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EDGE: What Microsoft’s always-on Xbox means for PlayStation 4

Yeah, I don't know why people are thinking Sony won't if Microsoft does. I can't see Microsoft making such a ballsy move without some backup.

Maybe because the very same EDGE article this thread is based upon assumes so?

Either way I really hope this doesn't happen for both consoles. WiiU released without this kind of stuff, and there was about the same third party content there always is for a Nintendo console, and it's not like they're going to stop porting to PC, so MS and Sony can have the final word on this. Although I can definitely see this being not mandatory for all games and publishers being able to block the games they want to.

In that case, the law must be brought down on those guys.
 
They'll just tell people it's good for them...and the majority of brain dead sheep will buy it.

Just like they've bought into rip-off DLC without a whimper of protest.

I think it's more the case that people have become extremely accustomed to this form of digital content distribution.

I can't sell the games I buy on my phone.
I can't sell the Apps I buy on my phone, my tablet or my PC.
I can't sell the music I buy digitally.
I can't sell the TV shows or movies I buy digitally.
I can't sell the XBLA games I buy or the PSN games I buy.
I can't sell the Steam games I buy.
I can't sell the books I buy on Kindle.
I can't sell the "Real Money Store" stuff I buy in F2P MMOs.


I mean it's one thing to argue that customers won't stand for this, but given how well the above services have been doing lately...
 
You don't really understand how retail works either. I program replenishment systems for a fortune 100 company. If something is in the bargain bin, it is because it is being discontinued and we are trying to get rid of the inventory. Simple as that. If a buyer or merchandiser placed a big initial (new release) order on a product with no hopes of selling the inventory, then that was their mistake. They were not in tune with the market. If they repeat this mistake too many times, they will be out of a job. The replenishment system is intelligent enough to "replenish" stock based on past demand from that point forward because it knows what past sales were by store/region.

Edit: The main point is, the stuff in the bargain bin usually isn't sold at a huge loss to the retailer because that is stock they already bought at a hugely reduced price from a $60 initial release retail game. So the $10 game in the bargain bin probably only cost $10. Or there is an agreement with the vendor that you can return any unsold product and get refunded and the vendor just said, eh, throw it in the bargain bin and we will refund you the difference of what you sold it for and what we sold it to you for.

Excuse me, but I work for a multi-billion dollar company as a retail planner. I know everything about the retail business. Don't be naive: retailers sell at a loss all the time. Nearly every purchase entails some risk. Consignment and guaranteed sale agreements are the exception, not the rule.

And in the videogame business, especially, the only way to purchase $60 games at "a hugely reduced price" is for someone to take that loss. It's not at all unusual for the retailer to be that someone. As I said, there are different scenarios. I even detailed the exact one you did.
 
I don't care i'm still buying Microsoft's next game console. I love my Xbox 360. Buying new games helps Pubs/Devs. 2013 will be the best year of my life :)
 
The only thing giving me hope that people won't let this slide is the amount of outrage surrounding it. I don't recall this much negativity towards and idea since DmC, and look how well that is doing... (Not saying it's a bad game, it just wasn't wanted by the market, and is now a massive sales disappointment)
 
I don't care i'm still buying Microsoft's next game console. I love my Xbox 360. Buying new games helps Pubs/Devs. 2013 will be the best year of my life :)

MS takes away your consumer rights and you willfully give them your money... Sounds about right for an xbox crazed Junior member..

Add to that being forced to be online to access hardware you bought...

I really get confused sometimes by people..
 
MS takes away your consumer rights and you willfully give them your money... Sounds about right for an xbox crazed Junior member..

Add to that being forced to be online to access hardware you bought...

I really get confused sometimes by people..

IMO, it's more the "always online" that's bothering me (for both consoles, if true), even if i have the cable here in France (100Mb/s) and will be FTTH in a year or two. In fact, i think dematerialized content is the future and, like someone as said, all digital services are like this (not allowing second-hand).

As much as i love my PS3, i would jump in 720 if "always online" is on PS4 and not on 720, and vice versa... (even if 720 sounds to be the underpowered one)
 
Oh come on, I think we can dismiss this literally meaning you need to be online every single second. They'll have a periodic rights-check just like everyone else does.

We have games with always online already. It's not a periodic rights-check. If you lose your connection at all the game errors out.
 
MS takes away your consumer rights and you willfully give them your money... Sounds about right for an xbox crazed Junior member..

Add to that being forced to be online to access hardware you bought...

I really get confused sometimes by people..

Who you calling junior?... I'm 30 years old and been gaming before most of you were born, Love my Atari 2600, I love online gaming been doing it since the Dreamcast (1999). I am very pleased with Microsoft and will continue enjoying their service. In my book MS can do no wrong you all wait and see.

If you love a game pre-order it buy new and help your favourite devs.
 
Who you calling junior?... I'm 30 years old and been gaming before most of you were born, Love my Atari 2600, I love online gaming been doing it since the Dreamcast (1999). I am very pleased with Microsoft and will continue enjoying their service. In my book MS can do no wrong you all wait and see.

If you love a game pre-order it buy new and help your favourite devs.

I wouldn't even know how to respond to this...
 
I think it's more the case that people have become extremely accustomed to this form of digital content distribution.

I can't sell the games I buy on my phone.
I can't sell the Apps I buy on my phone, my tablet or my PC.
I can't sell the music I buy digitally.
I can't sell the TV shows or movies I buy digitally.
I can't sell the XBLA games I buy or the PSN games I buy.
I can't sell the Steam games I buy.
I can't sell the books I buy on Kindle.
I can't sell the "Real Money Store" stuff I buy in F2P MMOs.


I mean it's one thing to argue that customers won't stand for this, but given how well the above services have been doing lately...

Please tell me where any of these services cost 60 bucks a pop.
 
Who you calling junior?... I'm 30 years old and been gaming before most of you were born, Love my Atari 2600, I love online gaming been doing it since the Dreamcast (1999). I am very pleased with Microsoft and will continue enjoying their service. In my book MS can do no wrong you all wait and see.

If you love a game pre-order it buy new and help your favourite devs.

You are a junior member. Look under your handle.

Thats all he was getting at.
 
Who you calling junior?... I'm 30 years old and been gaming before most of you were born, Love my Atari 2600, I love online gaming been doing it since the Dreamcast (1999). I am very pleased with Microsoft and will continue enjoying their service. In my book MS can do no wrong you all wait and see.

If you love a game pre-order it buy new and help your favourite devs.

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One thing that, in hindsight, appears to be a type of foreshadowing: Gamestop locations, over the past year or two, have varied a lot of their stock. They began selling digital codes through the tills, carrying all sorts of toys, and a much wider selection of accessories. This seemed to happen out of the blue, and for no apparent reason. This could easily point to a courtesy from the game companies, warning them of future intentions.
 
Who you calling junior?... I'm 30 years old and been gaming before most of you were born, Love my Atari 2600

So you enjoyed it years before you were born? I'm 39 and was young when I got one. It must have been massively obsolete when you got it.
 
I buy XBLIG's and they only start up if your online. Dice's BF1943 only has online multiplayer. It's 2013 not 1994.
Sorry about the junior thing. I get the points people have made and respect your opinions. Have a wonderful day my gaming friends.
 
Please tell me where any of these services cost 60 bucks a pop.

Well I don't know what the US Dollar is worth these days, but I've paid £40 for games on Steam and other DD services before.

And isn't that an arbitrary cut-off point? A song might cost £1, a book might cost £5, a movie £10, an XBLA game up to £15, steam games up to £40...
 
Who you calling junior?... I'm 30 years old and been gaming before most of you were born, Love my Atari 2600, I love online gaming been doing it since the Dreamcast (1999). I am very pleased with Microsoft and will continue enjoying their service. In my book MS can do no wrong you all wait and see.

If you love a game pre-order it buy new and help your favourite devs.

A multi-billion dollar capitalist company can do no wrong... I am honestly shocked...

Look up two devices called the Zune and the Kin.. It'll do you some good.
 
I think it's more the case that people have become extremely accustomed to this form of digital content distribution.

I can't sell the games I buy on my phone.
I can't sell the Apps I buy on my phone, my tablet or my PC.
I can't sell the music I buy digitally.
I can't sell the TV shows or movies I buy digitally.
I can't sell the XBLA games I buy or the PSN games I buy.
I can't sell the Steam games I buy.
I can't sell the books I buy on Kindle.
I can't sell the "Real Money Store" stuff I buy in F2P MMOs.


I mean it's one thing to argue that customers won't stand for this, but given how well the above services have been doing lately...

There's the problem, this is for physical media as well.
 
So you enjoyed it years before you were born? I'm 39 and was young when I got one. It must have been massively obsolete when you got it.

I was poor when i was a kid plus i'm not a American. Maybe Atari released it much later in my country then yours. I was very lucky to have one, It was my first games console.
 
There's the problem, this is for physical media as well.

Very much this. There are different standards for different types of media. Investing $2 in something digital that you'll never get back is irrelevant to pretty much everybody. Investing $60 in something physical you'll never get back feels like a huge risk. Not to mention that it is possible to play games on Steam or an iPod without an internet connection.
 
NOT getting an Xbox if this is true. PS4 is looking like the best choice so far. (more powerful, second hand games, good controller, etc.)

If MS wants to be like STEAM for their next console they are going to have to compete with MASSIVE sale prices. Sure things have been on sale on 360 but like 50% off the original price of a $60 game that's 2-3 years old sucks. They need to learn to lower the prices of games that don't sell like hotcakes anymore.
 
Who you calling junior?... I'm 30 years old and been gaming before most of you were born, Love my Atari 2600, I love online gaming been doing it since the Dreamcast (1999). I am very pleased with Microsoft and will continue enjoying their service. In my book MS can do no wrong you all wait and see.

If you love a game pre-order it buy new and help your favourite devs.

You think the company that has been fined multiple times for monopolistic practices can do no wrong?
 
This is neither Sony or Microsoft. This is EA, Activision and Ubisoft. They want it, they get it. Because otherwise your platform doesn't get the new Madden, the new CoD or AC and you're dead. If MS are smart they let each publisher choose if he wants to have a game locked down from used sales or not. If they are really smart it's just a "no used game sales for the 3 months following release" policy.

Yet the Sony conference is on the 20th and we have yet to hear anything about them being denied major games or joining with Microsoft in this deal about locking out used games. I am starting to think Microsoft will go it alone on this but it will be a very scaled back version of what we have heard. It won't need to be online all the time, you will probably just need to verify it once depending on the publisher. I still think this ends up being a big failure though no matter how they choose to implement it.
 
I think it's more the case that people have become extremely accustomed to this form of digital content distribution.

I can't sell the games I buy on my phone.
I can't sell the Apps I buy on my phone, my tablet or my PC.
I can't sell the music I buy digitally.
I can't sell the TV shows or movies I buy digitally.
I can't sell the XBLA games I buy or the PSN games I buy.
I can't sell the Steam games I buy.
I can't sell the books I buy on Kindle.
I can't sell the "Real Money Store" stuff I buy in F2P MMOs.


I mean it's one thing to argue that customers won't stand for this, but given how well the above services have been doing lately...

With the exception of XBLA/PSN games when hardware becomes outdated all that stuff will still be usable on newer devices. Will people be as willing to shell out $60 for a game that they can't resell and may not be compatible with anything other than the console they bought it for?
 
There's the problem, this is for physical media as well.

Steam has been doing it for retail games for nearly a decade and its been just fine for them. Its a great way to get a game if you dont want to download 10 gigs.



Only problem I see with the current rumours are the "always online" thing but I bet that will be BS and at most you will need to be online to activate your game.

With the exception of XBLA/PSN games when hardware becomes outdated all that stuff will still be usable on newer devices. Will people be as willing to shell out $60 for a game that they can't resell and may not be compatible with anything other than the console they bought it for?

With both the Ps4 and 720 ditching any super specialised hardware like the Cell and basically becoming PC's I bet the days of BC being a "maybe" will be over when / if the PS5/next next xbox come.
 
Steam has been doing it for retail games for nearly a decade and its been just fine for them. Its a great way to get a game if you dont want to download 10 gigs.



Only problem I see with the current rumours are the "always online" thing but I bet that will be BS and at most you will need to be online to activate your game.

Why the hell do people have a hard time believing this when EA and Ubisoft already required it for games like the upcoming Sim City and Anno 2070.

Hell Blizzard with D3. I think people need to accept the fact it's not BS especially since MS hasn't even tried to clear this up whatsoever and more and more people are getting turned off by the 720.
 
Actually i would love to sell my drm music and other stuff. Authorities should encourage companys to offer
Ways to do this
 
I mean it's one thing to argue that customers won't stand for this, but given how well the above services have been doing lately...
That's precisely the point though: customers are steadily making the move to digital media anyway and will probably largely have converted to digital only within a decade. Publishers have somehow survived the dastardly threat of 2nd hand sales for decades already, they shouldn't have this sudden need to try to rush things along when the end is in sight. If anything they could just be threatening the pace of migration with backlash.
 
MS made an exclusive deal with Redbox a few days ago, could it be that in tandem with this anti-used games policy that they would offer Redbox rentals at a discount or included with your XBL membership?

I personally don't rent or trade in that many games anymore so this announcement doesn't really affect me too much, but I understand why everyone else is so salty.
 
MS made an exclusive deal with Redbox a few days ago, could it be that in tandem with this anti-used games policy that they would offer Redbox rentals at a discount or included with your XBL membership?

I personally don't rent or trade in that many games anymore so this announcement doesn't really affect me too much, but I understand why everyone else is so salty.

i forgot about that deal
seems strange to me redbox would do business with microsoft if they were planning on blocking used/rented games. that directly prevents redbox from making money
 
i forgot about that deal
seems strange to me redbox would do business with microsoft if they were planning on blocking used/rented games. that directly prevents redbox from making money

It's not actually Redbox though, it was a deal with Redbox Instant that lets you stream movies to the 360, like Netflix.

edit: wait, sorry, I misunderstood. Redbox is in the dark with MS plans so I doubt that was an issue with this deal.
 
I think it's more the case that people have become extremely accustomed to this form of digital content distribution.

I can't sell the games I buy on my phone.
I can't sell the Apps I buy on my phone, my tablet or my PC.
I can't sell the music I buy digitally.
I can't sell the TV shows or movies I buy digitally.
I can't sell the XBLA games I buy or the PSN games I buy.
I can't sell the Steam games I buy.
I can't sell the books I buy on Kindle.
I can't sell the "Real Money Store" stuff I buy in F2P MMOs.


I mean it's one thing to argue that customers won't stand for this, but given how well the above services have been doing lately...

I can resell LPs
I can resell books
I can resell CDs
I can resell DVDs
I can resell Blu Rays
I can resell SNES games
I can resell Dreamcast games
I can resell my iPad
I can resell my game-controllers

There's a difference between digital and physical. There's even a lot of dispute about ownership and Steam. But the main important thing is that we're all onboard with this when it comes to digital "owernship" - we understand that there's a sort of service to the digital platform - being able to download music you bought digitally on all your devices, being able to log on to steam on your second computer on the other side of the world, and still be able to access YOUR game.

Saying "you're losing the perks of owning a physical object, but not getting the perks of the digital platform" is what disgusts at least me.
 
I think it's more the case that people have become extremely accustomed to this form of digital content distribution.

I can't sell the games I buy on my phone.
I can't sell the Apps I buy on my phone, my tablet or my PC.
I can't sell the music I buy digitally.
I can't sell the TV shows or movies I buy digitally.
I can't sell the XBLA games I buy or the PSN games I buy.
I can't sell the Steam games I buy.
I can't sell the books I buy on Kindle.
I can't sell the "Real Money Store" stuff I buy in F2P MMOs.


I mean it's one thing to argue that customers won't stand for this, but given how well the above services have been doing lately...

Not exactly true: you CAN sell most of those, you just can't sell them individually. And some of them, you can, actually. In the case of MP3's and some digital movies and shows, you can access those file and they will play elsewhere (ie. no DRM). Nobody is likely to buy an MP3 from you, but still...

In any case, you can sell your Kindle and everything on it, if you choose. You can sell your Xbox or PS3, and everything on it. Your right to sell them is unchanged. Your ability is hampered.

I'm not a fan of that, and it, too needs to be addressed.

This rumor of an always-on DRM is not the same as those. Firstly, it is locking down physical media, which is certainly new to the console market at the very least. And there may be further differences as well. We don't know.
 
I can resell LPs
I can resell books
I can resell CDs
I can resell DVDs
I can resell Blu Rays
I can resell SNES games
I can resell Dreamcast games
I can resell my iPad
I can resell my game-controllers
I don't see that really being relevant given the point was that more and more content is taking this approach. And presumably you'd still be able to sell your Xbox 720.


There's a difference between digital and physical. There's even a lot of dispute about ownership and Steam. But the main important thing is that we're all onboard with this when it comes to digital "owernship" - we understand that there's a sort of service to the digital platform - being able to download music you bought digitally on all your devices, being able to log on to steam on your second computer on the other side of the world, and still be able to access YOUR game.

Saying "you're losing the perks of owning a physical object, but not getting the perks of the digital platform" is what disgusts at least me.

What perks of the digital platform would you lose? You have steam on your home PC and log in there, you have steam on your laptop and log in half way across the world; great. You have a 720 at home and log in there, you go to a friend's house and log in on her 720; not as great?
 
IWhat perks of the digital platform would you lose? You have steam on your home PC and log in there, you have steam on your laptop and log in half way across the world; great. You have a 720 at home and log in there, you go to a friend's house and log in on her 720; not as great?

Depends on how long it takes to log in, I suppose. I've had it take 20-30 minutes to download my profile onto a friend's X360.
 
MS takes away your consumer rights and you willfully give them your money... Sounds about right for an xbox crazed Junior member..

Add to that being forced to be online to access hardware you bought...

I really get confused sometimes by people..

He clearly doesn't feel like his consumer rights are being taken away. What's there to be confused about? He's not affected by this in a negative way. This whole thing sounds like a lot of self entitlement. You have access to the internet and well I've no idea about ones individual income but still.

With that said, I do think that there should be somesort of offline mode Ala steam. But I don't have an issue with what they're doing.
 
That's precisely the point though: customers are steadily making the move to digital media anyway and will probably largely have converted to digital only within a decade. Publishers have somehow survived the dastardly threat of 2nd hand sales for decades already, they shouldn't have this sudden need to try to rush things along when the end is in sight. If anything they could just be threatening the pace of migration with backlash.

I like what you're saying. I never really thought about this aspect, but it's true. If physical media is still an option, they've got to bite their tongues a little bit longer with the "no used" policy. People will even resist a good idea if it's forced on them (though I think this one sucks). I'm a huge physical media supporter, but I am resigned to the fact that by the time of the Playstation 5 (or whatever) everything will be digital. What others have brought up is quite valid as well, in that with Steam or iOS stuff, it's all backwards compatible without question. Consoles have a habit of dropping the previous iteration's content into the abyss...

What I am NEVER willing to concede to is a constant internet connection (mine is awesome, it's just a principle thing). It is completely redundant and annoying if you're buying a digital copy, which is automatically registered to your account. The only thing it's good for at that point is pissing people off. I would rather this generation go all-digital and not have the constant connection, given the option. I sincerely hope the PS4 does not support the "online only" infrastructure, but I won't be surprised if it does.

There is a loss associated with any business. The guy with the fruit stand could put his wares in the back of some alley where nobody would shoplift, but then he'd have no customers. Putting his stuff on the busy street corner may result in some loss, but also a lot more sales. Piracy is bad, but it will happen. These companies have to start looking at it as "we need to minimize, but try not to be overly invasive." They're delusional to think they can basically stop almost all piracy without screwing over paying customers. Walmart could have armed guards patting everyone down as they leave the store, but then how many people would go in?
 
Wow and people thought the PS3 launch was bad. If all this news about the new xbox comes to fruition, the new xbox will be in a deep heap.

Don't forget a large amount of Xbox's and PS3 are used by kids that like to share/rent games.
 
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