Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Lol seriously, this is getting embarrassing. Comparing an out-of-the-box console with a PC is hilarious.
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[Eurogamer\DF] Orbis Unmasked: what to expect from the next-gen PlayStation.
- Thread starter Saty
- Start date
Lol seriously, this is getting embarrassing. Comparing an out-of-the-box console with a PC is hilarious.
Auto_aim1
MeisaMcCaffrey
I dunno why they ditched the curves, but yeah, it does look good.
New consoles are a lot closer to a standard PC architecture than previous consoles (yes, including the 360).The only exception would be the original Xbox. I think that was his original point.
It's not quite apples to apples, but it's approaching that in many aspects of their design.
Agent Ironside
Member
It is sigh worthy. I cry evry tiem.
You need an Hd display of some sort with either a pc or a console and they would work the same with either. PCs hook up to HDMI ports on current TVs.
All I am doing is looking at these current rumored specs. I have no way of knowing whether or not these specs are true. But I am telling you that if they are, that $600 PC build I listed would be considerably more powerful.
That is my only point. If these specs are true they are about what a low to mid tier current PC build would do. They aren't some crazy alien tech that is mind blowing and changes the game. They are a cheap PC current build, that comes pre-bult that fits under your tv for maybe around $400-$500. That is no small feat, but it also isnt anything too amazing.
That setup is pretty low end and not very future proof. For one, that case looks like a flimsy piece of shit. It also doesn't have any of the modern features you'd expect from a modern case, like USB 3.0 or eSATA. For two, that power supply is awfully weak and you'd be hard pressed to upgrade with it futher in the generation and with such a setup I guarantee you'd need upgrades later on. The motherboard is also lacking in features like USB 3.0 and PCIe 3.0 meaning you'll be gimping yourself in a few years. And if you're going Sandy Bridge and not getting at least 3570k you're doing it wrong.
Honestly that setup would just be a headache a few years into next generation, you'd have to throw the whole thing out and build from the ground up for good performance.
Brad Grenz
Member
In all likelihood I'm guessing Orbis and Durango will only pack in an HDMI. We're at the point where those are cheaper to include than analog cables. If you still need composite, and don't have any PS1, PS2, or PS3 analog cables lying around you can buy them for $15 or whatever.
That said, HDMI cables cost a dollar on eBay, so we're well passed the time where anyone should be complaining about them not being included.
And? You expect console makers to take a bath on cutting edge pc parts? Of course you can build a similar pc for around the same, you are completely missing the point of consoles like the hundreds of other people that think they are making some profound realization with this argument. We dont even know what controller they are making for these systems yet but that is besides the point. People buy consoles for the simple, closed ecosystem at a reaonable price WITH exclusive games they dont have to worry about for 5+ years.
Boss Man
Member
Right, the PS4 will not be as powerful as a high-end PC. I think everyone has known that since 2009. The point that others are trying to make is that a PS4 is not a PC, and it won't work the same way either. For instance the machine you posted, while very probably more technically powerful than the PS4 will be, probably won't be able to reasonably keep up with PC ports of PS4 games by 2015.
If you're going to build a PC, spend the money to do it right. From a 'power' perspective, you'll get to play a ton of console games (with better performance), and you'll get a game every now and then that excludes and slightly exceeds them. That's the reality of it, IMHO. It has more to do with the nature of game development than specs. The PC scene also has a ton of indie stuff going on right now, not to mention Steam which represents a huge paradigm shift. But it's just not a console, they aren't the same things.
oversitting
Banned
Actually his choices are pretty good for something build and forget to play games for a couple of years. The power supply is enough for what he needs and the extra features you listed don't improve performance.
I just feel now is a bad time to build a PC to play next gen games.
Who builds a PC just to play games for a couple years? When you build a PC it's for the long haul.
grimshawish
Banned
Oh dear. We were having such fun too.
Everyone is being a bit insecure and silly.
For someone buying a new PC they would save money if they went gaming over console. The base rate of the PC has been paid for.
But the console is best if you don't want to merge those two worlds.
Though all these arguments should accept a PC is upgradable and B/C, a console isn't.
Preferences. What are they?
Let's leave the meltdowns for E3.
Everyone is being a bit insecure and silly.
For someone buying a new PC they would save money if they went gaming over console. The base rate of the PC has been paid for.
But the console is best if you don't want to merge those two worlds.
Though all these arguments should accept a PC is upgradable and B/C, a console isn't.
Preferences. What are they?
Let's leave the meltdowns for E3.
oversitting
Banned
Well he is trying to build it for cheap and appeal to a console person. Buy a PC, play games with it for a couple of years, get a new one. I see a lot of people do this with laptops.
But PCs are poorly optimized and utilized compared to consoles so it would take maybe twice as more powerful hardware to achieve the results that are possible with consoles.
Even if PS4 has something only comparable to 7850 in GPU, but in a PC environment, it may take more than 680 to achieve same results with identical IQ.
Not if these specs are true and we living with them for a good while. Like I said, that system woudl be more powerful than what those Orbis specs are by a considerable margin.
Could you give me some research to back up this "twice as powerful" statistic? I'm not being facetious, either.
I'm also not really exagerating the difference. The current top of the line AMD processor often gets substantially lower performance than that i5 I posted in that build. We are talking as much as 30-50 frames per second worse performance And, as has been stated, these AMD chips are not even that powerful. They are more improved mobile varities, apparently. Here is a comparison chart showing variouis game and application performances of the best AMD processors versus current Intel i5s.
The following is a very optimistic comparison of what that rumored AMD processor versus that i5 in the build I listed would compare at since this is a top of the line non-moble AMD currently:
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/434?vs=288
If you think "console optimization" makes up that difference, I guess that is maybe possible, but that's a hell of a lot of optimization fairy dust that is required.
grimshawish
Banned
Durango will be easy to replicate on PC, piss easy.
Or is is a different fish. Expect it'll be a good investment, but who knows how long the next gen will last :/
Or is is a different fish. Expect it'll be a good investment, but who knows how long the next gen will last :/
There is still a possibility that PS4 may have some extra APUs along with 8-core Jaguar processor to offload some FPU heavy operations. Also, typical PCs and consoles have very different in terms of CPU-GPU interconnect and memory architecture, so direct comparison really can't apply here.
I just threw the line that it may take twice as more powerful PC to run the same IQ as in consoles because PCs are never optimized and utilized in the way the consoles are.
oversitting
Banned
the optimizations will make up that and more. 300+% improvements are possible. And if you didn't realize.
oversitting
Banned
won't really work out as it is impossible to clock the CPUs that high. They are designed to operate at ~2ghz at best. Best you can do is put in more cores. You can probably fit 16 jaguar cores into a 80W cpu but thats really not something many people would buy.
Any console>PC port is going to have higher requirements than the specs on the console by a good or sometimes large margin.
the optimizations will make up that and more. 300+% improvements are possible. And if you didn't realize.
this is what you get when you try to run 360 games with comparable hardware. Thats running the game at lower than 360 settings and not even hitting 30fps.
Eurogamer's Digital Foundry comparison:
The article does talk about the optimization tricks they used due to coding to hardware, but I don't think it is fair to say the PC version of Metro is identical.
I'm curious too. I'm just trying to going by a fairly optimistic view of what we currently know about AMD's tech. There are a lot of people in this thread throwing out suspicious claims about "optimization" with numbers pulled seemingly out of thin air. "Twice" the optimization, "300%!"etc.
Mikey Jr.
Member
I think it will probably be about the same as this gen, or maybe even longer.
With the rate at which mobile technology is improving i'm doubting that, realistically
"console optimization" makes a hell of a difference; how else do you think PS3, a console that has 512MB combined memory with an nVidia 7900-architecture GPU, is able to churn out games like Uncharted 3/GoW3/Killzone 2?
Depends on how much modification AMD did with those Jaguar cores. They may beef up the FPU units close to Trinity or cut down the FPU and add extra CUs instead.
pieatorium
Member
less than half the framerate and less than half the resolution aswell as less effects like AA is not really a compareable situation.
dragonelite
Member
Jep
I have been optimizing a convolution algorithm for image processing in openCL for 3 months right now. I went from a 30 times speed up vs a sequential cpu single threaded cpu implementation. To a 160 times speed up factor on my own when AMD compiler didn't fucked up the result when compiler optimization was on in openCL i got a 200 times speed up factor.
I probably could get even better result but then i have to work through the AMD programmers guide again or use some bit voodoo so i can eliminate a branch.
So yes fixed hardware and time can help you optimize a shit load. Especially if documentation is good like AMD openCL programmers guide. Wish i had some more time to dive into the more hardware specific parts. Shame all this work will probably not be integrated was more a research internship on how to optimize vision algorithms in openCL.
I would say it has an awful lot to do with the financial resources of the companies making the games.
I believe all three of those games also ran at 30 frames per second at 720p with some resources even rendered below that resolution.
My only point is that consoles can do much more with much less.
pieatorium
Member
Your comparison doesn't make that point very well, they are doing alot less with alot less in that situation.
shinra-bansho
Member
Hmm, not sure if the idea has been floated, but wouldn't third parties essentially just target the lowest common denominator for both Orbis and Durango i.e.
- 8 Jaguar cores @ 1.6 Ghz
- 1.2 TFLOPS
- 3.5 GB RAM
Phonomezer
Banned
It's tiresome, and it's staunch supporters even more so. They're obviously more interested in how many people use Steam rather than actual PC gaming, if the endless updates on concurrent users are any indication.
In what way in that situation is the PS3 doing a lot less? Now you're just being blatantly incorrect.
Edit: When I say "a lot more" I mean in context with its specs, not compared to PC's offerings.
Gemüsepizza
Member
The thing is devs can use the rumored power of the PS4 to easily improve things like image quality and framerate, and if the PS4 really has a GPU with 50% more processing power and RAM with 3x times the speed, than this could be quite a significant improvement. A lot more than the differences between Xbox 360 and PS3.
pieatorium
Member
Sorry I misread as amd 7900, still I was running games like Assasins Creed at 720p on my geforce 7900 series PC quite easily.
That game is poorly optimized on consoles so that should help his point about optimization.
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
Gemüsepizza;46694505 said:
Yeah, I'm thinking what it will amount to is basically PS4 games running at 60 fps and Durango games running at 30 fps.
Again, if rumored specs are true...the gap is far wider than it was this gen.
Or more like the same with the same. Crysis ran at around 32fps on a 7900 at slightly higher than 720p at medium settings. Keep in mind that is an open world game that is pretty damn impressive even today.
http://www.techspot.com/article/73-crysis-performance/page3.html
Here is Skyrim running on a 7900:
http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=IBhk_bPan6U&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DIBhk_bPan6U
James Sawyer Ford
Gold Member
https://twitter.com/ManuelStanislao/status/293005170336473088
Are members of the press going to be under NDA or will we hear impressions from whatever Sony shows off?
Are members of the press going to be under NDA or will we hear impressions from whatever Sony shows off?
But there are so many unknowns in Durango specs so I am not going to make any judgement until there are more credible leaks.
Only if rumored specs are true, then well..
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
But wasn't the RSX based of the GTX 7800?
Some games are poorly optimized on PC (Saints Row 2), some are poorly optimized on consoles. That really doesn't do much to forward the argument that a mobile AMD processor when stuck inside a console box is suddenly going to perform as well as an i5 because "optimization!"
Not even close to being the same considering that the PS3 uses 512MB combined memory for both the system AND the GPU while the specs there have 2GB of system RAM and the 7900 has 512/256MB of GPU RAM.
Edit: I think it's only fair that I mention that the PS3 has faster system memory thanks to XDR, though.