Support NeoGAF

[Iceman]

In the graduate-level academic research world (specifically biology) we find that western-educated students are more able to creatively work out solutions than their Eastern-trained counterparts - in general. In addition, It's more difficult to graduate (grant PhDs) because they tend to not have a fundamental understanding of their own projects, leaning, rather, on the ever-available expertise of their mentors. It almost comes off as a lack of confidence and initiative. I think (speculating) there is* a tendency to nurture those qualities more in the various western systems of education.

*(or at least was - I don't know what the purpose or effect of common core is just yet)

 

[Parch]

They teach kids to pass a test and it's WHOOOOOP right out of their heads.

The brain dump is common in all education systems. It's particularly frustrating when you get a new college grad that I know was taught and should know the aspects of a job, but his entire schooling attitude was pass the test, brain dump, and focus on the next test.
An education isn't much value if there's no attempt at retention and application.

 

[Chococat]

From Asian countries, the US needs to adopt the cultural mentality of education is good, and teacher are worth of respect. Anti-intellectualism is a big problem in the system; if parents and political leaders are constantly putting down education and teachers, it is no surprises kids don't try or respect schooling when society hold sports achievement more important than academics.

Second, is grading is to mean anything, grade inflation needs to stop. It is suppose to be a metric of how much the class as a whole is absorbing the material along with how effective the teacher/material is being interpenetrated. It's a two fold problem of a) parents demanding little Bob/Suzy should have gotten an A instead of a B cause he is college bound and b) teacher/schools fudging grades to get funding.

A are for exceptional students- B and high C should be perfectly acceptable for the majority kids, parents, and politicians. Kids should defiantly try their hardest- but should not doomed to failure because of average scores.

Grading should be done to find a student strengths and weakness so education can be tailored to correct problems or challenge a student more.

America is also falling into the rote memorization trap because of demands to produce metrics to rate teachers and school. Yes, teachers and schools to need some way to rate their effectiveness. But forcing every student to learn to the test does not help them in their work/home life. Reading, writing and math are the core. Science, history, art, various shop class, music, etc should focus exciting kids to want to learn more, to cooperate in groups, to do self study, to figure out problems, to let their voices and ideas be heard. Kid need to learn to take a problem and to figure out how to solve it.

 

[Parch]

Kids need to learn to take a problem and to figure out how to solve it.

I do think technology is actually a problem with regards to this. The "google it" attitude does nothing for logical thought and problem solving.

 

[Jasup]

A real, honest thing that could be learned: focus more on the value of hard work than success.

American culture tends to care more about raw talent than disciplined study. We romanticize the rogue, effortless genius, while the person who just works very hard to accomplish what he wants is considered boring and stodgy.

It has been my experience that it is primarily hard work, not raw genius, that pushes society forward. This is more a cultural shift than an educational one, of course; schools can't readily force our society to stop idolizing the things it idolizes. But it can help shape it, to a degree.

While in some degree I agree that it's primarily hard work and not raw genius that pushes society forward, I have to ask how does the care for raw talent show in American school system?

With the focus on standardized testing and policies like No Child Left Behind or Race to the Top combined with ever increasing call for student and teacher accountability, from an outside perspective it does seem like a culture of hard work towards a set goals rather than nurturing talent.


edit: I confess that I have only a rudimentary knowledge of the American school system

 

[Haly]

While in some degree I agree that it's primarily hard work and not raw genius that pushes society forward, I have to ask how does the care for raw talent show in American school system?

With the focus on standardized testing and policies like No Child Left Behind or Race to the Top combined with ever increasing call for student and teacher accountability, from an outside perspective it does seem like a culture of hard work towards a set goals rather than nurturing talent.

It varies from location to location, but if you're in an urban center, chances are there are various "tiers" of high schools depending on your children's educational aptitude. Testing into these school can be highly competitive, and these schools are commonly a stepping stone onto the more competitive colleges and universities around the country. They themselves frequently expose their students to the rigors and demands of higher learning through their connections to local colleges.

But really, this kind of stuff should be universal, and not relegated to socio-economic happenstance.

 

[Jasup]

It varies from location to location, but if you're in an urban center, chances are there are various "tiers" of high schools depending on your children's educational aptitude. Testing into these school can be highly competitive, and these schools are commonly a stepping stone onto the more competitive colleges and universities around the country. They themselves frequently expose their students to the rigors and demands of higher learning through their connections to local colleges.

But really, this kind of stuff should be universal, and not relegated to socio-economic happenstance.

Thanks.
One further question, how is the educational aptitude or student achievement measured? That's basically the beef of my question, does it really take the students who think differently into account?

 

[Coriolanus]

While in some degree I agree that it's primarily hard work and not raw genius that pushes society forward, I have to ask how does the care for raw talent show in American school system?

With the focus on standardized testing and policies like No Child Left Behind or Race to the Top combined with ever increasing call for student and teacher accountability, from an outside perspective it does seem like a culture of hard work towards a set goals rather than nurturing talent.


edit: I confess that I have only a rudimentary knowledge of the American school system

A bit of jante's law would be nice to counterbalance all that Great Men mythos entrenched in the culture.

 

[Neo C.]

Math can be learned. Western people have this strange connotation that you are either gifted for math or not.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Math can be learned. Western people have this strange connotation that you are either gifted for math or not.

In my experience, Americans like to learn the math that is convenient and simple to apply, not the theorems and history behind the theorems. Americans in general love napkin math, not practical theorem math, unless it is practically applied to how it affects one checkbook.

IIRC, Malcolm Gladwell has a theory in Outliers that Asians are superior in Math topics because of how the written language and dialect is conducive to learning the topic very easily.

https://fosterreisz.wordpress.com/2...ory-of-success-–-rice-paddies-and-math-tests/

 

[norinrad]

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

In my experience, Americans like to learn the math that is convenient and simple to apply, not the theorems and history behind the theorems. Americans in general love napkin math, not practical theorem math, unless it is practically applied to how it affects one checkbook.

IIRC, Malcolm Gladwell has a theory in Outliers that Asians are superior in Math topics because of how the written language and dialect is conducive to learning the topic very easily.

https://fosterreisz.wordpress.com/2...ory-of-success-–-rice-paddies-and-math-tests/

Now that is the epitome of excuse making! Ridiculous!

 

[zero shift]

We learn from Finland.

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

In my experience, Americans like to learn the math that is convenient and simple to apply, not the theorems and history behind the theorems. Americans in general love napkin math, not practical theorem math, unless it is practically applied to how it affects one checkbook.

And why should they? That stuff is useless to everyone but mathematicians.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

Asian education systems aren't very good, and the West should learn from them by seeing what not to do. I know of a teacher in China who wants to move to the U.S. mainly so that her daughter won't have to be put through the Chinese education system. The reason why Asians students perform better than Americans in global surveys has more to do with culture than anything else. In Asian schools, academic achievement is associated with in-school social status while in the U.S., the two are either unrelated or sometimes mutually exclusive.

Moreover, there's an expectation that superior academic performance from elementary to high school can dictate one's lifetime financial and social security. And that kind of pressure leads to kids spending inordinate amounts of time memorizing useless trivia like the dates of battles.

And we all know popularity leads to intimacy.

 

[Jasup]

A bit of jante's law would be nice to counterbalance all that Great Men mythos entrenched in the culture.

I know this law. I'm a nordic resident, a trained teacher and very fond of critical pedagogy
.

Math can be learned. Western people have this strange connotation that you are either gifted for math or not.

What do you mean by math?
Is it the knowledge to calculate stuff, to put a bunch of numbers into memorized formulas, or math where you have to think how to calculate stuff? Those two need different mental processes. One form is basically cramming and the other requires creativity (which everyone has).
I do agree that math can be learned though.

 

[SillyEskimo]

Family participation is key. Not just mom and dad, but the whole extended family should be encouraging and assisting a child's education.

In America, the vast majority of parents don't know or care what their kids are doing in school. If/when they do show interest or concern it's usually too late. You have to be involved Day 1 with the school itself, it's functions, and other parents. You form relationships with like minded parents and you all work together to form a strong network of intelligent, loving people who have the best interests of their kids in mind. The hard part is watching other children falter and fall because their parents just don't care enough to show an active interest. I've seen divorce cripple the lives of what would otherwise be normal, healthy children.

If given the proper environment, kids will flourish at an exponential rate. It's amazing to witness and deeply satisfying to be a part of it.

 

[Parch]

But hey, it seems like a lot of Americans like to coddle their children with the EVERYONE IS WINNER, EVERYONE IS SMART, EVERYONE GETS A TROPHY. There's also this idea that there's no personal responsibility anymore.

I've seen this a lot. It often creates arrogance. Helicopter parents telling a kid they're wonderful their entire life does nothing to help them in the real world, and it's often an unpleasant reality check when they suddenly have to realize that they're not the flawless person they thought they were. A person needs to deal with failures, and that doesn't happen with coddled kids.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Now that is the epitome of excuse making! Ridiculous!

His words, not mine. Out of context, it makes for an inflammatory filler to a dull book.

And why should they? That stuff is useless to everyone but mathematicians.

That's not true.

It's not useless to engineers or architects if it makes their job easier. How about other fields of STEM, such as physics or chemistry, where precise calculations are required?

Understanding the logic behind the theorems and the history helps people to understand how the formula should be applied.

Why is there this idea that understanding theorems behind mathematics is exclusive to math majors?

 

[Haly]

What do you mean by math?
Is it the knowledge to calculate stuff, to put a bunch of numbers into memorized formulas, or math where you have to think how to calculate stuff? Those two need different mental processes. One form is basically cramming and the other requires creativity (which everyone has).

There is an idea in American culture that math is like painting or illustration, and you either have a gift for it or not. And I'm not even talking about number theory, I'm referring to basic calculus or even trigonometry.

Many of these concepts escape far too many college age students. They struggle needlessly during mandatory science classes and this is also part of the reason why there's such a divide between STEM and the Liberal Arts in America. The populations of both view the other as some kind of mythical land of strange and foreign peoples.

Which is obviously ridiculous because it would also imply East Asians have some kind of "math gene" that makes them better at basic math than their peers at the high school/under-grad level. I understand things are different at the post-grad level.

It's about diligence, and attitude.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

Honestly? Not much.

Not only would many of the practices simply not be compatible with western culture and attitudes, but you can also see that the results produced aren't exactly game changing.

 

[You Are Viewtiful]

Family participation is key. Not just mom and dad, but the whole extended family should be encouraging and assisting a child's education.

In America, the vast majority of parents don't know or care what their kids are doing in school. If/when they do show interest or concern it's usually too late. You have to be involved Day 1 with the school itself, it's functions, and other parents. You form relationships with like minded parents and you all work together to form a strong network of intelligent, loving people who have the best interests of their kids in mind. The hard part is watching other children falter and fall because their parents just don't care enough to show an active interest. I've seen divorce cripple the lives of what would otherwise be normal, healthy children.

If given the proper environment, kids will flourish at an exponential rate. It's amazing to witness and deeply satisfying to be a part of it.

The unfortunate reality is that some 30% of North American children grow up in single-parent households, so even the direct family involvement in education is difficult to attain, let alone extended family involvement. While this is one piece of the puzzle, I don't think it will be a fix all. I know some school boards like to send homework that involves interacting with the parents. The kind of stuff may work excellently if there's a stay-at-home parent, but it would backfire in a stressed out single parent household. The kid would probably not finish his homework properly and be worse off than if the homework didn't involve interacting with parents.

 

[appaws]

I've seen this a lot. It often creates arrogance. Helicopter parents telling a kid they're wonderful their entire life does nothing to help them in the real world, and it's often an unpleasant reality check when they suddenly have to realize that they're not the flawless person they thought they were. A person needs to deal with failures, and that doesn't happen with coddled kids.

This sadly applies even to "children" who are adults. When I used to teach college, I would sometimes get calls from parents of my students or former students about their grades. I was always shocked. And of course I could not talk to them about their daughter's or son's grades because they were over 18 and that is a violation of Federal law.

There is a certain sense of entitlement built into kids today in the culture. Like just getting along and not majorly screwing up entitles them to an "A." And if they earn a B- it becomes my fault when they don't get into the law school that daddy went to.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

America wants to look to Scandinavia and keep the fuck away from East Asian Education. 10 year old kids studying 13 hours a day is abuse. They're nervous wrecks going into exams and are told their entire future are based on these results.
Horrible way to raise a kid.

 

[zero shift]

Oh yeah, that's true.



Yet somehow the Asian minority in America does the best in schools, has the highest family income and education rates, and yet the lowest divorce rates.

:x

Not that any of that translates into happiness, but to discount the success of people raised in the Asian education system, in American culture, is being willfully ignorant.

The Finnish model has kids performing better than the Asian kids with higher incomes and happiness. Nothing but win.

 

[simplayer]

And why should they? That stuff is useless to everyone but mathematicians.

Knowing theorems is a basic part of math. If you don't know the theorem, you can't do the math.

Proving theorems is useful for critical thinking.

Knowing the history...is optional, at best.

 

[Mineshaft_Gap]

I don't fucking care, it's insulting to call an entire state full of people a virus. I realize the power Texas has over education, but the fucking elitism some other people have towards other states and countries is disgusting.

Sorry. Texas is as blight on the rest of the country when it comes to our education system.

 

[simplayer]

Yet somehow the Asian minority in America does the best in schools, has the highest family income and education rates, and yet the lowest divorce rates.

:x

Not that any of that translates into happiness, but to discount the success of people raised in the Asian education system, in American culture, is being willfully ignorant.

Asian americans aren't going through the same education system as their native counterparts though. The cultural attitude is still there though, which seems to give the kids quite the leg up.

 

[Coriolanus]

I know this law. I'm a nordic resident, a trained teacher and very fond of critical pedagogy
.

That sounds a lot like a natural extension of the socratic method.

Mang, if Freire were still alive, dude would be mad saddened to see the current right wing pushback happening in brazilian education. Oh well

 

[entremet]

For such a crappy education system, the US keeps on innovating.

 

[Jasup]

There is an idea in American culture that math is like painting or illustration, and you either have a gift for it or not. And I'm not even talking about number theory, I'm referring to basic calculus or even trigonometry.

Many of these concepts escape far too many college age students. They struggle needlessly during mandatory science classes and this is also part of the reason why there's such a divide between STEM and the Liberal Arts in America. The populations of both view the other as some kind of mythical land of strange and foreign peoples.

Which is obviously ridiculous because it would also imply East Asians have some kind of "math gene" that makes them better at basic math than their peers at the high school/under-grad level. I understand things are different at the post-grad level.

It's about diligence, and attitude.

edit. sorry for the rambling post.

This is common around the western world, really.

In my opinion why it is how it is, is partly due to how maths is taught in schools and due to culture.

Cultural aspects of learning mathematics can be attributed partly to social environment the student resides in, but also how that culture clashes with the school culture and the teaching culture of the academic subject. To expand this, every school subject has its own culture meaning specialized vocabulary, research and approach, and every school subject is a subject to that subject's academic culture. (forgive me for repeating things)

When learning maths a pupil doesn't have to just learn how to calculate, but to a) learn the specialist language, b) learn abstractions (1+1 for the uninitiated is completely incomprehensible) c) learn to use the approach to solving problems used by the teacher d) learn to transpose knowledge. A learning process involves learning the skills to learn the subject.

Now thinking about the child who comes to school, who has lived in a certain environment, has learned a certain set of skills and abilities, who approaches new things in a certain way, if the set of skills he has is different from the set of skills needed to learn an academic subject, then the pupil has more to learn than those who know about the conduct beforehand.

Basically what I'm saying is that family and home background has a massive effect on how children learn. In large part it's because some kids have less to learn than others, and kids from different cultural backgrounds have to work different amounts to achieve the same standardized goal in our current approach to schooling.

That sounds a lot like a natural extension of the socratic method.

Mang, if Freire were still alive, dude would be mad saddened to see the current right wing pushback happening in brazilian education. Oh well

It's very simple, there are two questions: What's taught? and What's learned?
You just go from there.

Also, if you go to a classroom where ever in the world, you know you're in a classroom. Teachers in front and students in neat little rows. Have you ever asked why this is? And what does it teach to the students?

 

[jmood88]

Yet somehow the Asian minority in America does the best in schools, has the highest family income and education rates, and yet the lowest divorce rates.

Asian americans aren't going through the same education system as their native counterparts though. The cultural attitude is still there though, which seems to give the kids quite the leg up.

Most of that has to do with the type of people the U.S. allows into the country, not a sign of some cultural superiority. This country doesn't allow a bunch of random people to get into the country, they recruit (or give priority to) immigrants who are wealthier or work in certain high-demand fields like engineering. When people talk about how (certain) immigrant groups do better than others, they're not making a fair comparison. You're cherry picking and comparing kids whose parents tend to be wealthy and well-educated with everyone else in the country who won't have those same advantages.

 

[LProtag]

As a teacher I love the Japanese idea of having kids clean up the school themselves. The students I've taught don't really have much respect for the place and make a huge mess for no reason.

I think one of the biggest things would be that our culture should respect education and treat teachers as professionals. We don't tend to do that in America. It's basically the one common thing that all countries with top educational systems share.

 

[kudoboi]

as a singaporean, fuck the asian education system. I would love to have the western education system. its just way too stressful here. i think i fell into depression 50+ times this year alone due to exams

imo the asian education system (or at least the one in Singapore) really discourages creativity and focuses too much on academic grades.

 

[mugwhump]

western highschools need to be more like anime

 

[simplayer]

Most of that has to do with the type of people the U.S. allows into the country, not a sign of some cultural superiority. This country doesn't allow a bunch of random people to get into the country, they recruit (or give priority to) immigrants who are wealthier or work in certain high-demand fields like engineering. When people talk about how (certain) immigrant groups do better than others, they're not making a fair comparison. You're cherry picking and comparing kids whose parents tend to be wealthy and well-educated with everyone else in the country who won't have those same advantages.

Could be perhaps. How do other more modern minority groups compare? I.e., do people from the middle east do as well? Central asians? Indian subcontinent?

 

[Coriolanus]

It's very simple, there are two questions: What's taught? and What's learned?
You just go from there.

Also, if you go to a classroom where ever in the world, you know you're in a classroom. Teachers in front and students in neat little rows. Have you ever asked why this is? And what does it teach to the students?

I'm guessing that ideally those two should be the same thing?

For the classroom example, that's standard sophism. Learn from authority, conform until you, propagate the method do and the like, no?

 

[Haly]

Could be perhaps. How do other more modern minority groups compare? I.e., do people from the middle east do as well? Central asians? Indian subcontinent?

Most Asian (including Middle East and Indian) immigrants do very well here, I believe. The same might be true of Eastern European immigrants although I haven't seen any stats of this first hand.

This does not have as much to do with the economic/educational backgrounds of the parents so much as the culture of being immigrants, which drives their success.

And backslashbunny's stats are outdated. African immigrants are leading the pack now, I believe, while 3rd and 4th gen Asian-American descendants of immigrants have gradually lost the hunger that made their parents monsters in the academic world and the job market.

I'll say this, though. My own parents are victims of the Chinese Cultural Revolution, which divested them of most of their previous wealth and sent them off to work on a farm. Despite this enormous setback, they've managed to make a comfortable life for our family here in America. The rest of my immediate family, too, have managed to live successful lives in Shanghai.

I don't want to say which and which culture is superior to another, but the results-oriented nature of Confuscianist culture shouldn't be brushed aside so easily.

 

[OrlanisWorks]

western highschools need to be more like anime

Inappropriate panty shots?

 

[Fafalada]

It almost comes off as a lack of confidence and initiative.

Taking initiatives and creative aspects are collectively shunned by both the education system and society in general in many parts of Asia.
That said - IMO education system is hopelessly out of date through most of the world - and this isn't going to get better as the rate of progress continues to increase.

 

[appaws]

For such a crappy education system, the US keeps on innovating.

Our higher education system is awesome, that is why. Yes, there are problems with it...institutional bloat, costs, etc. but it can't be beat as far as research and innovation.

Most Asian (including Middle East and Indian) immigrants do very well here, I believe. The same might be true of Eastern European immigrants although I haven't seen any stats of this first hand.

This does not have as much to do with the economic/educational backgrounds of the parents so much as the culture of being immigrants, which drives their success.

And backslashbunny's stats are outdated. African immigrants are leading the pack now, I believe, while 3rd and 4th gen Asian-American descendants of immigrants have gradually lost the hunger that made their parents monsters in the academic and economic world.

Yes, when I taught it was the kids who were born in Asia who were high achievers, the kids of Asian descent who grew up here were the same as all the other native born groups.

But to expand the thread a bit....so is it fair to say there are some good things about the American system, but there could obviously be improvements. Maybe there are some things that we could adopt, some smaller some larger.

How about Germany...? Isn't their system of secondary schools fundamentally different than the one in the US? I heard a brief thing on NPR about it once. Don't they identify kids with different interests and get them into a more specialized area once they reach high school age...apprenticeships, etc.?

 

[Jasup]

I'm guessing that ideally those two should be the same thing?

For the classroom example, that's standard sophism. Learn from authority, conform until you, propagate the method do and the like, no?

For the first thing, there is no ideal thing about it. Teaching and learning are always separate mechanisms.

However what I mean is what's taught necessarily involves values. For example teacher can teach about energy production going into intricacies of how combustion engines work and then states blatantly how there are "other alternative methods" involving renewables and stuff. What's taught tells pupils what's important. This involves teachers's personal opinions as well as curriculum.

What's learned apart from what's taught is another issue. Think about a student in aforementioned situation who's been taught by his ecologically aligned parents that renewable sources of energy are the future and cars are bad. The pupil can learn other viewpoints, but also to question sources of information, to lose respect for the teacher or the parents. But it can also teach the children to listen to authority, to adopt certain viewpoints etc. Furthermore what's learned is schools is basically socialization, pupils learn their social surroundings and partially form their identity around it. The academic subjects are just a part of what's learned.


The classroom question was about thinking of school as social technology that's spread arond the world. The modern schools developed into their current form during the industrial revolution. School days are constructed around set time frames to perform set tasks in a set environment basically. And what you've taught are set skills that are needed to fuel future economy (for example, what does PISA -studies measure and why are those particular subjects deemed important and not others?).

This is a rather bleak view of education I agree. Personally I do love STEM subjects as well as basic woodwork, music and art. But as an educator I want to know what I'm teaching and why I'm teaching it.

 

[MedIC86]

I've read an article (ill dig it up later if i have time) that the way the asian people get schooled is maybe superior in terms of grade's etc but they also have lots of physcological problems later on in life (this had correlation with the educationa and the way people feel the pressure to perform).

Anyway the scandinavian way of education is vastly superior to the asian.

 

[mdubs]

From Asian countries, the US needs to adopt the cultural mentality of education is good, and teacher are worth of respect. Anti-intellectualism is a big problem in the system; if parents and political leaders are constantly putting down education and teachers, it is no surprises kids don't try or respect schooling when society hold sports achievement more important than academics.

This is the best paragraph in this entire thread. It's not a problem with the school system (at least in Canada), but a problem with culture. Kids need more of a kick in the ass to learn things and there needs to be more of a negative stigma about not doing well in school. Foster critical thinking yes, but push students to be the best version of themselves they can be instead of being lazy or giving up.

 

[CraigerGamer]

Do Japanese schools test every student? In America, by law, every student must be tested. This includes students with these severe learning disabilities, English Language Learners, gifted and talented, and everyone in between. When results of the system are compared equally, student peer group to student peer group, how far behind does the U.S. really lag?

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Knowing theorems is a basic part of math. If you don't know the theorem, you can't do the math.

Proving theorems is useful for critical thinking.

Knowing the history...is optional, at best.

Exactly. As an engineer, in most cases I just need to know the first point. The second point is somewhat useful if I need to figure out why something possibly isn't working. The third is useless to me

 

[Jasup]

Do Japanese schools test every student? In America, by law, every student must be tested. This includes students with these severe learning disabilities, English Language Learners, gifted and talented, and everyone in between. When results of the system are compared equally, student peer group to student peer group, how far behind does the U.S. really lag?

If you're talking about national tests, they are not comparable with other nations.

However if you're referring to international student achievement tests (PISA being one) which are used to compare national school systems, then the schools and students that are selected are selected using same metrics. It's not for the nations to pick and choose.

 

[CraigerGamer]

Anecdotal evidence... my high school had an AMAZING system for those that had severe learning disabilities. There was a lot of support.

I'm not sure that Asian countries have the same support for the mentally challenged (in school at least), and I think that some of the more .. outdated... attitudes sometimes prevail. When everything is so competitive, it's hard to devote many resources to help those that really need help. People sorta get lost.

The Federal government has a lot to do with how well disabled children are treated. the Individual with Disabilities in Education Act has been one of the most successful pieces of legislation this country has seen...and that is with the Feds barely funding the program with a lot of the burden now lying on the states.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Exactly. As an engineer, in most cases I just need to know the first point. The second point is somewhat useful if I need to figure out why something possibly isn't working. The third is useless to me

Good for you?

I was talking about in reference to an interdisciplinary education where mathematics isn't taught or respected proper to students.

Some people can learn the formulas better if they understand how they came to be.

Math has a bit of lengthy history behind how theorems came to be.

That's a documentary and quite a few books on the theory of Pi alone.

 

[ppor]

IIRC, Malcolm Gladwell has a theory in Outliers that Asians are superior in Math topics because of how the written language and dialect is conducive to learning the topic very easily.

https://fosterreisz.wordpress.com/2...ory-of-success-–-rice-paddies-and-math-tests/

Wut?

Personally I'd credit Indian and Arabic numerals making math more conducive to learning. Not Chinese writing.