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[Gavin Stevens]

So, a few weeks back, we ran into a snag. Every few hours, our house would just "turn off", like my wife if I were to show her a picture of Trump. But ONLY the electrical sockets.

This is great fun. Have you tried trouble shooting this? Its brilliant. It involves guessing. All. The. Time.

So, my wife's father used to be an electrician, and the advice we had was:

- Check for lose connections
- Open every socket and check for lose wiring.
- Open every plug possible and check for lose wiring.
- Unplug certain things, and see if it trips.

All this before we do the big guns, like replace the main RCB, or re-wire the whole house.

Anyway, you would think this would be a simple test, right? I mean, unplug the washer, and if it trips, hey, its not the washer. Good stuff.

But this is 2018, and we have about 17 and a half million plugs, including things like fridges and tropical fish tanks, that we can't just "turn off". Even worse, the wifi. Bugger me, have you tried living with a woman with no wifi? I would be put away within a few hours...

So the last few weeks have been a process of unplug that, wait for a day or two, and plug back in... Over... and over... and over...

And guess what? Still no fucking clue.

I *think* its my dish washer. Because that's the only thing on two weekends that wasn't in, when it didn't trip. So now that's out, while we wait for a trip... But there can be DAYS in-between trips.

We also thought it was the fish tank...

And the PS4...

And the xbox X...

And the PC...

And... FUCK IT...

Its like find a needle in a haystack. But the hay stack keeps moving. And you have no hands. And your balls are in toffee. And the ants are out. Because its summer.

Has anybody else had the pure utter bloody joy of trying to tackle electrical faults like this? Oh, its just marvellous!

 

[llien]

Well, once upon a time I wanted to bake something... small. "Why bother the big bad oven" I thought, "isn't my microwave oven also capable of it? Isn't it 3 or 4 or even 5 in 1?" 10 seconds into the good idea, the microwave realized it didn't like new ways and sabotaged my brilliant environmental friendly idea. Lights in the kitchen went off.

Which brings me to a point: why is it entire house in your case? Isn't the wiring system nuanced enough to give you better clues on where to search for electric malfunctions?

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Well, the way it works is simple. It goes appliance > socket > ring main > RCB.

The problem, we assume, is an appliance. Something that is tripping the circuit. We believe it to be this based solely on the fact that it only trips every X hours, at random, and that it only trips the sockets, and not the lights, kitchen, heating etc.

But that doesn't narrow it down any more than saying I don't need to find a German in the world, but a German in Germany lol.

Its REALLY odd that it doesn't trip right away, and waits hours, sometimes days. Its even more odd that the days where it doesn't trip have every time been weekends. But everything we have that runs on a schedule in the house, like the heating, or even WiFi updates, all run through the weekend too.

Its a mystery.

 

[TheShadowLord]

have you tried calling an electrician?

 

[Gavin Stevens]

have you tried calling an electrician?

"my wife's father used to be an electrician", and a damn good one at that. He's already said until we try the "basics", we can't move onto more extreme measures. But he will be checking for earth leakage this weekend.

 

[llien]

We believe it to be this based solely on the fact that it only trips every X hours, at random, and that it only trips the sockets, and not the lights, kitchen, heating etc.

I didn't realize what "only electrical socket" meant.

First suspects are places with high humidity, which you should have given the "tropical fish tanks".

 

[rbanke]

Is it your main breaker or one of the circuits? They break because of too high of load (typically), if it's a branch thats breaking, you should start looking at the load on that branch, eliminating devices that might be causing a short, pulling outlets & switches to see if you have a loose wire. If the main is breaking but none of the branches are, it could be because the total load is too high.

 

[synchronicity]

I've never had to deal with anything like that, but it definitely sounds like a tedious nightmare. I can't offer any advice, unfortunately, other than keep the wifi on.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Like I mentioned, we are removing appliances and seeing if it has any impact on anything, and so far nothing has really "changed". We have ideas, but nothing serious. The load I don't think is too high, as nothing has changed in terms of whats been added in a long time. Hell, since this happened I actually went back and removed a load of stuff that was plugged in and never even used. Still... No dice. The idea is that it may be the fish tank yeah, or maybe even the garage, as the plugs in there are awful (that's being disconnected the weekend).

 

[rbanke]

Like I mentioned, we are removing appliances and seeing if it has any impact on anything, and so far nothing has really "changed". We have ideas, but nothing serious. The load I don't think is too high, as nothing has changed in terms of whats been added in a long time. Hell, since this happened I actually went back and removed a load of stuff that was plugged in and never even used. Still... No dice. The idea is that it may be the fish tank yeah, or maybe even the garage, as the plugs in there are awful (that's being disconnected the weekend).

you still didn't say which breaker is tripping

 

[GrizzleBoy]

you still didn't say which breaker is tripping

The fact that only the socket circuit is tripping and not the light, kitchen etc would mean it can’t be the main breaker as that would remove all power to the premesis under fault.

Unless he has two fuse boards, which I doubt.

Just (“just” he says) get your father in law to do insulation resistance tests to find out if there’s is leakage potential between conductors on the circuit.

If the insulation resistances is good, ruling out damaged cables or fixings, then your culprit is a faulty appliance. Get to unplugging.

If it’s poor, then you’ll need to cut the circuit in half and find out where the “bad leg” begins and fault find from there. Aka, hire an electrician.

 

[BANGS]

Every few hours, our house would just "turn off", like my wife if I were to show her a picture of Trump.

She's lying to you...

 

[BadHand]

Are you running space heaters over the winter?

 

[iamblades]

Well, the way it works is simple. It goes appliance > socket > ring main > RCB.

The problem, we assume, is an appliance. Something that is tripping the circuit. We believe it to be this based solely on the fact that it only trips every X hours, at random, and that it only trips the sockets, and not the lights, kitchen, heating etc.

But that doesn't narrow it down any more than saying I don't need to find a German in the world, but a German in Germany lol.

Its REALLY odd that it doesn't trip right away, and waits hours, sometimes days. Its even more odd that the days where it doesn't trip have every time been weekends. But everything we have that runs on a schedule in the house, like the heating, or even WiFi updates, all run through the weekend too.

Its a mystery.

Ugh, This situation is precisely why ring circuits are completely moronical. Radial circuits make it completely obvious where the issue is occurring.

Given what you say you are running, you may just be out of amperage on that circuit(which is a good thing cause it means nothing is broken, but a bad thing in that the only way to fix it is to add in a whole new circuit), some tropical tanks and a dishwasher and a microwave or something can add up quickly.

That's easy to test though, just need to put an ammeter on the circuit and turn things on one by one.

This also explains the intermittent nature of the issues, it will only happen when all of the devices sync up in just the right way, ie. you may even have enough amperage to run all the devices nominally, but the inrush current on startup causes the breaker to trip.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

I always thought each breaker feeds x amount of sockets per room. So breaker 1 feeds the sockets in the living room, etc.

I'm confused by ALL the sockets turning off. So all the breakers are tripping at once?

 

[iamblades]

I always thought each breaker feeds x amount of sockets per room. So breaker 1 feeds the sockets in the living room, etc.

I'm confused by ALL the sockets turning off. So all the breakers are tripping at once?

The UK uses ring circuits, not radial circuits, so basically everything is on one big circuit with one breaker(barring high amperage devices like stoves or dryers, and larger houses that need more circuits). Each device has it's own individual fuse located in the plug:

AFAIK they are the only place on the planet that uses this system commonly.

Compare standard UK distribution panels vs American ones:

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Ok, thanks.

Yeah, that looks like a massive pain in the ass for troubleshooting.

 

[NickFire]

I've done some minor electrical things at home but am far from an expert. I would suggest asking the electrical company to check things on their end. A couple months ago half my house had power, part had none, and part had like 1/2 power (lights go on, but only dimly). I was freaking out and checking all outlets in case something was plugged in that could have fried at the outlet, and when I went outside my neighbor asked if I was having problems too. Other neighbors heard us talking to each and also came out, cause a couple had similar issues. Someone spoke to an electrician, who explained there are three main lines that connect at the junction boxes and sometimes one goes bad and causes partial power outage. Electrical company came, replaced a box, and every neighbor having issues, myself included had full power restored.

 

[Gavin Stevens]

Hey all, thanks for the posts and tips, appreciate it.

So a little update... I’ve had the dish washer and washing machine unplugged for a few days which are plugged into the same socket that the garage comes from.

So, so far, it’s not tripped. This is the third time it’s not tripped with these unplugged.

It’s looking highly likely, that the issue is either:

A) the dish washer
B) the washing machine
C) the plug that houses both of these
D) the garage in some form (either the wiring to the garage, one of the sockets, the fuse box).

Now the good news is... the dish washer has been washing dishes like a knife armless wife on the blob. The washing machine is over due an upgrade. And the garage, well... we were ripping it all out and replastering to make a gym in the summer.

So if it really is one of these things then... that’s fine.

The trouble now is that we have to play the waiting game a bit longer, then plug them in one by one until it shits itself.

It’s so bloody tedious. Lost so much work on OverDose because I’ve been knee deep in it then... booooommmmmm...

Thanks everybody, brilliant posts.

 

[deafmedal]

Wow, that ring system looks fucked. I was an electrician for 20+ years- 10 or so as a service electrician so plenty of troubleshooting experience... that sounds like a nightmare. Branch circuiting ftw

 

[SatansReverence]

If you have main fuses for separate sections of the house, start with them. Easier way to narrow it down.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

A ring main is no different than a radial circuit. It’s still all parallel wiring the same. Only with a ring main your loop impedance will be the same at any point in the circuit.

It’s pretty hard to overload a 32A breaker in a regular house worth of appliances. So most likely you have some earth leakage on something (dish washer is a good candidate). Or a dodgy MCB / RCD.