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EA: "We lost some fans with Dragon Age 2"
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VisanidethDM
Banned
Chairman Yang said:
Now this is a perspective I can understand. In fact, I feel the same way. Origins was an exceptionally bad examplar of a superior kind of game.
Chairman Yang said:
1000 times this. The absolute biggest complaint about Origins is the total lack of balance in the combat. Once you get past level 10 you can straight up break the game with ease. The new skills in awakening were even worse. It was like they never even tested them.
Lack of enemy variety, a snorefest of a plot, and limited character building are all a distant second to the game balance.
Origins did have some good companion characters which is more than I can say for Bioware's other games.
VisanidethDM
Banned
Wolves Evolve said:
Now, DA2's story is more complex than Origins. I think it shows some effort - they tried to do their own thing instead of ripping something else off, and the result is meh, but still, a lot more happens in DA2 than in DA:O. For better or worse.
They also got something right with combat, and I think if they did what they did to character building while slowing down the game, instead of speeding it up, maybe we would have reacted differently.
Fact remains that the core problem of DA2 is that it's not a finished game. It's a rushed, incomplete job, even before accounting its design flaws.
One thing I'd suggest Bioware is... you've never been good at combat, nor at balance, nor at encounter design. You could pull off a pause and play system when you were building on an already designed and balanced combat system (D&D). Since you're struggling now... slow things down. Don't make combat faster. If needed, go full turn based. Stop struggling with coding and waves and such, and move towards a ToEE format.
Wolves Evolve
Member
VisanidethDM said:
Excellently put. Dragon Age was a bad facsimile of a deep set of concepts, but you got the idea as you went through it.
Projectjustice
Banned
Why was DA2 so bad?
I don't get why fan opinions matter now when they clearly didn't matter before DA2 was released or right after DA:O was released when everyone listed their issues with it. I fully expect them not to learn anything from DA2 and then once again act surprised people don't like it. Then again people will still buy DA3 even after complaining about DA2 (I didn't care for DA:O in the end so I didn't even touch DA2). If anything those people deserve to be taken advantage of by EA as they keep going back to be abused. The only thing EA will understand is money. Just don't buy DA3 or wait until it's out and rent it. Reviews clearly can not be trusted.
Projectjustice said:
My post from the DA2 thread the other day:
- Bland uninspired graphics.
- 3 locations for the entire game.
- Rushed soundtrack.
- The city never changes or evolves over the spa of 10 years(Dude still lives in a trashed house for 10 years!).
- Characters that don't see each other for years act like they only saw them a week ago.
- Terrible, abrupt ending.
- The choices mean nothing. [big spoilers]
Take your sister/brother into the mines, they die. Don't take them, they leave for the rest of the game. Help Anders and he blows shit up, don't help him and he blows shit up anyway. Side with the mages, you fight the mage leader anyway. Non-loyal Character turned on me at the end. I said one thing and he came back to my side.
- Annoying wave base enemies that pop-in and drag out battles like a fucker.
VisanidethDM
Banned
Projectjustice said:
It wasn't bad. In fact, it was an amazing game, full of exciting behind-the-.scenes action and a fantastic second/third hand story masterfully hinted at in cutscenes.
Go buy it now.
You won't regret it.
I promise.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Wolves Evolve said:
Yeah. DAO - A better product in terms of value and polish, but generic as fuck, were DA2 had the better characters and the occasional cool idea/music/art design/hawke/something something, but was just so inconsistent as fuck.
My first playthrough of DAO: "omg this is amazing luuuuuuurrrrrrrllll"
Then second playthrough, the smell of reality smeared it's head. Suddenly I could see the truth in what people were saying about it being childish fantasy for 8 years old. The entire setting, enemies and story was dumb and generic.
The whole ordeal around both Dragon Age's that Bioware tried to do was making mature fantasy. They kept repeating it trying to pull a "Dark Knight". But that shit didn't fly.
It does not matter how much blood and curse words they put in. Even if one wanted to measure a mature sadistic "cool" violent fantasy world, nothing in Dragon Age can even be put in the same league as Conan, A Song of Ice and Fire or Berserk(the three most violent that I know).
But why does it matter, about violence? they could have made a kick ass fantasy game without flashing all their gore. The Witcher does this better, and now hardcore gamers seem to have no problems playing favorites with a new cool RPG development studio.
Bioware grew partially dumb before the EA buyout.
It's all in the past now. Dragon Age 2 is insignificant compared to what they have at stake with SWTOR, and judging from the mixed e3 impressions, we might be into a Final Fantasy: Spirits Within type failure that could cast a dark shadow on the studio.
The desicion to give voice acting(due to inspiration from Shepard speaking in ME) to every single class + gender combo, has made that SWTOR have 16 leading actors/acresses in one game. The gigantic cost of this is fucked, I'm sure.
I really wouldn't want to be in there shoes. The only thing worse than getting your head chewed over by a bunch of angry MMO fans, is getting your head chewed of by a bunch of angry MMO fans, Star Wars fans and Bioware fans, at the same time. Three times the fail, and EA paid for it all the way to the grave.
Damn. Statement slimes downhill into something quite different and obnoxious.
Trash. What you did with the game indicates that you weren't enthusiastic about it as a game, let alone that you were capable of or interested in some kind of empathic frisson with your customers about what makes RPGs or games in general good.
It was an experiment. You can't criticise experiments. You can't rag on the spirit of adventure. We are a brave company.
This just means people bought the game. Likely, a bunch of them disliked and traded it. You don't know how many fans the game created.
The folks who didn't like our game are those stereotypical traditionalist obstinate nerd-ragers. lol.
Trash. What you did with the game indicates that you weren't enthusiastic about it as a game, let alone that you were capable of or interested in some kind of empathic frisson with your customers about what makes RPGs or games in general good.
It was an experiment. You can't criticise experiments. You can't rag on the spirit of adventure. We are a brave company.
This just means people bought the game. Likely, a bunch of them disliked and traded it. You don't know how many fans the game created.
The folks who didn't like our game are those stereotypical traditionalist obstinate nerd-ragers. lol.
When I think about my enjoyment of Bioware games...
I didn't like Mass Effect 2 as much as I loved Mass Effect 1. The entire end sequence of ME2 was insipid. The entire middle portion of ME2 was inconsequential. The end boss is something special. I came to hate ME2 when I finished my second playthrough (insanity)...I literally haven't cared to watch any of the recent ME3 trailers, read any of the recent ME3 info, or view any of the ME3 pictures...yet I still planned on buying it? Why? I think I'll just move on and read the spoiler thread
Dragon Age Origins is a game that I liked but never got the chance to finish. I started replaying it on PC and loved the way it played, then the EA Online activation fucked up and I lost access to all of my DLC that I payed for. After numerous uninstalls, restarts, service installs, logouts, fucking with files, and general tomfoolery I finally managed to get the DLC working again. Now I don't give a rats ass about the game and have no desire to continue playing it.
Star Wars TOR is a MMO. I play EVE super casually and enjoy and I do not like WoW and constantly find myself uninstalling the game. From what I can see, this game is KOTOR+WoW and I'm not sure how long that will last with me (KOTOR was also the game where I lost my save after falling into the Carth/Mission glitch and never got to see the final 10% of the game, I am still bitter about that).
Dragon Age 2 looked from the start to be a severe regression from Dragon Age Origins which was a feeling that was compounded by NEVER giving you a single substantial dialog option that had ANY consequence whatsoever during the entire intro sequence. Literally every single choice was A. Say yes is a nice way, B. Say yes in a snarky way, C. Say yes in a dismissive way. None of the dialog was well written, none of the characters were interesting, none of the moments that should have evoked emotion did anything for me. I stopped playing in Act 1 and haven't looked back. Hearing that the final choices you make in the game are all ignored (since the game makes you fight characters from the organization that you sided against as well as making you fight the people that you sided with) didn't surprise me in the fucking slightest.
I loved the Neverwinter Nights engine and the expansion pack campaigns...those and Mass Effect 1 were the last Bioware games that I really loved. I don't know what I'm going to do from now on but I will definitely be looking closely at their future games before I spend a dime. No more blind buys from me.
I didn't like Mass Effect 2 as much as I loved Mass Effect 1. The entire end sequence of ME2 was insipid. The entire middle portion of ME2 was inconsequential. The end boss is something special. I came to hate ME2 when I finished my second playthrough (insanity)...I literally haven't cared to watch any of the recent ME3 trailers, read any of the recent ME3 info, or view any of the ME3 pictures...yet I still planned on buying it? Why? I think I'll just move on and read the spoiler thread
Dragon Age Origins is a game that I liked but never got the chance to finish. I started replaying it on PC and loved the way it played, then the EA Online activation fucked up and I lost access to all of my DLC that I payed for. After numerous uninstalls, restarts, service installs, logouts, fucking with files, and general tomfoolery I finally managed to get the DLC working again. Now I don't give a rats ass about the game and have no desire to continue playing it.
Star Wars TOR is a MMO. I play EVE super casually and enjoy and I do not like WoW and constantly find myself uninstalling the game. From what I can see, this game is KOTOR+WoW and I'm not sure how long that will last with me (KOTOR was also the game where I lost my save after falling into the Carth/Mission glitch and never got to see the final 10% of the game, I am still bitter about that).
Dragon Age 2 looked from the start to be a severe regression from Dragon Age Origins which was a feeling that was compounded by NEVER giving you a single substantial dialog option that had ANY consequence whatsoever during the entire intro sequence. Literally every single choice was A. Say yes is a nice way, B. Say yes in a snarky way, C. Say yes in a dismissive way. None of the dialog was well written, none of the characters were interesting, none of the moments that should have evoked emotion did anything for me. I stopped playing in Act 1 and haven't looked back. Hearing that the final choices you make in the game are all ignored (since the game makes you fight characters from the organization that you sided against as well as making you fight the people that you sided with) didn't surprise me in the fucking slightest.
I loved the Neverwinter Nights engine and the expansion pack campaigns...those and Mass Effect 1 were the last Bioware games that I really loved. I don't know what I'm going to do from now on but I will definitely be looking closely at their future games before I spend a dime. No more blind buys from me.
Rekki-Maru
Banned
that's too bad they messed up the franchise, they should've just put more effort and resources into DR2 the first time thru..make it count. oh, but i guess it's cool because now they're listening..lol
universalmind
Member
EA said:
lol
Interfectum
Gold Member
hahaha well that's one way to put it...
I am so disgusted with EA's attempts to spin so-so action RPG's into GODLIKE GAMES that I am now officially boycotting the Dragon Age series. I will console myself by shoving an endless stream of quarters into AD&D: Shadow Over Mystara, because even though it is old, it is a BETTER game.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
The combat isn't that fun in these games. It was good 10 - 15 years ago, but now it just seems like MMO gameplay, similar to something like Guild Wars. That's not good enough. Cooldowns are worse than turn based.
That's what's wrong with the series. You can't tweak it, it just needs to go.
That's what's wrong with the series. You can't tweak it, it just needs to go.
VisanidethDM
Banned
Blackace said:
Don't worry, I'm being sarcastic
.
D
Deleted member 81567
Unconfirmed Member
Moral of the story, Bioware makes insipid sequels.
VisanidethDM
Banned
Lyphen said:
My opinion on DA2 is all over the place. On its own it's terrible. I merely think Origins is worse.
That message was meant to be a sarcastic poke at a few of the game's flaws - including all the "remember all the amazing things we did in these 3 years players didn't get to play? I know right?" bs.
sixteen-bit
Member
I wonder if they saw the shit mountain thread.
DA 3 will have multiplayer (they'll find a way), "accessible" UI designed only for controllers, "accessible" lack of trees/stats/skills other than linear damage-dealing awesome powers, and "accessible" awesome combat truly at the press of a single button. I won't be surprised to see a first person view while hurling fireballs/arrows. Calling it now.
I loved DAO so much the abomination that was DA2 really hurt, even this day and age that I expect everything to be simplified action versions of what could have been decent games.
Sure, generic world, and perhaps the craving for old school tactical combat clouded my view of it, but I loved DAO anyway.
Loved how it was unbalanced, sudden easy opponents, sudden hard encounters, magic dominating after a point, as it fucking should be. Loved the care and detail the world had, being generic didn't detract from it being rich. Loved the absence of somersaults, tumbling and "awesome action."
All of the above are anathema for current game design, so no, 3 won't have me giving them my money, that's a near certainty.
I loved DAO so much the abomination that was DA2 really hurt, even this day and age that I expect everything to be simplified action versions of what could have been decent games.
Sure, generic world, and perhaps the craving for old school tactical combat clouded my view of it, but I loved DAO anyway.
Loved how it was unbalanced, sudden easy opponents, sudden hard encounters, magic dominating after a point, as it fucking should be. Loved the care and detail the world had, being generic didn't detract from it being rich. Loved the absence of somersaults, tumbling and "awesome action."
All of the above are anathema for current game design, so no, 3 won't have me giving them my money, that's a near certainty.
Sir Garbageman
Member
Vigilant Walrus said:
Agreed. The bones are there for a solid game in DA2 but it was rushed as hell so we got a half finished product. Another 6 - 12 months to fix some of its glaring issues and it could've been a really solid game, in it's current state not so much. I actually enjoyed the game but I'll freely admit it was a disappointment considering the original.
I wonder with all these comments from EA / Bioware how DA2 was a mess if it will effect the DLC plans they had for it.
DigitalDevil
Member
I put over 100 hours into DA:O and loved every minute of it. I bought every bit of DLC and paid full price for Awakening also. To say I was hyped for DA2 is an understatement. The fact that, after reading numerous reviews and impressions I still haven't even purchased it, is telling. Fix yo game, guys. I really love this mythos but please don't fuck it up again.
No shit. Game was garbage. Biggest dissapointment of the year. I don't think there was a single thing it didn't do worse then the first one, something you might expect could happen at a small studio but not at EA and Bioware. They could have reskinned DA1 and it still would be a better game then 2.
This doesn't bode too well for Old Republic either.
Might pick up DA3 GOTY edition in the salesbin one day, but no more launch day buying for this budget franchise.
This doesn't bode too well for Old Republic either.
Might pick up DA3 GOTY edition in the salesbin one day, but no more launch day buying for this budget franchise.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
Aeana said:
How is the combat the same at all? DA2 you are fast, it is action-oriented, and you mash A.
I didn't mind DA2's combat, but didn't like the game at all.
Danne-Danger
Member
Baldur's Gate had multiplayer i.e. that would be a step in the right direction i.e. they won't include it.poisonelf said:
the madman
Neo Member
Ushojax said:
Devil May Cry 2
viewtifulsub
Member
Spookie said:
Palette Swap said:
poisonelf said:
Bioware's previous works, Baldur's Gate 1+2 and NWN, featured multiplayer. As long as it not along the lines of ME3's (potentially) capture the flag or horde modes; would it exactly be a big suprise, and why nitpick?
EA might run Bioware into the ground when Old Republic flops.
Already Biowares talent is spread thing and they keep making the same game (Kotor) and just keep making it shorter and more action oriented every time. Not that ME2 was bad, in fact i loved it, but their RPG's have been kind of meh lately. DA1 was step in the right RPG direction, but then EA Mass Effected (on 1/10 of the budget I bet) it and we got dogpoo.
Old Republic looks exactly like WoW with some shoehorned Biowareness, it doesn't break the mold in any way. Could be the next MMO failure for EA and a huge blow for Bioware if it fails.
Already Biowares talent is spread thing and they keep making the same game (Kotor) and just keep making it shorter and more action oriented every time. Not that ME2 was bad, in fact i loved it, but their RPG's have been kind of meh lately. DA1 was step in the right RPG direction, but then EA Mass Effected (on 1/10 of the budget I bet) it and we got dogpoo.
Old Republic looks exactly like WoW with some shoehorned Biowareness, it doesn't break the mold in any way. Could be the next MMO failure for EA and a huge blow for Bioware if it fails.
