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[cryptoadam]

It would take years, centuries even and it would involve lots of blood and deaths. Look at the Arabization of the Middle East/Levant. It didn't happen over night but over centuries Arabs move from Arabia into the rest of the middle east until they destroyed/killed/converted the populations that had lived their for centuries.

 

[Gun Animal]

Well Israel isn't an ethno state though since more than half of its population is made up of the Jews the Arabs kicked out of their country. And about 20% or so isn't Jewish either.

How many times do I gotta explain this? An Ethnostate is defined by policy, not present demographics. Israel's policies are openly designed to increase the Jewish population and shrink the non-Jewish population.

If the UK passed a resolution stating that it was an Anglo-Saxon(-Gaelic-Norman) State, and instituted resettlement rights for all English(/Welsh/Scottish/Irish) diaspora, it would be an ethnostate. (for example)

Much like how a Communist State is one which aspires to Communism, not one which has *achieved* Communism.

 

[Chairman Tickles]

Well Israel isn't an ethno state though since more than half of its population is made up of the Jews the Arabs kicked out of their country. And about 20% or so isn't Jewish either.

We could use Saudi Arabia or Iran as examples of "ethno states" since they are pretty close to 100% Muslim. Lets find out what they did to get rid of all their non muslim populations.

Arabs israeli citizens in Israel are second class citizens. They are not legible for civic duties, meaning they are not trusted to engage in the most fundamental aspects (security apparatus) of the state. Ethiopian and Sudanese Jew migrants (many of whom converted to Judaism over 2000 years ago) are being kicked out as we speak.

Also Islam isn't a race and Saudi Arabia is highly diverse. Over 10 million Saudis and Saudi Residents (30%) are not from Saudi Arabia but recent arrivals from Egypt, Yemen, north africa etc. Pakistanis and Indians form the biggest non-arabic groups comprising up to ~4 million; then you have millions of non-arab natives of the Middle east, such as Berbers, Beduins, other north-africans etc.

 

[Gun Animal]

Arabs israeli citizens in Israel are second class citizens. They are not legible for civic duties, meaning they are not trusted to engage in the most fundamental aspects (security apparatus) of the state. Ethiopian and Sudanese Jew migrants (many of whom converted to Judaism over 2000 years ago) are being kicked out as we speak.

Also Islam isn't a race and Saudi Arabia is highly diverse. Over 10 million Saudis and Saudi Residents (30%) are not from Saudi Arabia but recent arrivals from Egypt, Yemen, north africa etc. Pakistanis and Indians form the biggest non-arabic groups comprising up to ~4 million; then you have millions of non-arab natives of the Middle east, such as Berbers, Beduins, other north-africans etc.

Exactly, thank you for this Mr. Tickles

Spoiler

Moldbug has written some stuff about SA/Dubai that I think you'd be interested in:


The existence of successful city-states such as Singapore, Hong Kong and Dubai certainly suggests an answer to this question. Whatever we call them, these places are remarkable for their prosperity and their relative absence of politics. In fact, perhaps the only way to make them more stable and secure would be to transform them from effectively family-owned (Singapore and Dubai) or subsidiary (Hong Kong) corporations, to anonymous public ownership, thus eliminating the long-term risk that political violence might develop.

Certainly, the absence of democracy in these city-states has not made them comparable in any way to Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union. Any restrictions on personal freedom that they do maintain seem primarily aimed at preventing the development of democracy - an understandable concern given the history of rule by the People. In fact, both the Third Reichand the Communist world often claimed to represent the true spirit of democracy.

As Dubai in particular shows, a government (like any corporation) can deliver excellent customer service without either owning or being owned by its customers. Most of Dubai's residents are not even citizens. If Sheik al-Maktoum has a cunning plan to seize them all, chain them and make them work in the salt mines, he's doing it in a very devious way.

Dubai, as a place, has almost nothing to recommend it. The weather is horrible, the sights are nonexistent, and the neighborhood is atrocious. It's tiny, in the the middle of nowhere, and surrounded by Allah-crazed maniacs with a suspicious affinity for high-speed centrifuges. Nonetheless it has a quarter of the world's cranes and is growing like a weed. If we let the Maktoums run, say, Baltimore, what would happen?

exerpt from http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/2007/04/formalist-manifesto-originally-posted.html?m=1

 

[Dice]

Well you start with a lot of DNA tests and end with a lot of eating crow and giving up.

 

[Ke0]

Well you start with a lot of DNA tests and end with a lot of eating crow and giving up.

That or I imagine they start to turn on each other. The super loud "whites are superior", "America is for white ppl only" probably have like 10% Sub-Sahara African in them so they'll be kicked out the country despite their families being here since the beginning by fellow whites whose family immigrated here only very recently. Which would be funny in a way. To be displaced by immigrants

 

[Chairman Tickles]

I think there's a perception problem arising chiefly from the juxtaposition of the popular caricature of the self-proclaimed racist as defined by pop culture and what many ethno-nationalists today are peddling in terms of ideology. This leads to needless conflict, arising from loose association. You don't have to hate another race or ethnic group to be an ethno-nationalist, as most promote a state for every race, not just whites.

And then there's the issue of race, which is a caricature in itself on many fronts. The US is guilty of loose, imprecise definitions; eg defining a Spaniard from Barcelona as a 'hispanic or latino' thus conflating a niche group of western Europeans with some very unique mixed groups found in Latin America...or by conflating all Americans of African decent as beloning to some mythical pan-African group-there is no such thing. Wakanda is not real. Africa is the 2nd most ethnically diverse continent on earth outside of Asia.

Many ethno-nationalists like Spencer also engage in ludicrous pan-ethnic broad brush stroke associations. I, as a western slav have few core cultural-be it religious, mindset or cuisine based identity - affiliation with the Irish or Swedes, but many of us are pale, blue eyed and blonde haired and have the same religion.

Granted, I can blend in, and get along with Irish and Swedes very easily, and vise versa. But I would not want to live long term with the irish and their disgusting fruity beer, or with overly egalitarian swedes and their pitiful social democratic leftist politics. No, my white skin, secular catholic religion and political ideology is wholly incompatible in that context.

I like clean crisp bear, realist politics devoid of political correctness, catholic religion that is secular but still observes and respects old church familial traditions, and red meat (usually beef or pork) for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

BUT, something as superficial as the physical similarities mentioned above gain meaning again when contrasting Europeans with more removed groups, such as sub-saharan Africans, East Asians or people of Middle Eastern heritage.

This is so complex. And yet we try to boil it down to so many neat little ideological and skin pigmentation tricks. And the media loves to roll with the simplistic on a large scale, because that garners controversy and conflict in every nook and cranny.

No, fuck it. Let's all just fight for the right to party how we each see fit. We can't live together and we can't live wholly apart. So lets compromise. This is why borders matter, why the rule of law should protect those within set borders. Why citizenship should have meaning. We can get along, without sleeping together.

 

[ar0s]

What cultural differences? Religion? Jews are pretty white, and a lot of them aren't religious at all. There's no overarching logic that will allow something like an ethnostate to exist, because their hate is irrational. Trying to build a society on irrational hate and exclusions that make no sense is a sure way to fail.

Jews are surely mostly Slavic in origin, which is outside of the Western ethnostate idea.

 

[ar0s]

Well Israel isn't an ethno state though since more than half of its population is made up of the Jews the Arabs kicked out of their country. And about 20% or so isn't Jewish either.

We could use Saudi Arabia or Iran as examples of "ethno states" since they are pretty close to 100% Muslim. Lets find out what they did to get rid of all their non muslim populations.

Muslim isn't an ethnicity and Iran is pretty diverse (Persian/Arab/Turkic/Kurdish etc.) - it even has its own national socialist party run by white/Persian supremacists.

...I, as a western slav have few core cultural-be it religious, mindset or cuisine based identity - affiliation with the Irish or Swedes...

Fantastic post. Hence WW1 & 2 and the US' refusal to get the hell out of Europe as they simply do not trust the European peoples to live alongside one another without war.

 

[cryptoadam]

Arabs israeli citizens in Israel are second class citizens. They are not legible for civic duties, meaning they are not trusted to engage in the most fundamental aspects (security apparatus) of the state. Ethiopian and Sudanese Jew migrants (many of whom converted to Judaism over 2000 years ago) are being kicked out as we speak.

Also Islam isn't a race and Saudi Arabia is highly diverse. Over 10 million Saudis and Saudi Residents (30%) are not from Saudi Arabia but recent arrivals from Egypt, Yemen, north africa etc. Pakistanis and Indians form the biggest non-arabic groups comprising up to ~4 million; then you have millions of non-arab natives of the Middle east, such as Berbers, Beduins, other north-africans etc.

Arab citizens of Israel have full rights and can get whatever job they want, many are doctors, lawyers, politicians etc... Also many Arabs serve in the IDF, a Druze IDF memeber was on that was shot at the gates of the Mosque last year.

Israel isn't kicking out any Ethopians, they actually went through great pains to bring them to the country, Operation Samson should ring a bell. The issue is with illegal migrants which many have crossed from Egypt a safe 3rd country to enter Israel illegaly. And they haven't kicked anyone out yet and the issue is very decisive in Israel as seen by the protest there.

Judaism isn't a race either, and everything you said to point to Saudi's diversity is true for Israel. It has people from all over the world in its country, from Egypt, Yemen, Iran, Morocco, North Africa, USA, Canada, EU, Russia etc... Saudi still priortizes ISlam, and Islam makes up close to 100% of its population while Israel is only a smidge under 80% Jewish.

And I don't have a problem with Saudi wanting to maintain and Arab and Islamic side to its country. Its the birthplace of Islam and of Arabs so I would think they would want to continue to that represent their culture. Just like Israel is the birth place of Judaism and the Jewish nation.

Not every ethno state is going to be white supremacist who want all POC's dead. Sometimes an ethno state is actually preferable. People like to be with their own and mixing people together can lead to great conflicts. Its why we don't have a Czechoslovakia anymore and same with the break up of Yugoslavia into separate countries.

 

[cryptoadam]

Muslim isn't an ethnicity and Iran is pretty diverse (Persian/Arab/Turkic/Kurdish etc.) - it even has its own national socialist party run by white/Persian supremacists.

But then why is Jew considered an ethnicity? Israel is diverse too, Egyptians, Morrocons, Yemenites, Europeans, Russians, Americans, etc... There is probably a person in Israel from all corners of the globe.

If its becaue they want to have a Jewish state, well then any Islamic country(basically the entire OIC) would be ethno states since I am sure most of them are >80% Muslim.

 

[Gun Animal]

But then why is Jew considered an ethnicity? Israel is diverse too, Egyptians, Morrocons, Yemenites, Europeans, Russians, Americans, etc... There is probably a person in Israel from all corners of the globe.

If its becaue they want to have a Jewish state, well then any Islamic country(basically the entire OIC) would be ethno states since I am sure most of them are >80% Muslim.

Jewish is a religion but it is also used as a heuristic label for many historically jewish ethnic groups. Same goes for Muslim to an extent...

This probably held true for "Christian" at some point as well, until missionaries went and converted the whole world. Still, I'm sure there are many in ME, Asia, Africa etc associate "Christian" with a european phenotype, much like how we associate "Muslim" with a middle-eastern phenotype.

 

[ar0s]

Not every ethno state is going to be white supremacist who want all POC's dead. Sometimes an ethno state is actually preferable. People like to be with their own and mixing people together can lead to great conflicts. Its why we don't have a Czechoslovakia anymore and same with the break up of Yugoslavia into separate countries.

Agreed. Noone argues against every other ethnicity/national group being allowed their own nation. It is only white europeans that are not allowed to dislike "diversity = strength" destroying their homeland.