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[Eurogamer] Remedy on life after Xbox exclusivity

Circinus

Member
Didn't Insomniac go with MS for SO since they would've let 'em keep the IP?

Yes, but clearly they have changed their strategy now. (edit: I actually meant to refer to Microsoft here [meaning they're only publishing games of IP's they own / requiring new IP to be in MS' hands], but I guess it could be somewhat applicable to Insomniac as well)


I didn't know Sony owns Death Stranding....?

Are my PC version dreams and hopes dead now?

Don't know, but I don't think it's unlikely to think SIE made an exception for Kojima to have a PC version of Death Strandnig as well in the publishing deal if Kojima wanted a PC version too.
 

Bioshocker

Member
Good read. Hoping for P7 to be something interesting. We need more third person action games.

I watched that Alan Wake 2 demo again, and boy I just want to play it!
 

Alienfan

Member
So Microsoft wanted to make Alan Wake 2 on the condition they would get the Alan Wake rights, Remedy didn't want to give Alan Wake to them for whatever reason. Now we'll probably never see Alan Wake 2 because outside of Microsoft, who would fund the sequel to a poor selling Xbox exclusive from 2010. That's very sad to read :(
 

Unknown?

Member
i hope xbox fans don't crucify me for saying this but it seems to be...

so far this gen, very few Xbox one exclusive has been gaining traction...(excluding the always reliable Forza, also KI seems pretty good). Even Halo and Gears has been losing momentum. Ori is certainly a 'sleeper' hit but it's not something that will cause brain to melt when a sequel is announced on the E3 stage. Despite the quality of sunset overdrive & Quantum Break, they seems to be duds from a sales standpoint. Recore seems to be a mistake. What else am i missing?
Even Forza has lost steam. It sold much better on 360.
 

FingerBang

Member
As a huge fan of Max Payne 1 and 2 I think Remedy has gone down since. Alan Wake disappointed me for being much different from what they promised at first, but I enjoyed it a lot anyways. Quantum Break is just... okay, I guess?

The gameplay has some interesting idea but it ends up being repetitive after just a few hours. The "episodes" between the chapters must be the stupidest thing anyone has ever done to make a game last longer.
 
i don't know...The playstation fanbase definitely seems to be more incline to support Single player games than Xbox fanbase (based on non-empirical evidence).....so actually, it does seems to worth a try.

The game literally got removed off of steam this month due to music license issues. I don't see a PS4 version coming out anytime soon.
 
I prefer when developers own their IPs. At least there is hope for an Alan Wake 2 eventually but Quantum Break is just dead.

Too bad for them that the whole TV experiment didn't work but I rather have the game we end up with instead of an episodic one.
 

dr_rus

Member
I didn't know Sony owns Death Stranding....?

Are my PC version dreams and hopes dead now?

Not completely dead yet as they've mentioned it coming to PC earlier but it's almost 100% that the game will launch on PS4 first and PC version will come much much later - if it even will.
 

Hesh

Member
Of course it is - no publisher is going to hand over like $40 million for an IP they don't own and as a sequel to a game that was a flop.

Alan Wake wasn't a flop, the PC version turned a profit after only 48 hours after release. The biggest hurdle for a sequel would likely be music rights, unfortunately. If Remedy can work some magic then definitely one of the smaller publishers in the world that are trying to break through the glass ceiling to the upper echelon (such as 505 Games, Deep Silver, CI Games, Tripwire Interactive, and others) would partner up to publish the game. I'm thinking that Remedy would be best to do a Kickstarter for Alan Wake early next year to gauge interest, and then use that raised capital to woo a smaller publisher to help pay marketing and publish the physical release.
 

Drencrom

Member
I didn't know Sony owns Death Stranding....?

Are my PC version dreams and hopes dead now?

With Guerilla Games sharing their game engine with Kojima Productions and that they've said that they are working together on it I'm pretty sure the PC version isn't happening anymore.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
i hope xbox fans don't crucify me for saying this but it seems to be...

so far this gen, very few Xbox one exclusive has been gaining traction...(excluding the always reliable Forza, also KI seems pretty good). Even Halo and Gears has been losing momentum. Ori is certainly a 'sleeper' hit but it's not something that will cause brain to melt when a sequel is announced on the E3 stage. Despite the quality of sunset overdrive & Quantum Break, they seems to be duds from a sales standpoint. Recore seems to be a mistake. What else am i missing?

MS just has less first party output, which was made up by third party and indie exclusives. They've lost out on both while Halo and Gears have fallen off from their glory days. They've whiffed on new ips and exclusives so far, while Sony hasn't. Stuff like Alan wake and sunset overdrive just didn't click with people. Sony is even snatching marketing deals left and right.

I'm still Xbox first because I have been for generations, and it's a forza box for me really.
 
Echoes of Titanfall signing the Xbox exclusivity clause.

Xbox One exclusivity seems to have been the wrong horse to bet on.....

Titanfall was successful, could it have sold more on other platforms? Probably, but at the time it was basically among the best selling games exclusives on both platforms.
 
Echoes of Titanfall signing the Xbox exclusivity clause.

Xbox One exclusivity seems to have been the wrong horse to bet on.....

If anything, Titanfall going multiplatform was a mistake.

I have a lot of shit to say about Microsoft, but if there is one thing I cannot deny them, it's that they are very, very good at promoting big games. The push and marketing behind the first Titanfall was great and it was a success.

I think if Titanfall remained exclusive, Titanfall 2 would have done better numbers because Microsoft would have gone all out for it on the second game as they did with the first, and because of its broad appeal, I believe its exclusivity would create more demand for it.

Just imagine the push Halo got in its prime years with liveaction promos, loads of commercials, books, animated shorts, etc. - all the extravaganza, pomp and show Microsoft could throw at it to drive up hype and anticipation. I'm certain it would have done better.
 

FelipeMGM

Member
I don't think Sony owns any of the IPs that they fund through their pubfund program. Most of those games have made it to other platforms. I believe they just ask for 6 month exclusivity.

Also, didn't Sony fund No Man's Sky, SFV, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, and Helldivers? All have made their way to PC. Do Sony own those IPs?

Thats because they dont publish any of the games on PubFund, its a program where they just give money to those devs in return of some platform exclusivity or platform focus. In the past those games would even remain exclusive until Sony got that money back through their cut from PSN sales, dont think they do that anymore tho. They gave money to those devs (and I think max was 1M?) but they were not the only source of funding or the publisher of such games

Sony didnt fund NMS per say, they did marketing (which costed a lot) had producers on it and distributed the game in its PS4 physical form, but you can find Sean Murray on record talking how its still an independent game and that Hello Games funded it. They didnt exactly fund the existence of SFV either, they paid for exclusivity and that money made possible to Capcom to develop that game at a faster rate

And about 'Rapture and Helldivers, yes Sony owns those IP's. Just because they published those games on PC (via Sony Mobile defunct seal) doesnt mean they dont own them.

So the point still remains, Sony wont dump dozens of millions of dollars to completely fund a game they dont own, as they havent done in a while
 

Arklite

Member
In the midst of Microsoft's TV enthusiasm, Quantum Break was born. Then Microsoft was forced to change its mind after the TV idea went down like a lead balloon. So Microsoft closed Xbox Entertainment Studios in LA and backed out. But Remedy's course was already set. Fortunately Remedy had been outsourcing its filming elsewhere, so somehow Quantum Break "survived all of those shifts at Microsoft". But the struggle didn't end there.

So if Remedy hadn't been outsourcing for whatever reason then their initial plans would have been completely fucked. The Microsoft of recent years is adaptable in the way it seems to switch directions on a dime to adjust to the market, but on the other hand its haste to kill projects is sloppy and bizarrely indiscriminate.
 

Wozman23

Member
Yes, but that was before the policy change. Back then Microsoft were open to letting developers keep their IPs, though they would of course lock down the publishing rights and option for a sequel (see: Ryse and Sunset Overdrive). That seemed to change once Phil Spencer took over, Microsoft now wants to own the IPs of all their first party games.

Sony owns every first party game they've published and have since Crash and Spyro (which were the entire reason why they came up with that policy). So yes, they own Demon's Souls, Bloodborne, Death Stranding and so on.

It's a shame Microsoft did a 180. I'm a huge fan of Insomniac, so the policy that allowed Insomniac to own the Sunset Overdrive IP single-handedly sold 1 Xbox One to a guy who never owned a Microsoft console before. Sadly, my enthusiasm since that day has pretty much been in a freefall.

IP ownership is a big deal for many developers, and should be for any creative person. Microsoft could have of created an environment that attracted many developers simply by allowing them to retain IP rights. Had they stuck to that plan they could have had more Sunset Overdrives, and other new IPs to at least give their anemic, long-in-the-tooth lineup some vigor.

Yah man...the 2 non-playstation insomniac games seems to have underwhelmed in terms of sales while the ratchet & clank remake actually sold quite a lot...no surprise why they went Sony exclusive again with spider Man

I'll assume we're talking Fuse and Sunset Overdrive (and not the more indie Song of the Deep). Despite turning out to be a solid game, Fuse had its issues - we won't beat that dead horse - but Sunset Overdrive should have been more successful. Had it been a PS4 exclusive, there's no doubt it would have sold better, not only due to the bigger install base, but because it felt like the mix of a punk spiritual successor to Ratchet & Clank with a bit of Infamous thrown in the mix. We may have even had a sequel by now.

Regardless, the great thing about both cases though is that Insomniac owns those IPs, which puts them in a much better position should they choose to revive either. I don't know the specifics of the contract they signed with Microsoft, but I assume they could shop the idea of a Sunset Overdrive 2 to Sony if they wanted to.

I think Insomniac is a great example of a successful independent developer. Their games aren't always hits, and some perform below expectations, but they continue to thrive. They're kind of a microcosm for how any studio should function. Sometimes you develop new IP and take risks; other times you take the safer bet and make a sequel for a trusted IP. That's a good balance, and it's a balance Microsoft is really struggling to find.
 
If MS changed their policies to own the IPs of the games they publish, it doesn't surprise me that their line up is so anemic. Halo and Gears weren't born as own IPs, they need to ease that policy if they want to attract the few remaining indepedent big developers.
 

johnny956

Member
If anything, Titanfall going multiplatform was a mistake.

I have a lot of shit to say about Microsoft, but if there is one thing I cannot deny them, it's that they are very, very good at promoting big games. The push and marketing behind the first Titanfall was great and it was a success.

I think if Titanfall remained exclusive, Titanfall 2 would have done better numbers because Microsoft would have gone all out for it on the second game as they did with the first, and because of its broad appeal, I believe its exclusivity would create more demand for it.

Just imagine the push Halo got in its prime years with liveaction promos, loads of commercials, books, animated shorts, etc. - all the extravaganza, pomp and show Microsoft could throw at it to drive up hype and anticipation. I'm certain it would have done better.

Titanfall was successful because it launched in March, 4 months after the launch of Xbox One. Easy to say it would have sold even better if it released on PS4. Infamous Second Son released in the same month and sold fairly well on the low install base at the time. New systems, few games = high attach rates. Titanfall 2 picked a terrible release date in a crowded market of other shooters. If they would have gone with a spring release date it would have sold considerably better in my opinion.
 

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
I'm going to split off the part about Crossfire being most of their staff right now so that people have a sense of when that is coming versus when Project 7 is coming.
 

cakely

Member
If anything, Titanfall going multiplatform was a mistake.

I have a lot of shit to say about Microsoft, but if there is one thing I cannot deny them, it's that they are very, very good at promoting big games. The push and marketing behind the first Titanfall was great and it was a success.

I think if Titanfall remained exclusive, Titanfall 2 would have done better numbers because Microsoft would have gone all out for it on the second game as they did with the first, and because of its broad appeal, I believe its exclusivity would create more demand for it.

Just imagine the push Halo got in its prime years with liveaction promos, loads of commercials, books, animated shorts, etc. - all the extravaganza, pomp and show Microsoft could throw at it to drive up hype and anticipation. I'm certain it would have done better.

The original Titanfall did great on the Xbox One because it was the high-budget, space-themed FPS on a Microsoft console that didn't yet have Halo or Gears.

If it Titanfall 2 remained exclusive on the Xbox One in 2016 it would have sold half of the copies that it ended up selling. It sold poorly because of its release timing, not because it wasn't an Xbox One exclusive.
 
So Microsoft wanted to make Alan Wake 2 on the condition they would get the Alan Wake rights, Remedy didn't want to give Alan Wake to them for whatever reason. Now we'll probably never see Alan Wake 2 because outside of Microsoft, who would fund the sequel to a poor selling Xbox exclusive from 2010. That's very sad to read :(
Thank god they didn't go with that deal. Big developers owning their IPs is rare, no? Doesn't Insomniac own Sunset Overdrive?
 

AmuroChan

Member
Sony didnt fund NMS per say, they did marketing (which costed a lot) had producers on it and distributed the game in its PS4 physical form, but you can find Sean Murray on record talking how its still an independent game and that Hello Games funded it. They didnt exactly fund the existence of SFV either, they paid for exclusivity and that money made possible to Capcom to develop that game at a faster rate

I get what you're saying, but in these examples Sony still spent money that contributed to the development of these games. For example, if you look at NMS's credits, there were a whole group of programmers listed that were SIE employees. So Sony didn't just provide a couple producers on the game. They also provided an entire team of programmers that aided in the development of the game.

Anyway, semantics aside, I think this still proves that Sony could partner with Remedy on a game that they don't own the IP to, similar to SFV.
 

jayu26

Member
Then Microsoft was forced to change its mind after the TV idea went down like a lead balloon.

Part of me thinks that this was originally written as "lead zeppelin" before an editor changed it.
 
I think the unfortunate thing for Remedy was that both games took so long. Had Alan Wake come out in say 2008 and not against Red Dead it might've done better? Had QB been out 3/4 years maybe the same, unfortunate but I loved both games.

Looking forward to P7
 

hawk2025

Member
On the other hand, what has owning Sunset Overdrive accomplished, for now?

The contract has a right of first refusal, there is largely no intrinsic value to the IP in producing merchandising at this point, and funding a sequel themselves would be a massive risk.

IP ownership of large AAA properties is a pyrrhic victory for devs in the current industry. They seem to lose more in gaining that ownership, instead of negotiating other dimensions.
 
On the other hand, what has owning Sunset Overdrive accomplished, for now?.

You hope it'd be popular, then you yourself can work with other partners to expand the IP value via stuff like mobile games, movie deals, merchandising, etc.

Titanfall, for one, has gotten stuff like mobile games and non-EA related stuff that presumably expands Respawn's coffers.

Sunset Overdrive has one big problem though.

It has no popularity worth attracting partnerships with. And they don't have an Inafune who can somehow cut a multimedia deal with something completely unproven (MN9)
 

Jakoo

Member
It's amazing how the massive philosophical changes within the Xbox division over the course of the XB1 really did a number on some of the developers that partnered with them.
 
Remedy didn't want to give Alan Wake to them for whatever reason. very sad to read :(

Some people actually like to own the things they created... I will forever be sad about the fact that Remedy sold Max Payne. They needed the money, probably, but still. That is sad.



As a huge fan of Max Payne 1 and 2 I think Remedy has gone down since. Alan Wake disappointed me for being much different from what they promised at first, but I enjoyed it a lot anyways. Quantum Break is just... okay, I guess?

They spoke about that in the article. They won't show their games too early anymore. Lesson learned there. Things change, and game development is very stormy ship. Rarely the original vision is what devs release. So many ideas has to be abandoned, and then the "fans" scream for blood because devs "lied" to them.


I prefer when developers own their IPs. At least there is hope for an Alan Wake 2 eventually but Quantum Break is just dead.

Too bad for them that the whole TV experiment didn't work but I rather have the game we end up with instead of an episodic one.

The thing with the Remedy is that they always try to make more than games. Since the first Max Payne they have been trying this cross-media thing. The culmination point was with Quantum Break. They exhausted that route, Sami has said that in an interview.

And in the article this OP is about. MP with comics, AW with books and finally QB with a TV series. And they always have strived for that cinematic way of making games. Not in the "look all these cutscenes and press one button every second hour" but their games as a whole try to reach for the movie world. In my opinioin, that is one of the things that set Remedy apart.

And again, they learned a lot about those games. One of the things they learnt is that they need to make games ready faster. They will no more spend so much time with a game. They will go AA route instead of big blockbuster AAA route.



I have to respect Remedy for daring to be themselves and doing what they want. As an indie dev company, they have the freedom to do what they want. Alan Wake and Quantum Break wasn't flops for Remedy (might been for Microsoft, but they an take the hit), again Sami said that in one interview. They made enough money to go separate ways with Microsoft. Again, they partnered with MS because MS was willing to pay them for the games Remedy wants to make.

People may forget that it was not Microsoft that forced Remedy to make the game like they made them, Remedy wanted that.


I hope that Remedy stays far away from Sony exclusivity... Yäk.


They've made plans to sustain themselves making games for every platform, that Korean (?) shooter (?) SP story is a fine example. Take a contract, make it well and earn money to make something your own. Like Platinum, I think?
 

Bustanen

Member
Cuningas de Häme;238176108 said:
Some people actually like to own the things they created... I will forever be sad about the fact that Remedy sold Max Payne. They needed the money, probably, but still. That is sad.
Yeah MP3 was so disappointing. I hope they will someday make a spiritual successor.

Alan Wake and Quantum Break wasn't flops for Remedy (might been for Microsoft, but they an take the hit), again Sami said that in one interview.

I hope that Remedy stays far away from Sony exclusivity... Yäk.
AW did okay I guess but QB was a commercial flop. Did it even get to a million sold WW? I think they've learned their lesson and won't make exclusives anymore and that's great for everyone.
 

EvB

Member
I don't think Sony owns any of the IPs that they fund through their pubfund program.

Also, didn't Sony fund No Man's Sky, SFV, Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, and Helldivers? All have made their way to PC. Do Sony own those IPs?

Everybody's gone to the Rapture is a Sony IP
Studio Santa Monica ported it to the PC

Helldivers is also owned by Sony.
 

Warablo

Member
Yea guys, lets all blame Microsoft.

Lets be real, the market for their type of games don't sell well. I enjoyed Alan Wake and Quantum Break even the mini series stuff, but its hard to convince a consumer to throw down $60 for 5 to 10 hour single player story campaign.
 

orochi91

Member
The general rule is that if Sony is publishing something then they own the IP. The only exceptions have been smaller Pub Fund games who get some financing from Sony, but even so I think they're self-published (i.e. Joe Danger, Guacamelee), and then there's No Man's Sky, which I think was 'distributed' by Sony but 'published' by Hello Games.

Weirdly enough Sony also seems to still own What Remains of Edith Finch. Unless the UK trademark hasn't yet been updated, but considering how long ago Sony & Giant Sparrow parted ways that seems odd: https://www.ipo.gov.uk/tmcase/Results/4/EU013540241
Nioh seems to be an exception, since they published it despite not owning the IP.
 

Dabanton

Member
Yea guys, lets all blame Microsoft.

Lets be real, the market for their type of games don't sell well. I enjoyed Alan Wake and Quantum Break even the mini series stuff, but its hard to convince a consumer to throw down $60 for 5 to 10 hour single player story campaign.

Those sort of games need absolutely stellar reviews and word of mouth to push people over the edge to purchase.

Now I think QB looked great but all the talk of resolution, plus it's delay kneecapped it. I thought the TV stuff was actually really good. Added a lot to the actual game with the characters.

I feel for Remedy as MS gave them a lot of leeway in terms of time getting projects done will be interested to see their dev turnarounds now.
 
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