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Emily Rogers: NX Not Using x86 Architecture - Won't Blow Away Current Gen Consoles

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rekameohs

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Yeah, that'd be cool. I'm still just thinking about what I said above. If there's only one version, does the handheld ever get handheld centric games? Or just play lower res/graphic versions of the console games. And is it strong enough so that playing those compromised versions isn't that bad?
What are "handed centric games"? The Wii U got budget titles, like Kirby's Rainbow Curse and Star Fox Guard, and the 3DS got large-scale games like Monster Hunter. The gap is narrowing between the two.
 

MuchoMalo

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No, I'm not. If the plan is 'all of our games can be played anywhere, you decide where' Nintendo is going to target the lower-end specs and not really bother with the higher end. You know why? Because it's cheaper for them. So if the handheld screen is 540p, their games will go from being 720p upscaled on a TV to being 540p upscaled on a TV.

See the problem?
That's not how it works. the console version would still render them at a higher res, and perhaps even use better textures. Think of it like settings in PC games.

If you're saying that they won't bother having different "settings," then they wouldn't bother with the idea at all. That much should be common sense.
 

KingBroly

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That's not how it works. the console version would still render them at a higher res, and perhaps even use better textures. Think of it like settings in PC games.
Nintendo's not going to re-render everything on the higher end model because it'd make the console too expensive. And even then, it's still not taking advantage of the higher-end hardware. Cross-platform multiplayer would give a major advantage to console players if you did what you're suggesting as well. Nintendo isn't going to do that.
 

Mory Dunz

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What are "handed centric games"? The Wii U got budget titles, like Kirby's Rainbow Curse and Star Fox Guard, and the 3DS got large-scale games like Monster Hunter. The gap is narrowing between the two.
I used ALBW vs Zelda U as an example in that post.

I guess pokemon in its current state is the biggest example. EDIT: well pokemon doesn't get "two" interations (in a way) anymore since Colloseum/Gale of Darkness, but it's still what I'd call handheld centric.
 
Sep 11, 2007
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I'd question X1 as well. 20nm node just isn't very good and if the handheld is going to use it I think P1 is just more logical even if it's cutting edge.
I guess we are talking about what margins would Nvidia want for their newest and more expensive tech and what Nintendo wants in terms of power and consumption alongside costs.
 

DragonSworne

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Aug 23, 2011
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The fan reactio is the Wii and Wii U all over again.

"I'm okay that Wii being weaker than PS3 and Xbox 360. As long as we get those Graphics in SD. Fine by me" - Wii before being revealed

"I'm okay with 360 PS3 graphics, as long as we get them in 1080p". - Wii U before being revealed.


NX is more than likely going to be weaker than Xbox One guys. If it wasn't then they would have just said it was stronger or the same as the current gen consoles. All this interpretation of it being between the two consoles (like how would you even reliably determine that lol) is nonsense.
 

KingSnake

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No, I'm not. If the plan is 'all of our games can be played anywhere, you decide where' Nintendo is going to target the lower-end specs and not really bother with the higher end. You know why? Because it's cheaper for them. So if the handheld screen is 540p, their games will go from being 720p upscaled on a TV to being 540p upscaled on a TV.

See the problem?
It will be natively rendered at 540p on the handheld and natively rendered at 1080p on the console. Not upscaled from 540p to 1080p. If handheld is indeed based on Tegra, it shouldn't be an issue to run the games at 540p.

Nintendo's not going to re-render everything on the higher end model because it'd make the console too expensive. And even then, it's still not taking advantage of the higher-end hardware. Cross-platform multiplayer would give a major advantage to console players if you did what you're suggesting as well. Nintendo isn't going to do that.
If the console is not too powerful and the handheld is powerful, it's not really an issue.
 

MuchoMalo

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Nintendo's not going to re-render everything on the higher end model because it'd make the console too expensive. And even then, it's still not taking advantage of the higher-end hardware. Cross-platform multiplayer would give a major advantage to console players if you did what you're suggesting as well. Nintendo isn't going to do that.
Then they wouldn't make the console if they felt that way. Seriously, you're overthinking it. If they go the path people are talking about, they do the extra work. If they don't want to do that work, they won't bother with the idea at all. It's as simple as that. You're not going to have a console acting as an upscale box.
 

rekameohs

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I used ALBW vs Zelda U as an example in that post.

I guess pokemon in its current state is the biggest example.
I think the idea is that they'd be able to make ALBW and Zelda U budgeted games for the same console without needing to split development time between two architectures.
 

MoonFrog

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As I've said before, perhaps not on GAF, as long as Nintendo keeps making enough games that I want, I don't care about the system's power much. I'd be disappointed if the system were a home console and weaker to barely stronger than the Wii U, but that's the baseline. As such, I'm much more interested in whatever the controller is, the launch year titles, what sort of ~shared library the system has with the handheld, what the OS and features will be, etc.

Power doesn't really enter into my dreams much except as a way to make the system able to catch Japanese software meant for PS4. In my dreams, Japanese console gaming has a renaissance on NX handheld in Japan and on PS4/NX home in the west. But heck, if Japan does start making a bunch of stuff I care about again, which I doubt, I'll just finally get a PS4 if it's not happening on NX/PC. I've liked cutting down to just PC and Nintendo but that can end.

Beyond that there is a concern as to how Nintendo could get marketshare again and what role power could play helping or hindering that. I want a Nintendo that has a healthy place in console gaming so they keep making games I love and so they are more likely to throw, say, Metroid out in their largess and shared catalog freedom :p.
 

Onemic

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Who thought it would 'blow away' consoles after what Nintendo did with the WiiU and the WIi?

It'll be a slightly more powerful PS4, maybe on or slightly below PS4 Neo's level Im guessing.
 
Sep 11, 2007
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Nintendo's not going to re-render everything on the higher end model because it'd make the console too expensive. And even then, it's still not taking advantage of the higher-end hardware. Cross-platform multiplayer would give a major advantage to console players if you did what you're suggesting as well. Nintendo isn't going to do that.
It wouldn't be different as resolution settings on PC. Handheld plays the game at 540p and console at 1080p.

Is the same game, same textures, same all, just running at two different resolutions, there's no upscaling.
 

Peterc

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The fan reactio is the Wii and Wii U all over again.

"I'm okay that Wii being weaker than PS3 and Xbox 360. As long as we get those Graphics in SD. Fine by me" - Wii before being revealed

"I'm okay with 360 PS3 graphics, as long as we get them in 1080p". - Wii U before being revealed.


NX is more than likely going to be weaker than Xbox One guys. If it wasn't then they would have just said it was stronger or the same as the current gen consoles. All this interpretation of it being between the two consoles (like how would you even reliably determine that lol) is nonsense.
Who?
 

Wowfunhappy

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Nintendo's not going to re-render everything on the higher end model because it'd make the console too expensive. And even then, it's still not taking advantage of the higher-end hardware.
It's not?

Rendering resolution has a huge factor on performance! Rendering at a higher resolution is ABSOLUTELY making use of higher end hardware. I'm sure that PS4 games could have a whole lot more effects if all of them targeted 540p.

Cross-platform multiplayer would give a major advantage to console players if you did what you're suggesting as well. Nintendo isn't going to do that.
This is actually an interesting point. Then again, is it a major problem on PC? Do people using 4K monitors have an advantage over people playing on 1366x768 laptop screens? Also, super-competitive multiplayer has never been a major aspect of Nintendo systems.
 

ozfunghi

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Trev is too busy going full-fanboy for her to take him seriously. I want someone to call her out directly. To her face. She gets a few things right and it all goes to her head. She needs a slice of humble pie so she can chill out a bit and ONLY report on what she hears without adding in extra information, her opinions, or even things that straight-up made up.
She doesn't need humble pie. I have nothing against her and i appreciate her input. However, she needs to understand, that when she's not really technical person, that she needs to keep her interpretation OUT of the equation. Just inform us with what she's been told and clearly sepparate that from her opinion or interpretation.

Like i said in the past, her interventions usually pose more questions than sollutions. Just because she doesn't seem to be aware of what exactly it is she's stating. Like her statement about the AMD chip mix up rumor, that would have everybody assume the NX chip would be 28nm due to how she worded it.
 

Vanillalite

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I guess we are talking about what margins would Nvidia want for their newest and more expensive tech and what Nintendo wants in terms of power and consumption alongside costs.
Nvidia needs customers. This has been an issue for them ever since Tegra 3 bomba'd.

So that could help cut down the expenses for what would be their newest chipset.

Not that I'm saying that's what Nintendo would get.
 

Mory Dunz

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I think the idea is that they'd be able to make ALBW and Zelda U budgeted games for the same console without needing to split development time between two architectures.
So you're the saying the budgeted styled games would still exist for certain franchises. (i.e. ALBW vs Zelda U), but franchises in which the handheld game was basically a worse version of the console game (MK7 v MK8), then only one should exist.

Or they could make a different game instead of MK7 and add some much needed diversification to their library.
oh, missed this one.
Well, yeah that'd be ideal. But business wise, you'd have to replace those sales somehow, which is more what I was saying.
 

Proelite

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Suppose

Handheld runs games at 960 x 640.

Then the console needs to be at least 4x more powerful. 8x might be the upper limit for the two platforms to share code and assets.

I think if Nintendo is exclusively Nvidia, then its fucking great news as Nvidia is on top of their shit.

Handheld
4 core ARM CPU.
256 core pascal part at 600mhz. 300 gflops.
6GB of LPDDR4. 34 gb/s. 4gb useable for games.
5W TDP

Console
8 core ARM CPU
512 core pascal part at 1.2 ghz. 1.2 teraflops.
12GB of LPDDR4. 101.6 gb/s. 8gb useable for games.
25W TDP.

Handheld is 2x Wii U.
Console is between Xbone and PS4 level in perf.
 

MuchoMalo

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She doesn't need humble pie. I have nothing against her and i appreciate her input. However, she needs to understand, that when she's not really technical person, that she needs to keep her interpretation OUT of the equation. Just inform us with what she's been told and clearly sepparate that from her opinion or interpretation.

Like i said in the past, her interventions usually pose more questions than sollutions. Just because she doesn't seem to be aware of what exactly it is she's stating. Like her statement about the AMD chip mix up rumor, that would have everybody assume the NX chip would be 28nm due to how she worded it.
That's the thing: She doesn't realize that she doesn't know what she's saying because she thinks that she knows everything. That's partially due to arrogance. She has this "imma put you in your place" kind of attitude which gets in the way of her reporting. She needs to get over that before she'll start backing off on inserting too much of her own opinions.

Suppose

Handheld runs games at 960 x 940.

Then the console needs to be at least 4x more powerful. 8x might be the upper limit for the two platforms to share code and assets.

I think if Nintendo is exclusively Nvidia, then its fucking great news as Nvidia is on top of their shit.

Handheld
4 core ARM CPU.
256 core pascal part at 600mhz. 300 gflops.
6GB of LPDDR4. 34 gb/s. 4gb useable for games.
5W TDP

Console
8 core ARM CPU
512 core pascal part at 1.2 ghz. 1.2 teraflops.
12GB of LPDDR4. 101.6 gb/s. 8gb useable for games.
25W TDP.
5W is a little high for a handheld. My New 3DS XL is rated at 4.1W, and the DS Lite is 2.3W. Keep in mind that both of these are including the screens.

Slim Shady.
 

MoonFrog

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So you're the saying the budgeted styled games would still exist for certain franchises. (i.e. ALBW vs Zelda U), but franchises in which the handheld game was basically a worse version of the console game (MK7 v MK8), then only one should exist.
I'd like that. The "budgeted" games are a laboratory for Nintendo and I'd like it if they not lose that even if handheld Zelda has been good not great in recent years imo. They also are still top down, which is a nice play style to keep up.

I feel less keen on, say, 3D Land. I'd rather just get two home console style 3D Mario games and 3D Land, while an important step in modern evolution of the series was just a link in the Galaxy 2-3D World chain. It was also an 'okay' game in my book while the others were great. 2D Mario can target the handheld, though I'd imagine Mario Maker is best making at home but playing could be good on the go.
 

OsirisBlack

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To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.
 

imjust1n

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Remember they want this system to be cost effective and they said they are not going to be at a loss. If they were to make leading chips and blowing out other consoles I think they could be at a loss there unless they are trying to market a 500 600 console which is not what Nintendo does. They will prob price at 400-350 depending on the gimmick if it comes with that controller that is "hybrid" then the price will be more since that is a separate piece of hardware. Which I still dont think its gonna be hybrid at all I think its just a stand alone home console that might have a better network and OS features hopefully Achievements in some sort of way. We shall see what they do.
 

Proelite

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That's the thing: She doesn't realize that she doesn't know what she's saying because she thinks that she knows everything. That's partially due to arrogance. She has this "imma put you in your place" kind of attitude which gets in the way of her reporting. She needs to get over that before she'll start backing off on inserting too much of her own opinions.



5W is a little high for a handheld. My New 3DS XL is rated at 4.1W, and the DS Lite is 2.3W. Keep in mind that both of these are including the screens.



Slim Shady.
5W was an approximation. And even then it sounds doable with a larger and more modern batteries.
 

Neoxon

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To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.
See, no worries. And are you saying that Emily's comments are accurate?
 

Aroll

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No, I'm not. If the plan is 'all of our games can be played anywhere, you decide where' Nintendo is going to target the lower-end specs and not really bother with the higher end. You know why? Because it's cheaper for them. So if the handheld screen is 540p, their games will go from being 720p upscaled on a TV to being 540p upscaled on a TV.

See the problem?
Or it's 720/1080p DOWNSCALED to 540p. Downscaling exists. Why do we have to live in a world where we have to pretend games can only be upscaled?
 

KingSnake

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Jan 9, 2013
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To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.
That's good to hear.

The logic was saying anyhow that an ARM CPU above PS4 CPU with a GPU more or less on par in raw power to XB1 should provide enough performance for that.

But a confirmation is always nice.
 

Malus

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oh, missed this one.
Well, yeah that'd be ideal. But business wise, you'd have to replace those sales somehow, which is more what I was saying.
I think some of the sales would be replaced just by virtue of single-platform owners being able to buy games that were previously exclusive to the platform they didn't own. There are a ton of 3DS games I would've bought if made available on Wii U, and I'm sure there are a bunch of Wii U games that intrigue 3DS only owners.

In terms of raw numbers, I wouldn't expect a new IP or other smaller franchise to sell as much as MK7, true. But I think diversification is much more important to the health of their platforms going forward.

To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.
That's nice to hear.

I was never expecting NX to blow away Xbone/PS4. The "slightly more powerful than PS4" stuff is mostly just for hype, because even if that ended up being the case I highly doubt the difference would be greater than negligible.
 

Mory Dunz

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I think some of the sales would be replaced just by virtue of single-platform owners being able to buy games that were previously exclusive to the platform they didn't own. There are a ton of 3DS games I would've bought if made available on Wii U, and I'm sure there are a bunch of Wii U games that intrigue 3DS only owners.

In terms of raw numbers, I wouldn't expect a new IP or other smaller franchise to sell as much as MK7, true. But I think diversification is much more important to the health of their platforms going forward.
Plus you wouldn't need to market both a MK7 and MK8, or a Smash 3DS and Wii U, or a 3D Land, and 3D World. The list goes on.

And those are the handheld games that usually get a bigger marketing budget.

So in addition to the diversification, maybe some funds would actually be freed up to use on those diverse games lol. One can hope.
 

Last_colossi

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No, like most people, she doesn't know about the handheld.
Only things we've heard about so far for it was the possible screen resolution on gaf, and tegra yesterday from semiaccurate. Nothing else.
Edit: mainly because western third parties don't and won't care about the handheld, and that's where the leaks usually come from.


Edit2 @ MuchoMalo :
She's a good writer, just not when it comes to tech details.
The Tegra X1 in the Nvidia Shield TV has a maximum output of 1.024 TFLOPS @ FP16 & 500 GFLOPS @ FP32.

The Tegra X1 is 2x faster than the previous Tegra K1, so it would stand to reason that the next Tegra would be 2x the performance of Tegra X1.

This means that Nintendo could very well be making a handheld with over 1 TFLOPS in performance which is only about 23% less than the Xbox one.

This fits in with the leaks earlier about Nintendo using Tegra in their next handheld, which also gives credit to my guess that the NX console Emily is talking about is actually a handheld that has almost the same performance as the Xbox one.
 

Vena

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That's good to hear.

The logic was saying anyhow that an ARM CPU above PS4 CPU with a GPU more or less on par in raw power to XB1 should provide enough performance for that.

But a confirmation is always nice.
CPU will likely clock in around the Neo's, though without being held back by shit-uarch.
 

Proelite

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The Tegra X1 in the Nvidia Shield TV has a maximum output of 1.024 TFLOPS @ FP16 & 500 GFLOPS @ FP32.

The Tegra X1 is 2x faster than the previous Tegra K1, so it would stand to reason that the next Tegra would be 2x the performance of Tegra X1.

This means that Nintendo could very well be making a handheld with over 1 TFLOPS in performance which is only about 23% less than the Xbox one.

This fits in with the leaks earlier about Nintendo using Tegra in their next handheld, which also gives credit to my guess that the NX console Emily is talking about is actually a handheld that has almost the same performance as the Xbox one.
The Tegra SOCs draws too much power 10-15W to be in a handheld.

You'll want soc with 1/4 tdp to be in an handheld. 2-3 W. There is the screen, memory etc that also uses power.
 

Last_colossi

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The Tegra SOCs draws too much power 10-15W to be in a handheld.

You'll want soc with 1/4 tdp to be in an handheld. 2-3 W. There is the screen, memory etc that also uses power.
Every iteration of Tegra is 2x more power efficient and has 2x more performance so I would expect Nvidia is capable of producing such a chip.
 

Proelite

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Every iteration of Tegra is 2x more power efficient and has 2x more performance so I would expect Nvidia is capable of producing such a chip.
No way its 2x more power efficient AND 2x more perf between K1 and X1.

Thats 4x more perf per watt between iterations. Even moving to 16nm from 28nm Nvidia was able to get only 2x perf per watt.
 

Sadist

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To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.
Hehe, good to hear.

Goes to show that the majority of GAF has no idea about how hardware works. (Me included btw.) Folks need to wait on more info before posting hehe.
 

charsace

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If it was x86 it would be bit easier to emulate the hardware in the future. Oh well.

I still think the NX will end up being a android handheld, just a really powerful one with a nintendo customized android platform. To me it just makes sense since console gaming is dying in Japan.
 

thefro

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Proelite

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To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.
Do you consider the differences between Xb1 and PS4 multiplats issues? Or is issue something more than just graphical settings.
 

Eolz

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To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.
Thanks for that, hopefully it'll put the thread back on the good track again :)
 

Mpl90

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To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.
Thanks for your clarification, Osiris. Very appreciated :D
 

James Scott

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To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.
Sounds good. As long as porting is easy enough I don't think it'll be the reason why it wouldn't get ports.
Cross posting my thoughts on the hardware from the other thread:
For the time being, all Nintendo really needs is a system that performs like the Xbox One+ and the portable at decent strength.
With that power it's enough to get any AAA multiplatform game so that eliminates that barrier with the only one being Nintendo's relationships with 3rd parties. And, if Nintendo doesn't get 3rd parties they're not stuck with a very expensive machine that's hard to give full support to.
If the handheld is a 3DS-like success once again or more (being conservatively priced at launch with a better line up that's very possible) that's really all Nintendo needs this gen to survive even if the NX console faces a Wii U like situation sales wise.
Worst case scenario, repeat of the gen hardware sales wise but they can invest more into games knowing that the install base for these games is considerably larger than just making a Wii U game was this gen.
Best case scenario, the NX console becomes a very big success with every major AAA multiplatform release alongside nintendo's biggest 1st party output ever.
It's a long shot, but that sounds possible and pretty good to me.
Just need to be easy enough to develop for and at least slightly better than Xbox One to not be the "worst port of x game".
There shouldn't be any need to worry about NX competing with PS4.5 or the PS5/Xbox 2.
If the time comes Nintendo can just release an upgrade to the hardware to match the needs of consumers.
 

Milly Osworth

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To add context to my previous post (I was asked via PM) without going into too much detail any game that runs on the XB1 or PS4 should run on the NX with little to no issue. What developers choose to or not to port to the console will more than likely depend on consumer support for the thing.
Didn't we hear the same about Wiiu?
 

MuchoMalo

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Remember they want this system to be cost effective and they said they are not going to be at a loss. If they were to make leading chips and blowing out other consoles I think they could be at a loss there unless they are trying to market a 500 600 console which is not what Nintendo does. They will prob price at 400-350 depending on the gimmick if it comes with that controller that is "hybrid" then the price will be more since that is a separate piece of hardware. Which I still dont think its gonna be hybrid at all I think its just a stand alone home console that might have a better network and OS features hopefully Achievements in some sort of way. We shall see what they do.
I don't understand how so many of you are taking "not sold at a loss" to mean "huge profit margin per unit," and how many think they'll repeat the mistake of an expensive gimmick after acknowledging that it was a problem for Wii U.
 
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