That's the thing though. Wii U was stronger than PS360, had exclusive titles you couldn't play anywhere else, and had a unique controller that gave you different ways to play, and was the cheapest of the new consoles. It ended up being a flop. One of the main reasons? It wasn't powerful enough to handle the games most devs wanted to make and it ended up costing Nintendo in 3rd party support. Relative power is a very real thing and if Nintendo isn't planning on making a system to rival or at least surpass PS4 and Xbone, then you better damn well have a gimmick to draw people in besides "cheap Nintendo box that plays exclusive Nintendo titles".
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Emily Rogers: NX Not Using x86 Architecture - Won't Blow Away Current Gen Consoles
- Thread starter dancrane212
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That's the thing though. Wii U was stronger than PS360, had exclusive titles you couldn't play anywhere else, and had a unique controller that gave you different ways to play, and was the cheapest of the new consoles. It ended up being a flop. One of the main reasons? It wasn't powerful enough to handle the games most devs wanted to make and it ended up costing Nintendo in 3rd party support. Relative power is a very real thing and if Nintendo isn't planning on making a system to rival or at least surpass PS4 and Xbone, then you better damn well have a gimmick to draw people in besides "cheap Nintendo box that plays exclusive Nintendo titles".
lwilliams3
Member
1) All/most software will be limited to accommodate the base power of current Gen console for awhile.
2) Depending on how well the portable/console interacts, they may automatically be better off than with the Wii U.
3) Power is one of the least of the issues the console will have to overcome.
OrbitalBeard
Member
All of Nintendo's teams working on software for a single ecosystem + some third party partnerships wouldn't really be a small selection of games. Probably be similar to 3DS and Wii U combined, which would be fine with me, especially if most of that content is exclusive.
The question is: would this content be enough to appeal to a wide audience? I'm worried it won't be.
Davey Cakes
Member
Outdated in what way? We know it'll be modern hardware. It may not be the most powerful but it'll probably be quite efficient with what it has.
Put me in the "it's not about power" camp. Nintendo needs to find an alternative. A "gimmick" or, rather, a full-fledged feature that differentiates the NX might be enough. I think the shared library, if it comes to fruition, would be pretty big and would set Nintendo apart. But that's just one potential feature that's been rumored and discussed.
Skittzo0413
Member
I disagree- the main problem the Wii U faced against the PS3 and 360 was that it launched 7 years after them, and barely surpassed them in power. If the Wii U had the same starting install base as PS3 and 360 it would have gotten the majority of the same ports (although Nintendo's developer tools and support were also a key reason it didn't get many ports). Relative power between PS360 and Wii U wasn't a problem whatsoever.
Now, the Wii U vs the PS4 and XB1 is potentially a better example, but in the case of the NX vs the Neo or Scorpio, unless developers are making exclusives for Neo or Scorpio that the base PS4 or XB1 can't run, then the NX will easily be able to run any multiplatform port. Whether or not third parties choose to port the games is another issue, but honestly the power gap between NX and Neo/Scorpio won't be a limiting factor in the games it receives.
Milly Osworth
Member
Well if all 3DS games were also on WiiU, would Wiiu have sold 50-60 million times then? Nope.
With the arms race MS and Sony are in now for the traditional console gamer, I expect Nintendo to miss the boat completely. The market simply isnt there for them. I played on my NES and Gameboy as a kid, then Nintendo 64 as a teenager. Kids now play on their phone and as a teenager they either stay on their phone or go to Xbox/Playtation/Steam. Nintendo is not part of the landscape anymore.
OrbitalBeard
Member
Who said it would? Wii U's software output is only part of its problem.
If NX comes in multiple form factors though, I could easily see it selling 50 million+ units. It's going to depend on a lot of factors but if every future Nintendo device plays the same software, then that number is entirely possible.
Now if their next home console and handheld are both separate, walled gardens again, then yes, they're in real trouble.
Exactly. Man, I hope they pull it off.
I'm not on about the software or the power, it just seems that it will be sandwiched between two beasts with full marketing pushes from their respective companies. I don't see where Nintendo will fit in. Lack of NX info is annoying, but if we officially hear about new Sony and Microsoft machines before we hear officially about the NX, then that's just a bad play by Nintendo imo, unless their "disruptive" idea is something truly unique and can steal some of the limelight.
Davey Cakes
Member
If that's the case, maybe the NX's potential "limitations" are by design. Remember, Nintendo is diversifying outside of gaming too. If Nintendo can sustain their gaming side with a better thought-out (but also niche) console and handheld combo with streamlined development, then it's all good to them.
thehillissilent
Member
Skittzo0413
Member
I completely agree with this. If Nintendo doesn't take their post-reveal time to adequately market and hype the NX then they really don't stand much of a chance. Definitely my biggest concern, though hopefully Kimishima at the helm can help underscore the importance of spending a lot in marketing.
Davey Cakes
Member
And one of the biggest parts of "marketing" is messaging. Nintendo needs to send the right message. They need to avoid confusion. They need to make their potential audiences clear. They need to make their feature sets easy to understand. They need to improve their communication with consumers.
Candescence
Member
Yeah, that definitely puts things into perspective. Thanks.
This probably is partly to do with why Nintendo is skipping E3. While there are signs that it's partly to do with problems that forced a change of plans, an independent event at a time when the E3 hype has died down and the spotlight is clear to take, and Nintendo has time to plan for any Sony-style one-ups over the competition if they can do that.
If Nintendo go for cheap console with shared architecture with handheld NX with shared games
They can be successful with huge marketing and the right games. However the games they have that are extremely popular are 2nd or 3rd party. But they do need these exclusive games for the NX for it to be successful.
For example Pokemon Sun and Moon is releasing on 3DS. It would be wise for Nintendo to launch an enhanced version of Sun and Moon. I don't know call it Pokemon Eclipse. Have better graphics and some exclusive Pokemon and features. And release it at the least in the first year of the NX release.
The other one is that they need Monster Hunter 5 exclusively for NX. This would make the NX relevant for Japan. Again they need to ensure this is released in year 1.
With the addition of Mario and Zelda NX may have a chance. Perhaps they can also make deals with 3rd parties here and there for example COD4 remake releasing on NX, the first time we can play a full COD game that's decent on a handheld with cross online with NX console can be appealing.
They can be successful with huge marketing and the right games. However the games they have that are extremely popular are 2nd or 3rd party. But they do need these exclusive games for the NX for it to be successful.
For example Pokemon Sun and Moon is releasing on 3DS. It would be wise for Nintendo to launch an enhanced version of Sun and Moon. I don't know call it Pokemon Eclipse. Have better graphics and some exclusive Pokemon and features. And release it at the least in the first year of the NX release.
The other one is that they need Monster Hunter 5 exclusively for NX. This would make the NX relevant for Japan. Again they need to ensure this is released in year 1.
With the addition of Mario and Zelda NX may have a chance. Perhaps they can also make deals with 3rd parties here and there for example COD4 remake releasing on NX, the first time we can play a full COD game that's decent on a handheld with cross online with NX console can be appealing.
There's only one problem with that, Game Freak. They prefer to take their time when it comes to adopting new hardware & usually stays on the older platform until the bitter end (see Gen 5 & now Gen 7). On top of that, Game Freak prioritizes being able to trade with anyone who owns the game, & having the same game across two different platforms would hinder that. As such, I don't think Game Freak will make the jump to the NX Platform until at least 2018, & that's assuming that Game Freak doesn't do a Gen 7 sequel game. If we do get Dawn-Dusk/Sun 2-Moon 2/Eclipse/whatever, then the NX Platform will likely be left without a Pokémon game until as late as 2019.
Skittzo0413
Member
Messaging is a great point, but messaging actually begins way before marketing. The entire purpose of the console plays a factor in its messaging, which is one of the reasons the Wii U was doomed from the start. If I remember correctly, the Wii U gamepad was originally designed to have just a screen to allow off-tv play and asymmetrical game play, but no touch screen at all. Nintendo decided at the last minute before the reveal to throw on a touch screen, which clearly shows that they had no idea what they wanted to do with the controller, and no idea what its appeal would be.
The NX console/handheld/whatever it is MUST have a clear focus and purpose, whatever its "gimmicks" are, otherwise Nintendo will have no idea how to market it correctly since it wasn't built with any particular purpose in mind.
That definitely could be factoring into their decision, but I do not know if it's the right call to make. Nintendo should be trying to ensure their audiences that they're as serious about gaming as Sony and MS are, and "skipping" E3 doesn't really send the best message. Ideally they would have revealed the console before E3 at their own event with their own spotlight and then gone into great detail about it and its games at E3, but for whatever reason they've chosen not to do that. Hopefully it works out okay for them.
Herb Alpert
Banned
with this new xbox, new ps4 and new nintendo console all coming in the next 18 months... I think we are about to witness some true fuckery.
I can really see this strategy backfiring on xbox and playstation. nintendo, being behind as they are, will manage to avoid the possible backlash of "halfstep consoles"... but will probably have to deal with its own set of problems by releasing what seems to be an underpowered console in 2017.
I'm curious to see how it all turns out. 2017 is going to be a hue year.
I can really see this strategy backfiring on xbox and playstation. nintendo, being behind as they are, will manage to avoid the possible backlash of "halfstep consoles"... but will probably have to deal with its own set of problems by releasing what seems to be an underpowered console in 2017.
I'm curious to see how it all turns out. 2017 is going to be a hue year.
I love the optimism some people have where they actually have faith in Nintendo to be able to pull off a "sony style one up".
I wish I still had that faith.
It won't be underpowered until the PS4K no longer has to be bound by the PS4, which may take a while given the PS4's existing install base.
Will be interesting to see how this situation plays out. If NX (or at least the handheld NX) has 3DS BC then I agree there is no way they'll do an NX port.
If there is no 3DS BC, I think it's more likely.
They've done plenty of late in the generation Pokémon games, but the new devices have always been able to play them via BC.
A) we can't really talk about it being on equal terms or there abouts with the PS4, until we actually have official confirmation
B) It will likely be viewed as a weak machine in the public eye/mindset, when they look at the brand new machines from the competition, which is dangerous.
Though the likelihood won't go up by much. Even with backwards compatibility, Game Freak has grown used to staying on older platforms late in the game. They prefer proven install bases & getting to know the hardware better. Going by that, it's unlikely that they'll take a chance on a new, unproven platform. Granted, they only make mainline Pokémon games for Nintendo handhelds, but you get my point. The 3DS still has a 60+ million user base, & that's something that I doubt that Game Freak would want to ditch right now.
Portugeezer
Gold Member
That's how I see it. I really don't want to spend too much money for the ability to play the odd Zelda or Mario game.
Though all signs point to the NX Console being within the PS4/XB1 ballpark. And as far as performance goes, as stated earlier, Sony's mandate that there can't be PS4K exclusives will hold both the PS4K & XB1.5 back. So while they may be insanely powerful on paper, we won't see much of that potential realized until Sony lifts that restriction (which, again, likely won't be a while given the number of OG PS4s sold).
Your average Joe on the street won't care about that, what they'll know is that the PS4k and the new xbox are much more powerful than their predecessors, and even titles "held back" by the PS4 will llook and run a lot better on the PS4K.
Nintendos public image unfortunately is one of underpowered tech, I don't think there's any escaping that.
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Indeed, they were aiming for the top spot, but now.. Everything is lost, months before the launch of ps4k and scorpio all support of ps4/xbone will dry up, and with it will come nx undoing. About time ninty went 3rd party.
Unfortunately for Nintendo, if both new Xbox and PS4 Neo will be revealed at E3 they will land in a very crowded market in terms of awareness and communication. Especially is Xbox Next is as powerful as rumored. It's a pity they couldn't reveal the NX before E3.
Yes, a separate reveal will draw all the attention to NX, but how long will it be able to keep it before the discussion moves back to Xbox vs. PS? NX launch between PS4 Neo and Xbox Next will anyhow bring up this comparison that Nintendo desperately tries to avoid.
Maybe if it's some kind of "transforming" console would be able to run on a separate lane.
Yes, a separate reveal will draw all the attention to NX, but how long will it be able to keep it before the discussion moves back to Xbox vs. PS? NX launch between PS4 Neo and Xbox Next will anyhow bring up this comparison that Nintendo desperately tries to avoid.
Maybe if it's some kind of "transforming" console would be able to run on a separate lane.
Yep. Game Freak won't jump to the next device until a new generation of Pokémon begins and that won't be until 2019 from the looks of it.
It'd essentially be with how the 3DS was.
3DS released: 2011
First Pokémon games released for 3DS: 2013
Nintendo's next portable: 2017?
First Pokémon games released: 2019.
Makes sense.
We are also entering an era of iterative consoles or SCD powered hardware, so everything isn't as static as it was generations ago.
Candescence
Member
I think you're confusing 'average joe on the street' for 'graphics whore'. Make no mistake, the graphical differences aren't something "your average joe" will even notice, so much as care about, and Nintendo's public image of "underpowered tech" is mainly amongst core gamers.
If your 'average joe on the street' gave a shit about the best graphics tech, the Vita wouldn't be a dumpster fire sales-wise.
average joe on the street don't give a fuck about handhelds, that's why
average joes everywhere bought a record breaking numbers of ps4s and xbones at launch... to play a better looking version of COD. a better looking version of Madden.
I can totally see these new halfstep consoles selling just on the promise of "It's COD... but it looks way sicker bro"
I disagree with the latter, anecdotal evidence, but most people I know view Nintendo as a weak hardware developer, and have done for years.
I'm not suggesting they'd ditch the 3DS, they'v already announced these games for 3DS, but I could see them also porting it over to NX.
But you miss the whole online compatibility thing.
Plus, Game Freak don't like jumping to new hardware when it's not a new generation. That's why we got Black 2 & White 2 on the DS despite 3DS having been out for over a year
TwilightPrincess
Member
If they are in the same ballpark as PS4 they have reached "parity". PS4k will be twice PS4 Power (GPU) and plus 20-30% CPU. Thats not too big of a jump. PS2 vs Cube/XBox
Thats only speculation, but if they use Nvidia and settle @ 1,3-1,5 tflop GPU they could be on PS4 Level or slightly above (performance). CPU of NX is rumoured to be a bit stronger than PS4 (LC Geek), could be @PS4NEO level cpu wise.
At least it would be miles away from the Wii U Fiasco, but thats the best case scenario
To be fair with Black and White 2, the fact that the 3DS was backwards compatible made that decision the best one as they were able to sell to a larger user base, selling to both DS and 3DS users. Due to the fact that the userbase is so important for Pokemon however, unless the system sells amazingly out of the gate before Pokemon is released, the chances of it being exclusive to said system is low. It's a chicken and egg situation in that regard. The system would move off shelves quicker if it has Pokemon but at the same time they don't want to release pokemon on a system with a small userbase to begin with, and backwards compatibility always helped with that.
Laurel_McFang
Member
I probably shouldn't be posting here, but x86 is a cpu or a central processing unit. Intel's cpus have typically been faster than arm or risc (risc is power pc i.e. Gekko and espresso) chips, but intel's chips also handled load balancing in less effecient ways and also had less effecient assembly instructions. Risc stands for reduced instructions hence it cuts down on the complexity of x86 assembly. Intel is actually facing a major problem now though as Moore's law is declining. X86 chips were able to achieve higher clock speeds on a single core, but do to legacy windows support x86 chips also usually contain legacy cores that take up space. As the top speed of cores has been stabilizing, non-x86 chips have been gaining. Newer designs like arm can pack more cores on a single chip and those cores are also more power effecient. Add to this that most of what makes games games is the graphics chips and the arguement for Intel becomes far less important. The ps4 isn't the graphical leader in consoles because of x86 its because it has really effecient ram and a high end graphics card. The chips in nvidia cards are a nonX86 archiecture I believe. In fact I believe Nvidia's chips are descendants of the Mips archiecture developed by silicon graphics that powered the n64, early hollywood cgi grfx stations, and the playstations 1-3. My point being Nintendo not supporting x86 is more forward thinking than some might believe. If the NX uses arm it will be power effecient, if it turns out Ibm did the cpu and its power7 based as many thought the Wii U would be then it will be highly optimized for multi-threading. Multi-threading is the number of threads a cpu can process at once. Power 7 chips are really good at handling multiple jobs at once ensuring steady framerates. Multithreading is widely believed to be the future of chips as single cores are unlikely to be capable of going much faster. More intriguing though would be if Nintendo went with a neural network chip like ibm's true north or nvidia's push into the field. While this is speculation it is possible that Nintendo's nx could be an A.I. Power house giving it an edge in terms of game play and simulations over the competition. However the later is unlikely and pure speculation. Still it might be awesome to see and ibm's true north is intened for smart phones hence it wouldn't be out of the range of portables.
That still brings up the issue of trading between the two platforms potentially causing a problem. And again, even if the 3DS would still see support as far as Gen 7 goes, Game Freak is still one to wait until the bitter end of the last-gen platform to even begin working on newer platforms.
The 3DS can't handle modern game engines, the Wii U was a disaster. If NX handheld is powerful enough for modern game engines and there is a common development environment then the combined ~80m Nintendo audience might be something western publishers deem as worth porting to.
They will never shift before the start of a new Pokémon generation. It's as simple as that.
The 3DS being backwards compatible helped, but they'd have still done it even if not.
NX and power levels, I haven't been following Neo and Scorpius too closely. I'm just curious what fan reaction has been like the last couple days to the latter potentially being more powerful than Neo. I get the sense at this point games look so impressive that this is something XB will have trouble marketing successfully. That is to say, the majority of gamers have chosen the PS4 ecosystem, so I'm wondering if a significantly more powerful XB (than Neo) would even win gamers back. And if not, perhaps this means people won't care as much about Nintendo being not as powerful, hypothetically. Then again, if Nintendo is back at PS4/XB1 power levels, perhaps they still will get a bad rap and some people will care?
Shifty1897
Member
Yeesh. No x86 means no third party support. And yes, Nintendo needs third party support.
Yeesh, so late to the party and so wrong.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
Clearly you haven't been reading the thread. ARM isn't hard to develop for. In fact, one of our own (who also leaked the PS4K) confirmed that development on the NX Platform shouldn't be an issue as far as porting goes.
Yeah, I do think that we are currently at a wall in terms of how much improvement there's going to be. The jump between generations was nowhere near as big as previous jumps and an improvement for Neo/Scorpius will be tricky to see without obvious comparisons. It's a tricky proposition.
Of course, I could be wrong and MS/Sony completely stun the world next month.
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