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[slaughterking]

No, you can entice the Stalker away from the choke point and slip through.

/edit/ :I

 

[sennin]

Nope. The Stalker at the choke point only moves when you are in the same row as it, therefore you can lure it out, then circle around it and it won't attack you.

No, you can entice the Stalker away from the choke point and slip through.

Ah, I see! Well that takes care of things for NintendosBooger then.

 

[Ricker]

I'm almost ready to kill Fenrir,the Wolf Boss...i'm level 17 for all my guys,currently mapping the 5th floor... at this point i can afford to buy warp chimes and there's a refill point along the way(thank god) so levelling and exploring and mapping the area's is a little less stressful now.
Considering what i have seen so far,Fenrir will probably kick my ass one my first try though hehe.

 

[Orodreth]

I'm almost ready to kill Fenrir,the Wolf Boss...i'm level 17 for all my guys,currently mapping the 5th floor... at this point i can afford to buy warp chimes and there's a refill point along the way(thank god) so levelling and exploring and mapping the area's is a little less stressful now.
Considering what i have seen so far,Fenrir will probably kick my ass one my first try though hehe.

I think my party was about the same level.

Just try to fight it alone and you shouldnt have problems.

I had them because of the nearby wolves that would join the fight if you took too many turns.

 

[nakedsushi]

I'm playing some more of this in anticipation for II coming out in a few weeks. I'll share a sad sad story about the 2nd stratum. I was fighting the first FOE I encountered on the 2nd stratum. It wiped out everyone except for the Landsketch and Medic, but they were half dead anyway. As a last resort, I had the medic cast cure II on the landsketch and it died the next round from the FOE. The landsketch landed a WELL NEEDED critical and killed the FOE and got TONS of exp b/c the rest of my party was dead.

"Sweet," I thought. I could just warp back into town. Except I forgot to buy a warp wire before heading in the forest. No problem, I'll just walk back to the warp point. Two steps from the door to the warp point, my Landsketch was taken out by some poision gels. =/

 

[jaundicejuice]

lol

Sorry, that's happened to me and probably everyone here a few times. You think you're in the clear after escaping a near deadly encounter only to discover you forgot to buy a warpwire and the game smacks you down, hard.

 

[charlequin]

Always remember to buy warp wire.

 

[mclem]

POSTGAME QUERY:

Spoiler

I finished the story and retired my party, I'm now levelling them up again to tackle the postgame content. I'm trying to remember what people told me are must-have skills for the gimmicky bits of the postgame content, but I've forgotten some of it, can anyone help fill in the gaps?

The protector's Anti-skills to L5
Something from a Troubadour - Erasure, possibly?
Anything else I should be specifically working towards that's essential for some of the nastier bosses?

 

[Pureauthor]

The protector's Anti-skills to L5
Something from a Troubadour - Erasure, possibly?
Anything else I should be specifically working towards that's essential for some of the nastier bosses?[/spoiler]

Protector - 3 Anti skills at lvl 5 each
Medic - Immunize Lvl 10. Not strictly necessary, but it'll save you a whole lot of trouble.
Troubadour - Erasure and Bravery are essential. Relaxing not necessary but immensely helpful.

That's about it.

 

[firex]

You also probably want to build up another 5th party member in place of the troubadour for when you take on

Spoiler

Primevil.

I'd recommend an alchemist or a survivalist, depending upon which one you want to gear up.

The thing about that boss fight is he has a pattern you can learn, unless your party has more than 8 buffs. Then he'll just randomly nuke away and all his elemental attacks are pretty much death without level 5 antis to block them.

 

[Haeleos]

Is it necessary to grab Immunize AND Defender? I don't have Salve I, just Salve II, so...

And what is the benefit to more points in Cure III? Just speed?

 

[mclem]

I should have mentioned, I'm running PLSMT. I started out as PLAMT, but left the A behind early on; still, it should be possible to get him up to speed if absolutely necessary. Are we talking impossible-without-an-A, or just challenging?

Thanks for the help, I'm sitting on about 30 talent points on the T 'cause I've been too nervous to spend them on the wrong thing!

 

[Haly]

Is it necessary to grab Immunize AND Defender? I don't have Salve I, just Salve II, so...

And what is the benefit to more points in Cure III? Just speed?

And lower TP cost. It becomes more cost effective than Cure II pretty fast.

I too am returning to EO in anticipation of EO2. I was wondering how important P's really are later on in the game? My current party is DLTAM. But I was thinking of starting a new game anyway. I think A and M are necessary, and T is extremely helpful (allows me to stay in a dungeon forever). Was thinking of trading my D (who I really love for disabling bosses' skills and effectively wasting their turns) and my L for a P and S.

How useful are S's as damage dealers? Or are they only useful for getting more items?

 

[Man God]

Ignore all healing spells that aren't Salve II.

 

[sphinx]

I should have mentioned, I'm running PLSMT. I started out as PLAMT, but left the A behind early on; still, it should be possible to get him up to speed if absolutely necessary. Are we talking impossible-without-an-A, or just challenging?

Thanks for the help, I'm sitting on about 30 talent points on the T 'cause I've been too nervous to spend them on the wrong thing!

As far as I know, the only must have is the protector. Perhaps the Medic but maybe not mandatory.

use the frog trick to grind later if you feel like it.

 

[mclem]

Is it necessary to grab Immunize AND Defender? I don't have Salve I, just Salve II, so...

Immunize is the superior buff, and for all I've seen up to the end of the story, Immunize alone is quite sufficient.

And what is the benefit to more points in Cure III? Just speed?

Unlike other spells, Cure III gets *cheaper* the more points are in it. At max-level it's a full heal for 10TP

 

[mclem]

Ignore all healing spells that aren't Salve II.

Situationally, Cure III has its uses, I find; while it's not perfect it's the only other healing spell I find that's worth making use of. Although having said that, I don't think you can have Cure III with a combat medic setup reliably, I'd have to check the numbers.

 

[Man God]

By the time you actually see any real difference in HP heal between Salve II and Cure III you should have more TP than you know what to do with and the ability to gain more with either a constant troubador buff or items.

Cure III is useless, non combat medics are useless.

 

[Pureauthor]

By the time you actually see any real difference in HP heal between Salve II and Cure III you should have more TP than you know what to do with and the ability to gain more with either a constant troubador buff or items.

Cure III is useless, non combat medics are useless.

You never have more TP than you know what to do with with any character unless you pack a Relaxing Troubadour along for the ride.

Well, that or Labyrinth 'excursions' consists of all of five steps.

 

[sennin]

Protectors are essential for their 3 anti-elemental buffs if you decide to take on the 3 dragons, which are optional bosses. I'm doing fine without one, and I switched in a Landsknetch during the 4th Stratum.

Survivalists are useful not just for Apollon/Multihit combo, but 1st Turn + Immunize becomes a necessity during the 4th Stratum. Ambush is great for the fact you can use that free turn to set up Immunize/Relaxing as buffs. Using standard armors for a level 40+ party, an ambush by the enemy (normal, not FOE) with 2 consecutive critical hits can mean instant death for anyone in the front row without Immunize. Though I've not tested this, it is likely only a Protector can stomach 2 critical hits consecutively without Immunize.

Seriously, I don't know how any party can survive any 1 floor during the 4th Stratum without a Medic. If a party is solely relying on Defender, it is going to run into $ problems very fast as it chews right through Amritas since Protectors have crap TP.

Part of the notes compiled by gamefaqs posters:

2. Why doesn't the Protector have Defender?

Defender occupies a cherished buff slot and is entirely unnecessary with Immunize.

A note on Defender, Immunize and Shelter: Shelter raises defense only, so it pretty much sucks. Defender and Immunize both do damage reduction as a percentage and will stack though Defender only protects against physical attacks, not elemental ones. Immunize does higher damage reduction to both physical and magical attacks. As for the stats on how they stack, here's a section from the skills guide which will never get completed. It was written by fellow GFAQ's poster Gilaim.

Defender 5 + immunize 10 gives 72.8% damage reduction (60% damage reduction from elements). A very defensive combo and there's no reason to go above level 5 defender, as when stacked, you'll only get another 1.6% damage reduction for 5 skill points. Even alone, you only get 4% damage reduction and that's physical only.

 

[Man God]

You never have more TP than you know what to do with with any character unless you pack a Relaxing Troubadour along for the ride.

Well, that or Labyrinth 'excursions' consists of all of five steps.

Or carry a ton of tp healing items with the gross amount of money gained from mining in the fifth stratum. I've done both, and both work.

Salve II is awesome and maxed out will almost provide a full party heal. Mixed with immunize you should almost never need a heal.

 

[Orodreth]

Reached B7F and got a special key for one of the magic gates.

Is there any way to minimize the damaging floor tiles?

Also, i just got the "unidentified FOE" quest but cant find it. Is it available at an specific place/time only and does it appar at all in the map like the other Foes?

And Has the journal been improved in the sequel? it seems to me like too small/simple and lacking information on the quests. I forgot some details about 2 old quests and dont remember where i have to look for some specific items.

And regarding equip for medic, what should i boost the most? defense and vitality/tp, leave agility as secondary?

How useful are S's as damage dealers? Or are they only useful for getting more items?

I use him for trickery/speed and some attack skills like disable, trueshot or multihit.

And as stated in previous pages, apollon maximized seems to be very effective.

 

[Pureauthor]

Survivalist becomes the most powerful DMG class in the endgame, matched only by the Ronin, who needs to waste a buff slot to do so.

Multihit + Apollon = Dead enemies.

 

[firex]

I should have mentioned, I'm running PLSMT. I started out as PLAMT, but left the A behind early on; still, it should be possible to get him up to speed if absolutely necessary. Are we talking impossible-without-an-A, or just challenging?

Thanks for the help, I'm sitting on about 30 talent points on the T 'cause I've been too nervous to spend them on the wrong thing!

oh, the A isn't necessary. It's just that a T is useless against the final postgame boss because his buffs make the boss go batshit, and you need a boosted level 10 immunize up nearly every turn, so that takes up 5 of your allowed 8 buffs. I went with an A because it was my highest level character sitting in reserve, and I had unlocked some of their uber gear, and I didn't want 2 S's.

I beat the postgame using PLMST for the most part, and at the end it was PLMSA for that one boss. The Medic was combat built (and a level 70 after I had retired a previous level 70 to make her, so she had all the level 70 retiree bonuses) because all I needed on that fight was Immunize 10 and Salve 2, and it made her really good for leveling up other characters. Honestly, I could've gotten away with a healer medic because of the damage my L, S and A did, but it wouldn't have made any real difference since my M only did Immunize, Salve 2, and sometimes Revive, which I had enough points for along with the necessary passives and Caduceus.

An A is good against the final postgame boss simply because you don't have to worry about how you build them for him. He's not got any special elemental immunities (just a shitload of HP) so you could focus on one element for all it matters and just spam the Thunder/Flame/Freeze spells on him. He'll also need less TP restoring items than a S will, although doing dual S would allow you to spread out their spells some (or do dual Apollon).

The only real key to that final fight is a protector with level 5 antis (all 3 of them) and medic with maxed salve 2 and immunize, and enough amrita II and axcela III to keep your medic's boost full when you have to reapply immunize and everyone's TP full. Oh, and probably a few of the unbind items you can buy at the apothecary, because I know that boss bound my party at one point and killed us.

 

[Pureauthor]

And if the boss decides to be a dick he can just spam Necrosis over and over and kill of your entire party since it has something like a 80% success insta-kill rate.

The other extreme situation is to go crazy on the buffs and keep throwing them up because that makes the AI go crazy and debuffing everyone each turn.

 

[firex]

I think I killed him before he ever did Necrosis, but I don't know if that's random or just something he does at like 50+ turns.

 

[A Black Falcon]

I'll beat this game sooner or later... started playing it again today, after a period of some months with no progress (and not playing the game much). It's still so awesome... I decided to use some FAQs, though, because the quests are often obtuse and annoying and I'd prefer to just know what to do to complete them. Quest details/item listings/enemy list FAQs help the game so much...

(Party: M66, D65, L66, A66, H60)

Anyway, since I'm right near the end, I tried to fight the boss of the game (before the postgame content that is). Got slaughtered, of course. I don't know how this party will ever beat that guy... I did manage to just beat the optional boss Manticor, though . He killed me easily in the previous attempt with hits-the-whole-party poison attacks that I can't counter because I don't have Immunize (didn't put enough points in Refresh early enough on because I didn't realize that adding more points made it heal more status effects for a long time, and now it's too late, with Refresh just at 6 and only a few more points to go...) to help me, either, or a protector or troubadour to reduce damage. So, I did what I could: Bet it all on bindings working! To increase my chances I went in to the battle with full boost for most of the party members... and my darkhunter's boosted head bind worked on turn one. Hah! Then within just a few turns, between the darkhunter and hexer, I bound the feet and arms too, then did Ecstasy twice (1800HP to a fully bound enemy...) and it died.

So now I'm thinking about what I need to be able to beat

Spoiler

Etreant

...

*Tries again*

Ah, much better this time, but I still died... Bearing is annoying. Keeps lifting my seals.

Always remember to buy warp wire.

Or just have an alchemist with Warp.

 

[Llyranor]

I'm ambivalent about the game. The combat is nice and challenging, and the exploration has been fun. However, it's becoming quite tedious to me.

Part of it is my own fault. I started the game with creating too many characters (2 of each starting class, so everyone was underleveled). Once I eventually decided to get rid of half of them (keeping 1 of each class), things got better. Then when the ronin and hexer became available, I spent some time getting them leveled up, which ended up being a mistake, since I didn't find them that useful. Then I rested all the rest of my party, so I ended up underleveled as well. All these things made the game a bit more tedious than it should have been. Not to mention that since I was away for the past month, I spent a lot more time on the game than I should have.

I've decided to ignore the extra characters and just focus on my LPDTM, which are in their 40's (M50). I'm at about B20-21F. Is it still worth it to go on? How much more is there? I suppose since I'm almost at lvl 50, I could go with encounter-lowering items to lower the tedium.

Do most people just stick with a party of 5?

 

[Pureauthor]

I'm ambivalent about the game. The combat is nice and challenging, and the exploration has been fun. However, it's becoming quite tedious to me.

Part of it is my own fault. I started the game with creating too many characters (2 of each starting class, so everyone was underleveled). Once I eventually decided to get rid of half of them (keeping 1 of each class), things got better. Then when the ronin and hexer became available, I spent some time getting them leveled up, which ended up being a mistake, since I didn't find them that useful. Then I rested all the rest of my party, so I ended up underleveled as well. All these things made the game a bit more tedious than it should have been. Not to mention that since I was away for the past month, I spent a lot more time on the game than I should have.

I've decided to ignore the extra characters and just focus on my LPDTM, which are in their 40's (M50). I'm at about B20-21F. Is it still worth it to go on? How much more is there? I suppose since I'm almost at lvl 50, I could go with encounter-lowering items to lower the tedium.

Do most people just stick with a party of 5?

It's certainly doable, and in the interests of efficiency, I'd suggest that.

Personally, however, I played pretty much the opposite way - like a 'real' guild, I suppose. I started out with a few characters, then as time went on I just kept adding more and more, to the point where I've fill out the entire roster. I had a couple of points where interest waned, but it's happened before in other games, so I just let it lie for a few months before returning to it.

More on topic - there are a total of 25 floors for the main game, with an additional 5 postgame floors. The postgame floors are brutal in terms of their mazes and mapping difficulty.

 

[sennin]

I switch around a bit, since I like Protector, Landsknecht, Alchemist and Ronin but none of them are a necessity for progress. Hexers and Dark Hunters are jobs I plan to experiment with after I get to work on being rich. B21F, here I come!! $$$!:lol

I have a lot of doubts about balance in EO, in particular the Protector's Provoke skill rate of success is percentile based. You can spell that as C-R-A-P. I can't speak for other mmorpgs, but in FFXI a Warrior's Provoke skill is 100%, same as the Paladin's Flash. The Protector in EO is only unique for its anti-elemental skills, everything else it has, including Smite, is outclassed by other jobs. What is the point of all those fancy Fortify/En Garde/Parry skills if a tank cannot control a mob's enmity? F. Guard is not too shabby, but again rendered useless by Immunize.

I'm also not fond of the fact that Atlus didn't include arrow icons as part of the mapping tools, although from screen shots I've seen in EOII this apparently has been fixed. It was a challenge trying to map b14f, b16f and b19f.

 

[charlequin]

I just want to reiterate once again that, outside of the specific endgame bosses (which unfortunately have very specific build requirements to defeat effectively) the game has a pretty wide range of workable specs and no one actually has to listen to Man God about what's useless or not. I find Cure III to be great and very handy in keeping TP consumption down; I like my regen medic a lot and don't have a combat medic at all. (And I didn't even buy Immunize until the middle of the fifth stratum, and certainly never had to use it in random encounters, really.)

Personally, however, I played pretty much the opposite way - like a 'real' guild, I suppose. I started out with a few characters, then as time went on I just kept adding more and more, to the point where I've fill out the entire roster.

Me too. How am I supposed to learn how all the different classes work if I don't create them and level them up, hmmm? (This is going to be a real challenge in EO2, what with three extra classes. Also, the temptation to someday go through with an

Spoiler

all-animal

party may prove too much for me.)

I have a lot of doubts about balance in EO, in particular the Protector's Provoke skill rate of success is percentile based.

The Protector is unfortunately the class with the most diffculty balance-wise; they're great in the early game and necessary for the post-game bosses, but unlike basically every other class in the game their "shtick" is better handled by other classes. (This is, to my understanding, rather dramatically changed in EO2, though I'll have to play it before I can say whether it's been "remedied.")

I'm also not fond of the fact that Atlus didn't include arrow icons as part of the mapping tools, although from screen shots I've seen in EOII this apparently has been fixed. It was a challenge trying to map b14f, b16f and b19f.

Apparently EO1 was already pushing at the edges of what is physically possible with the save-ram on a DS cart, which is why I'm astonished at how dramatically upgraded the EO2 mapping system is: literally three times as many icons to use, plus the ability to paint floor tiles in three colors instead of one (something I'd wanted reeeeeal bad in EO1).

 

[firex]

EO2 is going to be so fun. I've kind of already decided how I want to build the different classes I plan on making, but that doesn't change that I've come up with 3 parties to build! I like to go with themed parties.

 

[sennin]

And I didn't even buy Immunize until the middle of the fifth stratum, and certainly never had to use it in random encounters, really.)

I'm curious, how did you survive the treks in the 4th Stratum without Immunize? Actually a better question will be, how did you defeat Fenrir and the various FOEs + Stratum bosses without Immunize?

 

[Pureauthor]

I'm curious, how did you survive the treks in the 4th Stratum without Immunize? Actually a better question will be, how did you defeat Fenrir and the various FOEs + Stratum bosses without Immunize?

The first time I actually bothered with Immunize was on B20F when I lost my patience with the humongous amount of FOEs, so I set up Immunzie, Defender, and Relaxing and just waited until they were all lined up and falling over themselves to attack me before I started attacking.

Other than that? I made it through fine.

 

[nincompoop]

I'm curious, how did you survive the treks in the 4th Stratum without Immunize? Actually a better question will be, how did you defeat Fenrir and the various FOEs + Stratum bosses without Immunize?

I didn't really use Immunize until the 4th or 5th stratum either and even then I only used it against FOEs/bosses. Defender worked well enough on FOEs before that. The 4th stratum wasn't that difficult for the most part, I probably burned more TP on special attacks for my L/D/S than in previous stratums but I mostly used the same tactics that I had been using before then (I.E. hold 'A'). It wasnt until around B22/23 (wherever it was that those crabs started showing up) that I needed to uses defensive skills for regular battles.

 

[linsivvi]

Like many, I just went back to this game recently in anticipation of EO2. Now I'm currently in the post game struggling with those random rare drops from the bosses. I even have 2 characters with 10 scavenge. This is starting to piss me off.

I also didn't have immunize until I retire my party during the 5th Stratum. It all depends on how your party is built I guess.

 

[sennin]

hmm, I see. You guys had Defender. ^ I didn't, I guess that makes a whole lot of sense now about FOEs/bosses. As for the regular battles, your equipment were all geared towards DEF? What were your party's levels like during the 4th Stratum? I noticed that level 40s have a problem, while level 50s can get by fine without Immunizing in every random battle. By the time a party reaches 50 though, I think they should have taken down the entire B20f's core residents. Party setup was LMTSA. As I've mentioned, for the most part anything on the 4th Stratum does 45% damage/hit to any member.

Is it just me or was B20F free from random encounters?

 

[A Black Falcon]

I'm curious, how did you survive the treks in the 4th Stratum without Immunize? Actually a better question will be, how did you defeat Fenrir and the various FOEs + Stratum bosses without Immunize?

Well, yeah, when you first reach a stratum (or a floor) it usually is really hard for a while, until you start to level up. That's just how the game works. How I beat specific bosses that I played months ago, though... yeah, I can't remember.

You are right that status effects often were tough, though. Poison or Stone, particularly... getting hit by that is a real hassle, and isn't easy for me to remove. And my Refresh is still only level 6, so it doesn't even heal Terror or Stone. So yeah, I definitely try to avoid enemies that can turn characters to stone...

Other than that, the hardest enemies, really, are the ones that can put your whole party to sleep. I really have no defense at all against that except "either try to kill them all before their turn or hope you can run away before they wipe out the whole party". When one of the tougher parties of those (with two of the enemies with sleep) gets first hit on my party, there's still a good chance that my whole party is going to die...

Actually, in my current party, the only buff skill I have for any character in my main party is War Cry/Hell Cry for the Landsnecht... no Defender or Immunize here. I used to have some when I was using the Troubadour as my 5th character, as I did for much of the game, but I switched over to Hexer after I unlocked that class and lost them in favor of more things that affect the enemy. I've never really felt the need for a protector... as for Immunize, yeah I'm sure it'd be useful, but without a complete redo of my medic's skills, I just can't fit it in. And I don't want to retire my characters now... building them back up to where they are now would take so, so long, and I don't like grind. At all. I mean, I have level 10 TP Regen, Attack Up (I use my medic in the front line, this is quite useful), Healer, and TP Up... for healing in battle I rely pretty heavily on Salve II. It's only level 2, though... that's another thing I'd definitely like to make higher, if I could re-distribute points...

Full TP Up and TP Regen means that despite using a lot of spells, the medic is usually one of the last to run out of TP. I also have full TP Up and TP Regen for the Alchemist... I know with a Troubadour you can cast a spell that heals TP, but without one, the Medic and Alchemist pretty much require you to build up those skills. I wish the Hexer had TP Regen too... that'd make things much easier. As it is I often have to not use skills with the Hexer in order to conserve TP, while with the Alchemist and Medic I don't have to much because their TP regenerates.

What I do have is two characters who can bind enemies' head/arms/legs. I also have level 10 Evil Eye. So for bosses, the key is either binding them (preferably in all three places so that I can then use Ecstasy and do huge damage) or successfully hitting them with Evil Eye, upon which time they are instantly rendered helpless for the rest of the match (as long as I have the TP for it, but I've got enough TP heal items to make that not a problem). It's pretty great when something happens like succeeding with Evil Eye on turn one against a Dinolich or something like that...

Manticor was pretty tricky, because it can attack the party hitting all characters and doing far more damage than I can heal (it could do like 250-300 damage to everyone and my Salve II only heals like 175 or so per character) and can also poison too, something I can't easily remove (maybe one character at a time I could? But if they're all hit, it's hopeless), and that poison does HUGE damage... so as I said, my successful victory strategy was get Boost for all characters and then hope that my turn one bind head attempt succeeded. And it did.

The final boss is kind of similar, except he can remove bindings, making him really, really hard for this party. And evidently I'd find the floor 30 boss even harder... bah. I don't want to have to level up my Defender! The only one I have is only level 30 (part of my second party), and I've never found it useful at all... I don't know, I don't like the class much. Survivalists and Troubadours are both great, and really useful, though. Ronin too... if I could I'd have one of each of those in my party too.

Is it just me or was B20F free from random encounters?

You're right, bosses only.

 

[The Blue Jihad]

I'm way behind, cause I haven't had the chance to really play a lot lately, but I'm at B7F, with PLLMT, all at level 26. I'll be swapping in a S for one L pretty soon.

But F.Guard/B.Guard on Protector. Yes? No?

 

[sennin]

You are right that status effects often were tough, though. Poison or Stone, particularly... getting hit by that is a real hassle, and isn't easy for me to remove. And my Refresh is still only level 6, so it doesn't even heal Terror or Stone. So yeah, I definitely try to avoid enemies that can turn characters to stone...

Therica A and B are what I use, and now that I've made it B21F, resources are never a problem again. ^ I'm rich! woohahaha >_>

as for Immunize, yeah I'm sure it'd be useful, but without a complete redo of my medic's skills, I just can't fit it in. And I don't want to retire my characters now... building them back up to where they are now would take so, so long, and I don't like grind. At all.

Rest? 10 levels takes a while to build back, but you can re-distribute your skill points. Much better than starting all over at level 1.

I mean, I have level 10 TP Regen, Attack Up (I use my medic in the front line, this is quite useful), Healer, and TP Up... for healing in battle I rely pretty heavily on Salve II. It's only level 2, though... that's another thing I'd definitely like to make higher, if I could re-distribute points...

Full TP Up and TP Regen means that despite using a lot of spells, the medic is usually one of the last to run out of TP. I also have full TP Up and TP Regen for the Alchemist... I know with a Troubadour you can cast a spell that heals TP, but without one, the Medic and Alchemist pretty much require you to build up those skills. I wish the Hexer had TP Regen too... that'd make things much easier. As it is I often have to not use skills with the Hexer in order to conserve TP, while with the Alchemist and Medic I don't have to much because their TP regenerates.

What I do have is two characters who can bind enemies' head/arms/legs. I also have level 10 Evil Eye. So for bosses, the key is either binding them (preferably in all three places so that I can then use Ecstasy and do huge damage) or successfully hitting them with Evil Eye, upon which time they are instantly rendered helpless for the rest of the match (as long as I have the TP for it, but I've got enough TP heal items to make that not a problem). It's pretty great when something happens like succeeding with Evil Eye on turn one against a Dinolich or something like that...

Manticor was pretty tricky, because it can attack the party hitting all characters and doing far more damage than I can heal (it could do like 250-300 damage to everyone and my Salve II only heals like 175 or so per character) and can also poison too, something I can't easily remove (maybe one character at a time I could? But if they're all hit, it's hopeless), and that poison does HUGE damage... so as I said, my successful victory strategy was get Boost for all characters and then hope that my turn one bind head attempt succeeded. And it did.

The final boss is kind of similar, except he can remove bindings, making him really, really hard for this party. And evidently I'd find the floor 30 boss even harder... bah. I don't want to have to level up my Defender! The only one I have is only level 30 (part of my second party), and I've never found it useful at all... I don't know, I don't like the class much. Survivalists and Troubadours are both great, and really useful, though. Ronin too... if I could I'd have one of each of those in my party too.

This is rather insightful. Most players (and I classify myself under this category) who rely on gamefaqs will have the benefit of hindsight and a consensus on what works best as the EO community has matured, but the price (and I'm paying it now >.>) is a lack of will to experiment. I have learned much from your post, and I would like to express gratitude for your efforts in painstakingly typing out this mini anti-thesis to challenge common EO wisdom.

 

[charlequin]

I'm curious, how did you survive the treks in the 4th Stratum without Immunize? Actually a better question will be, how did you defeat Fenrir and the various FOEs + Stratum bosses without Immunize?

Fenrir I beat using the Protector's F. Guard and R. Guard extensively, combined with 1st Turn -> Salve when needed. I had an Alchemist tricked out in whichever element he's weak to (fire?) and used an elemental-weapon item on my Landsknecht, so they were both doing tons of damage. (If I had had a poison Alchemist I think this would've been even easier.)

By Stratum 4 I had a Troubador with maxed Relaxing on top of a regen Medic; I could buff with Defender or the T's defense buff (neither of which are as good as Immunize, but are still fully workable) if I had to, and afford to Salve II every turn of every combat as my MPs flowed rapidly back to me.

This is rather insightful. Most players (and I classify myself under this category) who rely on gamefaqs will have the benefit of hindsight and a consensus on what works best as the EO community has matured, but the price (and I'm paying it now >.>) is a lack of will to experiment. I have learned much from your post, and I would like to express gratitude for your efforts in painstakingly typing out this mini anti-thesis to challenge common EO wisdom.

I agree. Great post, A Black Falcon.

Re: levelling dudes back up, I find retiring people back to level 1 kind of crazy (I was never one of those 200-hours-logged-on-pokemon types) but I found that it wasn't that hard at all to catch people back up from resting them down 10 levels; I think I did that with about half my party (my Alchemist and Medic were a total mess) and didn't have to spend long at all to get them back up....

 

[A Black Falcon]

Fenrir: Early in the game, right? I did that last summer, no idea what I used. DLMAT, I imagine... the T and H are really opposites. T puts positive status effects on your party members, H puts negative status effects on enemy party members. I just went from having one to the other once I unlocked it.

Therica A and B are what I use, and now that I've made it B21F, resources are never a problem again. ^ I'm rich! woohahaha >_>

Well, only a very few enemies can Stone party members. For the most part I don't have to worry about it. But I would carry some Theriaca B when I was regularly in an area with enemies that could Stone, that's for sure.

Rest? 10 levels takes a while to build back, but you can re-distribute your skill points. Much better than starting all over at level 1.

Yeah, I think I'll have to do that, sooner or later.

This is rather insightful. Most players (and I classify myself under this category) who rely on gamefaqs will have the benefit of hindsight and a consensus on what works best as the EO community has matured, but the price (and I'm paying it now >.>) is a lack of will to experiment. I have learned much from your post, and I would like to express gratitude for your efforts in painstakingly typing out this mini anti-thesis to challenge common EO wisdom.

First, question: Is there any decent way to deal with the enemies that put the whole party to sleep beyond just getting high enough level to be able to survive their attacks?

What, Evil Eye and the bindings (head/arm/leg) aren't popular? Huh. I will admit that I can see why people wouldn't like them, because of how it puts so much onto the random luck of the draw (for whether the skills succeed or not), and honestly I'd probably do more damage overall with a Survivalist or Troubadour instead of a Hexer... but I like the Hexer too much to get rid of it. And when it does help, it's really helpful... when Evil Eye works (on FOEs, there's no point on using it on average enemies) it's quite awesome. The Darkhunter is fantastic against bosses. Against normal enemies the lack of any AOE skills does hurt some, but against bosses, if you can bind them and then slam them with Ecstacy... at level 5, it does 1700-1800 damage (and that's one place where the Hexer is helpful, to speed up that process).

Anyway, I got the game shortly after it came out last May. It's not like I just started... I just stopped playing it sometimes for months at a time because I'd get frustrated with the challenge. But because of how great it is, I never can stay away forever. I'll definitely get the sequel.

Evidently, I reached the fifth stratum last October... and still haven't finished it. Oh well.

Oh yeah, and as I said, I have used FAQs. But for stuff like their listings of which enemies drop which items, or what the specific things you need are for quests that are annoyingly vague, or where you can find certain items (from collection points)... just not for party build advice. That I've done on my own. It's more fun that way... make the party you want, not the "perfect party". Even if it might be a bit more difficult a different way, why not try it anyway if you find it more fun? Because yeah, the Hexer is definitely harder to use than the Troubadour or Survivalist, and does virtually no damage worth mentioning with any skill (except Suicide, which requires a successful Evil Eye hit). And not having a Protector or Immunize must be making things harder for me, I'm sure... but looking at my Medic, I struggle to find 4 points to shift over to Refresh, much less ones to put in Immunize... and I need the Medic with Attack Up and in the front row. The damage difference is huge (like 30 damage per hit in the back row with a staff versus like 180 in the front row). The Hexer sure won't be helping there... it's frustrating that the mages have to use weapons that do virtually no damage from the row they're in, but in the front row would do four or five times more damage per hit!

Also, I know what you mean about community obessions with getting the 'perfect' build, though. The Fire Emblem community is perhaps the best example I know of there like that... but I like this party, and am used to how to play with it. I think it works pretty well overall.

Some other things...

-How do you find the space to fit in Chop, Take, and Mine? So I drag myself all the way to some take spot I need to get something from for a quest, use my 4 take points (which I really shouldn't have put there, I need them for other things...), don't get the item, and repeat? Do I create special characters with only those skills, take them along at level 1 just for their points, or something like that? I know the "create a party of survivalists to collect stuff" strategy, but I didn't do that. I'd prefer to just use one party... but particularly for classes like the Medic, you can't fit in the points, which gets quite annoying when you need specific collectibles.

-Those quests with really vague descriptions that you'd never have a hope of finishing without a guide are pretty annoying. As you progress, there are more and more of these.

-With Hexers, Sapping, Frailty, and Leaden are nice to have, because it's nice for the Hexer to have skills that you know will always hit, and they make a real difference.

-Thor+Shocker=awesome (vs. groups). One of my most-used skill combos!

-The game needs more real puzzles... compared to the classic dungeon crawlers it is trying to be like, there are very few.

 

[firex]

it just turned out that how I wanted to build my troubadour turned out to be the best way to build them (max relaxing and bravery). I did read that immunize was overpowered, so I picked it up later on for my medic... but I didn't go combat medic until after I'd retired a level 70 healer medic. I agree that a healer medic is "useless" for most of the game, but it's just as useless to make a combat medic early on when you won't unlock a single staff with good atk or anything.

 

[sennin]

It is not possible to use a Hexer until B16f, hence I'm sure Black Falcon didn't rely on a Hexer during the 1st 3 strata. The other only option is that he used Dark Hunter. I've always wanted to try out a binding party... I guess now is a good time as any.

Is there any decent way to deal with the enemies that put the whole party to sleep beyond just getting high enough level to be able to survive their attacks?

edit: Offense is the best defense. On the 5th Stratum, the sleep inducing plants spawn as 2* Muskoid and 1* Kingapis (hornet/wasp like mob) OR 1* Armoroll. I will use Flame during the preemptive round to get rid of 1 Muskoid, and use 1st Turn + Flame during round 2 on the 2nd Muskoid. Kingapis can use Venom to counter against turtling intents. The same principle applies to Clawlords, 1st Turn + Flame them before they have any chance of taking an action during a round if the Survivalist's Ambush did not kick in. 1st Turn is useful for both offense and defense, naturally if the party is dying your first order of business is to use Immunize/Defender/F. or B. Guard/SalveII.

As for status ailments, there are generally 3 ways outside of Therica to deal with them. Sleep has not yet left an impression deep enough to trigger my maniac mode, I'm assuming these general tactics will work.

i.) Medic's Refresh, which is expensive skill points wise, as it requires 8 points to heal every single ailment.

ii.) Equipment with Ailment Resist Up. Amber Ring and Toxic Gage.

iii.) Troubadour's Recovery.

If I'm not mistaken, only Pixie is capable of inflicting Petrify. Curse is a bitch too, uggh, it actually neutralizes Apollon, unless you are rich and pack 5 NectarIIs/Medic with Revive whenever you go dungeon crawling.

Now as for why gamefaqs users advocate strongly for combat medic, this is more apparent after one has access to unlimited cash during the 5th Stratum. $ can be a replacement for:

i.) Revive. Farm Sap Wine and Dry Peach to unlock Nectar II.
ii.) Thericas are free as long as you're willing to mine for materials to convert into cash. This negates the need for Refresh/Recovery.

Items have another distinct advantage over skills as anyone in the party can use them.

In other words, the skill points saved from Recovery (8), Unbind (5) and Revive (10, or 13 if you only put 3 points into Cure 3 without the intention of maxing it. Every Medic will benefit from a higher Healer stat.) can be redistributed into Atk UP and Caduceus 10. I have to disagree that combat medics are useless during the lower strata, as I've consistently used one from the start, and Caduceus out damage Protector's Smite, while normal hits out damage a Survivalist's bow strikes short of Multi-Hit and Apollon. This can hold true since Atk UP 10 is a 100% increase or 2.0 multiplier on the Medic's damage! Further, some enemies resist slash and pierce, but are weak to blunt weapons, hence a combat Medic is useful not just for Immunize + Salve II, but for contributing to the total damage output/round.

Despite my love for combat Medic, evidence to the contrary that "combat Medic is the ONLY way to go" is easily refuting it as an observation cemented in objectivity, since it was a sweeping statement in absolute terms to begin with.

-How do you find the space to fit in Chop, Take, and Mine? So I drag myself all the way to some take spot I need to get something from for a quest, use my 4 take points (which I really shouldn't have put there, I need them for other things...), don't get the item, and repeat? Do I create special characters with only those skills, take them along at level 1 just for their points, or something like that? I know the "create a party of survivalists to collect stuff" strategy, but I didn't do that. I'd prefer to just use one party... but particularly for classes like the Medic, you can't fit in the points, which gets quite annoying when you need specific collectibles.

I use a separate Survivalist designed to have 10 points each in Chop, Take and Mine. I'd bring her along with 4 others from my main party as escorts to material points and farm to unlock items I need, like Nectar II. The other 5 Survivalists are all levels 4~5, with 5~6 points in Mine each, they are the B21F money pot party. All in all, my merry band is packing 7 Survivalists.

-Those quests with really vague descriptions that you'd never have a hope of finishing without a guide are pretty annoying. As you progress, there are more and more of these.

I never bother with these after the 2nd Stratum. Avoid "Fond Memories of you", as it is a bugged quest where the quest item stays in your inventory forever, depriving you of one precious item slot. =/ The rewards are usually $, which I don't need, or items that I've already unlocked. I'd look more into these later, and unless there is some unique reward I'm likely to skip them all.

-Thor+Shocker=awesome (vs. groups). One of my most-used skill combos!

This is the reason why I rested my Landsknecht to change from 2-weapon to Chaser build. Chasers are cool skills!

Fenrir I beat using the Protector's F. Guard and R. Guard extensively, combined with 1st Turn -> Salve when needed. I had an Alchemist tricked out in whichever element he's weak to (fire?) and used an elemental-weapon item on my Landsknecht, so they were both doing tons of damage. (If I had had a poison Alchemist I think this would've been even easier.)

By Stratum 4 I had a Troubador with maxed Relaxing on top of a regen Medic; I could buff with Defender or the T's defense buff (neither of which are as good as Immunize, but are still fully workable) if I had to, and afford to Salve II every turn of every combat as my MPs flowed rapidly back to me.

Noted!

One other bitching I'd like to do is directed at the limit placed on inventory slots. There should be quest rewards to increase the baggage limit. Also, EO needs a Thief job. It SUCKS that Alchemists and Medics, 2 of the most starved for skill points jobs, are home to Scavenge, which from a roleplay perspective is totally meaningless. Where's the classic Thief, with a classic role to deal with increased drop rates? =/

 

[charlequin]

This is the reason why I rested my Landsknecht to change from 2-weapon to Chaser build. Chasers are cool skills!

The chaser abilities are really poorly described on the ability screen, so I initially assumed they were just straightforward elemental strikes and ignored them. Once I figured out what they actually did I dropped everything to go into them and make the A/L death pair of doom. So nice.

Where's the classic Thief, with a classic role to deal with increased drop rates? =/

...this is a really good question. They didn't add one in EO2, either.

-How do you find the space to fit in Chop, Take, and Mine? So I drag myself all the way to some take spot I need to get something from for a quest, use my 4 take points (which I really shouldn't have put there, I need them for other things...), don't get the item, and repeat? Do I create special characters with only those skills, take them along at level 1 just for their points, or something like that? I know the "create a party of survivalists to collect stuff" strategy, but I didn't do that. I'd prefer to just use one party... but particularly for classes like the Medic, you can't fit in the points, which gets quite annoying when you need specific collectibles.

I don't think there's any way to make effective use of the gathering spots without at least one character specced out specifically for that purpose. I myself did the five Survivalists thing, but I think you'd be alright with maybe two if you're willing to make a looooot of trips.

 

[Haly]

So what do Chaser's actually do?

 

[Pureauthor]

So what do Chaser's actually do?

Everytime someone other than the Landsknecht hits with an elemental attack (Alchemist's nukes, Ronin's slashes, Troubadour's Buffs), the L will immediately follow up with it's own elemental attack if it's the same one.

i.e.

Landsknecht activate Flame Chaser
-Others move
-Others move
-Others move
Alchemist uses Inferno
Landsknecht attacks all of the enemies that Inferno hit.

 

[Haly]

Everytime someone other than the Landsknecht hits with an elemental attack (Alchemist's nukes, Ronin's slashes, Troubadour's Buffs), the L will immediately follow up with it's own elemental attack if it's the same one.

i.e.

Landsknecht activate Flame Chaser
-Others move
-Others move
-Others move
Alchemist uses Inferno
Landsknecht attacks all of the enemies that Inferno hit.

Wat.

Okay that's it, I know what my EO2 party will look like now.

 

[Mash]

I've just started playing this again and I'm a total nooby so forgive such a stupid question but if I use something like shelter does this last the entire fight or only for the next turn?

 

[Pureauthor]

I've just started playing this again and I'm a total nooby so forgive such a stupid question but if I use something like shelter does this last the entire fight or only for the next turn?

Troubadour buffs last the match. Everyone else's buffs last 5 turns.