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[GoldenEye 007]

There needs to be a breakthrough in tracking tech that cannot be turned off by anyone on the plane. Along with a black box style level of ruggedness for the satellite based tracking signal/antenna that can survive crash impacts, fire, water, etc.

 

[coleco]

What's the evidence it was terrorism, exactly?

There's no evidence but the circumstances make them think it could be terrorism: good weather, high altitude, sudden event, no distress calls, rare final maneuver, plane was apparently fine before taking off.

 

[mercenar1e]

maybe its just me but i think most of the recent crashes have involved Airbus planes? i would feel safer on a Boeing.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

maybe its just me but i think most of the recent crashes have involved Airbus planes? i would probably feel safer on a Boeing.

By this reasoning, then you would have to assume Boeing would be due for an accident. Which is to say, stop using that kind of reasoning.

 

[Psychotext]

Man, I wish we had better tracking devices on those birds.

Call me paranoid / crazy... but I'm half tempted to have my SPOT in tracking mode next time I fly.

http://findmespot.eu/en/index.php?cid=100

Wouldn't have time to activate it in an emergency, but I wouldn't be surprised if it survived a crash. Better chance of finding my body!

 

[Lunafreya Nox Fleuret]

The fact they don't know what happened yet scares me more than anything, RIP everyone on the flight. This is horrible.

 

[raphier]

Don't worry. The probability to die on a plane is still infinitesimal. If anything there will be more controls in the coming weeks.

The probability is like 0.00000001%, and yet they happen yearly like lottery wins happen every month. Statistics are funny like that. The winner is always at 100%

 

[GameAddict411]

maybe its just me but i think most of the recent crashes have involved Airbus planes? i would feel safer on a Boeing.

That's a really flawed logic. The biggest mystery of the airline aviation crashes belongs to the flight MH370 and it was Boeing's flagship the Boeing 777.

 

[Trouble]

maybe its just me but i think most of the recent crashes have involved Airbus planes? i would feel safer on a Boeing.

The A320 is the most common 3+3 narrow body airframe in use (737 is 2nd). On the news earlier they were saying one takes off every 6 seconds.

 

[Aerogamer]

It kind of irks me that CNN keeps showing an A330 on their stock footage like it is the aircraft that went missing. As someone that works in the industry it is a nitpick.

 

[Log4Girlz]

maybe its just me but i think most of the recent crashes have involved Airbus planes? i would feel safer on a Boeing.

Airbus is incredibly common. The odds are good that any particular flight, especially in Europe, will involve an Airbus. IIRC this model is the best selling single aisle jet with 6k having been built.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

It wouldn't take much at that altitude for a small detonation within the aircraft to rupture the hull and cause an explosive decompression.

Those black boxes need to be found.

The crash site needs to be found first.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

also the smaller airbus can be used on pretty much any (such as previously military) airport, where the much larger 747's are limited to major airports only.

If you're looking for cheaper tickets on a flight, you tend come up with a smaller airport, and thereby a smaller airplane (which also takes less seats to be sold, and so on).


btw, since nobody brought it up: it is possible to 'hack' an airplane from a suitable access point. Instead of going for terrorism, somebody really fucking up should be your first speculation. The uncontrolled descent with no warming sign gives the impression either the system was out or the pilots were (also keeping in mind that one suicidal co-pilot can single-handedly crash a plane too), which could happen for just about any reason. Over-fatigued pilot or heart attack for instance, while still handling controls.

 

[-Stranger-]

So has the wreckage been found or not?
Seems to be lots of conflicting reports..

 

[brian577]

So has the wreckage been found or not?
Seems to be lots of conflicting reports..

Not yet. They've expanded the search area. Greece, Egypt, France and the UK all looking. Still no claim of responsibility either. They did find some life jackets but they weren't from the plane.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I never really looked at the logo for Egyptair before but the moment I saw it, I realized it had to be Horus.

I really hope this wasn't another terrorist act

 

[-Stranger-]

Not yet. They've expanded the search area. Greece, Egypt, France and the UK all looking. Still no claim of responsibility either. They did find some life jackets but they weren't from the plane.

Wow pretty disturbing stuff

 

[-Stranger-]

How about this for a weird coincidence..

It's been 804 days since the MH370 has disappeared. EqyptAir plane's flight number is 804. A bit freaky.

 

[Tabris]

Scary thing about this for me is we were thinking of going from Dubai to Egypt for a day or two to see the pyramids just a couple of days ago. I mean I know it was a flight from Paris to Cairo, but still, never know what may have changed.

 

[spekkeh]

So the US says it wasn't an explosion based on imagery

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/733398982538493953

Weird. So they saw a fire but it wasn't an explosion, or didn't they see a fire? Effing tweets.

That freak accident where the transponder catches fire and burns the plane down.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

How about this for a weird coincidence..

It's been 804 days since the MH370 has disappeared. EqyptAir plane's flight number is 804. A bit freaky.

...wow. That coincidence is ridiculous.

 

[danowat]

maybe its just me but i think most of the recent crashes have involved Airbus planes? i would feel safer on a Boeing.

The recent Flydubai crash in Russia was a 737-800

 

[Jezbollah]

The crash site needs to be found first.

Given the size of the Med this shouldn't take long.

 

[seanoff]

btw, since nobody brought it up: it is possible to 'hack' an airplane from a suitable access point. Instead of going for terrorism, somebody really fucking up should be your first speculation. The uncontrolled descent with no warming sign gives the impression either the system was out or the pilots were (also keeping in mind that one suicidal co-pilot can single-handedly crash a plane too), which could happen for just about any reason. Over-fatigued pilot or heart attack for instance, while still handling controls.

well yes. but the suitable point is the avionics bay on the aircraft. they are a closed system there is no need for an inbound signal so there isnt one. and they are wired, so you need to get to the wires to effect the performance. they also use one way buses for things where you think you may be able to access. ie info going to the IFE about the flight like height, speed position etc there is no return bus. they also have very robust data validation. mmm does that look right. yep/nup if no then what. with the pitot tube problem the flight director/autopilot if it gets conflicting or incorrect speed data turns off and basically says to the pilot yo i'm out you deal with it.

and pilots do not hand fly the aircraft in cruise except in limited circumstances. the FD can take-off, fly to destination and land if necssary and by some airlines autoland is mandated. even in the germanwings suicide the co-pilot probably just set the FD and sat back

 

[danowat]

and pilots do not hand fly the aircraft in cruise except in limited circumstances. the FD can take-off, fly to destination and land if necssary and by some airlines autoland is mandated. even in the germanwings suicide the co-pilot probably just set the FD and sat back

FD is just an overlay on the PFD, the pilot can use the FD as a guide to maintain the course generated by the FMC / Nav aids during manual flight.

There are a few instances where pilots will manually fly during cruise, that being any mechanical / electrical failure, at least until they are sure it won't affect things, many carriers have a blanket rule about manual flight during certain icing conditions, which could be attributed to some accidents where icing and subsequent stalling has been present, there is also a certain level of turbulence in which the pilots will return to manual flight.

You've also got to appreciate the flight logic system of the Airbus system, manual flight isn't truly manual flight, because there are always a number of logic systems inbuilt in the flight control system (A-Floor etc) that will override the pilot inputs if the flight system thinks things are going wrong.

 

[ponpo]

FD is just an overlay on the PFD, the pilot can use the FD as a guide to maintain the course generated by the FMC / Nav aids during manual flight.

There are a few instances where pilots will manually fly during cruise, that being any mechanical / electrical failure, at least until they are sure it won't affect things, many carriers have a blanket rule about manual flight during certain icing conditions, which could be attributed to some accidents where icing and subsequent stalling has been present, there is also a certain level of turbulence in which the pilots will return to manual flight.

You've also got to appreciate the flight logic system of the Airbus system, manual flight isn't truly manual flight, because there are always a number of logic systems inbuilt in the flight control system (A-Floor etc) that will override the pilot inputs if the flight system thinks things are going wrong.

What kind? I would have assumed the computer controllers would be be able to adapt more quickly and precisely to turbulence.

 

[Mohonky]

How about this for a weird coincidence..

It's been 804 days since the MH370 has disappeared. EqyptAir plane's flight number is 804. A bit freaky.

LOST

 

[danowat]

What kind? I would have assumed the computer controllers would be be able to adapt more quickly and precisely to turbulence.

Generally in severe turbulence, when the constant corrections the autopilot is trying to make might over stress the airframe.

Back to the incident in question....

Pure speculation, but looking at the fact that the plane went missing in a transitional airspace area, maybe it didn't even crash, and the transponder was just turned off?

 

[seanoff]

There needs to be a breakthrough in tracking tech that cannot be turned off by anyone on the plane. Along with a black box style level of ruggedness for the satellite based tracking signal/antenna that can survive crash impacts, fire, water, etc.

umm the MH370 engines were trying to communicate. thats how they got southern ocean. but that was once an hr. they were pinging home and wondering why nothing was coming back lots are aircraft engines are monitored real time by the engine manufacturer, either RR or GE

but there were other things going on there. someone with very intimate knowledge of the systems not only turned off the transponder but also tuned off the satellite comms which would have required a trip underfloor on the 777 to do so. there is nothing in the cockpit that allows that to happen

but they didnt lose tracking here. the transponder going off fits with the naked radar of the plane falling out of the sky.

also prudence dictates that anything electrical on an aircraft that may go wrong needs to be able to be be turned off. you dont really want a short circuit being it. "oops the secure sat beacon has a short" "oh well, thats it then we got no way of stopping that, bye been a nice life:"

 

[seanoff]

FD is just an overlay on the PFD, the pilot can use the FD as a guide to maintain the course generated by the FMC / Nav aids during manual flight.

There are a few instances where pilots will manually fly during cruise, that being any mechanical / electrical failure, at least until they are sure it won't affect things, many carriers have a blanket rule about manual flight during certain icing conditions, which could be attributed to some accidents where icing and subsequent stalling has been present, there is also a certain level of turbulence in which the pilots will return to manual flight.

You've also got to appreciate the flight logic system of the Airbus system, manual flight isn't truly manual flight, because there are always a number of logic systems inbuilt in the flight control system (A-Floor etc) that will override the pilot inputs if the flight system thinks things are going wrong.

as i said, limited circumstances and used pitot tube icing as an example.

and yes the wonderous. normal and alternate law. i still think airbus should have another mode. ie manual flight.

 

[danowat]

as i said, limited circumstances and used pitot tube icing as an example.

and yes the wonderous. normal and alternate law. i still think airbus should have another mode. ie manual flight.

Mechanical backup law is almost manual control, but it's a fallback mode in the event of a problem, but there is no way for a pilot to select any different law anyway.

I am not sure how I feel about fully FBW systems myself...........

 

[brian577]

Back to the incident in question....

Pure speculation, but looking at the fact that the plane went missing in a transitional airspace area, maybe it didn't even crash, and the transponder was just turned off?

And where exactly did it go and how did it avoid being seen on radar? An unknown aircraft with no transponder is going to set off some alarms. Flying below radar would mean A: Being spotted by eye and B: consuming a lot more fuel, and considering it was at end of the flight, probably not a lot left.

 

[danowat]

And where exactly did it go and how did it avoid being seen on radar? An unknown aircraft with no transponder is going to set off some alarms. Flying below radar would mean A: Being spotted by eye and B: consuming a lot more fuel, and considering it was at end of the flight, probably not a lot left.

recent (unsubstantiated) reports state that contact wasn't lost until FL100, maybe it dipped under civilian radar?.

If it wasn't Egyptair, who got hijacked only a short while ago, I would say that occums razor states it has crashed.

The area in question is under alot of military scrutiny, not only have the UK and US got military presence, I am sure the Israelis keep a firm eye on the area, I would imagine someone knows whats going on.

 

[UnluckyKate]

every declaration of debris or wreckage found, were redacted at later time. Egyptian officials are really jumping the shark.

And still no revendication either...

I wonder how deep in the sea around where it lost contact, the beacon have around 4KM of emission radius ? Hope they can find the wreck soon

 

[danowat]

every declaration of debris or wreckage found, were redacted at later time. Egyptian officials are really jumping the shark.

And still no revendication either...

I wonder how deep in the sea around where it lost contact, the beacon have around 4KM of emission radius ? Hope they can find the wreck soon

depth?, maybe 2km.

You've got to remember that the area in question is probably swimming in flotsam and jetsum, refugee debris and lifejackets will cloud the search.

 

[brian577]

recent (unsubstantiated) reports state that contact wasn't lost until FL100, maybe it dipped under civilian radar?.

OK, and how would the hijackers get around the problems with flying below radar.

 

[danowat]

OK, and how would the hijackers get around the problems with flying below radar.

I've no idea, I am just offering an alternative discussion point.

 

[UnluckyKate]

depth?, maybe 2km.

You've got to remember that the area in question is probably swimming in flotsam and jetsum, refugee debris and lifejackets will cloud the search.

yeah it will be a tough search.

And Australia announcing they will stop research for MH870, thats the first time we abandon search for a commercial jet in modern age ?

 

[brian577]

I've no idea, I am just offering an alternative discussion point.

A baseless theory you can't even backup?. No offense, but you are not adding anything.

 

[danowat]

A baseless theory you can't even backup?. No offense, but you are not adding anything.

That's what the whole tread is, everything at the moment is a baseless theory, no one is, or can add anything of value because no one knows what happened.

No offense, but neither are you.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Egypt TV : The Egyptian Army found the plane wreckage 290 KM of Alexanderia.

 

[UnluckyKate]

Egypt TV : The Egyptian Army found the plane wreckage 290 KM of Alexanderia.

For Real this time? They been announcing shit legend right all day

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

For Real this time? They been announcing shit legend right all day

I think so since the Army found some personal belongings of some of the passengers and are currently searching for the Black Box.
Again the source is Egypt TV

 

[ponpo]

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/05/19/middleeast/egyptair-flight-804-liveblog/index.html

BREAKING: Plane debris found, says Egypt military
Egyptian armed forces say they have found debris from EgyptAir flight 804 in the Mediterranean, according to Egyptian military spokesman Brigadier General Mohammad Samir.

More on located plane debris
Passenger belongings and parts of EgyptAir Flight 804 have been found 290 km (180 miles) north of the coastal city Alexandria, according to a statement from the Egyptian armed forces.

EgyptAir confirms on Twitter
EgyptAir has confirmed reports debris from Flight 804 has been located and offered its condolences to the families of those presumed dead on board the aircraft.

"EgyptAir mourns the families of the flight 804 victims and expresses its deep regret for this tragic incident."
هذا وتنعي مصرللطيران أسر ضحايا الطائرة وتعرب عن بالغ اسفها لهذا الحادث الأليم. #MS804
— EGYPTAIR (@EGYPTAIR) May 20, 2016

 

[Chittagong]

Good that they found it and it didn't go MH370. Unless they jumped the gun again. Shouldn't be too many days until we know what happened.

 

[womfalcs3]

For Real this time? They been announcing shit legend right all day

The first time was Greek authorities saying it, and from that Egypt Airlines said it (both of which not heading the investigation, Egypt's Civil Aviation is). Now, it's the Egyptian military finding it and announcing it.

 

[Khoryos]

Also, man, those "content aware" ads for discount airlines. When keyword triggers go wrong.

I've got airlines and *Life Insurance*.

 

[Qvoth]

hopefully we got some survivors this time

 

[RoadHazard]

hopefully we got some survivors this time

Extremely unlikely.

 

[UnluckyKate]

hopefully we got some survivors this time

Very little to no chance at all considering the fall rate