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[Septimius]

I don't know if it's been posted, but I went back to the EULA in question and read through it.

I skimmed through what seemed irrelevant - seems most of the relevant stuff in question is this:

2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware, that may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services. EA may also use this information combined with personal information for marketing purposes and to improve our products and services.

Can't really see anything about any website monitoring. The other stuff, while it makes me cringe, I guess is rather standard. It seems that there's a grey-area in this EULA, with the wording that EA may monitor software usage. I read that as they can monitor how you use their software, not what software you use generally.

EDIT: Did anyone even care to check if what was claimed is even true?

 

[HDgaming42]

Where's the opt-out? That's what I can't believe. Sure, many people won't care--and they won't opt out! EA'll have plenty of data to munch on without having to resort to offending those of us who care.

Just let those of us who care get off your insane merry-go-round. Problem solved.

 

[HDgaming42]

I skimmed through what seemed irrelevant.

Did anyone even care to check if what was claimed is even true?

Hmmmmmm...

Not to call you out specifically--just found it humorous.

I couldn't care less what they're tracking--I want them to stop. Where's my opt-out EA?

 

[Septimius]

Hmmmmmm...

Not to call you out specifically--just found it humorous.

I couldn't care less what they're tracking--I want them to stop. Where's my opt-out EA?

Your opt-out is not using Origin.

And yes, I really, really don't care enough that EA does what all other companies are doing, to read all of the 10 pages with stuff like "TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMISSIBLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, THE APPLICATION IS PROVIDED TO YOU “AS IS,” WITH ALL FAULTS, WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, WITHOUT PERFORMANCE ASSURANCES OR GUARANTEES OF ANY KIND, AND YOUR USE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. THE ENTIRE RISK OF SATISFACTORY QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE RESIDES WITH YOU. EA AND EA’S LICENSORS (COLLECTIVELY EA FOR PURPOSES OF THIS SECTION AND SECTION 6) DO NOT MAKE, AND HEREBY DISCLAIM, ANY AND ALL EXPRESS, IMPLIED OR STATUTORY WARRANTIES, INCLUDING IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF CONDITION, UNINTERRUPTED USE, MERCHANTABILITY, SATISFACTORY QUALITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT OF THIRD PARTY RIGHTS, AND WARRANTIES (IF ANY) ARISING FROM A COURSE OF DEALING, USAGE, OR TRADE PRACTICE."

It obviously isn't relevant, and I skimmed through it in search of relevant information. I said I skimmed through it to point out that it certainly is possible that they keep their evilest stuff hidden in a pile of upper case characters and otherwise seemingly legal mumbo jumbo - but I find that highly unlikely, even for EA. Once you've read some EULAs you know where to look.

 

[HDgaming42]

Your opt-out is not using Origin.

Maybe for you friend.

Quoting myself for the new page:

In Canada we have a law that appears to disagree.

4.3.3
An organization shall not, as a condition of the supply of a product
or service, require an individual to consent to the collection, use, or
disclosure of information beyond that required to fulfil [sic] the explicitly
specified, and legitimate purposes.

I would like to see the argument made that scanning for anything beyond potential piracy is a "legitimate purpose" to deliver me the service.

IANAL, but that seems to translate to me as "you cannot deny me use of Origin because I take issue with being data-mined for the sole purpose of...god only knows what you and your third party friends have in store for me. I pay for your game. You cannot prohibit me from playing said game by demanding I subject myself to data mining of any kind as a condition of the sale.

Frankly, I'm surprised with the Government we've got this law is still standing...

 

[Septimius]

Maybe for you friend.

Quoting myself for the new page:


I would like to see the argument made that scanning for anything beyond potential piracy is a "legitimate purpose" to deliver me the service.

That's quite easy. Origin is about being able to give you what you need. It collects data about what users use what hardware to use it as a sort of 'live QA', if there are recurring problems with certain hardware configurations, they can know about it.

They do not say that they're scanning for piracy, nor are they. The way I understand the EULA, it also does only say that it monitors EA software for purposes of improving the Origin service provided to you. They say "[the information] may be gathered periodically to facilitate the provision of software updates, dynamically served content, product support and other services to you, including online services."

That is what Origin is. They have their full right to do this, even by Canadian laws.

Of course, that is the way I understand the EULA. It seems some other guy has had another interpretation over on the Escapist forums, but it seems reaaaally far-fetched that they're doing what he claims by reading those lines in the EULA.

This is all just a red herring.

That is why your opt-out is not using Origin. Origin is a service that is built up around the idea of using that type of information to improve the user-experience. If you don't like it, you don't use it.

IANAL, but that seems to translate to me as "you cannot deny me use of Origin because I take issue with being data-mined for the sole purpose of...god only knows what you and your third party friends have in store for me. I pay for your game. You cannot prohibit me from playing said game by demanding I subject myself to data mining of any kind as a condition of the sale.

Frankly, I'm surprised with the Government we've got this law is still standing...

See above. They're explicitly stating why they're gathering the data they're gathering. It isn't "god only knows what". Is it so that there are some EA games you simply cannot play if you don't have Origins installed? I know it is EA's way of delivering patches, but outside of that? If that is the case, then it's a bit more intricate, but even in that case, it can be claimed that you have purchased a piece of software wherein one of the cornerstones is Origin and the services that entail. It is certainly a lot more easy to back up than the 'always online'-DRM other companies have.

 

[Curufinwe]

Can't really see anything about any website monitoring.

I wondered where that came from that when I read the start of this thread earlier today.

 

[Fugu]

That is why your opt-out is not using Origin. Origin is a service that is built up around the idea of using that type of information to improve the user-experience. If you don't like it, you don't use it.

But this isn't made explicit at the point of sale; I'm not forced to examine this EULA when I buy the product. Rather, it is subjected upon me after I try to use the product that I've already paid for and subsequently opened, thereby losing the ability to even return that product.

 

[Im_Special]

Checking Origin.exe with Process Monitor and looks like there's talking with amazon, that EA probably just making some sweet under the table money deals.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

http://i.imgur.com/77kL2.png[/IG]

Checking Origin.exe with Process Monitor and looks like there's talking with amazon, that EA probably just making some sweet under the table money deals.[/QUOTE]

dun dun dun

 

[Septimius]

But this isn't made explicit at the point of sale; I'm not forced to examine this EULA when I buy the product. Rather, it is subjected upon me after I try to use the product that I've already paid for and subsequently opened, thereby losing the ability to even return that product.

That's why I'm curious if there are some games that simply do not work without Origin. If that is the case, then yes, it's a bit hairier. But still, we're left with someone seemingly having misinterpreted EAs EULA in the worst manner possible, without any proof that they are at all doing anything of the things claimed in OP. To me it looks like the type of thing ANY of these softwares do, and thusly have an EULA probably saying the exact same thing - but we're not fuming over having to use Steam when we play games.

 

[echoshifting]

Can't really see anything about any website monitoring. The other stuff, while it makes me cringe, I guess is rather standard. It seems that there's a grey-area in this EULA, with the wording that EA may monitor software usage. I read that as they can monitor how you use their software, not what software you use generally.

EDIT: Did anyone even care to check if what was claimed is even true?

Nope, nine pages and you're the first person to ask.

The clause effectively gives them permission to scan your entire hard drive. If your computer is keeping track of what websites you're using and storing it anywhere (and unless you go well out of your way to prevent this, it does), the clause gives them access to your web history. It's a broad, vague clause for a reason.

"Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal)"

...it's right there. Anything related to any application stored on your drive.

Furthermore, the EULA clearly states their intent to share this with third parties. This, to me, is the enormous difference between what Origin is doing vs. what Blizzard or Valve do.

 

[whatsinaname]

[IM]http://i.imgur.com/77kL2.png[/IMG]

Checking Origin.exe with Process Monitor and looks like there's talking with amazon, that EA probably just making some sweet under the table money deals.

Amazon AWS is Amazon's cloud hosting service. Nothing to do with Amazon.com.

 

[Huevos de Oro]

Well, that's pretty bad. I've never had Origin installed, and by the looks of it, I won't be having it anytime soon.

 

[Septimius]

I took a look at the Steam EULA. This is the first interesting tid-bit I found

7. USER GENERATED INFORMATION

"User Generated Information" means any information made available to other users through your use of multi-user features of Steam or to Valve through your use of the Software. User Generated Information may include, but is not limited to, chat, forum posts, screen names, game selections, player performances, usage data, suggestions about Valve products or services, and error notifications. Subject to the Valve privacy policy referenced in Section 1 above, as applicable, you expressly grant Valve the complete and irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind.

It says that if you chat with someone on Steam, Steam can use whatever you chat about. Yes, if you chat about your game idea to someone on Steam, it is stated in the EULA that Steam may steal your idea and use it without even telling you or giving you credit.

Seems equally easy to make this big of a deal out of that part of that EULA.

Checking Origin.exe with Process Monitor and looks like there's talking with amazon, that EA probably just making some sweet under the table money deals.

Well, what did the packet contain?

 

[Fugu]

but we're not fuming over having to use Steam when we play games.

I don't know about you, but I use Steam as little as possible. I hate it. And if it contained the same provision within its EULA, I wouldn't use it at all.

This isn't an issue of someone interpreting an EULA badly; this is an issue of an EULA being written in a way that explicitly grants EA the right to collect data that has nothing to do with the game that mandates that that software (henceforth refered to as "spyware") be used. It's ridiculous, and it traps uninformed customers into either entering a grey area of the law or losing a significant amount of privacy if they want to use the software that they've paid for.

 

[Spehornoob]

Oh shit. Well, there goes any chance that I would get Origin. No way am I letting EA check out my incestuous tentacle hentai bookmark and sell that info.

Only GAF can know.

(I hope TOR doesn't require Origin. I'd hate to skip out on it.)

 

[D4Danger]

http://i.imgur.com/77kL2.png[IMG]

Checking Origin.exe with Process Monitor and looks like there's talking with amazon, that EA probably just making some sweet under the table money deals.[/QUOTE]

AWS is Amazon's cloud storage services

thousands of companies use it and it has nothing to do with this.

 

[HDgaming42]

They have their full right to do this, even by Canadian laws.

Of course, that is the way I understand the EULA. It seems some other guy has had another interpretation over on the Escapist forums, but it seems reaaaally far-fetched that they're doing what he claims by reading those lines in the EULA.

Thank you for your explanation--however nowhere in your explanation did you touch on any of the things I'd take issue with--the potential uses that EA could use this EULA for--the things we're discussing.

Let me explain when I said I couldn't care less about what they're scanning. Truthfully I wish they'd scan nothing. However I can understand their desire (not need) to scan hardware. Do I really think they're going to devote man-hours to getting my games to run better on a Quadro FX1800? Seriously? Cause that's what they'll scan.

I'm sure legally they could make the argument they need to scan hardware. Fine. What I feel they need to do is to change the EULA to explicitly state they are only scanning what is theirs, and what is loaded actively in memory (as I'm learning this is a standard practice?). I do very very very little online gaming so this is foreign territory to me.

 

[legend166]

Someone get Wireshark cracking and actually look at what is in the packets.

 

[Septimius]

This isn't an issue of someone interpreting an EULA badly; this is an issue of an EULA being written in a way that explicitly grants EA the right to collect data that has nothing to do with the game that mandates that that software (henceforth refered to as "spyware") be used. It's ridiculous, and it traps uninformed customers into either entering a grey area of the law or losing a significant amount of privacy if they want to use the software that they've paid for.

Here's the same snippet from Valve Privacy Policy

By using Valve's online sites and products, users agree that Valve may collect aggregate information, individual information, and personally identifiable information, as defined below. Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties. Valve shall not share personally identifiable information with other parties, except as described in the policy below.

"Aggregate information" is information that describes the habits, usage patterns, and demographics of users as a group but does not describe or reveal the identity of any particular user.

"Individual information" is information about a user that is presented in a form distinguishable from information relating to other users but not in a form that personally identifies any user or enables the recipient to communicate directly with any user unless agreed to by the user in advance of such communication. This information may be used to improve Valve's products and online sites, for internal marketing studies, or simply to collect demographic information about Valve's users.

Valve even says they can SHARE the information they gather with third parties. The EA EULA states it will not share it. And when you say "habits, usage patterns, and demographics", I'd say that includes your habits when browsing. It doesn't say that's not what it means. Is that another grey-zone, just because we can choose to misinterpret it? No.

 

[LowParry]

In the end, we all lose.

 

[HDgaming42]

They're explicitly stating why they're gathering the data they're gathering. It isn't "god only knows what". Is it so that there are some EA games you simply cannot play if you don't have Origins installed?

Right. Because I'll be able to monitor and ensure they're only using my data in the ways they've outlined.

BF3--of which I have a preorder--is apparently going to require this albatross.

You know what people do with data once they have it? Whatever the hell they want.

 

[Septimius]

Thank you for your explanation--however nowhere in your explanation did you touch on any of the things I'd take issue with--the potential uses that EA could use this EULA for--the things we're discussing.

Let me explain when I said I couldn't care less about what they're scanning. Truthfully I wish they'd scan nothing. However I can understand their desire (not need) to scan hardware. Do I really think they're going to devote man-hours to getting my games to run better on a Quadro FX1800? Seriously? Cause that's what they'll scan.

I'm sure legally they could make the argument they need to scan hardware. Fine. What I feel they need to do is to change the EULA to explicitly state they are only scanning what is theirs, and what is loaded actively in memory (as I'm learning this is a standard practice?). I do very very very little online gaming so this is foreign territory to me.

Yes, they'll spend man-hours on fixing a game making 10% of people that own Quadro FX1800 crash. The information on what hardware you're running on what operating system is vital to chasing down the problem.

Let's break down the "bad part" together:

"You agree that EA may collect, use, store and transmit technical and related information" - Here they specify what type of information they may collect. Technical and related.

"that identifies your computer (including the Internet Protocol Address), operating system, " - IP, OS.

"Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal), " - "Application" (capital A) is defined first in the EULA as pretty much Origin

"software, software usage and peripheral hardware" - Here is what people are running around screaming about. What does software mean? What does software usage mean??

It means how you use your games. Just like Steam (see above posts) can steal your game ideas and track the performance you get out of your Quadro FX1800, EA can track the performance you get too. The fact that it does not explicitly state that this means THEIR software (although it seemingly does) - it is still bound by the EULA to only be collection of 'technical and relevant' information. They say what they're doing and why they're doing it - they cannot perform any kind of scams with this EULA.

Combined with the fact that the 'amazon' packets we saw earlier are really Amazon's cloud storage means that there is likely little fishy going on. Even if there was something fishy, you find way worse in many EULAs. This is just a big deal because finally someone decided to read one of them, and wasn't able to interpret it right.

Personally, I find the fact that Steam states in their privacy agreement that they can steal your game ideas if you discuss them in the Steam chat to be way worse than EA having a banner of Hello Kitty Island 2 on their Origin home page just because I played Hello Kitty Island 1

 

[Septimius]

Right. Because I'll be able to monitor and ensure they're only using my data in the ways they've outlined. Could you explain to me what their 3rd party friends are going to do with my data? I'm a little hazy on that one. I'm sure it's all there in the EULA--just point it out to me please.

I posted it already, but here it is explicitly, straight from the EULA:

"We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you. "

And why is it a problem that you're not able to check what they're monitoring? That is exactly what the EULA is for. They're telling you up front what they're doing so you know what they're doing. They can't just start doing a bunch of illegal things just because you've signed that they can do a bunch of legal things.

 

[HDgaming42]

Yes, they'll spend man-hours on fixing a game making 10% of people that own Quadro FX1800 crash. The information on what hardware you're running on what operating system is vital to chasing down the problem.

Is this satire? Are you serious? I can't tell...

No sane publisher is going to devote time to fixing gaming performance on a QuadroFX 1800. There is NO return on investment. None. I am using a CAD card, to game. That is foolish. When they mine that, I pray they declare "that is foolish".

If they devote more time to fixing my Quadro performance than fixing my LOGIN ISSUES I will be furious.

Let's break down the "bad part" together:

Condescension adds nothing to a discussion. This is where I stopped reading your post.

 

[Wurdfurd]

I just cancelled my BF3 preorder and uninstalled Origin because im borderline paranoid (I'll probably end up buying it at retail anyways). While talking to the EA live help rep (always fun times) I asked about it several times and "Adam" wouldn't comment on it at all.

Why can't I just throw a game on the computer and open it without all this BS anymore?

 

[HDgaming42]

And why is it a problem that you're not able to check what they're monitoring?

Why is is not a problem for you? We are right back at post #301. I am going to go do something productive with my evening. Thanks for your time.

 

[Keasar]

Why can't I just throw a game on the computer and open it without all this BS anymore?

Because in one twisted event of planetary alignment, every single (maybe not all, hopefully) goddamn publisher out there suddenly became paranoid and silly. Now everyone who uses a PC is a pirate, now they are in charge of game developments because "market research are the best way to design games", now people apparently are too stupid and casual for anything in gaming more hardcore then RISK and publishers and retailers now hates each others guts while developers ask each other "What the hell is going on?". We live in weird times my brother.

 

[Septimius]

Is this satire? Are you serious? I can't tell...

No sane publisher is going to devote time to fixing gaming performance on a QuadroFX 1800. There is NO return on investment. None. I am using a CAD card, to game. That is foolish. When they mine that, I pray they declare "that is foolish".

If they devote more time to fixing my Quadro performance than fixing my LOGIN ISSUES I will be furious.


Condescension adds nothing to a discussion. This is where I stopped reading your post.

There is no condescension. You asked me to point it out to you. You asked me to point out what the problem was, and what they would do with your info in regards to third parties, but I didn't put it right? You misread me saying "the bad part" as an insult of your character?

And again, we're back to the age-old argument that "they're not fixing the problem they should be fixing". If, as I said, there turned out that 10% of everyone that owned your card couldn't play the game because of a bug, you bet your ass that's a high priority. While it might not have as high a priority as if 1% of all GTX 5xx users had problems, it is still a HUGE concern. I can tell you that these situations arise. You roll out a patch, and suddenly your "spyware" starts reporting a whole bunch of crashes. And it's the same type of hardware that crashes. That sucks, and that's something the guys that know how to fix that are gonna ignore.

That said, the guys that know that are also NOT the guys that will be fixing your login issues. So believe what you want, but this is how it works. If a new upgrade breaks the game, for any substantial amount of people, you fix it.

Why is is not a problem for you? We are right back at post #301. I am going to go do something productive with my evening. Thanks for your time.

Again, it is great the way you selectively read some of the things I say. Just because a company has had you sign that they can do something, which is completely inside the law, does not mean that they're covertedly planning to do something illegal. If they wanted to do something borderline illegal, they would've covered their asses like there was no tomorrow in the EULA. They tell you what they use the info to in the EULA, which means they are safe if someone decides to sue them over it - you think they're going to do something that's even worse, and break their own agreement and open themselves to be sued?

This isn't GameStop we're talking about here.

You seem to think that the fact that a company has gained your consent to gather some information about how you play your games and how your games work on your computer, they're setting out to figure out what your fetish is, by monitoring your searches at various porn sites, then blackmailing you for 10,000$ or else they'll tell your wife you're really into fish-scat-dominatrix stuff. It is also great that you've said you're going to do something constructive with your evening, as we both know you're reading this, right now.

 

[Dmax3901]

Ima wait this one out.

Update the OP when someone has looked into this properly and gets evidence that shows tomfoolery on EA's part.

 

[Septimius]

Nope, nine pages and you're the first person to ask.

The clause effectively gives them permission to scan your entire hard drive. If your computer is keeping track of what websites you're using and storing it anywhere (and unless you go well out of your way to prevent this, it does), the clause gives them access to your web history. It's a broad, vague clause for a reason.

"Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal)"

...it's right there. Anything related to any application stored on your drive.

No. This is where reading the entire things comes in handy. "Application" (capital A) means Origin. It is the second sentence of the EULA:
"This License governs your use of this application and all related software, documentation, and updates and upgrades that replace or supplement the application and are not distributed with a separate license (together, the “Application”)."

That is why there's a capital A there, when you see the thing in context.

Furthermore, the EULA clearly states their intent to share this with third parties. This, to me, is the enormous difference between what Origin is doing vs. what Blizzard or Valve do.

Well, Valve has this little sentence in their privacy policy
VALVE:
"Valve may share aggregate information and individual information with other parties."

VS

EA:
"We may also share that data with our third party service providers in a form that does not personally identify you."

You judge which is worse.

Again, this EULA does not say that they can do anything with your computer. It simply states that it collects info on the usage of the games ("software" in the EULA) and that it may use that to market something directly to you (like every place and their grandmother's blog - literally - do these days)

 

[Reuenthal]

Yeah after reading this thread I have to conclude that this is no big deal. However EA's game pricing news and rhetoric about how much sever space costs them or something that came out some weeks ago was a huge deal and very important to me anti consumer behavior.

 

[Duxxy3]

I've read most of this thread and want nothing to do with Origin.

 

[vaelic]

Don't use Origin

Problem solved.

not so easy. BF3 will be going through it

 

[Dmented]

I took a look at the Steam EULA. This is the first interesting tid-bit I found



It says that if you chat with someone on Steam, Steam can use whatever you chat about. Yes, if you chat about your game idea to someone on Steam, it is stated in the EULA that Steam may steal your idea and use it without even telling you or giving you credit.

Seems equally easy to make this big of a deal out of that part of that EULA.



Well, what did the packet contain?

Just like I would if I overheard you talking about an invention that would make a shit ton of cash. (BTW: By chat, it means public chat. Not person-to-person private chat.)

 

[benny_a]

"Application usage (including but not limited to successful installation and/or removal)"

...it's right there. Anything related to any application stored on your drive.

You are incorrect.
You need to read the first paragraph in any legal document to get the definition of Words.
Words with capital letters where they don't belong are basically variables.

Application is defined in the EULA as
"this application and all related software, documentation, and updates and upgrades that replace or supplement the application and are not distributed with a separate license"

Based on that "Application" means Origin plus maybe free programs that come with Origins as long as they don't come with a separate license. Games are unlikely to fall under it, as they usually include a proper license.
(See the product EULAs on their page where I think every EA franchise has their own license.)

Please read the EULA carefully. There are enough things wrong with it that we don't need to make it look worse by misrepresenting it.

[Edit: And I need to read the thread carefully as the post was already addressed three above mine. I was a bit too quick to hit reply.]

What? Origin monitors what websites you visit? WTF?

Purely conjecture at this point. Based on my reading of the EULA they are not allowing themselves to do that, given that the only time they mention anything other than Origin it's "software" in an enumeration. I doubt that gives them this much leeway. IANAL.

 

[Zzoram]

What? Origin monitors what websites you visit? WTF?

You have to opt-in to the Steam hardware survey IIRC.

 

[HDgaming42]

You misread me saying "the bad part" as an insult of your character?

No, I read it as condescension--and your response has done nothing but affirm my initial suspicion.

And again, we're back to the age-old argument that "they're not fixing the problem they should be fixing".

You make a lot of assumptions about people and their intentions--most of them incorrect. We are not back to any "age-old argument". Discussing my Login issues was meant as anecdotal, not argumentative.

You seem to think that the fact that a company has gained your consent to gather some information about how you play your games and how your games work on your computer, they're setting out to figure out what your fetish is, by monitoring your searches at various porn sites, then blackmailing you for 10,000$ or else they'll tell your wife you're really into fish-scat-dominatrix stuff.

Again, thank you for constructing such a wonderful straw man. Forgive me if I don't join you in tearing him down. Everything--everything you are bringing to the table has been covered in depth by an article linked to earlier in this thread. I suggest you read it in its entirety and you can join the people who have, in being embarrassed by the argument you posted above.

It is also great that you've said you're going to do something constructive with your evening, as we both know you're reading this, right now.

It is painfully obvious you don't know me. It certainly appears you and I are not alike. What about that eludes you? Perhaps you are unable to disengage from arguing on the internet for any length of time. I am not.

I. AM. NOT. YOU.

It is apparent you and I view privacy in a very different light--which is why I tried to get you to read post #301. Continuing this is pointless.

I will say that it appears the most recent EULA is not as invasive as some people were suggesting. That does not change the fact I wish they scanned nothing. It may be beneficial to have access to hardware scans etc, but I do not believe they can argue they are a necessity of the service. They were able to offer multiplayer gaming before they scanned hardware--or before they expanded their EULA. Hence--it is not a necessity.

Thankfully this thread seems to have expired. I will not be returning here--nor checking to see if you respond.

And trust me on that.

 

[Mechanized]

Just updated Origin last night, guess I'll be uninstalling it after work tonight.

 

[SturokBGD]

not so easy. BF3 will be going through it

What a terrible excuse. It's so easy. I'll be saving my BF3 money and buying some DRM-free consumer friendly EA classics on GOG instead.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

how often I masturbate per week for all I care (bout twice a week)

Anyways, this makes me wonder what exactly may be in my Game Data folder on my consoles, for example after I've installed DA:O and logged into the EA servers.

 

[benny_a]

They were able to offer multiplayer gaming before they scanned hardware--or before they expanded their EULA. Hence--it is not a necessity.

The version of the EULA they are linking on their site has "Launch" in the title. So I presume this is version 1 of the Origin EULA.

If anyone has an earlier version of the Origin EULA I would like to have a copy so I can compare.

A system in which you install games through and buy games through must probably include at least some of the things that the current version enumerates.

 

[Anton Sugar]

You are incorrect.
You need to read the first paragraph in any legal document to get the definition of Words.
Words with capital letters where they don't belong are basically variables.

Application is defined in the EULA as
"this application and all related software, documentation, and updates and upgrades that replace or supplement the application and are not distributed with a separate license"

Based on that "Application" means Origin plus maybe free programs that come with Origins as long as they don't come with a separate license. Games are unlikely to fall under it, as they usually include a proper license.
(See the product EULAs on their page where I think every EA franchise has their own license.)

Please read the EULA carefully. There are enough things wrong with it that we don't need to make it look worse by misrepresenting it.

[Edit: And I need to read the thread carefully as the post was already addressed three above mine. I was a bit too quick to hit reply.]


Purely conjecture at this point. Based on my reading of the EULA they are not allowing themselves to do that, given that the only time they mention anything other than Origin it's "software" in an enumeration. I doubt that gives them this much leeway. IANAL.

I'm kinda in this camp. Until there is proof that it monitors ALL programs, not just the Origin/related Applications, I'm not going to start hiding my hard drive. Application seems to be referring SPECIFICALLY to the actual Origin app. Not sure about the software/software usage part, though.

I checked and didn't see that this was directly addressed, but they updated their EULA, apparently? http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_Origin_8.24.11.pdf

2. Consent to Collection and Use of Data.
EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and
shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly.
Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA
would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it
ever use spyware or install spyware on users’ machines. We and agents acting
on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your
consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to
enforce EA’s legal rights.
In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects nonpersonally identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our
products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of
software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as
communicating with you. The non-personally identifiable information that EA
collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer
(including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as
information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful
installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.
As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as
improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise
enhancing your user experience.
This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in
connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used,
stored and transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at
www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts or is
inconsistent with the terms of EA’s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy
shall control.

 

[AzureNightmare]

They still aren't gonna see Origin installed on my machine.

 

[Septimius]

Seems like they reacted. Good for them. Unfortunate that one guy misinterpreting something can cause this much ruckus.

EULAs are scary when you first read them, but when you take your time to look into what it really is saying, and why, you realise this is what all EULAs say. If you've ever been to a job interview in a creative business, you've probably signed a NDA saying that you give up all rights to the things you create during the application process to the company you're applying with. That seems scary at first, but they don't do that so that they can go through the applications and steal the best idea, they do it so that if they happen to make an idea that resembles yours, you can't yell "HEY, I did that during an application process!" and sue them. Similar ideas happen. That the exact same reason why Steam has that in their Privacy Policy.

Good for EA, though. Funny that it explicitly states that they "[never will] use spyware or install spyware on users’ machine".

 

[Sportbilly]

They still aren't gonna see Origin installed on my machine.

Nor me. I just don't trust them. It took me several years to install Steam and a couple more to feel confident in buying from them. EA are nowhere near instilling that confidence and trust yet and the way they've been acting recently, they're getting further and further away.

 

[Nostalgia~4ever]

Just updated Origin last night, guess I'll be uninstalling it after work tonight.

you can install it again, EA updated their EULA for the better. And this thread was a huge fuzz over nothing.

 

[benny_a]

Good for EA, though. Funny that it explicitly states that they "[never will] use spyware or install spyware on users’ machine".

Because they didn't remove the "software" part of the enumeration but merely added this explicit disclaimer the whole situation was completely based on misinterpretation.

I can imagine the lawyer that had to change it protesting that "Why should I change something that doesn't even imply what is being alleged. They should learn to read."

Anyway, every change to an EULA to make it clearer to understand for the people consenting to it is good.

 

[Salsa]

you can install it again, EA updated their EULA for the better. And this thread was a huge fuzz over nothing.

uhm, a huge fuzz over something that was certainly an issue and got fixed?