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[Cosmo Clock 21]

But you're raising less than half of your actual budget.

Obviously, it would be easier for you with a Bloodstained arrangement, but I don't see how there's such a vast difference in principle.

Obviously a lot of this stuff is NDA'd to hell and back, but as a rough estimate how much do you think the publishing arrangements differ between Bloodstained and Indivisible? Things like ownership of IP change when you go from 10% to 40%.

 

[nynt9]

Here is a stream archive link to where one of the designers talk about what went into the level design of the prototype and thoughts they have moving forward for the full game. If you don't have time to watch it, at least know that this sort of information is being provided by the dev team. I've also seen Mike Z play and dissect Super Metroid more than once. He's also answered gameplay related questions about Indivisible several times though those stream archives are huge so it might be hard to pinpoint answers if you don't have time to watch it all. I totally understand having a better idea of how level design might play out in an Igavania since he's made a lot of games of that sort but more information on level design is available for this game. If you liked the level design of the prototype (I have no idea if you do or not), I feel like you can reasonably expect the final product to be a lot better in this regard. If the base minimum was appealing to you, I think you should be able to feel good about the full thing.

Since Ravidrath is here, posting in this thread and the other Indivisble thread, feel free to politely press him for answers. Unlike most crowdfunding campaigns, a member of the dev team is actually on this board and very active.

As for 2D character on 3D backgrounds, they said multiple times that it is something they will work to improve on. If the game gets funded the final product will look much better in that regard. I know I've seen some updated pictures but I don't have that link on hand. Maybe Ravidrath has them?

Well, sure, they've told us, but that's different from us just knowing. That's the difference I'm trying to highlight. And not every potential backer is going to go through all the statements by the devs.

Personally, the feel of the platforming didn't appeal to me and I don't like the combat (the system is fine but that it exists at all is the problem for me, I just find this style of combat to be tedious and flow-breaking in a platformer) so this game isn't for me. Good luck to them though. But my point is that, as others said, it's not just that it's on IGG, as someone said maybe it's just Occam's Razor, aka people might just not be into the game.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Here's the thing about Kickstarter that I think some people don't consider: it's basically a social network.

I like Kickstarter because it's the place to be. I've backed a ton of Kickstarters. I'm already on it. I have a profile of all the games I've backed. People know what Kickstarter is. Crowdfunding is referred to generically as "kickstarting."

But to fund Indivisible, I have to migrate to a new website. One that I don't already use. One without my profile and my history. One that lacks the brand recognition of Kickstarter.

It's like Facebook vs Google+. All my friends are on Kickstarter. I've been using Kickstarter for years. I know what to expect pages to look like. I know the format. Why would I switch now?

I know nothing about IGG's supposedly shaky reputation. I know that, on paper, it's much better for developers than Kickstarter. But it isn't as accessible for actual backers.

I haven't backed Indivisible yet (I definitely will) because I haven't made an account yet to do so. And when you work all the time and your 2.5" wide iPhone 5S is your most regularly utilized portal to the Internet, clicking extra links and filling out boxes with my credit card number is really inconvenient.

But if it was on KS, my stuff is already there. Ready. I can pledge with the press of a button.

 

[SolarPowered]

Here's the thing about Kickstarter that I think some people don't consider: it's basically a social network.

I like Kickstarter because it's the place to be. I've backed a ton of Kickstarters. I'm already on it. I have a profile of all the games I've backed. People know what Kickstarter is. Crowdfunding is referred to generically as "kickstarting."

But to fund Indivisible, I have to migrate to a new website. One that I don't already use. One without my profile and my history. One that lacks the brand recognition of Kickstarter.

It's like Facebook vs Google+. All my friends are on Kickstarter. I've been using Kickstarter for years. I know what to expect pages to look like. I know the format. Why would I switch now?

I know nothing about IGG's supposedly shaky reputation. I know that, on paper, it's much better for developers than Kickstarter. But it isn't as accessible for actual backers.

I haven't backed Indivisible yet (I definitely will) because I haven't made an account yet to do so. And when you work all the time and your 2.5" wide iPhone 5S is your most regularly utilized portal to the Internet, clicking extra links and filling out boxes with my credit card number is really inconvenient.

But if it was on KS, my stuff is already there. Ready. I can pledge with the press of a button.

You don't need an account for Indiegogo. You can back just fine with an email and paypal.

 

[Delusibeta]

Think he's more saying that using Crowdfunding as glorified focus group / marketing really hurts those who genuinely need to crowdfund. It also gives artificially low impressions of dev costs since the publisher is actually carrying 90% of it.

Considering that this is a project where a publisher is carrying minimum 57% and probably closer to 66% once all of the extra stuff 505 is doing (localisation, testing, distribution etc) is factored in: eh. Additionally, I wouldn't be too surprised if all of the stuff excluded from Lab Zero's $3.5mil figure is included in Bloodstained's $5mil figure, and I wouldn't be too surprised if the all-inclusive budget for Indivisible winds up close to the five million dollar mark.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

You don't need an account for Indiegogo. You can back just fine with an email and paypal.

See, I didn't even know that!

 

[Heyasuki]

Having to pay up front rubbed me the wrong way (still backed the campaign) since I sometimes change my funding amount. Maybe others feel similar.

In the end I love what you guys did in this campaign and it's exactly what I want to see (REAL numbers). I usually check how many employee's might be working on the project, does the amount feel realistic? etc.

Aderyn's Cradle is an example on IGG that is the opposite. They're only asking 40k, 9 employee's that I can see. I asked them to justify how 40k is going to pay for 9 people...and no reply.

 

[Grief.exe]

I put this at the feet of indiegogo.

 

[tuxfool]

Well, sure, they've told us, but that's different from us just knowing. That's the difference I'm trying to highlight. And not every potential backer is going to go through all the statements by the devs.

How can you know how the games those other developers are proposing will turn out?

Just because they had successful games in the past doesn't mean they'll repeat themselves and make games that feel and work in the same way as their previous games.

 

[BennyBlanco]

I can't believe they actually expected to raise 1.5m from fans for this. Ballsy move.

 

[nynt9]

How can you know how the games those other developers are proposing will turn out?

Just because they had successful games in the past doesn't mean they'll repeat themselves and make games that feel and work in the same way as their previous games.

You're missing the point. It's not about knowing what the final game will end up like. It's about people having a well-realized expectation based on their past experience with the creators that will give them a vision for the final game which they will back based upon.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

While I do agree that lots of people don't pledge due to misconceptions about game dev or crowdfunding, those people seem to be in the minority when it comes to donating.

 

[charlequin]

It's not really underperforming and it's not Brony-Fanservice-the-Game either.

I'm willing to believe part of the blame is on the developers here but there's no question in my mind that this campaign is underperforming.

I think that's fair though I can understand how its frustrating to hear "I like what you've done and/or are doing and have the means to support you but choose not to." It's not a mean thing to say but it isn't remotely helpful. Like......thanks?

I mean, people's feelings about the game and the campaign are not necessarily going to be equivalent. Even in the most spotless projects there are people who don't want to crowdfund specifically but are still enthusiastic about buying when the game is released. (Just think about whether you'd be willing to put full price down two years in advance for every game you're ever psyched for to see why this happens.) When a campaign has any actual issues you're going to see people making reasoned, rational decisions to stay out of the campaign even if they hope it succeeds.

 

[eyeball_kid]

Kinuko, the Lead Animator of Skullgirls and Art Director of Indivisible shared a surprising fact on Twitter:

I've seen "all game devs are rich" a bunch! I made $23k BEFORE taxes working full time on Skullgirls last year, oops http://kotaku.com/10-big-myths-about-games-debunked-by-the-people-who-ma-1737839268

Related: Indivisible's budget 'seems' high bc we'll be paid real salaries this time and I won't have to take on tons of freelance to live!!

$23k. And keep in mind, Kinuko lives in Los Angeles, so that $23k does not go very far.

 

[Ravidrath]

$23k. And keep in mind, Kinuko lives in Los Angeles, so that $23k does not go very far.

I'm the CEO, and that's what I paid myself last year, too. And unlike Mariel and the other artists, I can't really supplement my income with freelance work. And taking on all that freelance work did impact the production time of the Skullgirls DLC.

We all got some additional cash from Skullgirls royalties, but it was to keep everyone fed and sheltered. The company wasn't really able to bank any money because of that.

 

[eyeball_kid]

I'm the CEO, and that's what I paid myself last year, too. And unlike Mariel and the other artists, I can't really supplement my income with freelance work.

We all got some additional cash from Skullgirls royalties, but it was to keep everyone fed and sheltered. The company wasn't really able to bank any money because of that.

Respect for that. Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to say that management was taking advantage of artists, just that the reality of salaries for an somewhat well-known indie studio is probably way off from what most people imagine it is.

 

[Ravidrath]

With the Skullgirls campaign, we all took subsistence pay, thinking we'd just barely squeak by with Squigly.

Then it blew up, and extended our subsistence pay to 2-2.5 years, instead of the estimated 3-4 months. Of course we were thrilled with the level of support we got, but it was a double-edged sword for us as people that need to live and eat and all that stuff.

We also suffered a number of delays outside of our control from the Konami fiasco, etc. People didn't get paid extra because of those delays, they just had to stretch their dollars more, take on more freelance work, dip into savings, etc.

We all made a ton of personal sacrifices to get Skullgirls DLC out the door and overdeliver on our promises, and we're just not financially able to weather that kind of situation again.

That said, if Indivisible is funded, our "real salaries" will still all be below the industry average.

 

[TSM]

For me I was interested until halfway through the trailer when it hit the battle section. Assuming the platforming is actually fun, completely stopping it for RPG battles seems like it will be tedious.

 

[not psycho]

I do think the things mentioned are part of it, but far from the biggest part.

With Skullgirls, you mention the name "Marvel vs Capcom" or "Darkstalkers" (widely beloved series which will never have another 2d-art entry), you show some of the awesome art, and imagination can fill in the rest. In fighting games the character art and animation is held in the highest esteem and is expected to be a major part of the enjoyment. If the biggest draw is 2d art and animation, then it is a perfect fit for a fighting game, and Skullgirls made sense to people because they already loved MvC, Darkstalkers, etc.

Skullgirls benefited from much the same thing that Bloodstained does. "I don't need a prototype, that's obviously something I want." Incidentally, a "Lab Zero Castlevania" with cool artwork shown would probably have gotten funded too, as everyone would instantly understand the appeal.

Indivisible is a much harder sell because it doesn't have that perfect fit. Valkyrie Profile was never hugely popular or widely played. Indivisible does not have an intuitively clear genre. The art doesn't work as well as a draw. Instead, it all falls on the prototype to blow people away and lead to amazing word of mouth. Very difficult. And indeed, the prototype (which of course is far, far from what the completed game would be) has not blown everyone away. Perhaps that is because even with the prototype the battle system takes some getting used to!

 

[joe2187]

For me I was interested until halfway through the trailer when it hit the battle section. Assuming the platforming is actually fun, completely stopping it for RPG battles seems like it will be tedious.

You should play the prototype...

 

[War Machine]

It's blowing my mind that there are people out there who will watch videos of the prototype but won't play it for themselves

 

[TSM]

You should play the prototype...

The trailer already lost me. I'll take another look at it closer to launch assuming it makes it's goal.

Those clips of what looks like someone holding left and the run button do not look like compelling gameplay. Running through enemies at high speed has been done so many times by so many games that I'm not sure why it'd be a selling point. Am I also supposed to be impressed if there are certain walls in the game that can only be destroyed by running through them at top speed? It's a genre staple at this point.

 

[Cellsai]

The trailer already lost me. I'll take another look at it closer to launch assuming it makes it's goal.

Stopping for battles is bad. Quickly killing enemies outside of battle is bad.

????

 

[More_Badass]

For me I was interested until halfway through the trailer when it hit the battle section. Assuming the platforming is actually fun, completely stopping it for RPG battles seems like it will be tedious.

Should give it a try. It's unlike any turn-based RPG I've played. Completely seamless and it plays like a fast-paced combo-heavy fighter

 

[nynt9]

It's blowing my mind that there are people out there who will watch videos of the prototype but won't play it for themselves

Not everyone has a PC to play it on maybe? The game is slated for consoles as well so console-only players can't check it out.

Stopping for battles is bad. Quickly killing enemies outside of battle is bad.

????

You're being obtuse. Stopping for RPG battles is tedious, but shinesparking through enemies isn't interesting combat either. I'm assuming TSM wants (I do too) combat like Muramasa, for example.

 

[slayn]

metroidvanias are a hard sell without past history in the genre. This is because the best parts of these games are the things you don't know (and don't want to know) prior to jumping into the game. Most who claim to want to make a metroidvania and seem to have good intentions and know what they're doing don't actually end up making anything I would consider great and instead just try to mimic the great things of the past.

And so in a sense, kickstarters for this kind of game are hurt by the past failures of others. And so I think its difficult to justify paying for one up front. I want to hear the word of mouth on the finished product and then jump in without knowing anything. That isn't what the devs want to hear because without up front funding the game won't happen at all and I understand that. It just means we're at an impasse where the game won't get made.

The prototype was great for showing the battle system concepts and gave me a basic sense of the style of secrets the game might have. But I saw none of the more complex and ingenious level design of super metroid or valkyrie profile.

The most genius moments of super metroid are when you learn to use abilities you had all along but had no idea you could even use them. You start that game with wall jumping but because at that time in gaming wall jumping was a very, very rare mechanic almost no one would think to just try it. And then you find yourself in a place you can't possibly get out of while 3 little creatures you can't interact with are bouncing off the walls. And you think, "huh... what if? Holy shit I could have been doing this the whole time?!"

This also has to do with how super metroid teaches you its abilities like the speed boots. You don't really understand how to use them but by running out of the room they suddenly take effect and oh man that looked cool.

Indivisible instead of wowing me with its own unique ideas just copied super metroid. And it carries none of the shock and awe because its been done before. Copying the traversal abilities and cool moments of past games simply doesn't work. To be great, a new metroidvania has to bring truly unique gameplay ideas to the picture.

Valkyrie Profile 1/2 (I actually think 2 is far better in this regard) were similarly incredible because of their highly complex level design and traversal abilities I had never seen before. The first time in VP2 that you realize you can nearly fly via its ricocheting teleporting shots is exhilarating. But if indivisible were to then also steal that I would remain unimpressed because its already been done.

I also consider La-Mulana to be one of the greats and its uniqueness came through its puzzle design and its massive array of items. That, again, brought something new to the table instead of relying on old ideas.

But I simply don't see that here. The game is super pretty and I love its style but gameplay wise what I see is the re-hashing of old ideas I've already seen, loved, and grew tired of.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

Am I seriously seeing turnbased battle shade to wave this off? On MY internet?!?

 

[Atolm]

Tbh I haven't played Skullgirls nor I have interest on this new game (not my cup of tea in both cases) but this is eye-opening. One would think that with the fuss Skullgirls had it would have been much more successful and profitable. I guess not.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

Yeah, I get that. The disadvantage to ME, the person they are asking from, is that it's taken out immediately. I don't get to plan when its taken out (like I do with KS) so either I have it or a don't. Then I have to wait for a refund if its the project fails. What is I don't get my refund? That's a potential pain in the ass.

To the people they are requesting the money from? It's a disadvantage. And the people are the most important cog here.

I'm kind of in the same boat. I understand the reasons why Lab Zero chose IndieGoGo instead of Kickstarter, but on the other hand I think with the benefits of using Kickstarter would outweigh IGG. Personally, paying for it in advance doesn't work so well for me, and I'm waiting on my next paypacket from work before I can contribute.

 

[Samemind]

So what's the effective difference between putting down a pledge now on Kickstarter, and budgeting for and planning to pledge near the deadline on indiegogo? If it's not convenient for you to have money taken now, then presumably it's fine by the time the end of the campaign rolls around and you have to pay up right?

 

[Edzi]

So what's the effective difference between putting down a pledge now on Kickstarter, and budgeting for and planning to pledge near the deadline on indiegogo? If it's not convenient for you to have money taken now, then presumably it's fine by the time the end of the campaign rolls around and you have to pay up right?

Seriously, there's no reason why someone who wants to back this couldn't (assuming you have some sort of disposable income). I think it's just that some people who aren't interested feel the need to make an excuse for why they won't contribute.

 

[slayn]

So what's the effective difference between putting down a pledge now on Kickstarter, and budgeting for and planning to pledge near the deadline on indiegogo? If it's not convenient for you to have money taken now, then presumably it's fine by the time the end of the campaign rolls around and you have to pay up right?

For the person, that's fine but it severely hurts the momentum of the compaign. People feel good about backing a winner. When you see the pledges skyrocket all at the start there is a feeling of 'me too' and wanting to jump in.

If everyone waits until the end, then the campaign will spend most of its life looking like its going to fail. And that will have a psychological effect that turns people away that would have otherwise bought in.

 

[peakish]

Seriously, there's no reason why someone who wants to back this couldn't (assuming you have some sort of disposable income). I think it's just that some people who aren't interested feel the need to make an excuse for why they won't contribute.

Oh god, you found us out.

 

[Skidd]

Running through enemies at high speed has been done so many times by so many games that I'm not sure why it'd be a selling point.

Because it's mimicing the thing in the other game that they are using as inspiration, attempting to appeal to that specific audience?

Am I also supposed to be impressed if there are certain walls in the game that can only be destroyed by running through them at top speed?

Not meaning to offend or antagonize here but you seem to have this metaphorical stick up your butt about developers relying on game design tropes that have been proven to work well in the past. But yeah, no you don't need to impressed because obviously you are not part of the target audience but dissing on the fact that it's in the game is also kinda not cool. You don't have to reinvent the wheel everytime you make a game.

It's a genre staple at this point.

Genuine curiosity here, could you name other games (that don't have the word metroid in the title) that use this mechanic? Also, do you think it being a staple is a bad thing?

 

[El Sloth]

For me I was interested until halfway through the trailer when it hit the battle section. Assuming the platforming is actually fun, completely stopping it for RPG battles seems like it will be tedious.

It's not like you'll have to engage in every battle. Here's one of the devs doing a pacifist run of the prototype where he completely avoids many battles by simply jumping over them and runs away from those he can't: https://youtu.be/GR1Y9zAPT34?t=3m10s

 

[SolarPowered]

Tbh I haven't played Skullgirls nor I have interest on this new game (not my cup of tea in both cases) but this is eye-opening. One would think that with the fuss Skullgirls had it would have been much more successful and profitable. I guess not.

That was exactly the case for everyone except the developer.

 

[TSM]

It's not like you'll have to engage in every battle. Here's one of the devs doing a pacifist run of the prototype where he completely avoids many battles by simply jumping over them and runs away from those he can't: https://youtu.be/GR1Y9zAPT34?t=3m10s

Yeah https://youtu.be/GR1Y9zAPT34?t=222 and https://youtu.be/GR1Y9zAPT34?t=459 is pretty much what I was expecting. It's cool. Not every game is made for me.

Because it's mimicing the thing in the other game that they are using as inspiration, attempting to appeal to that specific audience?

Not meaning to offend or antagonize here but you seem to have this metaphorical stick up your butt about developers relying on game design tropes that have been proven to work well in the past. But yeah, no you don't need to impressed because obviously you are not part of the target audience but dissing on the fact that it's in the game is also kinda not cool. You don't have to reinvent the wheel everytime you make a game.

Genuine curiosity here, could you name other games (that don't have the word metroid in the title) that use this mechanic? Also, do you think it being a staple is a bad thing?

The guy posted those as compelling gifs which they really weren't for me. I'm actually fine with developers using these things. Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.

As for games using this mechanic, here's 2 just off the top of my head that aren't Metroid.

https://youtu.be/VQTv8fJyoIk?list=PL1456C7C4F01DCF33&t=458

https://youtu.be/qkb93JoXulE?t=45

Also keep in mind that we were running through enemies at full speed at least as early as Super Mario Bros on the NES (with a star obviously). Sonic rolling into a ball and plowing through enemies, etc.

 

[El Sloth]

metroidvanias are a hard sell without past history in the genre. This is because the best parts of these games are the things you don't know (and don't want to know) prior to jumping into the game. Most who claim to want to make a metroidvania and seem to have good intentions and know what they're doing don't actually end up making anything I would consider great and instead just try to mimic the great things of the past.

And so in a sense, kickstarters for this kind of game are hurt by the past failures of others. And so I think its difficult to justify paying for one up front. I want to hear the word of mouth on the finished product and then jump in without knowing anything. That isn't what the devs want to hear because without up front funding the game won't happen at all and I understand that. It just means we're at an impasse where the game won't get made.

The prototype was great for showing the battle system concepts and gave me a basic sense of the style of secrets the game might have. But I saw none of the more complex and ingenious level design of super metroid or valkyrie profile.

The most genius moments of super metroid are when you learn to use abilities you had all along but had no idea you could even use them. You start that game with wall jumping but because at that time in gaming wall jumping was a very, very rare mechanic almost no one would think to just try it. And then you find yourself in a place you can't possibly get out of while 3 little creatures you can't interact with are bouncing off the walls. And you think, "huh... what if? Holy shit I could have been doing this the whole time?!"

This also has to do with how super metroid teaches you its abilities like the speed boots. You don't really understand how to use them but by running out of the room they suddenly take effect and oh man that looked cool.

Indivisible instead of wowing me with its own unique ideas just copied super metroid. And it carries none of the shock and awe because its been done before. Copying the traversal abilities and cool moments of past games simply doesn't work. To be great, a new metroidvania has to bring truly unique gameplay ideas to the picture.

Valkyrie Profile 1/2 (I actually think 2 is far better in this regard) were similarly incredible because of their highly complex level design and traversal abilities I had never seen before. The first time in VP2 that you realize you can nearly fly via its ricocheting teleporting shots is exhilarating. But if indivisible were to then also steal that I would remain unimpressed because its already been done.

I also consider La-Mulana to be one of the greats and its uniqueness came through its puzzle design and its massive array of items. That, again, brought something new to the table instead of relying on old ideas.

But I simply don't see that here. The game is super pretty and I love its style but gameplay wise what I see is the re-hashing of old ideas I've already seen, loved, and grew tired of.

It feels kind of weird to chastise a 3 month prototype proof of concept for not wowing you in the same way those games did. Even the run was only put there as a proof of concept of them being able to do secrets in a metroid-ish manner. During a recent stream one of the devs mentions that they're not even sure if that's something they'll want to keep and just put it in because it was an easy way of showing what sort of things they would want to try in the final game.

I agree with a lot of what you said actually, but just felt that this should be said.

 

[nynt9]

Because it's mimicing the thing in the other game that they are using as inspiration, attempting to appeal to that specific audience?

Not meaning to offend or antagonize here but you seem to have this metaphorical stick up your butt about developers relying on game design tropes that have been proven to work well in the past. But yeah, no you don't need to impressed because obviously you are not part of the target audience but dissing on the fact that it's in the game is also kinda not cool. You don't have to reinvent the wheel everytime you make a game.

Genuine curiosity here, could you name other games (that don't have the word metroid in the title) that use this mechanic? Also, do you think it being a staple is a bad thing?

Yeah https://youtu.be/GR1Y9zAPT34?t=222 and https://youtu.be/GR1Y9zAPT34?t=459 is pretty much what I was expecting. It's cool. Not every game is made for me.



The guy posted those as compelling gifs which they really weren't for me. I'm actually fine with developers using these things. Standing on the shoulders of giants and all that.

As for games using this mechanic, here's 2 just off the top of my head that aren't Metroid.

https://youtu.be/VQTv8fJyoIk?list=PL1456C7C4F01DCF33&t=458

https://youtu.be/qkb93JoXulE?t=45

Also keep in mind that we were running through enemies at full speed at least as early as Super Mario Bros on the NES (with a star obviously). Sonic rolling into a ball and plowing through enemies, etc.

Axiom Verge also does it.

 

[slayn]

It feels kind of weird to chastise a 3 month prototype proof of concept for not wowing you in the same way those games did. Even the run was only put there as a proof of concept of them being able to do secrets in a metroid-ish manner. During a recent stream one of the devs mentions that they're not even sure if that's something they'll want to keep and just put it in because it was an easy way of showing what sort of things they would want to try in the final game.

I agree with a lot of what you said actually, but just felt that this should be said.

I don't mean my critique to be a condemning of what the game could eventually become. I'm trying to shed light on the sort of catch 22 of crowd funding a metroidvania. Because the selling point of that particular genre is experiencing something I've never seen before but its hard to do that before you have your funding.

I'm stating a problem I don't know the solution to. The only proven solution is to have already made a metroidvania that people love. But if you haven't already proven yourself how do you prove yourself? I have no idea.

I don't think lab zero did anything particularly wrong with their prototype so much as I think they have taken on an enormous challenge that I certainly don't know how to solve and I don't think they solved it either.

 

[Crocodile]

Well, sure, they've told us, but that's different from us just knowing. That's the difference I'm trying to highlight. And not every potential backer is going to go through all the statements by the devs.

Personally, the feel of the platforming didn't appeal to me and I don't like the combat (the system is fine but that it exists at all is the problem for me, I just find this style of combat to be tedious and flow-breaking in a platformer) so this game isn't for me. Good luck to them though. But my point is that, as others said, it's not just that it's on IGG, as someone said maybe it's just Occam's Razor, aka people might just not be into the game.

I don't think its at all unreasonable to make assumptions of how a game might play based on the previous works of a developer (for say Shenmue 3 or Bloodstained or whatever). What you are saying in that regard makes sense. That being said, even if its not a full game with everything implemented, I've still played/seen played more of this game than Bloodstained. Just as MN9 doesn't play exactly like Mega Man, I'm assuming other spiritual successors probably won't play exactly like their origin series so even though I understand why IGA wasn't able to provide a prototype, it would have been awesome as hell just to better see and understand what he would do with Bloodstained.

I think it would have done well in MN9's case as it would have avoided a lot of backlash later (was the dash mechanic revealed/discussed in the MN9 campaign?). Again, those assumptions for those spiritual successors aren't unreasonable (hence why I backed Bloodstained) - I'm just not sure "who knows what they'll do" is that fair (is this the right word? I'm not sure) if you liked the prototype. At least there is something tangible here.This is especially true consider how open this studio has been in their development of Skullgirls and how open they were to community feedback (which they want to repeat here). Unfortunately, its impossible to replicate that sort of openness with any Japanese developer due to the language barrier

All that being said, it seems you didn't enjoy your time with the prototype. I'm not going to bug you for not backing something you didn't like and I hope you don't think I was. I hope this post wasn't long-winded

 

[Admiral Woofington]

i backed the game but indiegogo is a pain. I got my money taken out immediately and because of that you cant change your fucking pledge or reward.

What a silly fucking system. I already sent a message to the creators but haven't heard back.

 

[BBboy20]

Lets take a look at the long road from Skullgirls.

Skullgirls gets released
- had to bump it's release in order to profit and appease publisher (Konami)
- Lacks some basics and a small roster as a result
- Autumn Games gets hit with multiple lawsuits
- Funding for Skullgirls is halted shortly after release.
- The entire Skullgirls development team was laid off by Reverge Labs (nobody has even gotten paid yet)
- Patches and Updates the game were halted by and had to be re-submitted multiple times (which cost nearly $10k per patch back then)
- Fucked over big time by their publisher Konami (No support, had game delisted)

Lab Zero is formed
- Skullgirls fans raise $75k+ for breast cancer research in order to get a main stage spot at Evo. Placing 2nd place in the lineup.

Skullgirls IndieGogo Campaign begins
- Sets goal to make one character for $150K. Reaches past initial goal in less than a day.
- Sets goal for another character, which gets funded.
- consecutively hits every single stretch goal in it's lineup since the campaign start.
- Starts work on promised content
- Delivers content to owners of game free
- produces double the amount of content than was promised, characters, music, stages, voiced story modes, EX modes, ETC.
- Is able to support future updates: Online lobbies, PS4/Vita port and so on.




I think I can trust Lab Zero to not fuck around with my money.

With the Skullgirls campaign, we all took subsistence pay, thinking we'd just barely squeak by with Squigly.

Then it blew up, and extended our subsistence pay to 2-2.5 years, instead of the estimated 3-4 months. Of course we were thrilled with the level of support we got, but it was a double-edged sword for us as people that need to live and eat and all that stuff.

We also suffered a number of delays outside of our control from the Konami fiasco, etc. People didn't get paid extra because of those delays, they just had to stretch their dollars more, take on more freelance work, dip into savings, etc.

We all made a ton of personal sacrifices to get Skullgirls DLC out the door and overdeliver on our promises, and we're just not financially able to weather that kind of situation again.

That said, if Indivisible is funded, our "real salaries" will still all be below the industry average.

...this is your emotional narrative right here.

I suppose you could try catering to the #FucKonami crowd, at least.

Kinuko, the Lead Animator of Skullgirls and Art Director of Indivisible shared a surprising fact on Twitter:

$23k. And keep in mind, Kinuko lives in Los Angeles, so that $23k does not go very far.

When the fuck this misconception became popular?

 

[SolarPowered]

...this is your emotional narrative right here.

I suppose you could try catering to the #FucKonami crowd, at least.

When the fuck this misconception became popular?

I think it kind of entered the mainstream consciousness of gamers around the time of the Defense Grid 2 KS, but it really blew up with the Skullgirls indiegogo when people balked at the cost for Squigly. Hidden Path put together a great video with tons of information after the Defense Grid 2 KS crashed. It was really eyeopening for me and a lot of other people, I think.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505282