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[LegendofLex]

Outside of Zelda 2, uuuuuhhhh, what

It got better if anything

If by "it got better," you mean "Link is now super agile with a massive palette of attacks that let him quickly dispatch enemies/take out tons of enemies at once, while 'improvements' in enemy AI have only made them easier to predict (and easy to knock down), not to mention even more especially vulnerable to _insert primary weaknesses here_," then I guess so?

I mean, even Darknuts are now as easy as "shield bash, parry, spam, rinse, repeat." Before you had to try to get behind them without any flashy moves, which was hard as balls, or in Zelda II you had to try to get past their guard.

I prefer the whole "enemies were harder to hit/you had to master Link's limited moves to defeat most enemies" formula, personally, even if the enemy AI was mostly random. The "better" enemy AI in LttP, for example, actually winds up hurting the game for me.

SS was kind of an improvement, because you had to be precise to succeed at basic combat, but then you get enemies like the ones in Lanayru Mines which all revolve around very obvious weak spots.

 

[Litri]

If it actually happens, this could be awesome.

 

[zma1013]

A little ot but I really wish Aonuma would have just ran around the field a bit instead of showing us that boss chase scene. The visuals are fantastic but that was a lousy first trailer. SS first trailer was meh too. TP first trailer as hype as fuck.

Bring back Conan for Zelda reveals!

If I recall correctly, SS first reveal wasn't even a trailer, it was that botched on stage demo where the wiimote got confused by lights in the audience.

 

[papercan55]

They really do exaggerate how bad Fi was. Fi steps back and performs tasks similar to what Midna would do. I watched playthroughs of the game and noted every time that Fi appears in the first 3 surface areas:

For me it wasn't just about the opening tutorials it was also about the constant reminders up until the end of the game such as low battery, low health, low shield, you should use dowsing e.t.c
because you didn't play the game and only watched a playthrough on youtube it's hard to understand just how annoying that constant flashing icon and annoying sound was once your past the opening sections and far into the game, that coupled with bug and treasure text even if you've already found them before was nothing short of bad game design.
It's still a much better game than twilight princess and a wonderful game but Fi was one of the worst things i've ever encountered in an otherwise fantastic game.

 

[Ultimadrago]

Also no Fi equivalent please.

Miserable thing.

 

[Lady Gaia]

There's obviously a balance to be struck between being too hard on newcomers and painful for the experienced fan. The sooner they start thinking in terms of available tutorials and not a single level of compromise set in stone, the better.

 

[dampflokfreund]

A little ot but I really wish Aonuma would have just ran around the field a bit instead of showing us that boss chase scene. The visuals are fantastic but that was a lousy first trailer. SS first trailer was meh too. TP first trailer as hype as fuck.

Bring back Conan for Zelda reveals!

I'm sure next year we will get a epic trailer

 

[Nickle]

I have a crazy idea. Instead of having an in-game tutorial, they can write a small book with pictures and words that give instructions on how to play the game. Then, they just need to build a special flap into the game box that could hold this little book. They can also make a digital version of this book for the people who buy a digital version of the game. It will be called a "manual", named after esteemed Mexican writer Ignacio Manuel Altamirano.

 

[SCReuter]

Fishing, annoying kids, first of the long and boring twilight zones (although Wolf Link is great), cats, goat herding, cradle fetching with falcon/hawk, monkey chasing, and more crap that not only makes the tutorial ridiculous in length but ISNT USED THROUGHOUT THE REST OF THE GAME

I guess I'm confused as to what is and isn't a tutorial segment, because a lot of that just seemed like regular, varied gameplay content to me.

 

[RagnarokX]

This is a generous description. Making an input mistake (e.g. turning a one of the dials the wrong way, then exiting) as you learn how to interact with the dial is not the same as failing to figure out the puzzle, but Fi will tell you the solution either way.

Covering only the "surface" appearances also leaves out every time in Skyloft that an NPC suggests your next destination and then Fi immediately pops up to repeat more or less exactly what the NPC just said.

I was being generous mentioning it because it's optional for it to happen.

You don't have to talk to NPCs. You can just go straight to the surface. Midna also repeated NPCs.

 

[RagnarokX]

For me it wasn't just about the opening tutorials it was also about the constant reminders up until the end of the game such as low battery, low health, low shield, you should use dowsing e.t.c
because you didn't play the game and only watched a playthrough on youtube it's hard to understand just how annoying that constant flashing icon and annoying sound was once your past the opening sections and far into the game, that coupled with bug and treasure text even if you've already found them before was nothing short of bad game design.
It's still a much better game than twilight princess and a wonderful game but Fi was one of the worst things i've ever encountered in an otherwise fantastic game.

I did play the game. I used videos to gather data.

 

[Bulzeeb]

I was being generous mentioning it because it's optional for it to happen.

You don't have to talk to NPCs. You can just go straight to the surface. Midna also repeated NPCs.

true that, and regarding the current introductions of "master I think that there are 80% chances of shit happening" you could just ignore them and keep playing the game

 

[Hawaii Jeff]

Having no waggle also = instant win

 

[Hawaii Jeff]

...They can also make a digital version of this book for the people who buy a digital version of the game. It will be called a "manual", named after esteemed Mexican writer Ignacio Manuel Altamirano.

Yes it's a good thing every Wii U game has a manual, accessed by the home button.

 

[Hyperactivity]

Having no waggle also = instant win

GO Skyward Sword, you're amazing according to GAF again

 

[Vidiot]

If I recall correctly, SS first reveal wasn't even a trailer, it was that botched on stage demo where the wiimote got confused by lights in the audience.

I'm pretty sure it had a trailer before that. Showed varies things from past 3d Zeldas and Link jumped off a cliff and had a few seconds of gameplay cuts I think. It was pretty lame though.

 

[Cameron122]

I love it when you talk dirty to me eiji

 

[Easy_D]

If I recall correctly, SS first reveal wasn't even a trailer, it was that botched on stage demo where the wiimote got confused by lights in the audience.

You sure? Didn't they show that CG trailer of Link jumping off a sky island before that?

Edit: Oh yeah:

I'm pretty sure it had a trailer before that. Showed varies things from past 3d Zeldas and Link jumped off a cliff and had a few seconds of gameplay cuts I think. It was pretty lame though.

That one!

 

[OnPoint]

I know what a blue rupee does. I've been playing Zelda for over 25 years or so.

If you want to include that crap fine.

Just let me turn it off.

 

[Danneee]

Just let us disable the tutorial when we start a new game. That can't be too hard to implement now, can it?

 

[Lunar15]

I know what a blue rupee does. I've been playing Zelda for over 25 years or so.

If you want to include that crap fine.

Just let me turn it off.

This is my biggest pet peeve with the more recent games. I thought it was a bug in TP, but I was shocked to see it return in SS. I don't remember it being in ALBW, so that's a good sign.

 

[Haunted]

I wonder what the annoying Gamepad gimmick with be (and you know there will be one)? Gyro aiming?

Gyro aiming is great in Wind Waker HD, better than aiming with the stick in most cases.

 

[decoyplatypus]

I was being generous mentioning it because it's optional for it to happen.

You don't have to talk to NPCs. You can just go straight to the surface. Midna also repeated NPCs.

And it was annoying when Midna did it too.

It's nice that the player can avoid a sizable number of interactions with Fi, but isn't the more important question the number of unwanted interactions a player is likely to have on a normal playthrough?

 

[Mr. Saturn]

That TP sold worse than OoT despite releasing in 2006, on two platforms, one of which had a dramatically bigger install base and presence worldwide than N64, speaks volumes for how well TP was received (from a quality perspective) in the long-run, once the hype that we were getting a Zelda that was supposed to align with OoT fans wore off.
I

Seriously you're using sales as an indicator of quality. Yeah TP may have sold worse but the game, but it still sold 5.82 million on the wii which a good number no matter what.

As for that being proof that TP wasn't received well, I don't even understand that, obviously there are people out there who hated TP but I doubt that group is the majority, if I had to guess I'm betting that the vast majority of people who played TP enjoyed despite some of it's flaws. There are those who loved TP and thought it was excellent and those thought it was terrible and there's the vast majority of people who fall in between those two extremes, who probably thought it was great, or at least a quality game but no the best thing in the world.

Hell TP won GOTY here on GAF, and some might say, well people were caught up in hype, which I could believe, but not to the extent where every person who voted for it in GOTY would suddenly hate it, and they might point out that afterwards the game had a backlash against it, but that doesn't prove the game was received unfavorably, it just means there was a vocal minority who had serious problems with the game.

 

[BY2K]

Also no Fi equivalent please.

Miserable thing.

I have the feeling Link won't have a companion this time.

 

[udivision]

I wonder if "Babies First Zelda" should instead be a Pokemon spin off game where you play as Pikachu and rescue pokemon which you can also play as, each with their own ability which functions as a tool/weapon like Zelda's items. It would also hand hold the heck out of you. That would free up the real Zelda to be made with the mindset of "This franchise is 25 years old, and most of the players have been playing it for almost as long" mentality. Considering how consistent Zelda's sales number are, it seems like the audience is mostly the same people and the same number of people.

 

[bounchfx]

the bullshit at the beginning of SS is the reason I never played past 1-2 hours.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

I could be crazy, but I could have sworn we heard this before Skyward Sword, as well.

 

[RagnarokX]

I could be crazy, but I could have sworn we heard this before Skyward Sword, as well.

And it happened?

 

[Log4Girlz]

They should release a demo game that's nothing but tutorials.

 

[Mr. Saturn]

I could be crazy, but I could have sworn we heard this before Skyward Sword, as well.

I don't think so, what we heard regarding SS, was that they were trying to rethink the structure of Zelda games (something Aounuma admits they didn't go far enough with) and that the overworld would be more dense similar to the 2d zeldas.

From what I remember they didn't say anything about SS having less tutorials, besides there is a recent precedent for Zelda not having tutorials considering ALBW had very few of them and only came out last year.

 

[SparksterMeta0]

An option to opt-out tutorials might me nice.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I don't understand why more games don't have a tutorial playground in the options. Real fucking useful when you forget all the controls when you come back to a game like 2 years later.

 

[Chezzymann]

Fi made me hate skyward sword. It was so hard to find any satisfaction when completing puzzles when she just tells you what to do most of the time. I'm really excited for this potentially new direction, if its like A Link Between Worlds but with harder dungeons, then the game could be the perfect 3D Zelda for me.

 

[-Horizon-]

I have the feeling Link won't have a companion this time.

Something's going to be on the GamePad screen...
And it's not just a map and status screen, think Bravely Default menu

 

[ramparter]

Less?
How about no tutorial at all?

Came to post this!

 

[LegendofLex]

Seriously you're using sales as an indicator of quality.

I'm using sales as the only objective indicator of consensus. And consensus is obviously an indicator of quality, or at least the kind of quality that people are looking for.

Strong early sales indicate a consensus about quality expectations; long-tail sales indicate the long-term consensus (i.e., the reputation).

Obviously marketing and price cuts drastically obscure how we can analyze sales (short-term and long-term, respectively), but given the way Nintendo handles both, it's not really an issue when looking at their games.

Yeah TP may have sold worse but the game, but it still sold 5.82 million on the wii which a good number no matter what.

I never said it was a bad number, but it wasn't a SMG-type story where the game outsold its N64 predecessor on the back of its tremendous reputation.

I wouldn't say I disagree with anything else you said.

 

[Biker19]

Yes, thank you, Aonuma!

 

[Glorified G]

Get rid of the annoying companion and fetch quests and now you might have something here

 

[Crayolan]

Now just make it mildly difficult and this could be one of the greatest Zelda games ever.

 

[Kurt]

Next thing :

Don't included something like tears from tp or ss

 

[Prototype]

It's potentially good news. We'll see what less actually means as we get closer to release.

 

[Chaos17]

Originally Posted by Stairouais

Less?
How about no tutorial at all?

They can't do that.
They've to think about beginners.
You guys aren't the only players in the world.

 

[Starsunder]

Fi was godawful so this is good.

All I want is to be dropped in the world Zelda 1 style and told to go.

That's it.

I really want that sense of exploration and mystery back.

Make it happen, Aonuma.

 

[Haunted]

Also while we're on the topic of annoying things in Zelda games, instant text speed option and proper shop interfaces pls.

Selling bugs in Skyward Sword was the worst.

They can't do that.
They've to think about beginners.
You guys aren't the only players in the world.

Beginners should rtfm or gtfo.

Don't bog down the actual game's pacing with condescending tutorials. Not like Zelda is super complex in the first place, controls can be figured out by pressing buttons and experimenting a little bit.


Respect the player.

 

[MrSaturn99]

fi is the worst nintendo character ever created why would you ever defend her

Who thought it was a good idea to put the "no" option on top?

Seriously, lol. Except for maybe Majora's Mask I've found each of the 3D Zeldas have their own inane quirks that have me dread going back to them (not so much in the case of OOT/TWW, but stuff like the owl/Triforce Hunt get me queasy).

 

[Lunar15]

I liked how in ALTTP there were stones you could touch that would give you hints and messages from Zelda and Sahasarala, but you could avoid these if you wanted to.

Just do something like this instead of having something ping you when they want to give you a hint.

Hell, Metroid prime had a thing where you could straight up turn off your visor's hint system. Just do that.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

I think some posters in this thread are making the same mistake that people like Egoraptor make when they try to compare the complexity of a top down 2 button game with that of a fully 3D multi-button 3rd person one.
They're not the same, and one can't approach developing the two in similar ways.
You're never going to get a complex modern 3D Zelda game that just drops the player into a huge open world with no real context.
Something has got to give when they structure a game like that.

 

[Ithil]

Given how ALBW was, I believe him. That game pretty much started immediately.

 

[MrSaturn99]

The worst part of the SS tutorial is the loftwing training. That really sucked. Other than that, it's non-offensive.

Was that the part where you had to compete with Groose? I actually kinda enjoyed that.

Skyloft in general was actually kinda nice. I mean, I fucking love cats, but Twilight Princess forcing you to fish for one twice was BS.