DoktorEvil
Banned
Its weird how much sway an entire Internet community has on Reddit's investment/operations, considering they mainly do not financially benefit from it's existence/use.
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Ellen Pao didn't even fire Victoria Taylor
- Thread starter Brakke
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Its weird how much sway an entire Internet community has on Reddit's investment/operations, considering they mainly do not financially benefit from it's existence/use.
While I know there were a lot of angry posts against Pao, my understanding was that her "resignation" was probably more related to the subreddit blackout? And while that was precipitated by Victoria's firing, I had the impression that there was more to it that got the mods angry? Stuff about lack of tools and whatnot?
I dunno, it just feels like the user outrage that made headlines (or at least the front page of /r/all) was probably pretty minor. I'd be really curious to know what's actually going on behind the scenes, why people were fired and what people were demanding and such, but I doubt we'll ever get any real info on that.
I dunno, it just feels like the user outrage that made headlines (or at least the front page of /r/all) was probably pretty minor. I'd be really curious to know what's actually going on behind the scenes, why people were fired and what people were demanding and such, but I doubt we'll ever get any real info on that.
PeskyToaster
Member
I remember when reddit found the boston bomber. those were the glory days.
chaobreaker
Member
A reminder that this was the front page of reddit for a couple of days last month if you were not logged on or clicked /r/all.
Yishan Wong has shut down worse subs during his tenure as CEO and dealt with less harassment than what Ellen Pao had.
Yishan Wong has shut down worse subs during his tenure as CEO and dealt with less harassment than what Ellen Pao had.
stufte
Member
Much in the same way that NeoGAF did... I remember that thread well.
Hari Seldon
Member
Actually i think the opposite. The internet is what it is, and corporations that try to tame it are doomed to fail.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
In that case the government needs to step in. I believe that South Korea had the right idea in mind with its internet system.
DoktorEvil
Banned
Man, what the fuck with the Redditors that were posting these things? Any repercussions?
chaobreaker
Member
Bruised butts.
But seriously, nothing. Most of these users still lurk reddit, just without their precious fatpeoplehate subs.
Netherscourge
Banned
Oh, the reactionary reddit trolls who blamed Pao for everything...
She's an easy target though.
You know - a brilliant, successful, outspoken woman in the tech industry.
She's an easy target though.
You know - a brilliant, successful, outspoken woman in the tech industry.
Angelus Errare
Banned
I really wish I could find that article that talks about how many companies put women and minorites in CEO positions on purpose. It seems so apt here.
People giving them upvotes.
People giving them upvotes.
It was almost certainly related to the subreddit blackout and her problematic handling of it. She also did get completely thrown under the bus by Alexis, who initiated the whole thing, fanned the flames, and didn't take responsibility until after he had helped can her.
Source? Pic doesn't look legit at all. Everything is a couple hours old and few comments and the tabs across the top are missing.
Now calling for government regulation of the internet? Jesus christ why.
DoktorEvil
Banned
If true, then the owners set her up to fail so that they could regain direct control of the company. But why not just assume role as CEO?
As someone who browses /r/All every once and a while, I can confirm that this (and worse) was the state of Reddit for a couple of days. It was awful.
Nah free speech etc etc.
chaobreaker
Member
That is a screenshot of the website on the 10th of June a couple of hours after they banned /r/fatpeoplehate and a bunch of other hate subs that broke the rules
Hari Seldon
Member
Step in and do what and why?
The people that create and post content are pretty much vital to their survival, as is the volunteer moderation staff (who are essentially free slave labor doing the moderation jobs in subreddits that would be impossible to finance.)
A Reddit with no content and no one to keep the peace + keep the spam out of subreddits would be effectively dead. This is why a lot of people think the plan to monetize Reddit is doomed if it isn't fairly brilliant, they have to keep the community placated enough that they won't all jump ship to somewhere else that doesn't (yet) care about monetization. It's the classic Web 2.0 problem made a hundred times worse.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
And the current free-for-all is better? If Twitter, Reddit, and other big websites had a registration system that was tied to your real identity (only visible to site administrators and the authorities with a court order) and not just some nebulous IP address and email do you think people who harass and threaten would be able to get away with it?
Having a world without consequence is bad.
stufte
Member
People post horrid shit in facebook enabled comments sections all the time under their real names. An internet lacking anonymity isn't suddenly a magically better place.
T
thepotatoman
Unconfirmed Member
Did you miss those two days of FPH revolting? That definitely happened.
I don't know how you can source it, but you can search for all of those posts individually and see their karma in the 2000s and up. Like the fat ham one.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Then enforcement needs to step up. I'm not talking about general racist/homophobic/misogynistic shit. I'm talking about targeted harassment, death/rape threats, etc. That is rarely punished.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
That would involve a level of foreplanning I'm not sure is going on over at Reddit right now
That's what the FPH and other subreddit bans were about. It exposed that they didn't have any way to handle mass trolling on a systemic scale.
EatinOlives
Member
You're right, she's not an 8 year old nor is this a college assault case.
You're still victim blaming though. That she has been "around the block" and "can file questionable claims in court" doesn't give internet strangers carte blanche to accuse and berate her for doing something she didn't do. Blame her for what is already proven that she did wrong, don't come up with new shit to be angry at her about.
That's the problem with a mob mentality. People can dislike Pao as much as they want, but that doesn't mean they get to trash her for shit she didn't do, then throw up their hands and say "who cares?? She's an awful person anyway!!!" when they're called out to be mistaken.
Splatterpunk
Member
I find the attempts at digging up dirt on Pao pathetic and utterly laughable. "Oh, this one time, she was a dick to her employee for being late, obviously she's totally unfit to be CEO of Reddit." She was CEO for 2 years, the way this played out you'd think this was sort of buildup of public missteps over that time, yet I'm willing to bet the majority of peeps losing their heads had no clue who she was until two months ago. Sounds like maybe the mods had legitimate grievances, but that had fuck all to do with the surge of hatred from banning fatpeoplehate and the other subs.
It's legit, I was there when it was going down. Absolute shitshow on the frontpage.
It's legit, I was there when it was going down. Absolute shitshow on the frontpage.
I think the question why she didn't say anything is fair though. Perhaps she wasn't the driving the force behind the firing but still approved it? Or was she held back by some kind of NDAs?
You can dislike her while not taking part in anything sexist/racist. There are people actively trying to frame this as "Reddit gave in to sexist/racist trolls and fired a flawless paragon of virtue!", which is maddening.
People aren't "digging up dirt" on her- this stuff has all been high-profile because of the failed lawsuit and various public statements (banning salary negotiations) over the past year or so.
You can't throw your boss under the bus. You'll wind up under the wheels even faster.
systematic
Unconfirmed Member
Here's the archive.org page for reddit.com/r/all on 11th June: https://web.archive.org/web/20150611023026/http://www.reddit.com/r/all
Most of the snapshots for that page around 10-12th June are just as bad: https://web.archive.org/web/20150714183100*/http://www.reddit.com/r/all
...what has Ellen Pao done in the tech industry that you find brilliant and successful?
companies as a general rule do not comment on personnel decisions unless it's already public information (i.e. someone being fired because they got arrested for something serious). it's a legal minefield.
also in this case the guy who did it was essentially her boss.
RockTurtle
Member
Her boss apparently was doing a power play to setup the old guard and snatch reddit away from conde nast
If you are to believe that post.
If you are to believe that post.
DoktorEvil
Banned
All of those subreddits are moderated for free?
Man, why aren't these people MORE upset at performing free labor? What the fuck.
The people at Reddit are financed by Conde Nast and you're upset at how they're running their business, a business which moderation isn't paid for?
It's essentially a forum hosting service. Many mods for games like LoL actively work for/with the companies involved.
vas_a_morir
Banned
I think you are right. I think they have a sense of meta-humor and do it for the absurdity of the movement more than anything deeper than that. People called the monicker "Chairman Pao" racially offensive, which I don't quite understand that reasoning. Seems like a guy named "David Mittler" would have been called "Adolph Mittler" under similar circumstances and I wouldn't have necessarily found that to be an indictment of white people. Not saying it isn't a valid feeling for the affected parties, just that it's a shame people have been made to feel that way about what is otherwise a pretty funny pun.
cubicle47b
Member
NeoGAF mods don't get paid either.
I mean, do you really think that the harassers are hiding behind VPNs and TOR? If there were desire to find and punish them, we have the technology: Twitter has logs, Comcast has logs, put 'em together and you've got your real identity. Yeah, the hardcore trolls could stay hidden, but the problem with the harassment is its volume, so hitting the 95% would solve the problem.
But that volume is also what makes it difficult to control. It's just not worthwhile to get a court order and press charges against every single person who tweeted "FIRE CHAIRMAN PAO! #hashag" The work required to punish a troll compared to the actual harm an individual troll causes: it's just not worth it.
Dreams-Visions
Member
We knew Pao didn't fire her 3 days ago.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...n-pao-and-the-failure-to-rebrand-web-2-0.html
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...n-pao-and-the-failure-to-rebrand-web-2-0.html
RockTurtle
Member
Oh my goooooooooooooooood the hyperbole
Edit: what does the tech industry have to do with this?
cubicle47b
Member
Reddit isn't making a profit.
Splatterpunk
Member
The example I gave is absolutely digging up dirt. Both the lawsuit and the salary thing were within the last couple of months (and like I said, I'm sure 90% of the reddit base either had no clue or didn't care about either, at the time), what other statements did she make before that? I can't really find anything else bad or controversial. There's an article in which Brianna Wu talks about her lawsuit, so that may have put her in a couple of people's crosshairs.. and there's r/Ellenpaosucks which is 7 months old but apparently was started as a satire/parody sub.
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