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[RaijinFY]

Can you describe the clamshell design? Is it where 2 chips have the same location on the board with one above and another on the underside of the mobo?



He broke the rule pertaining to bitching about the existence of a thread in it.

Exactly. It's exclusive to GDDR5.

 

[phosphor112]

thuway! Nooooo

He made a "was this thread needed" post.

-___-

 

[Router]

He made a "was this thread needed" post.

-___-

He will be back on the 19th

 

[Shayan]

He will be back on the 19th

good to know

Thuway is a great poster

 

[phosphor112]

He will be back on the 19th

i hope

 

[ScepticMatt]

Some more RAM talk.

We currently have:

• 4 GB 5500MT/s GDDR5 (8 chips) on a 256bit Bus
  176GB/s, ~60$ for RAM (from earlier in this thread)

with the performance target in mind, the options are

• 8 GB 5500MT/s GDDR5 (16 chips) on a 256bit Bus (clamshell mode)
  176GB/s, ~120$ for RAM (similar main board cost as above)
• 8 GB 1333MT/s or 1600MT/s DDR3 (16 chips) on a 1024bit Bus (stacked WideIO)
  170GB/s or 205GB/s, ~30$ for RAM (stacking tech cost, yield?)

• 6 GB 6000MT/s GDDR5 (16 chips) on a 192bit Bus (clamshell mode)
  144GB/s, ~100$ for RAM (redesign memory controller)
• 6 GB 5500MT/s GDDR5 (16 chips) on a 384bit Bus
  264GB/s, ~90$ for RAM (added mainboard complexity)

I have a theory: Sony will aim for 6 GB of RAM at 176 GB/S

I cannot see how you would achieve this (see above)

I believe Sony has designed two machines. I predict launch units will use GDDR5, however, in 6 months to a year, Sony will switch to Wide IO / 3D RAM as it becomes the more affordable, less power hungry, and cooler proposition.

It's possible that they have 2 prototypes ready, but I think that they wouldn't switch tech mid-gen. Latencies and bandwitdh numbers would be different.

DDR4 isn't a magic solution. Getting it to run at 174 GB/S will be a tough cookie to crack, however, it is the smart alternative decision.

Easily doable with WideIO, see above

Could Sony be using Rambus memory once again for the PS4?

Sony won't use Rambus memory. They're fabless, and no fab want's anything to do with them at the moment (see Wikipedia)

they should add 4 GB of DDR3 and up their bandwidth to 240 GBs.

Easy with stacked RAM (use 8GB 1833MT/s DDR3 on a 1024bit bus)

 

[Reiko]

He will be back on the 19th

 

[Sorc3r3r]

He will be back on the 19th

I will miss him, it seems to me he is the most reliable source here(with Bruce) or at least the one with less NDA problems...

 

[AuthenticM]

He will be back on the 19th

That makes me think; has Turkish been permabanned ? He's been gone for a while. And what was he banned for ?

 

[i-Lo]

Some more RAM talk.

We currently have:

• 4 GB 5500MT/s GDDR5 (8 chips) on a 256bit Bus
  176GB/s, ~60$ for RAM (from earlier in this thread)

with the performance target in mind, the options are

• 8 GB 5500MT/s GDDR5 (16 chips) on a 256bit Bus (clamshell mode)
  176GB/s, ~120$ for RAM (similar main board cost as above)
• 8 GB 1333MT/s or 1600MT/s DDR3 (16 chips) on a 1024bit Bus (stacked WideIO)
  170GB/s or 205GB/s, ~30$ for RAM (stacking tech cost, yield?)

• 6 GB 6000MT/s GDDR5 (16 chips) on a 192bit Bus (clamshell mode)
  144GB/s, ~100$ for RAM (redesign memory controller)
• 6 GB 5500MT/s GDDR5 (16 chips) on a 384bit Bus
  264GB/s, ~90$ for RAM (added mainboard complexity)

I cannot see how you would achieve this (see above)
It's possible that they have 2 prototypes ready, but I think that they wouldn't switch tech mid-gen. Latencies and bandwitdh numbers would be different.

Easily doable with WideIO, see above
Sony won't use Rambus memory. They're fabless, and no fab want's anything to do with them at the moment (see Wikipedia)

Easy with stacked RAM (use 8GB 1833MT/s DDR3 on a 1024bit bus)

So bus bit of memory controller is dependent upon the number of chips?

 

[JJD]

Where is Jeff Rigby? I miss him...

 

[Shayan]

Where is Jeff Rigby? I miss him...

yep ever since i became a member, i have been looking for him . the guy is very knowledgeable and informative

 

[JJD]

yep ever since i became a member, i have been looking for him . the guy is very knowledgeable and informative

I just miss his wacky speculation... =(

 

[Ashes]

Where is Jeff Rigby? I miss him...

He posts in the vg24/7 thread these days:

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=498008

I remember him posting a quote from semi-accurate forums. Maybe he is more frequent there?

 

[nib95]

NooOOOoo at Europe next year! Why?! We're your most loyal fan base dammit. Urgh... Hype minus 2 million...

Might have no choice but to settle on the 720. Would have got one eventually anyway, but so far I've preferred what I've read on Orbis.

 

[Kung Fu Grip]

Epic bump.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

It's absolutely pathetic if they miss out on a huge region like Europe... again.

 

[amstradcpc]

Epic bump.

As 20th approach people is getting nervous!. jeje.

 

[artist]

Well, time to eat your proverbial hats/crow;

I call bullshit on this tbh. I'd eat my hat if they put 8GB GDDR5 in there.

This invalidates the entire piece imo - 8GB of DDR5 this late in the development process? Yeah, whatever.

No way 8 GB of Gddr5. Calling BS..

Forget about 8GB GDDR5. Not going to happen.

Will definitely eat my hat if they pull 8gigs of GDDR5.

Slightly more powerful sounds much like this gen. We shall see soon enough.

This. It´s not 8 GB. Sony raised it from 2 to 4 GB. That´s what they mean. 8GB GDDR5 is extremely expensive.

lol @ 8GB GDDR5 PS4

if anything they go with 6GB GDDR5 max.

This is obviously not happening. If it's this easy for sony to change their RAM configuration this late in the development process - what makes people think Microsoft won't just add 4GB DDR5 to their current box to offset sony's advantage?

8GB of GDDR5? lolwut

I agree. No way in hell 8gb is happening. However for parity in the amount that's available it might be doable. If the rumors are true that only about 5gb are available on Durango, then given the size of the Orbis' OS footprint they'd only have to shoot for 5-6gb to achieve equivalence. Even though that's still a relatively ridiculous amount to shove in the box and it probably won't happen. It still wouldn't need a full 8gb needed to match Microsoft's console.

Even if we assume that Durango's OS is only half of what it's rumored to be bumping it up that much would close the gap to the point of being a completely non issue putting Orbis in a much preferable position to be developed for.

8 gig of GDDR isn't going to happen.

The article is surely implying that 4GB of GDDR5 will match the PERFORMANCE (not capacity) of 8GB DDR3.

THERE IS NO WAY THE SYSTEM WILL HAVE 8GB OF GDDR5

Its not getting 8GB of ram, read the article again.

About the 8GB, it's just PR talk. It's meant for the fanboys, something like "don't worry that they have more memory, we will still be better!".

PS4 = 4GB GDDR5. Period.

Also, being slightly more powerful than Durante is surprising actually. I don't believe it, I'll wait until they officially reveal the consoles.

I call bullshit on 8GB of GDDR5.

Hope I'm wrong though.

it will NOT have 8GB of GDDR5. Don't set yourselves up for disappointment, that statement is tricky,

Even 4 GB GDDR5 is really pushing it, 8 GB is sci-fi.
Edge should know this!

8 GB is not happening.

Unless the unit is significantly larger, hotter, and more expensive you can forget it. 8 GB of GDDR5 is pie in the sky.

If Sony does decide to improve RAM count, I could only imagine a maximum of 6 GB GDDR5 for launch units. Wide IO + 3D is the future, and not that far off...

Also for fun sakes;

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but

PSP (launch unit) = 32MB RAM x 16 = 512
PSV = 512MB RAM

PS1 = 2MB RAM x 16 = 32
PS2 = 32MB RAM x 16 = 512
PS3 = 512MB RAM X 16 = 8192
PS4 = 8GB RAM

Hell yeah, Edge is right

And lucky or this guys knows something;

willing to wager on that?

I'll also partially admit that I thought 8GB was highly unlikely and was trying to temper people's expectation. I wonder if the usual suspects would have bumped this up (with a haha) had Sony announced 4GB today.

Also the entire article was pretty much on spot. So I'll believe the PS4 > Durango bit as well, including the late launch in EU. +1 Edge.

 

[Loudninja]

Wow Edge was dead on with most of this.

 

[Boss Man]

I totally did not think it was going to be 8GB of GDDR5 but I'm glad I didn't say so lol.

 

[polyh3dron]

I can't believe Sony was crazy enough to put in 8GB of GDDR5. I don't know how MS can compete with that. PS4 exclusive games are going to look so insane.

 

[Pandemic]

I hope to not have to wait till 2014 for the PS4.. They better release it worldwide, late 2013!

 

[Napalm_Frank]

Oh wait...

2014 NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Demon Ice]

My jaw dropped when they revealed 8 GB of GDDR5. I can't even laugh at the people quoted up there, I didn't post but I was absolutely positive it was gonna be 4 GB of DDR5.

 

[Unknown One]

Wow Edge was dead on with most of this.

If Edge was dead on with this...are they dead on with the 720 always online and no used game sales rumor? Because that'll be scary.

 

[Loudninja]

If Edge was dead on with this...are they dead on with the 720 always online and no used game sales rumor, because that'll be scary.

Oh...that is true.

 

[Karsticles]

If Edge was dead on with this...are they dead on with the 720 always online and no used game sales rumor? Because that'll be scary.

It will be hilarious if true.

 

[Eusis]

I guess I just have to hope Sony DOESN'T do that. The fact EDGE had that piece gives a ray of hope there.

Though, I saw it noted they weren't fully committed to the idea just yet. Maybe backlash will make Microsoft reconsider, or they already have and it just hasn't been leaked.

 

[Uno Venova]

If Edge was dead on with this...are they dead on with the 720 always online and no used game sales rumor? Because that'll be scary.

Well, almost every insider here also backed EDGE, they're probably right on that too.

EDGE not saying anything about Sony and bgassasins saying he's heard nothing about it for them gives me hope.

 

[SpeedySwaf]

...I don't suppose they've leaked a price yet, have they?

 

[shinobi602]

If Edge was dead on with this...are they dead on with the 720 always online and no used game sales rumor? Because that'll be scary.

Oh...that is true.

It will be hilarious if true.

Well, almost every insider here also backed EDGE, they're probably right on that too.

EDGE not saying anything about Sony and bgassasins saying he's heard nothing about it for them gives me hope.

Man...I NEED to play Halo 5 and 6

But if MS goes through with that shit, there is not a doubt in my mind that I will skip that console entirely.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

If Edge was dead on with this...are they dead on with the 720 always online and no used game sales rumor? Because that'll be scary.

yea that might prove true.

 

[i-Lo]

Well, time to eat your proverbial hats/crow;

Also for fun sakes;


And lucky or this guys knows something;

I'll also partially admit that I thought 8GB was highly unlikely and was trying to temper people's expectation. I wonder if the usual suspects would have bumped this up (with a haha) had Sony announced 4GB today.

Also the entire article was pretty much on spot. So I'll believe the PS4 > Durango bit as well, including the late launch in EU. +1 Edge.

Wow! I felt trepidation while going down the list to see if I had made an ass of myself. Let's round these members and feed them their share of crows.

 

[artist]

Well, almost every insider here also backed EDGE, they're probably right on that too.

EDGE not saying anything about Sony and bgassasins saying he's heard nothing about it for them gives me hope.

Edge has implied that PS4 will allow used games, see below.

Wow! I felt trepidation while going down the list to see if I had made an ass of myself. Let's round these members and feed them their share of crows.

I think I saw a few of your posts staunchly insisting against 8GB but you probably werent betting on it.

If Edge was dead on with this...are they dead on with the 720 always online and no used game sales rumor? Because that'll be scary.

Yeah, that is more concerning bit rather than being inferior spec wise and they had two stories on that topic;

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511924
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=511974

Microsoft’s next console will require an Internet connection in order to function, ruling out a second-hand game market for the platform.

It is believed that games purchased on disc will ship with activation codes, and will have no value beyond the initial user.

If our sources are correct (and we’re confident they are), Microsoft has made the move that publishers and developers have been asking for.

Our source has also confirmed that the next Xbox’s recently rumoured specs are entirely accurate. That means an AMD eight-core x64 1.6GHz CPU, a D3D11.x 800MHz graphics solution and 8GB of DDR3 RAM. As of now, the console’s hard drive capacity is said to be undecided, but Microsoft’s extended commitment to online delivery suggests that it will be the largest unit it has put inside a console to date.

Though the architectures of the next-gen Xbox and PlayStation both resemble that of PCs, several development sources have told us that Sony’s solution is preferable when it comes to leveraging power. Studios working with the next-gen Xbox are currently being forced to work with only approved development libraries, while Sony is encouraging coders to get closer to the metal of its box. Furthermore, the operating system overhead of Microsoft’s next console is more oppressive than Sony’s equivalent, giving the PlayStation-badged unit another advantage.

Walk into a game retailer (should you be able to find one by the time these consoles arrive) and the choice could be simple: PlayStation 4 is more powerful, and plays second-hand games

Right now, there seems to be a subtle role reversal happening; Microsoft’s stricter, more complex box aspires to be the complete entertainment superhub PS3 was once designed to be. Sony’s PlayStation 4 is more PC-like and developer-friendly, as Xbox once was.

 

[Strike]

If Edge was dead on with this...are they dead on with the 720 always online and no used game sales rumor? Because that'll be ugly.

Fixed. That's a great way to piss off retailers and consumer alike. Hope they don't go through with it if they're actually considering it.

 

[artist]

edit: Sony just confirmed used games; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=514611

Edge +2?

 

[sappyday]

If their source on that is true plus adding the fact that Sony now has the stronger ram, this won't bode well for Microsoft. But they could use this time to match Sony and change their business plan.

 

[B-Dubs]

If Edge was dead on with this...are they dead on with the 720 always online and no used game sales rumor? Because that'll be scary.

This actually occurred to me when I saw the thread bumped. I have a feeling if Edge did get that right, that Microsoft may just be changing course. It's probably too late to bump up the power, but they can still allow used games.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Well isn't this something Microsoft could change as well. Or the always online drm approach to baked into their plans to change it.

 

[Knoxcore]

edit: Sony just confirmed used games; http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=514611

Edge +2?

If MS bans used games, I simply won't buy their console. But I don't think MS will do it if Sony is not doing it and it looks like Sony will allow used games on the PS4.

Another thing of note, it seems to me Sony has become the more developer-friendly company, catering to the needs of the developer rather than placing stringent guidelines on their hardware. I bring it up because it is not the first time I heard this.

 

[chubigans]

I have a feeling MS is gonna do whatever the hell they want regardless of what Sony did tonight.

Also that list of crow is amazing.

 

[Dreamgazer]

I'm just glad Edge's reputation got redeemed, regardless of good/bad news.

 

[mango drank]

It's probably been mentioned here or in other threads, but I'll bet the PS5 and Xbox 1440--if they ever come out--will be download-only. No optical media. At that point, they'll both disallow used games. Sony's stay of execution for used games on the PS4 is probably a marketing decision: Xbox won't allow them, so Sony get to look like the good guys by comparison. But, they know the download-only future is coming, and they can withstand the ire of developers/publishers for another couple years in order to to win consumer support.

 

[Jack_AG]

It will be hilarious if true.

Why hilarious? That would absolutely suck. Not just for XBOX owners but bad business spreads like disease if people lay down and take that.

Nothing to laugh about, dude.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Why hilarious? That would absolutely suck. Not just for XBOX owners but bad business spreads like disease if people lay down and take that.

Nothing to laugh about, dude.

We only need to look at how quickly DLC grew and how some developers have used in absolutely terrible ways like locking disc content away as DLC, etc.

This is worrisome if Microsoft push ahead with it, developers will end up supporting it and it will begin to infect PS4 gaming,

 

[artist]

I'm just glad Edge's reputation got redeemed, regardless of good/bad news.

Why, do you work for them?

 

[Karsticles]

Why hilarious? That would absolutely suck. Not just for XBOX owners but bad business spreads like disease if people lay down and take that.

Nothing to laugh about, dude.

Well, if people are going to lay down and take it, then we're doomed no matter what. I would enjoy it because I don't think people would take it, and it make MS to back off with its BS.