Support NeoGAF

[RagnarokX]

The games should at least have optional tutorials. The game has to be accessible and optional tutorials are the best way of doing that without dumbing down the game. The alternative is making the game accessible by lowering the skill-level requirement, which is essentially what ALBW did. I'm afraid that's what's going to end up happening here. I don't want another Tomb Raider style reboot dumbing down a beloved franchise. How is it more insulting to the player to give the option of having tutorials than it is for the developer to just assume all of the players are stupid and make the game easier?

Fi made me hate skyward sword. It was so hard to find any satisfaction when completing puzzles when she just tells you what to do most of the time. I'm really excited for this potentially new direction, if its like A Link Between Worlds but with harder dungeons, then the game could be the perfect 3D Zelda for me.

Does not happen. There are 2 examples in the whole game where Fi MIGHT spoil a simple puzzle but she gives you a chance to figure it out on your own first.

Next thing :

Don't included something like tears from tp or ss

The tears in TP were awful and part of the "tutorialization" of TP. The tears in SS, however, were amazing. They were a very fun and terrifying challenge.

Beginners should rtfm or gtfo.

Don't bog down the actual game's pacing with condescending tutorials. Not like Zelda is super complex in the first place, controls can be figured out by pressing buttons and experimenting a little bit.


Respect the player.

Skyward Sword does respect the player. They don't even force you to learn how to use the sword ffs. The game is fairly hands off. It just has some minorly annoying interruptions that it could stand to get rid of that make no impact on the difficulty of the game.

Not really a fan of hands-off world-building, I suppose. It's all the same sort of white-noise. Kind of a trite point to make in a Zelda thread, nowadays, but in a sentence: my actions are the world.

I was refering to Skyward Sword. Twilight Princess was hours upon hours of tutorials. Skyward Sword trimmed almost all tutorials. They made the environments between dungeons actually challenge the player rather than the awful tear-hunting tours of Twilight Princess.

Exactly this. Preach it, brother.


My nephew got really annoyed and rolled his eyes every time we picked up a bigger rupee/insect/regular drop in a new game session in SS. Finding a new item for the first time was always great and exciting. But popping up the text for the most mundane items every fucking time.... my god Nintendo, why didn't you listen to your playtesters?


YOU FOUND A BLUE RUPEE! ITS WORTH FIVE RUPEES. BETTER DROP IT IN YOUR WALLET FOR NOW
YOU FOUND A BLUE RUPEE! ITS WORTH FIVE RUPEES. BETTER DROP IT IN YOUR WALLET FOR NOW.
YOU FOUND A BLUE RUPEE! ITS WORTH FIVE RUPEES. BETTER DROP IT IN YOUR WALLET FOR NOW.
YOU FOUND A BLUE RUPEE! ITS WORTH FIVE RUPEES. BETTER DROP IT IN YOUR WALLET FOR NOW.
YOU FOUND A BLUE RUPEE! ITS WORTH FIVE RUPEES. BETTER DROP IT IN YOUR WALLET FOR NOW.
YOU FOUND A BLUE RUPEE! ITS WORTH FIVE RUPEES. BETTER DROP IT IN YOUR WALLET FOR NOW.

Does not happen. The rupee thing was Twilight Princess. The treasures interupted you for 1 second the first time you picked up each in a new play session, which is unfortunate, but not that big a deal.

I don't think it's true that SS was a step in the direction that people want. SS extended an unpopular trend of locking most of the "overworld" behind plot gates, and the game's most famous structural innovation was to turn overworld areas into linear obstacle courses. Now, most fans probably prefer puzzles to nothing in the overworld, but when fans complain about linearity in SS, they're not talking about a flaw arising from half-steps or technical limitations: they're talking about a core design feature. And here I will speak just for myself: I have been clamoring for a compact overworld for a long time. I'd be happy with a world no larger than MM's if it were densely layered with content. But one of the reasons I want a compact world is because I think it works better for the kind of un-guided, fast-paced exploring and backtracking that makes the early games (and ALBW) so much fun. SS largely eliminates this aspect of the series. It is not a model I want EAD to follow.

Zelda was already linear before SS. In OoT you cannot do things out of order before you get the master sword, and even then you are very limited on that. You need to talk to Zelda to enter Death Mountain trail. You have to talk to Saria to get Saria's Song to get the Goron Bracelet from Darunia to get into Dodongo's Cavern. You need to get the bombs from Dodongo's Cavern to enter Zora's Domain. You can't enter Gerudo Valley at all. Majora's Mask is one of the most linear games in the series. Wind Waker forces you along linear paths for more than half the game. Twilight Princess blocks you from visiting areas in the order it doesn't want you to visit them in with gates and stuff.

At least Skyward Sword made the world more than an empty hallway between dungeons. These are equivalent areas in OoT, TP, and SS:

Death Mountain (OoT):

Death Mountain (TP):

Eldin Volcano (SS):

Huge jump in complexity. Lots of fun to explore.

ALTTP or LADX are still the gold standard for me, though. Minimal story intro where the cutscene before it is skippable, then it immediately thrusts you into the world and intuitively teaches you about having to explore in this game (to search for your uncle at first, your immediate motivation). At the same time, it teaches you about secret pathways right from the get-go by making the main way to progress one of them, which you are gently shepherded into finding by the environment design alone. You then get the sword immediately, along with further cause to push on. In the very next room, it teaches you about combat by gently introducing tough but not unbeatable enemies. For the beginner, they are tough enough to run from in higher numbers, which leads most people to running towards the entrance of the castle as soon as they're outside. It then again very gently shepherds you along to your first mini-boss encounter, Zelda's prison guard. And so on and so on.

All this without interrupting your play at all, really. It's genius how it actually teaches you about the whole game in the escape tutorial until the sanctuary, gradually raising the difficulty to a challenging but comfortable level. As much as SMB1 has books written about its design, the same way ALTTP works. In-context, non-text-heavy tutorial design for a difficult-to-explain, hybrid open-world/item-progression-based system. It still amazes me so much every time I play it. That's how they need to do it.

Link's Awakening? You mean the game the won't shut up about telling you with v e r y s l o w textboxes that you don't have the correct item equipped whenever you touch a pot, rock, skull, or crystal and where every boss repeatedly interrupts their battles with v e r y s l o w textboxes to tell you what their weaknesses are? And heaven forbid you pick up a guardian acorn or a piece of power. That's a gold standard for tutorials? Even Skyward Sword's interruptions and Twilight Princess' long tutorials aren't that annoying.

The only thing that anyone should have "trouble" explaining is the triforce and the three timelines BS which is talking about the series at large rather than each individual game.

SS is the only one I haven't played yet but I'd say the most complicated games where MM and OoT and even then it's only complicated when you start talking about the sequels/prequels.

Really story isn't a big thing in the series, the dungeons and exploration are. Your goal is to stop bow--I mean Ganon and this usually involves either saving or working with pea--I mean Zelda.

OoT isn't complicated apart from the ending because of the timeline split. Wind Waker and its sequels, Twilight Princess, and Skyward Sword are all much more complicated.

 

[georly]

-SkywardSwordRantSnip-

You're the ultimate SS champion! I like you.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

You're the ultimate SS champion! I like you.

Hahaha
Yeah, RagnarokX is pretty cool.
It's ok to not like SS, but ridiculous hyperbole often overwhelms legit criticisms of the game in these threads.

 

[gdt]

They always say this. Pre SS was full of this talk.

 

[Amazeballs]

Hahaha
Yeah, RagnarokX is pretty cool.
It's ok to not like SS, but ridiculous hyperbole often overwhelms legit criticisms of the game in these threads.

Any battle against internet Hyperbole is an uphill battle. I do have issues with Skyward Sword but the most common ones are so blown out of proportion it makes me wonder if the people slinging them around have even played the game.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Wow fighting the same boss over and over again.. I know people like koklotos the most but I feel that the last Girihim fight was the best! I felt like a glorified G (lol) during that fight.

 

[Dice//]

Depends on the exploration. I'd rather see cool things than do hop, skips, and jumps across lava terrain, or sinking sand, or [annoyingly] manoeuvring around in water, or swinging weapons around.

I think the problem with SS, the biggest one, was that it was simply repetitive. And not just in solely in its core gameplay, but in its bosses, its enemies, the places you visit, the messages you see, the travelling to do, etc.

The actual gameplay, solving puzzles and the occasional fight (i.e.; non-repeated boss fights and mini-bosses) were legitimately fun... But you spend a lot of time just "figuring places out" than really seeing something cool (since it was lumped into elemental playgrounds, you knew what to expect outside of the strange, and admittedly unique, denizens scattered within).

Otherwise:
- 3 Imprisoned Fights (it sucked the first time, what made them think I wanted to do it 2 more times?)
- 3 Ghirahim battles (the first two are very samey; I will say it was pretty fun to have a duel; but a lot of bosses did that nonetheless)
- 2 extra "victory laps" around prehistoric[?] Hyrule (which were more obstacle courses than actual "lands" to visit and traverse... Admittedly, Lanayru had a fun gimmick going for it)
- 4 annoying Tears of Light scenarios (which was meant to give a good challenge... or minor heart attack)
- A billion messages from Fi (whos only saving grace was a cool synth voice)
- A billion item messages for shit we have 99 of
- Unneeded weapon/item upgrades
- Most enemies killed by sword (then the game "ups the ante" by making most of them need "direction-specific" hits... which was cool I guess, but while I never had a problem with the 1:1 control feel, it feels like getting what direction I wanted to slice was another problem entirely)
- Pointless sidequesting for an almost non-reward (weapon upgrade was a plot-point)
- Despite people's well-known issue with the Great Sea in Wind Waker....we get THE SKY!!! An even LESS eventful place.

(I will say that despite my complaining, both the Ancient Cistern and Kolotos are both like....in my Top 5 or 10 Zelda dungeon experiences...ironically enough)

Other Zelda games make travel/exploration a great part of the experience.... SS felt too much like I was being tested the whole game long. I DO admire what they did, it kept the action up at almost all times and gave you something to do; but kinda like Shadow of the Colossus and Ocarina of Time/Twilight Princess -- sometimes you don't need it and it's just as great to wander.

 

[Bucket Mouse]

The constant warping between the uneventful sky and the three ground zones did a lot to break my immersion and highlight the fact I was playing on dated hardware. Imagine if in Zelda U you could jump on a loftwing at any point and seamlessly fly into the sky to find large floating islands.

 

[RagnarokX]

.

Depends on the exploration. I'd rather see cool things than do hop, skips, and jumps across lava terrain, or sinking sand, or [annoyingly] manoeuvring around in water, or swinging weapons around.

I think the problem with SS, the biggest one, was that it was simply repetitive. And not just in solely in its core gameplay, but in its bosses, its enemies, the places you visit, the messages you see, the travelling to do, etc.

The actual gameplay, solving puzzles and the occasional fight (i.e.; non-repeated boss fights and mini-bosses) were legitimately fun... But you spend a lot of time just "figuring places out" than really seeing something cool (since it was lumped into elemental playgrounds, you knew what to expect outside of the strange, and admittedly unique, denizens scattered within).

Otherwise:
- 3 Imprisoned Fights (it sucked the first time, what made them think I wanted to do it 2 more times?) These fights change significantly each time. The first fight is plain. In the second fight he begins climbing the cliffs and Groose helps you with the Groosenator. In the third he starts flying and you have to be launched via the Groosenator. There are multiple ways to tackle each fight.
- 3 Ghirahim battles (the first two are very samey; I will say it was pretty fun to have a duel; but a lot of bosses did that nonetheless) Again, pretty significant changes. The second fight is much more challenging and the third is essentially completely different.
- 2 extra "victory laps" around prehistoric[?] Hyrule (which were more obstacle courses than actual "lands" to visit and traverse... Admittedly, Lanayru had a fun gimmick going for it) Tadnotes, metal gear Link, and a new section of the desert. People didn't like the tadnotes but they were a pretty unique challenge in the game. The other two sections were more traditional but still fun challenges
- 4 annoying Tears of Light scenarios (which was meant to give a good challenge... or minor heart attack)The Silent Realms were a great part of the game. Very challenging missions that greatly test your abilities and are flatout horrifying
- A billion messages from Fi (whos only saving grace was a cool synth voice) Not as many as people make it seem
- A billion item messages for shit we have 99 of only the first time you pick each thing up in a play session
- Unneeded weapon/item upgrades Unlike a lot of upgrade systems the item upgrades in this game are pretty useful
- Most enemies killed by sword (then the game "ups the ante" by making most of them need "direction-specific" hits... which was cool I guess, but while I never had a problem with the 1:1 control feel, it feels like getting what direction I wanted to slice was another problem entirely) Seems to be user error or faulty hardware. Had absolutely no issue with the controls that weren't my fault
- Pointless sidequesting for an almost non-reward (weapon upgrade was a plot-point) ???
- Despite people's well-known issue with the Great Sea in Wind Waker....we get THE SKY!!! An even LESS eventful place. While it's unfortunate how empty the sky was, you don't spend very much time in it

(I will say that despite my complaining, both the Ancient Cistern and Kolotos are both like....in my Top 5 or 10 Zelda dungeon experiences...ironically enough)

Other Zelda games make travel/exploration a great part of the experience.... SS felt too much like I was being tested the whole game long. I DO admire what they did, it kept the action up at almost all times and gave you something to do; but kinda like Shadow of the Colossus and Ocarina of Time/Twilight Princess -- sometimes you don't need it and it's just as great to wander. You can't wander in OoT and TP. The games funnel you through the areas in the order they want you to visit them in just the same. If wandering around the vast emptiness of OoT's Hyrule Field was enough to scratch that itch for you the less empty but more vast sky should do the trick. Ironically the dowsing mechanic is borrowed from SotC. It's optional and you don't have to use it, but it's just the same as lifting your sword in SotC and following the light beam.

 

[Nickle]

Death Mountain (OoT):

Death Mountain (TP):

Eldin Volcano (SS):

I always find it hilarious when these pictures are posted, because the only similarities they share are that they are both mountain stages.

-Death Mountain in OoT and TP is a much smaller section of the game, whereas that particular SS area is like 1/6 of the entire overworld. You might spend 20-30 minutes in TP Death Mountain, but 6 hours on Eldin Volcano.
-You only have to go up TP Death Mountain once, unless you decide to do optional sidequests. You go up OoT Death Mountain a maximum of three times for the story, and even then it is not long of a trek. It is mandatory that you travel through a significant portion of Eldin Volcano 4 different times.
-That OoT picture shows Link literally facing a dungeon, and directly above him is a piece of heart and falling boulders. It only looks empty from that camera angle.
-Eldin Volcano looks complex from the map view, but in reality their is only one path you can follow for most of the journey, just like in TP and OoT. If you take out all of the lava and replace it with a bottomless chasm(so no lava is shown on the map), you will see that the map is actually far more linear then at first glance.

 

[RagnarokX]

I always find it hilarious when these pictures are posted, because the only similarities they share are that they are both mountain stages.

-Death Mountain in OoT and TP is a much smaller section of the game, whereas that particular SS area is like 1/6 of the entire overworld. You might spend 20-30 minutes in TP Death Mountain, but 6 hours on Eldin Volcano.
-You only have to go up TP Death Mountain once, unless you decide to do optional sidequests. You go up OoT Death Mountain a maximum of three times for the story, and even then it is not long of a trek. It is mandatory that you travel through a significant portion of Eldin Volcano 4 different times.
-That OoT picture shows Link literally facing a dungeon, and directly above him is a piece of heart and falling boulders. It only looks empty from that camera angle.
-Eldin Volcano looks complex from the map view, but in reality their is only one path you can follow for most of the journey, just like in TP and OoT. If you take out all of the lava and replace it with a bottomless chasm(so no lava is shown on the map), you will see that the map is actually far more linear then at first glance.

-In OoT, TP, and SS you have a series of linear themed areas connected by a big empty hub world. In OoT and TP this hub world is Hyrule Field and in Skyward Sword the hub world is The Sky. The main difference between the first two and SS is that the level design in these areas is significantly improved to actually challenge the player rather than be simple hallways leading to the dungeon.
-You have to go up TP Death Mountain twice because there are light tears up near the goron village. The areas aren't significantly different in the Twilight and the wolf segments serve mostly to waste your time. Once you get past the awful light tear sequence and are finally given the privilege of climbing the mountain in human form, you are forced to return to Ordon Village to sumo wrestle the mayor for iron boots so you can get past the Gorons up there, but then on the way back to the mountain you have to rescue those annoying kids from King Bulbin. Imagine if SS sent you back to Skyloft in the middle of exploring the volcano and then forced you to do another Wing Ceremony match on the way back.
-It's empty in that you just climb the mountain. It's a fairly uncomplicated path. Whereas with SS...
-...yes, it's still linear, but it is more complex. You don't have to use the dowsing mechanic to show you the correct path, and along the way there are lots of things to figure out to open the path forward and make progress. You have to learn how to bowl bombs to solve puzzles and stuff.

 

[Laconic]

The game needs to look to its sister series's pinnacle example of how to make a tutorial: Super Metroid.

 

[Macapala]

Sounds good to me!

Now Aonuma needs to make the game a decent challenge when it comes to difficulty. I'm not saying a game has to be ridiculously hard for me to enjoy it, I just don't want TP level of difficulty.

 

[cascardian]

Link's Awakening? You mean the game the won't shut up about telling you with v e r y s l o w textboxes that you don't have the correct item equipped whenever you touch a pot, rock, skull, or crystal and where every boss repeatedly interrupts their battles with v e r y s l o w textboxes to tell you what their weaknesses are? And heaven forbid you pick up a guardian acorn or a piece of power. That's a gold standard for tutorials? Even Skyward Sword's interruptions and Twilight Princess' long tutorials aren't that annoying.

Hah! I stand corrected. Very good points that I completely forgot about. Well, I did focus more on ALTTP, but you're right. I'm just very used to skipping the textboxes with the pause glitch.

 

[Blues1990]

 

[Nickle]

-In OoT, TP, and SS you have a series of linear themed areas connected by a big empty hub world. In OoT and TP this hub world is Hyrule Field and in Skyward Sword the hub world is The Sky. The main difference between the first two and SS is that the level design in these areas is significantly improved to actually challenge the player rather than be simple hallways leading to the dungeon.
-You have to go up TP Death Mountain twice because there are light tears up near the goron village. The areas aren't significantly different in the Twilight and the wolf segments serve mostly to waste your time. Once you get past the awful light tear sequence and are finally given the privilege of climbing the mountain in human form, you are forced to return to Ordon Village to sumo wrestle the mayor for iron boots so you can get past the Gorons up there, but then on the way back to the mountain you have to rescue those annoying kids from King Bulbin. Imagine if SS sent you back to Skyloft in the middle of exploring the volcano and then forced you to do another Wing Ceremony match on the way back.
-It's empty in that you just climb the mountain. It's a fairly uncomplicated path. Whereas with SS...
-...yes, it's still linear, but it is more complex. You don't have to use the dowsing mechanic to show you the correct path, and along the way there are lots of things to figure out to open the path forward and make progress. You have to learn how to bowl bombs to solve puzzles and stuff.

-OoT's hub world sucked, but I give it a pass because it was one of the first 3D game to ever do something like that, and the hardware was not good enough to do much more then it did. Although TP's Hyrule Field was mostly lacking, riding around in Epona was still fun, and the bridges, gorges, and rivers gave the field a nice variety.
Another thing to note is that both TP and OoT had 9 dungeons, while SS had 7.
If you combine the content from:
A. The area with the pillars in the sand sea.
B. The Lanayru dragon challenge.
C. The sand sea area where you get the ability to douse for the ghost ship.
D. The giant tree in Faron Woods.
And E. The second portion of Eldon Volcano.
... Then you would get about two good dungeons worth of content. SS might have a more complex overworld, but it sacrifices dungeons just to make the overworld more like a theme park. As a result, the surface is very unrealistic and makes no sense other then to let Link continue his journey. OoT and TP may have had simpler sections, but most of them actually served a purpose to the creatures of the game world.
-I actually forgot about the Light Tear segment of Death Mountain. I usually rushed through them to get to human Link. I hope the next Zelda stays far away from things like it. Oh, and human Link is stopped from going up the mountain at the very beggining, not halfway through.
-Yes, you pretty much have to douse to find the key pieces, unless you want to dig up every single soft spot in the earth, which would be stupid game design. No, you don't have to douse to find your way up to the top, because their is no other path you can take that would let you astray.

 

[Tookay]

They always say this. Pre SS was full of this talk.

No they didn't.

Pre-ALBW was full of this talk and they lived up to it.

 

[Nightengale]

Open world
Princess Mononoke world style
Give it to me

 

[cascardian]

By the way, for anyone considering a playthrough of SS, you might find this interesting.

 

[PetriP-TNT]

Haven't they been saying this since TP?

 

[koopas]

Hasn't this been standard Nintendo talking points for years at this point?

There are Nintendo games with little to no tutorials (ie. Pikmin 3) but plenty with tons (ie. Mario and Luigi).

Pikmin 3 could use a tutorial quite frankly.

Playing it through it now and still questioning things (what do those small berries do that a gather that seem to be from an infinite plant?)

 

[KillerDark]

That's great news!

 

[Dice//]

By the way, for anyone considering a playthrough of SS, you might find this interesting.

I wish I knew how to put them codes in, the game might then go up a full letter grade.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Good game design = no tutorials in the traditional sense

 

[flatearthpandas]

Tutorials are fine as long as I have to put up with them once and not every time I turn the game on.

Tricky owls are also okay.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

The games should at least have optional tutorials. The game has to be accessible and optional tutorials are the best way of doing that without dumbing down the game. The alternative is making the game accessible by lowering the skill-level requirement, which is essentially what ALBW did. I'm afraid that's what's going to end up happening here. I don't want another Tomb Raider style reboot dumbing down a beloved franchise. How is it more insulting to the player to give the option of having tutorials than it is for the developer to just assume all of the players are stupid and make the game easier?

I disagree with your premise. The lack of a tutorial isn't the lack of an introductory phase. People want to be taught, they don't want a tutorial. It's like teaching people to program by making them read a book and write out examples on paper. Why not expose your players to "real" problems?

I'll elaborate further, if you'd like, but I think its fairly self-explanatory?

Sorry, I'm posting from a phone at the moment.

 

[RagnarokX]

-OoT's hub world sucked, but I give it a pass because it was one of the first 3D game to ever do something like that, and the hardware was not good enough to do much more then it did. Although TP's Hyrule Field was mostly lacking, riding around in Epona was still fun, and the bridges, gorges, and rivers gave the field a nice variety.
Another thing to note is that both TP and OoT had 9 dungeons, while SS had 7.
If you combine the content from:
A. The area with the pillars in the sand sea.
B. The Lanayru dragon challenge.
C. The sand sea area where you get the ability to douse for the ghost ship.
D. The giant tree in Faron Woods.
And E. The second portion of Eldon Volcano.
... Then you would get about two good dungeons worth of content. SS might have a more complex overworld, but it sacrifices dungeons just to make the overworld more like a theme park. As a result, the surface is very unrealistic and makes no sense other then to let Link continue his journey. OoT and TP may have had simpler sections, but most of them actually served a purpose to the creatures of the game world.
-I actually forgot about the Light Tear segment of Death Mountain. I usually rushed through them to get to human Link. I hope the next Zelda stays far away from things like it. Oh, and human Link is stopped from going up the mountain at the very beggining, not halfway through.
-Yes, you pretty much have to douse to find the key pieces, unless you want to dig up every single soft spot in the earth, which would be stupid game design. No, you don't have to douse to find your way up to the top, because their is no other path you can take that would let you astray.

-Twilight Princess has 9 dungeons, but 3 of those dungeons are among the most rushed and lacking dungeons in the series. Meanwhile all 7 of Skyward Sword's dungeons are solid at their worst and among the best at their best. Also, the puzzles are very well integrated into the level/world design and the world doesn't feel as contrived as you make it out to be. It's not any more contrived than other games in the series. I'd rather spend an hour between dungeons exploring an environment that challenges me to find my way through it than spend an hour in a simple environment that does the kind of shit TP did to fill that hour.
-I meant half-way including the wolf segment.

I disagree with your premise. The lack of a tutorial isn't the lack of an introductory phase. People want to be taught, they don't want a tutorial. It's like teaching people to program by making them read a book and write out examples on paper. Why not expose your players to "real" problems?

I'll elaborate further, if you'd like, but I think its fairly self-explanatory?

Sorry, I'm posting from a phone at the moment.

A lot of people as indicated by this thread and many like it have a much broader definition of tutorial that includes what you are talking about and I'm accounting for that.

 

[lwilliams3]

The constant warping between the uneventful sky and the three ground zones did a lot to break my immersion and highlight the fact I was playing on dated hardware. Imagine if in Zelda U you could jump on a loftwing at any point and seamlessly fly into the sky to find large floating islands.

Yeah, I believe some of the design choices for SS was due to technology limitations. This is nothing new for Zelda games; Aonuma admitted that the boat in WW couldn't go too fast due to them being unable to stream the entire area at one time. In WW HD, they now keep the "entire ocean" in memory. I'm not surprised to see Aonuma taking full advantage of Wii U's relatively huge 1GB of memory for the new Zelda.

 

[ЯAW]

Did the old NES games have tutorials? We need go back to thick manuals instead of unskippable tutorials.

 

[TheGreatLugia]

Did the old NES games have tutorials? We need go back to thick manuals instead of unskippable tutorials.

What's a manual? Is that the piece of paper the Club Nintendo code comes on? Seems kind of overrated if you ask me.

 

[Earthpainting]

He's saying all the things people want to hear these days. I hope they can make it work.

Tutorials and introductions haven't been a big issue for me anyway. The only game where they were pushing it was in Twilight Princess. They meant well there, with trying to set up Link's peaceful life, but I felt like my time was being wasted a bit. I just wanted to get my tunic and get to a dungeon already after a while. Skyward Sword made me feel like I was in the meat of the game already much faster. I think this was partially due to the fact that the overworld under the clouds felt a bit like a dungeon already in its structure and design.