• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Eurogamer 360 vs PS3-Face: Round 15

DCharlie said:
then again, KZ2 being incredible to you still doesn't change the fact that almost all X360 multiplatform games are superior to PS3 games! ;)
Neither is it (or will it be) the silver bullet game that cements the PS3's superiority over the X360 :)

It shows that these flaws that exist in these Multiplatform games, don't exist in it. So what does that say? That it can be done, if by competent devs.

And usually, how it goes, the most impressive game at that given time, usually give an edge to perception of the system. Killzone 2 is that impressive. Just like everyone saying zomg the power of the 360 is greater because of gears. Times have changed though. Especially when they're against the xboat. ;)
 
DCharlie said:
PS3 1st party games have tended to be better than X360 1st party games technically (but some are taking longer to "bake")

Thats a good point 360 1st party games seem to come out pretty much on time (and in the hoiday frame time where they need to be), who knows what they would have been like if developers were given a much longer time frame or allowed to do cut down versions like Wipeout/ War Hawk/GT5 etc
 
KernelPanic said:
360

http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/FO3360.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://www3.telus.net/public/dhwag/FO3PS3.jpg[IMG]

That hard to see the difference there ?[/QUOTE]

yeah the shadows on the bottom pic look like a 2600 game. what do i win?
 
M°°nblade said:
Wow I didn't know there was a texture quality difference in FO3 in favor of the PS3 version. Used to be the other way around.
The consensus at B3D (where those off-screen pics were yanked), seems to be that there isn't a quality difference in textures between versions at all, but that the PS3 contains more of a specularity resolve, which is quite noticeable and looks very nice in certain shots (like the radroach pic).

When you factor in the difference in AA and normal mapping between the two, grandmaster had a good comparison -

360
360003wq8.jpg


PS3
ps3003bo1.jpg
 
J-Rzez said:
It shows that these flaws that exist in these Multiplatform games, don't exist in it. So what does that say? That it can be done, if by competent devs.

And usually, how it goes, the most impressive game at that given time, usually give an edge to perception of the system. Killzone 2 is that impressive. Just like everyone saying zomg the power of the 360 is greater because of gears. Times have changed though. Especially when they're against the xboat. ;)
KZ2 is a truly breathtaking looking game, but it's also had an insane amount of time and money, and developing talent poured into it. I can't think of a single game in the 360's library that's been handed such a blank check. Even Gears was built on an existing engine, though it was made by the same people who put that engine together.
 
GreekWolf said:
The consensus at B3D (where those off-screen pics were yanked), seems to be that there isn't a quality difference in textures between versions at all, but that the PS3 contain more of a specularity resolve (hence, glossy ant shot).

I had a good chuckle at poor okrim (aka assurdum) over there trying to convince everyone that the PS3 is sporting higher resolution textures, and being shot down every time.
Hmm. So basically the texture resolution in both versions is the same but there are some specularity problems in the x360 version which makes the textures look blurry when gloss is applied. That sucks.

Why is the x360 screenshot so dark? Whoever tried to compare those screenshots should have adjusted the brightness.
But the AA difference is clear when you look at the door frame.

Aaron said:
KZ2 is a truly breathtaking looking game, but it's also had an insane amount of time and money, and developing talent poured into it.
And on the other side you have multiplatform games with limited time and money split in favor of the system with the largest install base.
 
Aaron said:
KZ2 is a truly breathtaking looking game, but it's also had an insane amount of time and money, and developing talent poured into it. I can't think of a single game in the 360's library that's been handed such a blank check. Even Gears was built on an existing engine, though it was made by the same people who put that engine together.

That's not Killzone's fault. Like I said earlier, I wish MS invested more money into the first-party stables, instead of exclusive launch windows on DLC and what have you. Sony put the money in, and it shows.
 
Aaron said:
KZ2 is a truly breathtaking looking game, but it's also had an insane amount of time and money, and developing talent poured into it. I can't think of a single game in the 360's library that's been handed such a blank check. Even Gears was built on an existing engine, though it was made by the same people who put that engine together.
Gear of war is somehwhat similar. Gears of war IS unreal engine 3 . The 1st time it was demoed it was with Gow monsters (locust) , gow setups (the town, the crows) . Gow Is UE3 and as such has been developped for like 3/4 years with unlimited $$
 
J-Rzez said:
That's not Killzone's fault. Like I said earlier, I wish MS invested more money into the first-party stables, instead of exclusive launch windows on DLC and what have you. Sony put the money in, and it shows.

They have put the money in KZ2 because they have to due to "that trailer" whether they will fund a game to the same extent again is debatable
 
f@luS said:
Gear of war is somehwhat similar. Gears of war IS unreal engine 3 . The 1st time it was demoed it was with Gow monsters (locust) , gow setups (the town, the crows) . Gow Is UE3 and as such has been developped for like 3/4 years with unlimited $$
Still, UE3 was developed as being middleware to sell to other devs. Guerilla doesn't have to bother with that. And Epic worked on 3 plattforms (PS3, PC, 360) with the UE3, so they had to do some porting.

And still, we are now seeing the second title of the Gears franchise, looking even better, while Killzone 2 became a 2009 title in early 2008...
 
f@luS said:
Gear of war is somehwhat similar. Gears of war IS unreal engine 3 . The 1st time it was demoed it was with Gow monsters (locust) , gow setups (the town, the crows) . Gow Is UE3 and as such has been developped for like 3/4 years with unlimited $$

Unlimited? I doubt it

UE3 has always been developed with the idea that the tools were to be sold on and therefore will never be as hard coded and specific as it could have been
 
J-Rzez said:
That's not Killzone's fault. Like I said earlier, I wish MS invested more money into the first-party stables, instead of exclusive launch windows on DLC and what have you. Sony put the money in, and it shows.
I agree it's not KZ2's problem, but I'd rather it be raised as a standard for games in general, and not some console specific benchmark. Beyond the cost, it shows what you can make if you really put the time and effort into refining something, and that getting results on that level really does take time and effort. The main problem with MS in regards to the 360 is they're very impatient for results, and I think that's clear in every move they make, which includes quite a few wrong ones. Sony is a little (lot) more long term.
 
mr_bishiuk said:
They have put the money in KZ2 because they have to due to "that trailer" whether they will fund a game to the same extent again is debatable

That is true they have to make sure the game delivers, though, on the other hand, they have talented dev teams all around that are known for high quality output. Polyphony, Ico, ND, GG, their various locationally named teams.

This is one area I wish MS would catch up with.
 
Aaron said:
I agree it's not KZ2's problem, but I'd rather it be raised as a standard for games in general, and not some console specific benchmark. Beyond the cost, it shows what you can make if you really put the time and effort into refining something, and that getting results on that level really does take time and effort. The main problem with MS in regards to the 360 is they're very impatient for results, and I think that's clear in every move they make, which includes quite a few wrong ones. Sony is a little (lot) more long term.

It seems that Microsoft are very focused on the holiday periods as they know that's where the sales are, and where the games can make the maximum difference to hardware sales. If KZ2 is as spectacular as people are saying then it could have made a big difference to how this Christmas hardware sales worked out. Coming out in February or whatever will have a negligible effect imo.
 
J-Rzez said:
That is true they have to make sure the game delivers, though, on the other hand, they have talented dev teams all around that are known for high quality output. Polyphony, Ico, ND, GG, their various locationally named teams.

This is one area I wish MS would catch up with.

But those teams have come up with very little so far, from a business perspective maybe MS have it right, letting 3rd parties pitch titles to them and picking the best of the bunch.

It at least seems to encourage the games to come out on time as the devs have more of a vested interest.

I think its safe to say that MS strategy has worked out the best so far, particularly in terms of games sales.
 
Paracelsus said:
Metal Gear Solid 4 came out in June.
How much effect that had on hardware sales is still up for debate... given in the US it coincided with the return of a sought after machine with PS2 BC. It certainly did boost hardware sales in Japan, but it didn't seem to do much in Europe.
 
Paracelsus said:
Metal Gear Solid 4 came out in June.

MGS4 is a one off game, and what was the sales gap in that month? 200k?

If MGS4 and KZ2 had come out in the same period over the holiday it could have meant millions of sales and encouraged people to choose PS3 over 360.
 
I think it's been about 5 pages since anyone even mentioned any of the games compared in the actual article.

Way to go, GAF.
 
mr_bishiuk said:
MGS4 is a one off game, and what was the sales gap in that month? 200k?

If MGS4 and KZ2 had come out in the same period over the holiday it could have meant millions of sales and encouraged people to choose PS3 over 360.
Halo 3 was a one off game and what was the sales gap in that month?
300k?

With so many end 2008 releases, I doubt another exclusive in the holiday would have made much of a difference for the PS3, it will only dilute the software sales.
Last year, when the PS3 had a hardware boost after the pricedrop, people mainly bought CoD4 and Assasin's creed. Not uncharted, Heavenly sword or Ratchet.
 
M°°nblade said:
Halo 3 was a one off game and what was the sales gap in that month?
300k?

With so many end 2008 releases, I doubt another exclusive in the holiday would have made much of a difference for the PS3, it will only dilute the software sales.
Last year, when the PS3 had a hardware boost after the pricedrop, people mainly bought CoD4 and Assasin's creed. Not uncharted, Heavenly sword or Ratchet.

I think to get more hardcore gamers to buy a PS3 if they already have a 360 they need multiple titles in a short period of time, because currently the big titles that might make people invest in a PS3 are too spread out. There needs to be like a perfect storm too push people over the edge in my view.
 
TTP said:
Besides, PS3 version has clearly an edge on the sound side (an aspect EG NEVER mentions in any comparison like it doesn't matter). And it supports DTS as well, for major clarity. It's almost night and day with the 360 version.
Enlighten me. Is the "night and day" coming from DTS vs DD? Or is there something else?
 
mr_bishiuk said:
I think to get more hardcore gamers to buy a PS3 if they already have a 360 they need multiple titles in a short period of time, because currently the big titles that might make people invest in a PS3 are too spread out. There needs to be like a perfect storm too push people over the edge in my view.

Killzone 2 can do that. I'm not even joking. I hated the first one with a passion, dubbing it a halo killer when it most certainly wasn't even close. This iteration though, this isn't a Halo killer, it just flat out kills everything else out there. It is that good. And that's just from MP, as that's all I got to play obviously.

You will be amazed how this game looks, runs, and plays. You'll wonder how they pulled it off when other shooters that hit the PS3 can't check all the boxes visually that this game does. And that's why I don't think you can declare supremacy from the MP titles like some people like to say. And there's a reason why you won't see these "PS3 can't do this visually, or.." anymore, and most certainly when it hits. It'll just make them look like fools. If this game scores nothing other than 10's visually, you can write off that site/mag as anything respectable.
 
J-Rzez said:
Killzone 2 can do that. I'm not even joking. I hated the first one with a passion, dubbing it a halo killer when it most certainly wasn't even close. This iteration though, this isn't a Halo killer, it just flat out kills everything else out there. It is that good. And that's just from MP, as that's all I got to play obviously.

You will be amazed how this game looks, runs, and plays. You'll wonder how they pulled it off when other shooters that hit the PS3 can't check all the boxes visually that this game does. And that's why I don't think you can declare supremacy from the MP titles like some people like to say. And there's a reason why you won't see these "PS3 can't do this visually, or.." anymore, and most certainly when it hits. It'll just make them look like fools. If this game scores nothing other than 10's visually, you can write off that site/mag as anything respectable.

Wow you sure love Killzone!!
 
mr_bishiuk said:
I think to get more hardcore gamers to buy a PS3 if they already have a 360 they need multiple titles in a short period of time, because currently the big titles that might make people invest in a PS3 are too spread out. There needs to be like a perfect storm too push people over the edge in my view.

I agree for once. :p

I don't get this spread out the big titles mentality. It's so pointles if you want to expand a console user base.

If I hear about 3 "big" games coming out in the same time frame (let's say a month) it's a much bigger chance that I will pick that console up.
I won't be disappointed if one of them suck. I can just trade it in for one of those other titles.

If a person is just mildly interested in the shooter coming out he can pick it up for that other game he heard about on a TV commercial. Plus look into that shooter at a later time. A majority can't afford all titles coming out.

The 3 games could be LBP, MS2, R2.

or Banjo, Gears 2, Fable II also fits.
 
J-Rzez said:
Killzone 2 can do that. I'm not even joking. I hated the first one with a passion, dubbing it a halo killer when it most certainly wasn't even close. This iteration though, this isn't a Halo killer, it just flat out kills everything else out there. It is that good. And that's just from MP, as that's all I got to play obviously.

You will be amazed how this game looks, runs, and plays. You'll wonder how they pulled it off when other shooters that hit the PS3 can't check all the boxes visually that this game does. And that's why I don't think you can declare supremacy from the MP titles like some people like to say. And there's a reason why you won't see these "PS3 can't do this visually, or.." anymore, and most certainly when it hits. It'll just make them look like fools. If this game scores nothing other than 10's visually, you can write off that site/mag as anything respectable.

shit ... must .. prevent increasing expectations .. aaaghh
 
antiloop said:
I agree for once. :p

I don't get this spread out the big titles mentality. It's so pointles if you want to expand a console user base.

If I hear about 3 "big" games coming out in the same time frame (let's say a month) it's a much bigger chance that I will pick that console up.
I won't be disappointed if one of them suck. I can just trade it in for one of those other titles.

If a person is just mildly interested in the shooter coming out he can pick it up for that other game he heard about on a TV commercial. Plus look into that shooter at a later time. A majority can't afford all titles coming out.

The 3 games could be LBP, MS2, R2.

or Banjo, Gears 2, Fable II also fits.

Yer if you have one title out its easy for the opposition to defend, simply bring out something yourself to keep your install base interested in and money spent on.
 
did i miss the part where killzone 2 does something new? other than being very very pretty, its standard generic FPS, having said that, its one of the very few ps3 games i will get.
 
mr_bishiuk said:
But those teams have come up with very little so far, from a business perspective maybe MS have it right, letting 3rd parties pitch titles to them and picking the best of the bunch.

It at least seems to encourage the games to come out on time as the devs have more of a vested interest.

I think its safe to say that MS strategy has worked out the best so far, particularly in terms of games sales.

Why do you seem far more concerned with sales than quality gaming? I get the argument that more sales = more money = more investment but at this point both HD consoles can support the kind of big budget extravaganza on the scale of KZ2 so the point seems kind of moot.

Oh, and shipping a game before it's finished to maximise sales is bullshit. Ship Trico when it's finished, not when the marketing department wants to.
 
mr_bishiuk said:
Wow you sure love Killzone!!

It's still kinda true though, the game is THAT good (and that just from the beta :P)
I usually don't like console shooters because I can't have my trusty mouse and keyboard but when I first had the beta few weeks ago, I played it every single day and I really enjoyed it so...

I guess I'm not the only one :D
 
freethought said:
Why do you seem far more concerned with sales than quality gaming? I get the argument that more sales = more money = more investment but at this point both HD consoles can support the kind of big budget extravaganza on the scale of KZ2 so the point seems kind of moot.

Oh, and shipping a game before it's finished to maximise sales is bullshit. Ship Trico when it's finished, not when the marketing department wants to.

I am talking about it from a Sony/industry point of view rather than a gamer's.

And whats wrong with holding back a first party game or timing it right inorder that it comes out at the most beneficial time? If KZ2 doesn't lead to a dramatic rise in hardware sales for Sony I doubt we'll see another one on quite the same scale.
 
mr_bishiuk said:
who knows what they would have been like if developers were given a much longer time frame or allowed to do cut down versions like Wipeout/ War Hawk/GT5 etc


come on man, can't you and DCHarlie give it a break for one day.
 
DCharlie said:
i remember days when minor differences like sparks were the absolute proof of one machines 3rd party supremacy. ;)

I pressume they are more important that, say, frame rate , texture quality, etc. given these differences aren't worth discussing! ;)

we just need to just call it and have done :

at the moment, X360 third party games are usually better than the PS3 versions.
PS3 1st party games have tended to be better than X360 1st party games technically (but some are taking longer to "bake")
You remember Burnout 3 and Burnout Revenge, not the last generation as a whole. Those games were anomalies. It was VERY uncommon for XBOX and PS2 multiplatform games to appear as close as those two games did.

The average difference between an XBOX multiplatform releases and the PS2/GC versions of the same game was HUGE. Much larger than any of the differences we see today. What has made comparisons so "popular" between the 360 and PS3 is simply the fact that the games are so damn close. The differences between them are not easy to pick out at first glance (in most cases) and require a new found level of scrutiny to determine. Multiplatform releases have never been as good as they are this generation.

Just think back to previous console cycles...

When talking SNES versus Megadrive, for instance, each machine had their own unique characteristics. The SNES could display 256 simultaneous colors while the Megadrive was limited to 64 colors. This alone made a huge difference in how the visuals appeared on screen. Then you have to consider the difference in sound quality. Of course, the Megadrive had a bit of an advantage with its faster CPU. Comparisons made today would have made no sense in the context of these machines as the differences between multiplatform releases could be spotted immediately.

The same exists when talking about PSX, Saturn, and N64 comparisons. The differences between multiplatform games were generally pretty significant to the point where, again, you could tell which was which from a simple glance. People praised RE2 on the N64 (which was impressive for its day), yet in reality, it would be considered a garbage port by todays standards. The capabilities of the machines were so drastically different that you could never offer the same experience across all three machines. The absolute WORST 360 to PS3 ports are still light years beyond even the best attempts during this generation. You would always end up sacrificing something significant due to the radically different hardware.

Last gen was as I said above. Each machine had a very different architecture. The PS2 simply wasn't capable of the techniques common in XBOX titles (shaders, for instance). Even games designed initially for the PS2 had a tendency to fare much better on the XBOX. In the rare instances where games were ported from the XBOX to the PS2 things were even worse. Splinter Cell anyone? How about Wreckless?! Ouch.

Things have never been better for multiplatform releases. Your sparks example suggests that you have forgotten just how far we've really come. Very few multiplatform games were as close as those released by Criterion and, even then, they were still limiting themselves by focusing on the PS2. It's just that the game LOOKED good enough that it didn't matter. Had they designed the game with the XBOX in mind I doubt a PS2 release could have compared.

The difference in textures, framerate, and image quality of modern multiplatform games wouldn't even REGISTER by previous generation standards.

Side note: Would people stop bringing up f*cking Killzone 2?! At the very least, those hyping it are driving more people that DISLIKE the game. It will likely be a decent game in the end, but all of this hype will drive people to slam the game at every turn. Just look at Uncharted. If you were to go by the forums, you'd swear that game was one of the worst games released this generation. There is this HUGE backlash against games that receive hype.
 
mr_bishiuk said:


You're the one that's stating the PS3 is in this perfect environment where the developers have got so much time and money and no pressures to create their games, and if Microsoft had the sort of money (LOL) or time they would be doing so much better. Give me a break, like the developers of Warhawk were happy when the single player campaign got cut out, like Sony aren't losing money from delaying KZ2 over the Christmas period, and Sony Liverpool took a massive risk with Wipeout HD and it was a success and you're calling it a "cut down" version when it's more feature packed then most full-price titles.


You're the one (and DCHarlie, you 2 seem to be on the same crusade) crying a river for poor Microsoft. They're both greedy-mega-powerful-corporations and for some reason you're picking the side that's releasing games unfinished, not putting money into first party development, not producing feature rich downloadable titles, and nickel and diming the consumer for every cent.
 
travisbickle said:
You're the one that's stating the PS3 is in this perfect environment where the developers have got so much time and money and no pressures to create their games, and if Microsoft had the sort of money (LOL) or time they would be doing so much better. Give me a break, like the developers of Warhawk were happy when the single player campaign got cut out, like Sony aren't losing money from delaying KZ2 over the Christmas period, and Sony Liverpool took a massive risk with Wipeout HD and it was a success and you're calling it a "cut down" version when it's more feature packed then most full-price titles.


You're the one (and DCHarlie, you 2 seem to be on the same crusade) crying a river for poor Microsoft. They're both greedy-mega-powerful-corporations and for some reason you're picking the side that's releasing games unfinished, not putting money into first party development, not producing feature rich downloadable titles, and nickel and diming the consumer for every cent.

eh? As far as I can see its Sony releasing the unfinished games, if Wipeout HD had been a fully fleshed out product, on store shelves and therefore backable on TV it could have made a difference for example. I also dont see anyone crying a river for Microsoft! Really you should read the thread before making accusations, in that point as a part of a wider discussion that was saying that it might be better for Sony to get games out simultaneously at key times nothing more. IF MS can do it why not Sony?
 
acm2000 said:
did i miss the part where killzone 2 does something new? other than being very very pretty, its standard generic FPS, having said that, its one of the very few ps3 games i will get.

People don't like FPS games anymore?
 
Top Bottom