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[Nuclear Muffin]

What makes Zelda so good is the balance it has between the various forms of gameplay people like. And the problem of asking people what they want from a Zelda game, is that they will ask for more of one thing, and less of the rest.

Types of Zelda Fans

Fighting - These fans will want more enemies, more involved fighting mechanics, and harder difficulties.

Exploring - These fansdont care so much about the enemies, but care about having as big and vast a world as possible with many hidden items, areas, and secrets

Puzzles - These fans focus mostly on the dungeons, and want puzzles and dungeon design that make you go insane at trying to figure these out

Narrative - These enjoy and expect a well crafted story with many NPCs with their own mini story Arcs or Fetch-Quests, and compelling story progression


Examples of Zelda Games

Legend of Zelda - Hyrule Fantasy NES
Fighting 35%
Exploring 40%
Puzzles 23%
Narrative 2%

A Link to the Past SNES
Fighting 25%
Exploring 25%
Puzzles 30%
Narrative 20%

Ocarina of Time N64
Fighting 27%
Exploring 22%
Puzzles 22%
Narrative 27%

Wind Waker GCN
Fighting 20%
Exploring 30%
Puzzles 20%
Narrative 30%

Twilight Princess Wii
Fighting 20%
Exploring 24%
Puzzles 24%
Narrative 32%


As you can see from those examples, there is a trend for the new games to become more balanced, but sometimes the slightest shift from one aspect to another can polarize the fan base. Majora's Mask has more of a Narrative and Exploring focus, so that upsets the fighting and puzzle fans.

Same with the Two Oracles games, Ages was about Puzzles and some exploring, and Seasons was about Fighting and some exploring, with an equal narrative between them.


As a Zelda fan, my preference for a Zelda game would be...
Fighting 10%
Exploring 33%
Puzzles 33%
Narrative 24%
This bares out with my personal order of what Zelda games I prefer, but this wont suit all.


Zelda developers should not always aim to make the most balanced game, but should tilt it around for each release, and if it pleases some, and annoys others, then take comfort that when working on the next game, you could tilt it in their favour. Its better than playing safe and trying to please everyone.

EDIT:

One thing I forgot to mention, in regard to those asking for more focus to be on the narrative and the presenting of the story. You cant have this, and want Link to be alone in his adventure. Isolation is good for a weird environment and a game like Metroid, but you cant have a good narrative if your character does not have others to play off. Link having a companion on his journey, helps to drive the character arc, development, and the story.

And to those wanting a vast Shadow of the Colossus world, will not be able to complain about a dry or slow story, or complain about an empty lifeless world.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Dude, are you serious? There's several more sidequests in TP than Ocarina of Time.

:lol Definitely not. Oh, I hope that every single, stupid -filled with only rupies- box is not actually part of your hypothetical side quest list.

 

[eXistor]

Go back to basics, scrap the story almost entirely and focus on exploration based gameplay in the overworld and puzzle based dungeons, like Zelda 1.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Not surprised to see people with zero taste in video games hating on Twilight Princess. Nobody appreciates good level design these days. If it's not a movie it's labeled boring.

Ani, you have to admit that once you finished a dungeon, you was almost forced to go to the next one. Side quests in practice disappeared after the forest temple, outside the one in the Gerudo Desert. And about the characters: they were so stupidly anonymous and forgettable.

Outside Midna, tell me which characters have left you a great impression. Then, take Majora's Mask and do the same. There is an abyss.

A Zelda cannot be only a collection of dungeons.

 

[Oblivion]

Well if it was crafted with passion they sure did a good job with stopping me from noticing, to me it looks like a rush-job though not as bad as OoT or WW (lol) in that regard.

WAT

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Wind Waker was not the better Zelda game. You want to talk about pacing? TWW collapses right before the finish line. It's worse than anything in TP. Hell, it resorts to a boss rush at the very end, which has no place in an action-adventure game. The best TWW dungeon is probably the 7th best TP dungeon. There's more actual stuff to do in TP versus TWW, and I don't mean just sidequests. TWW is a good game, but its flaws are numerous. You can tell just how rushed the game was just going by the end game.

I like the story and characters of TWW over TP too (except for Midna and early Zant), but that hardly makes up for the game's problems. You people really need to play it again.

This is true, but it does not make TP better then TWW, if not from a technical-visual standpoint.
An adventure game is not a Mario game, in which you can place always the kidnapping of the princess as main plot. In any case, who cares as long as the game design is fantastic? Nobody of course!

But Zelda is the Lord of the Rings of the videogame industry. And it has to have a decent plot that keep you playing it exactly as a book keep you awaken even if you are tired. There is actually one game that did all of that: Okami.

TP was the most polished and also most boring Zelda game...

.

 

[-WindYoshi-]

Ani, you have to admit that once you finished a dungeon, you was almost forced to go to the next one. Side quests in practice disappeared after the forest temple, outside the one in the Gerudo Desert. And about the characters: they were so stupidly anonymous and forgettable.

Outside Midna, tell me which characters have left you a great impression. Then, take Majora's Mask and do the same. There is an abyss.

A Zelda cannot be only a collection of dungeons.

Pretty much how I felt about the game... the "soulessness" was to me made by the fact that the characters and story just felt... cookie-cutter. In OOT there was meaning and a theme to the connections Link had with all the characters. In MM there were intricate stories and details to the NPCs some of which you could only ever notice by paying attention to them at the strangest hours of the day!

In TP... well, there was pretty bad character design (there WAS good in-between) attached to mostly unlikable characters that I never felt really connected with.

Overall though, it was definitely a good game... even if that opinion of mine is based mostly on the fun dungeons and the fact that I think TP has the greatest credits music of the whole series. About 7:00 in is where I really start loving it. There is certainly a lot of "soul" and/or "passion" there.

 

[NotWii]

Dude, are you serious? There's several more sidequests in TP than Ocarina of Time.

Even if that were so and I don't think it is, TP's were all lame and the only things you got for completing them were rupees and heart pieces ... except the hawkeye

Spoiler

WHICH SUCKED

.

In fact, OOT feels like it has more characters that you can actually talk to, than TP

Least OOT gave you rumble packs, beanstalks, masks, magic crystals, golden scales, a DIFFERENT SWORD and other cool stuff

 

[eXistor]

EDIT: You know what game would be good for Zelda to emulate, from an environmental perspective? Morrowind. Brighten it up a bit, [/b]flatten it down a bit[/b], and bam, awesome Hyrule.

No way, if anything make more height differences. Go play Risen for a great recent example of a fantastic, natural feeling overworld full of secrets to discover.

 

[Mgoblue201]

I agree that the atmosphere and artwork for the first two Zeldas are amazing, and I really wish that they would return to that.

Ani, you have to admit that once you finished a dungeon, you was almost forced to go to the next one. Side quests in practice disappeared after the forest temple, outside the one in the Gerudo Desert. And about the characters: they were so stupidly anonymous and forgettable.

Outside Midna, tell me which characters have left you a great impression. Then, take Majora's Mask and do the same. There is an abyss.

A Zelda cannot be only a collection of dungeons.

It depends on what you define as a sidequest. TP has the store/armor sidequest, the cave of ordeals, 50 poes, 24 bugs, and over 40 pieces of heart. OOT had the sword sidequest, the Gerudo dungeon, 10 poes, 100 skulltulas, and fewer heart pieces. So they are comparable.

I'm not sure why you're comparing TP to MM, since the point of MM is its characters. From that perspective, it's unlike any Zelda ever. I'm not going to argue, however. If people say they like Zant or Malo or Renado or whatever, then fine, but this is a videogame, and I think the writing isn't particularly good, and I'd almost rather have fewer interesting characters.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

Zelda, in my opinion, needs to take a page from Metroid, but in the sense of the feeling of isolation. You should be made to feel like you're one lone explorer venturing into the unknown and dangerous wilderness. Modern takes on Hyrule are far too populated to create this feeling. Sure, have people in the towns, but as for the rest of the world, use friendly characters as little as possible.

I don't think that a Metroid-esque Zelda would be any good. But I agree that one of the bad thing about the Link in TP, in comparison to the Link in OoT, is that he already was known, respected, skilled.
No desire to prove yourself. No challenges at all. Sometimes i really wonder who is the idiot that animated Link in such a way.

 

[AniHawk]

This is true, but it does not make TP better then TWW, if not from a technical-visual standpoint.
An adventure game is not a Mario game, in which you can place always the kidnapping of the princess as main plot. In any case, who cares as long as the game design is fantastic? Nobody of course!

But Zelda is the Lord of the Rings of the videogame industry. And it has to have a decent plot that keep you playing it exactly as a book keep you awaken even if you are tired. There is actually one game that did all of that: Okami.

Okami's plot was shit. I think most people liked it because it really interacted with Japanese lore. I found every character to be void of charm and that the only reason someone might like them was due to the reference ("Oh hey- that's that story!"). The only two characters I thought were well done in Okami were Ammy and Issun (although it took me a long time to warm up to Issun).

The only reason I kept playing Okami was to get to the really good parts: the dungeons. Nothing else in the game really compared to the creativity found there. Even though Issun would spoil many puzzles, I found it a joy to go through the dungeons, especially the final two. It was definitely not due to the story. While TP's story may have disappeared after the 3rd dungeon, Okami's went on for-fucking-ever. Of course, Okami's story isn't the main problem with the game: the pacing is, but the story plays a big part in that.

 

[AniHawk]

Ani, you have to admit that once you finished a dungeon, you was almost forced to go to the next one. Side quests in practice disappeared after the forest temple, outside the one in the Gerudo Desert. And about the characters: they were so stupidly anonymous and forgettable.

Outside Midna, tell me which characters have left you a great impression. Then, take Majora's Mask and do the same. There is an abyss.

A Zelda cannot be only a collection of dungeons.

Majora's Mask was a game where the focus was more on the 3 day time limit, which meant less of a focus on the dungeons and more of a focus on the sidequests, to really give that 3 day time limit a reason to exist. You can't compare the cast of MM to TP for the same reason you can't compare the dungeon design of MM to TP.

TWW to TP is more understandable. Tetra/Ganondorf/King were a good strong trio, and the cast of pirates was fun. TP had Midna and Zant. I liked Zant, but the music and his character design at his reveal kinda killed his character. I also liked Colin, who was a minor character, but I felt was given enough time to be likable. He even had a fear that he conquered that was reflected in the ending. Again, it's really minor, but I thought it was nice thing to include for people who paid attention.

 

[Dr. Muganda]

WAT

OoT had the by far most shitty and barren overworld of all Zelda games to date with the exception of WW. It's pretty obvious that OoT was rushed through development in the final stages.

 

[Dascu]

Quoting from the first page:

I'm going to commit the ultimate Zelda sin and say this about the 3D overworlds: the horse was never a good idea.

Yeah there you go, Epona sucks.

It seems they came up with the horse because it's an obvious fantasy world element. The hero rides a horse. Okay, fair enough.

But the horse has always handled like a brick. It was impressive for a while on the N64 because 3D graphics were still novel. The spectacle of seeing Link climb onto a horse-thing built of like ten triangles was amazing to a certain generation of kids. But even then, the horse was less fun than running around as Link himself.

In TP, the mechanical truck-like handling of the horse is god-awful. It's no fun at all and you just use the horse because running around on foot takes too long.

Hell, one reason I loved The Wind Waker is because the boat had so much more personality and charm than the horse. And it was a freakin' boat! (Okay, a talking boat possessed by the devil but that's picking nits.)

I think Aonuma's ability to create a good overworld is there. The overworld/ocean in WW is good; it's interesting. It just needed to be a little more populated. But the concept was good. The "navigation" based overworld maps in the DS games are actually fun. The train mini-game is really pretty darn good.

But the real culprit is that the only two primary 3D Zeldas set on dry land had overworlds designed around the use of the terrible horse. So they weren't trying to make them fun to navigate purely on foot. We can't rule out that Aonuma's team might be able to make a great overworld if the starting goal is to focus on Link himself.

I'm actually worried that Zelda Wii will have the damn horse because Miyamoto thinks Ocarina is the foundation for all Zelda now. I hope not.

Fully agreed. They need to get rid of Epona. It's given them an excuse to have a sloppy dull overworld. I don't care if riding on the big empty fields is supposed to look epic, it's simply not engaging in any way.

 

[Night_Trekker]

That art screams adventure. Discovery. Tenacity in the face of danger.

Zelda, in my opinion, needs to take a page from Metroid, but in the sense of the feeling of isolation. You should be made to feel like you're one lone explorer venturing into the unknown and dangerous wilderness. Modern takes on Hyrule are far too populated to create this feeling. Sure, have people in the towns, but as for the rest of the world, use friendly characters as little as possible.

This would be a drastic and welcome change of pace for the series, even if it were only for a single game. Return to the mold of the first game but in 3D, and really play up the epic nature of it all.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Personally, I think Zelda, along with Smash Bros. and Pokémon, need the kind of kick in the butt that Mario got. TP was great, but the overworld and Wolf Link form left me wanting.

 

[protonion]

The problem I have with post OOT zeldas is pacing. Especially in TP it was like the game hurried to get you to the next dungeon as soon as possible.

In OOT when you finally open the gate to death mountain (after lost woods exploring/graveyard/kakariko/castle/ranch with tons of stuff to do in each area),
the guards ask you if you want to get him a mask from a shop in the main town nearby. I loved that moment. I didn't mind doing this for him which opened a whole new sidequest. Then after this you had the goron village. When you finally stepped in the second dungeon of the game it felt like it had been an eternity since you entered the first. And this goes on for the rest of the game.

It was like every sinlge part of the advenure was carefully crafted. Plus the size of the maps was perfect. They never get tedious, yet the were satisfyingly big to give the sense of an epic adventure.

Also it's best written zelda imo.

 

[Dr. Muganda]

Also it's best written zelda imo.

Strongly disagree.
It started the whole timetravel clusterfuck storyline, also it introduced zelda to all those silly, pointless fantasy races like the gorons or zora (yeah I know they're in zelda since number one) that only feel tacked on and cheesy.

 

[NotWii]

The problem I have with post OOT zeldas is pacing. Especially in TP it was like the game hurried to get you to the next dungeon as soon as possible.

In OOT when you finally open the gate to death mountain (after lost woods exploring/graveyard/kakariko/castle/ranch with tons of stuff to do in each area),
the guards ask you if you want to get him a mask from a shop in the main town nearby. I loved that moment. I didn't mind doing this for him which opened a whole new sidequest. Then after this you had the goron village. When you finally stepped in the second dungeon of the game it felt like it had been an eternity since you entered the first. And this goes on for the rest of the game.

It was like every sinlge part of the advenure was carefully crafted. Plus the size of the maps was perfect. They never get tedious, yet the were satisfyingly big to give the sense of an epic adventure.

Also it's best written zelda imo.

Totally agree

 

[NotWii]

Strongly disagree.
It started the whole timetravel clusterfuck storyline, also it introduced zelda to all those silly, pointless fantasy races like the gorons or zora (yeah I know they're in zelda since number one) that only feel tacked on and cheesy.

I thought it was pretty damn simple :lol
Also provided a fun game mechanic where certain actions done in the past alter the future and there was a lot of character progression because of the 7 year gap.
It was interesting to go back to all the areas and see what has changed and why/how.
For that reason I liked OOT's overworld even though Hyrule Field was totally empty.

MM's characters were the best though

 

[Always-honest]

Quoting from the first page:


Fully agreed. They need to get rid of Epona. It's given them an excuse to have a sloppy dull overworld. I don't care if riding on the big empty fields is supposed to look epic, it's simply not engaging in any way.

disagree. i like the horseriding. it needs better controls and handling, yes.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

I agree that the atmosphere and artwork for the first two Zeldas are amazing, and I really wish that they would return to that.


It depends on what you define as a sidequest. TP has the store/armor sidequest, the cave of ordeals, 50 poes, 24 bugs, and over 40 pieces of heart. OOT had the sword sidequest, the Gerudo dungeon, 10 poes, 100 skulltulas, and fewer heart pieces. So they are comparable.

Sorry, but that's so wrong.

Recall both games for a moment and remember: in Kakariko's village of OoT, you had the chickens to collect, the song in the windmill, the mask of the guard, the song in the cemetery, Igor's excursion, the secret salesman, Talon outside the ranch. And of course the well, the hookshot and the expansion of the quiver. And I'm sure I'm missing things, because everything was doubled (but not in a cheap way) when Link grew up.

In Kakariko's village of TP, you had...what? The store-sidequest and...? Outside the bombs to buy, the bugs to collect (but that was part of the main-quest actually).

Then, to the Death mountain: in OoT you had the shop of medigoron, the rotating vessel, the door the lost woods, the Goron's bracelet small quest that implied Saria's song, the crater to explore, the fairy at the top of the mountain.

In TP? The only interesting thing was the quest to obtain the iron's boots, which implied the sumo wrestling match. This was not bad at all. But it was the only thing.

To Zora's domaine: in OoT, we had the side-quest important to obtain the Silver scale, the research of the disappeared Ruto, the quarter of heart behind the waterfall. Then, Link could obtain the wind of Farore and go the Hylia's lake which had not only the message of Ruto, but also the fishing game and the scarecrows, which were important for solving puzzles later.

In TP: the Zora's river game, the fishing game and...?

Anyway, let me say that the early stages of the game, let's say until the Arbiter's grounds (which was a fabulous dungeon) was more or less acceptably filled with side-quests, even if OoT had more, but mostly better cohesive side-quests, which filled intelligently the game and not in a cheap way as TP did. The reward system in TP was also particularly broken due to the damned rupies. Too many and too useless.

The problem I have with post OOT zeldas is pacing. Especially in TP it was like the game hurried to get you to the next dungeon as soon as possible.

In OOT when you finally open the gate to death mountain (after lost woods exploring/graveyard/kakariko/castle/ranch with tons of stuff to do in each area),
the guards ask you if you want to get him a mask from a shop in the main town nearby. I loved that moment. I didn't mind doing this for him which opened a whole new sidequest. Then after this you had the goron village. When you finally stepped in the second dungeon of the game it felt like it had been an eternity since you entered the first. And this goes on for the rest of the game.

It was like every sinlge part of the advenure was carefully crafted. Plus the size of the maps was perfect. They never get tedious, yet the were satisfyingly big to give the sense of an epic adventure.

Also it's best written zelda imo.

True. This is exactly what I meant.

 

[Jay Sosa]

Like I said many times my problem with the sidequests in Zelda is that the rewards are so fucking ridiculous, only thing you get are pointless Rupees or Bottles. In MM you atleast got masks that were useful for something. Same with the secret "dungeons", you have to fight all these hordes of enemies (especially in WW) after you're done you're really proud of yourself an what do you get *tada* a fucking silver rupee.. Really Nintendo, really?

I'm good with heart pieces and additional arrows and bombs(cause they're useful but you don't have to get'em if you don't want to) but get the fuck outta here with this fuckin rupees!

 

[jdogmoney]

You...you called bottles useless.

 

[NotWii]

Next Zelda game better have a Boss Battle mode and Cinema feature

If I have a save file at Ganon's Castle, I'm not going to start a new file to fight Morpheel again or replay the horseback battle inbetween dungeon 1 and 2 >:/

And what if I wanted to rewatch that creepy dark link cut scene?

 

[Jay Sosa]

You...you called bottles useless.

Goddamn, I wanted to edit that they're not. My rant was only directed at these f'in rupees. Damn I hate those things.

 

[magicalsoundshower]

I too felt that the overworld in the 3D Zeldas never felt as engaging as in the 2D ones and wonder if it had to do with technical limitations. In the early 2D Zelda games, there was tons of enemies to fight and a ton of caves and secrets instead of just the occasional warp hole in the floor. This was obviously hard to pull off on the N64 where a ton of Octorocks around you would probably have slowed down the game to a crawl. I actually liked what Wind Waker tried to do, by the way, if there were a few more islands, TWW's overworld might have been pretty cool. TP's overworld indeed felt like an improvement over OoT's efforts, but I got the feeling it didn't improve what it did enough. Perhaps they will pull it off this time with enough development time and the Wii's added horsepower.

 

[Mgoblue201]

Sorry, but that's so wrong.

Recall both games for a moment and remember: in Kakariko's village of OoT, you had the chickens to collect, the song in the windmill, the mask of the guard, the song in the cemetery, Igor's excursion, the secret salesman, Talon outside the ranch. And of course the well, the hookshot and the expansion of the quiver. And I'm sure I'm missing things, because everything was doubled (but not in a cheap way) when Link grew up.

In Kakariko's village of TP, you had...what? The store-sidequest and...? Outside the bombs to buy, the bugs to collect (but that was part of the main-quest actually).

Then, to the Death mountain: in OoT you had the shop of medigoron, the rotating vessel, the door the lost woods, the Goron's bracelet small quest that implied Saria's song, the crater to explore, the fairy at the top of the mountain.

In TP? The only interesting thing was the quest to obtain the iron's boots, which implied the sumo wrestling match. This was not bad at all. But it was the only thing.

To Zora's domaine: in OoT, we had the side-quest important to obtain the Silver scale, the research of the disappeared Ruto, the quarter of heart behind the waterfall. Then, Link could obtain the wind of Farore and go the Hylia's lake which had not only the message of Ruto, but also the fishing game and the scarecrows, which were important for solving puzzles later.

In TP: the Zora's river game, the fishing game and...?

Anyway, let me say that the early stages of the game, let's say until the Arbiter's grounds (which was a fabulous dungeon) was more or less acceptably filled with side-quests, even if OoT had more, but mostly better cohesive side-quests, which filled intelligently the game and not in a cheap way as TP did. The reward system in TP was also particularly broken due to the damned rupies. Too many and too useless.

Wait a minute, most of those things you had to do for the main quest (and betrays a double standard when you fault TP for the same thing). In Kakariko, you listed the hookshot, the well, and the song of storms. In TP, I could list sumo wrestling for the iron boots or the quest for the Zora armor or the horse call. You could list Igor's game, but I could also list the sled racing in TP. You can list upgrades, but in TP I can also list games you play for upgrades. We could keep going tit for tat. Everything OOT has, TP has something similar.

You're simply listing anything that's outside of a dungeon, but are you really going to claim that TP didn't have enough content? TP had just as much, if not more, than OOT. It's just that a lot of it was manifest in completing dynamic objectives. You're just gaming your own definition so that you can make OOT out to have more stuff, especially when in TP the content is spread out in a totally different way and is thus resistant to straight comparisons between towns and areas. For instance, a lot of the stuff in TP is actually contained in places that didn't exist in OOT or in Hyrule Field. In OOT, there is almost nothing in Hyrule Field besides the poes, a few skulltullas, and a heart piece or two. But if you take the games in their totalities, then TP stacks up favorably.

 

[GCX]

And what if I wanted to rewatch that creepy dark link cut scene?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYyh8zi3aI&feature=related

Ah, the marvels of modern technology.

 

[NotWii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYyh8zi3aI&feature=related

Ah, the marvels of modern technology.

You know what I mean >:|

 

[zoukka]

I just don't see the specs on the wii as being capable of telling a grand vision. Before I get hammered for it but the franchise is so big it calls out for prettier/grander visuals/better graphics/AI..etc. Its a real shame - see also MP3 - honestly, if MP3 was next gen, it would have been killer.

Oh jesus christ you HD fanboys. You can have grand scale on Wii. I mean for fucks sake SotC is still the "grandest, most epic" game out there and it's on the freaking PS2. Remember that game Wind Waker? It had pretty fucking big enviroments and epic moments. Your MP3 babble is also really retarded. The game is one of the most beautiful out there. Competes toe to toe with all the AAArgh shooters on XO and PS3.

Now I hate the Wii's lack of games (tm) as much as any reasonable man, but goddamn some of you dimwits.



About TP: It was somehow worse than it's separate parts. It's hard to say why I didn't like it as much as Wind Waker. Maybe it's because everything was too LotR-esque or something? I don't really appreciate realism in Zelda games. Also it didn't have too many original ideas and the wolf idea didn't live up to its potential.

Some magical moments were present though, like meeting the Yeti. It was pretty fucking mysterious and beautiful.

 

[jax (old)]

Oh jesus christ you HD fanboys. You can have grand scale on Wii. I mean for fucks sake SotC is still the "grandest, most epic" game out there and it's on the freaking PS2. Remember that game Wind Waker? It had pretty fucking big enviroments and epic moments. Your MP3 babble is also really retarded. The game is one of the most beautiful out there. Competes toe to toe with all the AAArgh shooters on XO and PS3.

Now I hate the Wii's lack of games (tm) as much as any reasonable man, but goddamn some of you dimwits.



About TP: It was somehow worse than it's separate parts. It's hard to say why I didn't like it as much as Wind Waker. Maybe it's because everything was too LotR-esque or something? I don't really appreciate realism in Zelda games. Also it didn't have too many original ideas and the wolf idea didn't live up to its potential.

Some magical moments were present though, like meeting the Yeti. It was pretty fucking mysterious and beautiful.

SOTC is... eh. The world is dead and boring and the horse controls poorly. It also has NO citizenry. Very different games. What zelda ought to be is quite different.

also MP3 in say an engine UE3 would have been insanely gorgeous. Admit it.


its not about HD gaming. Its about better VFX/shaders..etc. Also about the no. of polys the console can throw out. Well, I think most games should look HD console good in 2010.

/shrug.

 

[jay]

SOTC is... eh. The world is dead and boring and the horse controls poorly. It also has NO citizenry. Very different games. What zelda ought to be is quite different.

also MP3 in say an engine UE3 would have been insanely gorgeous. Admit it.


its not about HD gaming. Its about better VFX/shaders..etc. Also about the no. of polys the console can throw out. Well, I think most games should look HD console good in 2010.

/shrug.

Just say that in five years everything you find epic today you will think looks like shit so we can realize it's not worth the effort discussing this with you.

 

[zigg]

Sorta like the sidequests in Majora's Mask but with rewarding mini-dungeons that are unlocked so you can claim your reward rather than getting the reward instantly?

Just to be totally clear, this was a continuation of the Spirit Tracks joke early in this thread. In ST, sidequests open up more tracks, which—particularly in the last few—give access to several entirely new stations with mini-dungeons therein.

Similarly,

Yep, IT IS TIME FOR ZELDA TO BE A PLAYABLE CHARACTER already.

Are you in on the joke? The Zelda/Phantom deal was fantastic in Spirit Tracks.

The endless rupee supply seems to be a constant in almost every game in the Zelda series... it's just how they do things or something.

Phantom Hourglass was beautifully balanced in this regard, and Spirit Tracks, for a good chunk of the game, made me feel like I didn't have enough. (Though if I wasn't interested in train-part collecting, I could have sold off treasures to make it a non-issue.)

 

[zoukka]

SOTC is... eh. The world is dead and boring and the horse controls poorly. It also has NO citizenry. Very different games. What zelda ought to be is quite different.

also MP3 in say an engine UE3 would have been insanely gorgeous. Admit it.


its not about HD gaming. Its about better VFX/shaders..etc. Also about the no. of polys the console can throw out. Well, I think most games should look HD console good in 2010.

/shrug.

Yeah wow the gamers of today. VFX/Shaders uh huh and Metroid Prime in Unreal engine... I mean if we humans are always reborn after we die, then you must've been some aggressor in the past burning down art museums and libraries

 

[Diffense]

When people are talking about the emptiness of 3D zelda overworlds they seem to be forgetting about Majora's Mask.
The overworld design was rather simple but the sense of being in a living, breathing world was very strong.

Each section was very distinctive and functioned as the residence for a tribe as well as a significant impediment to even accessing the area's dungeon.
Before I played it, I remembered thinking that having a mere four dungeons would ruin it but that was not true at all due to the vibrancy of the overworld.
WW represented a missed opportunity since the sea had too few places of interest whereas it could have been packed with sizeable islands both deserted and populated.

TP was a great game and the only thing I can really fault it for was feeling more like a game than the previous 3D Zeldas did.
The other Zeldas, to a greater or lesser extent, presented a world that seemed to exist whether or not you were playing the game.
You could decide you didn't want to save the world and waste your time stumbling into many scenarios (especially in MM).
However, I knew TP wanted me to get to that last dungeon and finish it as there was very little else to do in the overworld.

I'm just really hoping that the right things they have done with Zelda over the past decade can converge in the new game with surprises thrown in for good measure.
I'm picking it up anyway.

 

[Hamfam]

My interpretation is this: Making realistic Zelda takes too much effort, let's use Cell shaded Zelda again! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[GeneralIroh]

Despite TP's problems it remains superior to the mess that was TWW.

I think he missed on achieving a believable living overworld. If TP had the same amount of npc interactions as MM then it would have been much better.

 

[upandaway]

While in Zelda 3 it was basically it's own huge dungeon

People keep saying this and I never agree. What huge dungeon? You go into a labyrinth, you come out one heart stronger and with one more item, and your reward is the exploration of an OVERWORLD. Not another "huge dungeon" like the one you just finished. An overworld is an overworld. It is a maze where there is one correct way (that splits and rejoins in certain places), and a bunch of dead ends. What's unique to the exploration concept is that the dead ends have rewards, and you are encouraged to take them instead of the correct way.
The dungeon is the opposite of that, where you are only rewarded for finding the right path, and your only reward for getting to the end is the many dead ends that opened in the overworld.

Phantom Hourglass was beautifully balanced in this regard, and Spirit Tracks, for a good chunk of the game, made me feel like I didn't have enough. (Though if I wasn't interested in train-part collecting, I could have sold off treasures to make it a non-issue.)

If you acknowledge that solution in ST, why do you say PH was good with rupees? Half-way in, I had 9999 rupees and any and all money happenings were negligible. All because of the treasures.

 

[Bel Marduk]

I hope Zelda Wii goes back to having a sense of danger that wasn't really that present in TP.

In MM you have the 3 day thing going and there's limited time so you have to do whatever you want fast or the moon falls. With the slower time thing in no way does the game have you rush, but there was that looming danger and the fact that you may not be completely done with a dungeon until the last few minutes before the moon falls.

In TWW it had enemies done well and really varied. In the ocean you always had sharks following you and in multiple islands there were those huge blowfish things that can make you fall off the boat and mess you up. IMO there was that danger sense again and then you can't swim for an infinite time. I thought dungeons were done well too and were creepy. TP only did this in the Twilight Palace.

Please go back to that.

 

[AzureNightmare]

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

And I was shocked to find so many people on Zelda U who saw the Indy+BTTF references. I really liked how they peppered in the Indy references inside the temples.

The refrences were in the dialogs? Im playing the spanish version so maybe they have changed the text a little bit. I know that when the train passes the teleporters there is a BttF3 reference with the train dissapearing and you can see the light of the wheels still going through the tracks, but I dont remember the Indy references at the dungeons (the rock balls and the snake item?)
Could you tell me the references you found in the game because im a sucker for those things.

 

[oracrest]

Just give me an adventure into the unknown.

 

[zigg]

If you acknowledge that solution in ST, why do you say PH was good with rupees? Half-way in, I had 9999 rupees and any and all money happenings were negligible. All because of the treasures.

Maybe because I only maxed out my wallet once, in my recollection? I didn't tend to sell most of the treasures, holding on to them instead for online trades for people who could get more money for them.

It was two years ago, perhaps my memory's fuzzier than I thought. But I do recall feeling like the main game balanced out pretty well.

My interpretation is this: Making realistic Zelda takes too much effort, let's use Cell shaded Zelda again! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

That has got to be one of the most idiotic things I've heard in one of these threads in a long time. And it's not like the bar is set particularly high.

 

[gamergirly]

What makes Zelda so good is the balance it has between the various forms of gameplay people like. And the problem of asking people what they want from a Zelda game, is that they will ask for more of one thing, and less of the rest.

Types of Zelda Fans

Fighting - These fans will want more enemies, more involved fighting mechanics, and harder difficulties.

Exploring - These fansdont care so much about the enemies, but care about having as big and vast a world as possible with many hidden items, areas, and secrets

Puzzles - These fans focus mostly on the dungeons, and want puzzles and dungeon design that make you go insane at trying to figure these out

Narrative - These enjoy and expect a well crafted story with many NPCs with their own mini story Arcs or Fetch-Quests, and compelling story progression

We have "fighting" Zelda fans? :lol

I dont think there's a type. Fighting, Exploration, Puzzles, and Narration are all essential elements of a Zelda game. Too much emphasis on one or the other will have you taking the LOZ off

 

[zigg]

We have "fighting" Zelda fans? :lol

Hey, someone had to have appreciated trying to take down framerate-killing rooms full of blue Darknuts in LoZ.

 

[upandaway]

We have "fighting" Zelda fans? :lol

I dont think there's a type. Fighting, Exploration, Puzzles, and Narration are all essential elements of a Zelda game. Too much emphasis on one or the other will have you taking the LOZ off

Here's the funny thing, "too much" changes between every person.

I strongly disagree with the dude saying TP had 20% fighting and 20% something puzzles, because it was more like 10% fighting and 50% puzzles. Similarly the original Zelda was more like 50% fighting and 10% puzzles.
PH was practically BUILT on puzzles (and being told the answer before seeing them). Something crazy like 70%. It's silly putting it into percentages but if that's how I can post about it, that's how it is.

 

[Why would you do that?]

Hey, someone had to have appreciated trying to take down framerate-killing rooms full of blue Darknuts in LoZ.

BAD memories right there.

That aside, I really like the fighting in almost all Zelda games, especially in the 3D games and when it comes to bosses.

 

[Jason's Ultimatum]

Were you part of the development team or something? I mean who else would know if it was actually crafted with passion or not but someone from the team?

Eh. He's right, although may be going over a bit with the passion talk:

The overworld was like a giant dungeon itself. Imporant items to progress were found in the overworld. There were so many caves and holes Link had to go through to find his way to the next item. It was like a maze, and sometimes I had a hard time trying to figure out where to go next and which cave to go into.

This is why LTTP is bar none the best game in the series when it comes to overworld.