Support NeoGAF

[Frag Waffles]

I work at an independent insurance agency. I do service and sales. Entry level position. Been doing it for about 6 months and it's a pretty good job so far, but I am starting to see the ugly side of my employer.

Our entire agency is introducing a new bonus system that is essentially "meet this sales goal, then anything after that is a bonus." It's basically a super high sales target with the prospect of making more money overall, but really it's designed to cut the costs on our bonuses where we used to earn a bonus on everything sold, period. Long story short, I will most likely be making about $1,000-$2,000 less in bonuses per year because of new difficult bonus goals. I am (we are) expected to now sell more for less. Sucks.

I just finished having a conversation with my co-worker who is our office manager with 25 years of industry experience. He is fantastic at his job. He is receiving a $10,000 pay cut for the year. I'll say that again a $10,000 yearly salary pay cut which would be $5,000 less than he made a decade ago. Wow. He thinks that he is being phased out for someone who will be paid less. He told me that he needs to find a new job to keep making his current bills. He has been at the agency for a little over a year. Made me super sad to hear.

Its just scummy and goes to show that some employers really couldn't give a care about their employees. Im not sure that it's even necessary, we have a big book of business here that we all are working hard to service and grow. it's just seems petty to me.

It deflates the drive to do great at my job that I should be feeling. I will continue to work hard, and do my part but, man, it just gets me thinking.

 

[Makai]

I worked at a software company which made a big deal out of giving everyone $25 Christmas bonuses.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

You and that dude should start your own insurance company. Call it "Rest Insured".

 

[entremet]

Employers don't give a shit about you.

They're not your friends.

Once you accept this, you'll spare yourself tons of frustration about the working world.

But the great thing is that we're not indentured servants. We can leave.

 

[Visualante2]

I hit target the last three months and haven't been paid my bonus. If I hand my notice in tomorrow I get none of it. It's just another method of control, the best way to look at it is nothing lost, nothing gained.

 

[Makai]

I hit target the last three months and haven't been paid my bonus. If I hand my notice in tomorrow I get none of it. It's just another method of control, the best way to look at it is nothing lost, nothing gained.

I think employees have a lot of control these days thanks to the internet. Glassdoor complaints can make recruitment difficult.

 

[...Scatter...]

Welcome to capitalism. The employers job is solely to service their customers/needs as cheaply as possible to maintain profit while continuously raising the expectation of performance. Most employers look at employees as a cost, not an asset. It sucks donkey balls, but it's rare to find an employer that truly values their people over their own greed. This is also an unfortunate side effect of always having to please shareholders in traded companies. Being profitable is not enough. You have to constantly shrink costs. Over the past 15 years the average job has become much tougher, as the easier ones got outsourced and benefits have shrunk. The rising cost of medical insurance also has something to do with it. It's complicated.

 

[mkenyon]

Employers don't give a shit about you.

They're not your friends.

Once you accept this, you'll spare yourself tons of frustration about the working world.

But the great thing is that we're not indentured servants. We can leave.

As a business owner, I make 100% of my business decisions thinking about how it'll impact the welfare and wages of my employees.

But I'm a Socialist too, so.

 

[ThankYouDaletech]

Look on the bright side. If they could, most employers would pay you and your co-workers nothing and then just pay one other person to hold a gun so you don't stop working. So there's that.

 

[entremet]

As a business owner, I make 100% of my business decisions thinking about how it'll impact the welfare and wages of my employees.

But I'm a Socialist too, so.

I'm being generally cynical. The companies I worked at have been very generous, but employees shouldn't assume that employers have their backs.

Everyone should test their value and take agency of their careers. The great thing is that no one is forcing anyone. But parties can change their minds if it's not working out.

 

[kavanf1]

I could never work in sales. I couldn't handle that cutthroat target-driven culture.

 

[krae_man]

You and that dude should start your own insurance company. Call it "Rest Insured".

"Oh were you awake when accident happened? That's not covered. We only cover when you are sleeping."

 

[Fury Sense]

Sales directors are always changing the commission structure

 

[Shaanyboi]

This is true. I hear shit from people who have worked at some other local studios that seriously shock me. Thankfully, my company can be pretty chill, in my experience. Don't have a bad thing to say about them.

 

[Lautaro]

Employers don't give a shit about you.

They're not your friends.

Once you accept this, you'll spare yourself tons of frustration about the working world.

But the great thing is that we're not indentured servants. We can leave.

Yep, is pretty simple but people still fall for the "loyalty to the company" crap.

 

[Makai]

As a business owner, I make 100% of my business decisions thinking about how it'll impact the welfare and wages of my employees.

But I'm a Socialist too, so.

Oh yeah. Certainly, employers have hearts but they often have to make decisions that hurt their employees. Best to operate under the assumption that your employer is motivated by rational interest.

 

[kavanf1]

General rule of thumb: you don't work for a company, you work for a person. If their manager is bad, it doesn't matter how good the company is, people won't like it and probably won't stick around. If their manager is good, people will put up with a lot of shit from the company.

 

[AstroLad]

Yeah, you see it at a lot of places where all incentives are just to maximize short-term gains. Which doesn't make sense even in a selfish way, because it hurts companies in the medium and long term. Super unfortunate in so many ways.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Seems like a good move, shitting on their best sales people. No way that could possibly backfire.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

Not all employers are bad. The best ones push you to succeed, not to break. It depends where you work.

 

[Septimus Prime]

I used to work for a company that, very recently, cut ties with its most prolific and industry renown producers in a very public and embarrassing way.

So yes. I know about scumbag employers.

 

[Slo]

As someone who's been laid off from a job recently, I'll start by saying that being squeezed by your employer sucks. Sorry that you have to go through that.

My best advice is to quickly come to terms with the realities of the employer/employee relationship, and change your behavior accordingly. I don't mean that you should start being a dick at work or knocking over magazine racks or whatever, but just realize that the relationship is not a friendship, it's only business. That's a two way street, you don't owe them your loyalty.

Make sure that you are getting what you want out of the job, push hard to be put on projects that will look good on your resume, and move on to the bigger better job. Rinse and repeat, move jobs every 3-5 years and keep your career moving forward. They are concerned with their bottom line, you need to be concerned with yours.

 

[Pimplitosaurio]

I was at a work that, because the boss couldn't get new clients, told us we would become freelancers instead.

He told us in a friday, we had until monday to say yes or no.

Also, and I quote: "Since you are freelancers, you won't get paid when doing demos or things like that, because that's what freelancers do"

yeah, emplyers can be scumbags indeed

 

[ProfessorLobo]

Employers don't give a shit about you.

They're not your friends.

Once you accept this, you'll spare yourself tons of frustration about the working world.

But the great thing is that we're not indentured servants. We can leave.

Most people in this country are indentured servants. I was lucky to be able to quit my job and give myself a sabbatical for six months.

 

[highrider]

Employers don't give a shit about you.

They're not your friends.

Once you accept this, you'll spare yourself tons of frustration about the working world.

But the great thing is that we're not indentured servants. We can leave.

That's a kind of pessimistic view but I could easily see it happening to anyone. My boss is one of the highest character, caring human beings I have ever known. There are good ones out there.

 

[Bubba T]

I was at a work that, because the boss couldn't get new clients, told us we would become freelancers instead.

He told us in a friday, we had until monday to say yes or no.

Also, and I quote: "Since you are freelancers, you won't get paid when doing demos or things like that, because that's what freelancers do"

yeah, emplyers can be scumbags indeed

That doesn't sound legal. How did the employees respond?

 

[Akiraptor]

I used to work for a company that, very recently, cut ties with its most prolific and industry renown producers in a very public and embarrassing way.

So yes. I know about scumbag employers.

Kojima, is that you?

 

[Slo]

I was at a work that, because the boss couldn't get new clients, told us we would become freelancers instead.

He told us in a friday, we had until monday to say yes or no.

Also, and I quote: "Since you are freelancers, you won't get paid when doing demos or things like that, because that's what freelancers do"

yeah, emplyers can be scumbags indeed

Two things:

1) You need to find your next gig. That ship is sinking.

2) That ship is sinking. You have to expect there to be cutbacks. You said yourself that he failed to get the clients. When that happens there will be layoffs. Can't fault him there. How else would it work? He just loses money paying you until the company eventually goes out of business?

 

[Bsigg12]

Not all employers are bad. The best ones push you to succeed, not to break. It depends where you work.

I just got a position at Zillow and this has been pretty much every moment I have been there. The best thing to happen to me in my life.

 

[Slo]

Most people in this country are indentured servants. I was lucky to be able to quit my job and give myself a sabbatical for six months.

Nah. Everyone is a mercenary. Some people just aren't aware of it.

 

[Septimus Prime]

Kojima, is that you?

Not implying that that producer is me.

 

[Carl2282]

I've been in insurance for 10 years and the sales side is straight up horrid. Sorry to hear about your office. I've definitely has my fare share of pay cut or bonus stopped because reasons stories myself.

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I just got a position at Zillow and this has been pretty much every moment I have been there. The best thing to happen to me in my life.

Zillow are doing great things. I work in that sector as well, just not with them. Great to hear their management (that they paid a LOT of money to pick up from other places) is worth the bill.

 

[entremet]

That's a kind of pessimistic view but I could easily see it happening to anyone. My boss is one of the highest character, caring human beings I have ever known. There are good ones out there.

I wasn't saying that bosses don't care. People care, companies can't care by definition.

They have their fiduciary duty to remain in business, which may include layoffs or firings.

Someone said it better above, you don't work for a company, but a manager.

 

[Tesseract]

i've never taken shit from employers, no fucks given verbally

insurance companies are blood suckers, leeching the lifeblood of this country (ty toby)

 

[Pimplitosaurio]

Two things:

1) You need to find your next gig. That ship is sinking.

2) That ship is sinking. You have to expect there to be cutbacks. You said yourself that he failed to get the clients. When that happens there will be layoffs. Can't fault him there. How else would it work? He just loses money paying you until the company eventually goes out of business?

Yeah, don't worry, I bailed three days after that, took care of a few personal things and then got a more stable job a month later, so yeah it was a fast sinking ship.

I can kinda fault him because we were a small company, with only a big client and our boss keep trying to go only after the bigger fishes in the industry instead of also looking into smaller/medium proyects

Also it kinda hurts when he buys a brand new sportscar and then three weeks later we are freelancers

That doesn't sound legal. How did the employees respond?

I'm not sure that this was legal or not, but we were a really small company(think 2 employees, the boss and an RH/finances dude) but my coworker was in tears when they told us the news. It was his first job, so he was scared of having to find a next job. Thankfully he is employed again, didn't took long for him

 

[The Lamp]

Employers don't give a shit about you.

They're not your friends.

Once you accept this, you'll spare yourself tons of frustration about the working world.

But the great thing is that we're not indentured servants. We can leave.

Yup. I dont disclose an iota of weakness or personal details to anyone at work that I'm not ready to backfire against me.

Sorry to hear about that bonus thing. Employers will cut costs however they can unless they have a good understanding of what incentivizes good workers to stay.

By the way, working in sales sounds awful. I would never do it. I don't really have the personality to enjoy bullshitting strangers all day, anyway.

 

[Sulik2]

Employers don't give a shit about you.

They're not your friends.

Once you accept this, you'll spare yourself tons of frustration about the working world.

But the great thing is that we're not indentured servants. We can leave.

Technically we aren't, but a huge chunk of the US population de facto is. Student debt, medical debt and living expenses mean they must have their job and live pay check to pay check. Meaning they have to roll over and take everything employers do to them with little hope of finding another job because they can't afford to take the time to look, if there even is a better one in the still terrible economy for the middle class.

 

[Slo]

Technically we aren't, but a huge chunk of the US population de facto is. Student debt, medical debt and living expenses mean they must have their job and live pay check to pay check. Meaning they have to roll over and take everything employers do to them with little hope of finding another job because they can't afford to take the time to look, if there even is a better one in the still terrible economy for the middle class.

Hyperbole.

 

[Tesseract]

Hyperbole.

no it's not, what world are you living in

people are barely surviving

 

[highrider]

I wasn't saying that bosses don't care. People care, companies can't care by definition.

They have their fiduciary duty to remain in business, which may include layoffs or firings.

Someone said it better above, you don't work for a company, but a manager.

Well there are small businesses as well that employ a lot of people, but I get what you're saying. Technically I work for a company but it's privately owned by my boss.

 

[entremet]

Well there are small businesses as well that employ a lot of people, but I get what you're saying. Technically I work for a company but it's privately owned by my boss.

There was a time when you expected to work for a company for a lifetime and retire with a gold watch.

Those days are generally over, though. I believe the average job length is around 3 years.

That's what I mean. Employees need to take charge of their growth and opportunities. If you're not satisfied with your job, speak with your boss, if they can't address you demands, start looking for another job. You have that agency.

If your small company has financial trouble, they can lay you off.

Their primary duty is to stay afloat and become or remain profitable, not to further your career.

 

[Joyful]

slavery with extra steps

 

[highrider]

There was a time when you expected to work for a company for a lifetime and retire with a gold watch.

Those days are generally over, though. I believe the average job length is around 3 years.

That's what I mean. Employees need to take charge of their growth and opportunities. If you're not satisfied with your job, speak with your boss, if they can't address you demands, start looking for another job. You have that agency.

Agreed, but I think in trades and craftsman professions it's still very attainable to stay at one place the majority of your working life.

 

[entremet]

Agreed, but I think in trades and craftsman professions it's still very attainable to stay at one place the majority of your working life.

I do think there are pockets of employers where that is the case. Trades are one, academia is another, especially with tenure--although universities are limiting professorships and relying more on part time instructors.

There are others I'm probably not aware of.

I'm speaking about stereotypical white collar work at traditional companies.

 

[Demoskinos]

General rule of thumb: you don't work for a company, you work for a person. If their manager is bad, it doesn't matter how good the company is, people won't like it and probably won't stick around. If their manager is good, people will put up with a lot of shit from the company.

This is very true. My supervisor that I directly report to every day I have a pretty good working relationship with. It makes dealing with some of the stupid ass decisions handed down through the higher tiers of management much more tolerable.

 

[Soul_Pie]

When it starts getting a bit underhanded and you're beginning to notice a real change in the work environment it's always good to start scoping out other work and just testing the waters a bit, because you might find something better. Most people in a professional capacity have options, but a lot of the time we seem to condition ourselves to think this is the best that we can get and that we owe the employer something. If you can leave for something better, you can also make a point that the behaviour of a company or a particular manager has consequences. That particular brand of vaguely sociopathic management should never go rewarded with any kind of loyalty.

It took me a while to realise but a lot of companies don't have a single shred of loyalty to the people that work for them, but they expect a lot in return, even if that loyalty goes against our best interests. That's not true of all of them, though, there are some really good people to work under who you can voice any concerns with, who go out of their way to accommodate you.

 

[neoemonk]

I used to work for a large retail chain in the Midwest, privately owned by a family. The owners are the richest people in the state. I don't think the retail employees got any kind of bonus. I worked in corporate, and they gave us four coupons that could be used in the store. They expired a month after they were issued, and they were for specific things (like grocery, beauty and health care, etc).

It didn't really bother me until about two days after I got the coupons when a company wide email came out informing us that the previous year was the most profitable year in the company's over one hundred year history. The coupons just seemed like a slap in the face after that.

 

[JeTmAn81]

I worked at a software company which made a big deal out of giving everyone $25 Christmas bonuses.

Lol, I got a $25 Barnes and Noble gift card for ten years of service.

 

[Frag Waffles]

Thanks for all of the responses and commentary everyone.

My best advice is to quickly come to terms with the realities of the employer/employee relationship, and change your behavior accordingly. I don't mean that you should start being a dick at work or knocking over magazine racks or whatever, but just realize that the relationship is not a friendship, it's only business. That's a two way street, you don't owe them your loyalty.

Make sure that you are getting what you want out of the job, push hard to be put on projects that will look good on your resume, and move on to the bigger better job. Rinse and repeat, move jobs every 3-5 years and keep your career moving forward. They are concerned with their bottom line, you need to be concerned with yours.

Agreed. I am especially realizing that with the recent changes happening. Though I will always continue to work hard and do my best even if I'm being nickel and dimed because that's good work ethic and I believe that will better myself in the long run. It's just disappointing because I'm realizing that there's not much of an upside to this particular job when the top producer and office manager is being cut for something cheaper. I'll beef up my experience and move on.

I've been in insurance for 10 years and the sales side is straight up horrid. Sorry to hear about your office. I've definitely has my fare share of pay cut or bonus stopped because reasons stories myself.

I actually sell and service so about an even split there and I'm actually pretty good at sales and I've gotten a grasp on the industry fairly quickly. But after 6 months I'm pretty sure any position that would involve pure sales would not be for me. It's too hot and cold, up and down. But hey better to find out now and gain experience that will last a lifetime.