don't. The 3d versions might share a few similarities, but that's more a case of the Metroid franchise being horribly mishandled in 3d. Seriously, they probably could have/would have done a better job of this

Plus, lock-on targeting and item/powerup based progression does not an action/adventure game make. Those are both elements of the last-gen Prince of Persia trilogy and this gen's new PoP game, and yet those are pretty clearly platformers. Shit, if we're going to really split hairs on this, then lock-on combat and item/powerup based progression also applies to DMC and that is by no means at all like Zelda or Metroid Prime. Like I said, it's just way too general and used in way too many games now to claim the game is like Zelda when it doesn't play like Zelda. A lot of games have similar Zelda-like elements but don't play anything like Zelda.

Dont bother. I've tried making the exact same argument before in a conversation with him. Didnt go anywhere
 
abstract alien said:
Welcome to the standard wii thread, where graphics are all that matter, and advanced control methods always sucks.
My favorite platformer this gen is in HD on the 360, only uses 1 button and the dpad, and practically has no graphics.
N+

What do you say to that, fanbois?
 
HK-47 said:
Yeah it got changed from a platformer into a party game that Ancel has never had anything to do with. He left after the change in genre. So?

So Ancel has clout as to what platforms he wants a game on but not what those games are?

That's some interesting cherry picking there.
 
HK-47 said:
Dont bother. I've tried making the exact same argument before in a conversation with him. Didnt go anywhere

It is a stupid argument. Super Metroid's primary means of action is "shooting," but that does not make it comparable to Contra. In other words, one must consider the nature of the action in its context, not simply the act itself. Samus Aran's Power Beam is primarily a means to access, explore, and interact with environments and obstacles, NOT a means to combat enemies. The Metroid Prime games are not first-person shooters.

That said, I do not like the comparison to LoZ. Sure, I can see it, but Metroid is still very, very different.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
So Ancel has clout as to what platforms he wants a game on but not what those games are?

That's some interesting cherry picking there.

A good point but if he didnt have clout, why would Ubisoft allow him another chance at BG&E after its failure?
 
SapientWolf said:
My favorite platformer this gen is in HD on the 360, only uses 1 button and the dpad, and practically has no graphics.
N+

What do you say to that, fanbois?
I say that I think it's funny that it's a freeware PC game and I happily paid $10 for it :D
Cave Story is a similar situation
 
TheGrayGhost said:
It is a stupid argument. Super Metroid's primary means of action is "shooting," but that does not make it comparable to Contra. In other words, one must consider the nature of the action in its context, not simply the act itself. Samus Aran's Power Beam is primarily a means to access, explore, and interact with environments and obstacles, NOT a means to combat enemies. The Metroid Prime games are not first-person shooters.

That said, I do not like the comparison to LoZ. Sure, I can see it, but Metroid is still very, very different.

Thats why Nintendo invented the term FPA. Sort of like how SS2 and Deus Ex are FPS/RPG hybrids, Metroid does the same with adventure. They still fall under the umbrella of FPS, which falls under the umbrella of Action Adventure

And the power beam does equal amounts of combat and puzzle solving. Shooting doesnt just apply to combat.
 
viciouskillersquirrel said:
So I take it you've never experienced the awesomeness of pointer controls?

Sorry, I was using "waggle" as a blanket term to describe whatever the hell it is one does with a wiimote (pointing at the screen to shoot stuff, shaking it to make Mario jump, flicking the wrist to throw a baseball, etc.).

Pointing is a better application of the wiimote than some of other stuff (such as the Mario jump referenced above), but I don't see why it's much better than aiming using a thumbstick. I'm not saying it ISN'T better, I just don't see it myself.
 
HK-47 said:
Thats why Nintendo invented the term FPA. Sort of like how SS2 and Deus Ex are FPS/RPG hybrids, Metroid does the same with adventure. They still fall under the umbrella of FPS, which falls under the umbrella of Action Adventure.

Drop the "S" from "FPS," and I have no problem with these three sentences.

HK-47 said:
And the power beam does equal amounts of combat and puzzle solving. Shooting doesnt just apply to combat.

Nope. This is just not true, man.

professor_t said:
Sorry, I was using "waggle" as a blanket term to describe whatever the hell it is one does with a wiimote (pointing at the screen to shoot stuff, shaking it to make Mario jump, flicking the wrist to throw a baseball, etc.).

Pointing is a better application of the wiimote than some of other stuff (such as the Mario jump referenced above), but I don't see why it's much better than aiming using a thumbstick. I'm not saying it ISN'T better, I just don't see it myself.

It's pretty simple.

(And, by the way, shaking the Wii Remote does not make Super Mario jump in Super Mario Galaxy.)
 
Of All Trades said:
This all assumes that an AAA wii title is, at this point, significantly cheaper. Especially for western devs who will be locked to one platform instead of three, and effectively barred from the third largest market (Japan), and who have spent the last 2-3 years building HD asset libraries and engines.

Big big assumption you are making. One that most people would probably call you out on right away and list several developer costs that automatically rise when talking about 360 and PS3 games. Let alone the starting cost of developing for the 360 and PS3 were already multiple times greater from just learning the new tech and getting an engine running.

Of All Trades said:
What I really think is that you're going to see western devs aggressively mimicing Nintendo's top selling titles, which means a flood of cheap minigames, training products, and last-gen rereleases/barely-improved-GC games coupled with extremely aggressive marketing and bundled plastic doodads. You aren't going to be seeing Super Mario Galaxy from anyone (including Nintendo).

Didn't some developers already try to do this? Well try and fail making very sub par versions and in turn sub par sales? When at the same time others tried something new like EA's Boom Blox or Capcom's Zac and Wiki actually did quite well?

Also since when are Nintendo's Wii offerings barely-improved GC games? And who are you to say they won't have a SMG quality game again? Seriously? :lol

viciouskillersquirrel said:
he only significant difference between the PS2 and the Wii libraries (2 years into their respective lifespans, naturally), is that there is only one publisher current putting their top content on the Wii.

Another significant difference is most of those developers were on board to make PS2 games from day -100. They bet on the right horse that time around and didn't have this 2 years of going "wtf just happened and why is the Wii selling so well?"

It really was just a matter of time before EA and other said things like this. Especially with he huge shift in Japan with games like MH and DQ. You can't tell me that if SE knew the Wii would have 50 million consoles out that they would still plan on making their games for the PS3. I mean they even had to go multiplat because of the changing of the guard. Add in the economy and you have some sticky situations for a lot of the industry.
 
professor_t said:
Pointing is a better application of the wiimote than some of other stuff (such as the Mario jump referenced above), but I don't see why it's much better than aiming using a thumbstick. I'm not saying it ISN'T better, I just don't see it myself.

You're not one of those guys who thinks a thumbstick is as good as a mouse too are you?
 
I have no faith in Western developers on Wii, period. It's like expecting them to be good on PSP/DS, won't happen.

When Japan makes some intresting announcements like DQX, etc I think that's when Wii can start to shine. But the problem is that it's competing with the PSP/DS in the low budget/niche game department right now.

I have no doubt EA like Ubi or the majority of Western devs will make some cheap cash in trash missing the point of the system. The Wii is not in the Western development DNA and this will show time and time again.
 
Hwang Seong-Gyeong said:
I have no faith in Western developers on Wii, period. It's like expecting them to be good on PSP/DS, won't happen.

When Japan makes some intresting announcements like DQX, etc I think that's when Wii can start to shine. But the problem is that it's competing with the PSP/DS in the low budget/niche game department right now.

I have no doubt EA like Ubi or the majority of Western devs will make some cheap cash in trash missing the point of the system. The Wii is not in the Western development DNA and this will show time and time again.

Completely agree.

EDIT: Well, that Wii is competing with DS/PSP I do not agree with.
 
professor_t said:
Sorry, I was using "waggle" as a blanket term to describe whatever the hell it is one does with a wiimote (pointing at the screen to shoot stuff, shaking it to make Mario jump, flicking the wrist to throw a baseball, etc.).

Pointing is a better application of the wiimote than some of other stuff (such as the Mario jump referenced above), but I don't see why it's much better than aiming using a thumbstick. I'm not saying it ISN'T better, I just don't see it myself.
So you don't see how a mouse might provide better aiming than a thumbstick? It's the same principle - Direct control vs differential control i.e. with both keyboard and Wiimote, you directly control the position of the cursor whereas with an analog stick you're actually controlling the velocity of the cursor and the game performs an integration operation to find position.

Positional control allows you much greater control over a game (wherein the position of the cursor is usually more important than its velocity) than differential control.

If you don't like it because you're not used to it, that's fine. It is inherently superior for the application, however.
 
Hwang Seong-Gyeong said:
I have no faith in Western developers on Wii, period. It's like expecting them to be good on PSP/DS, won't happen.

Oh come on, EA is on the right tracks. Henry Hatsworth in the Puzzling Adventure seems to be very cool game and it's from EA. Believe.
 
DQX isn't an interesting announcement at all. Japan is actually pretty shit for the most part with the Wii. They just put the same games you have on other consoles on the Wii.

I'm going back to Boom Blox here, but don't think I'm saying it's the ultimate answer or anything. It's a western made game, it's by EA, it is one of the few Wii games that could only be done on the Wii, makes use of all aspects of the Wii to great effect, and is really damn good. I want more things like that on the system. I don't literally mean another puzzle game, but things that take advantage of why the Wii is good. That Final Fantasy CC game shown last week already interests me more as a Wii game than DQX, assuming DQX is another turned based RPG. More or less the same deal with Monster Hunter 3.
 
Hwang Seong-Gyeong said:
I have no faith in Western developers on Wii, period. It's like expecting them to be good on PSP/DS, won't happen.

When Japan makes some intresting announcements like DQX, etc I think that's when Wii can start to shine. But the problem is that it's competing with the PSP/DS in the low budget/niche game department right now.

I have no doubt EA like Ubi or the majority of Western devs will make some cheap cash in trash missing the point of the system. The Wii is not in the Western development DNA and this will show time and time again.

Yeah I see what your saying but a part of me wants to say they will come around. From the cool things people are doing with Wiiware like Swords and Soldiers to LIT. If developers would just see that things like 3rd person shooter (where the fuck is a Wii shooter and a cover system? No not Rogue Trooper), rts or a sweet on rails shooter like S&P2 and others that would obviously work with the Wii and its pointer they could do some really neat things and not be quirky about it.

Hell just straight up rip off some games. Make a epic TD game like Locks Quest. I just don't think they have spent much time researching what actually works on the Wii. They got caught up in the mindset of "waggle or go home". Really its "pointer or go home" then add in a little sprinkle of waggle action just for certain functions that aren't just button replacements. If EA took the controls from The Godfather and put them in really any action type game redid the aiming to have real IR and put in slightly improved melee I'd buy it day 1 right now.
 
So EA is dropping its fresh focus on new IPs and experiments so quickly then? If so then it's really sad. It seems like we're heading towards a shift in the last part of this generation where a large part of it will be a concentrated focus on Wii shovelware. It will be interesting to see if the gaming industry can recover from a potential collective intellectual snooze, or if the independent devs who wants to push themselves can hold that part of the industry together in the mean time.
 
bj00rn_ said:
So EA is dropping its fresh focus on new IPs and experiments so quickly then? If so then it's really sad. It seems like we're heading towards a shift in the last part of this generation where a large part of it will be a concentrated focus on Wii shovelware. It will be interesting to see if the gaming industry can recover from a potential collective intellectual snooze, or if the independent devs who wants to push themselves can hold that part of the industry together in the mean time.

...

You know what? I take back what I said earlier. This is much WORSE than reading a conservative Republican blog.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
Hey now.

Computer Space was made in 71.

1971-2009

Oh, come on now... it goes back earlier than THAT. We can get back to the mid-60s at least... if not earlier.
 
bj00rn_ said:
So EA is dropping its fresh focus on new IPs and experiments so quickly then?

Wut ? You can't make new IPs and experiments on Wii ?

It seems like we're heading towards a shift in the last part of this generation where a large part of it will be a concentrated focus on Wii shovelware.

Is it really that unimaginable that Wii could have real core games ? EA shift focus to Wii = shovelware, ahoy !
 
bj00rn_ said:
So EA is dropping its fresh focus on new IPs and experiments so quickly then? If so then it's really sad. It seems like we're heading towards a shift in the last part of this generation where a large part of it will be a concentrated focus on Wii shovelware. It will be interesting to see if the gaming industry can recover from a potential collective intellectual snooze, or if the independent devs who wants to push themselves can hold that part of the industry together in the mean time.

Wow... I really don't see how focusing on Wii can somehow mean what you're implying. Total BS actually.
 
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