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[GoldenEye98]

A principal programmer at Sony associated with the firm's Advanced Technology Group is working with AMD's Ryzen technology, improving the Zen core's micro-architecture support within the LLVM compiler stack - a key component of a tool used in the PlayStation 4 development environment. Of course, there is no PS4 product using the Ryzen processor, leading to speculation that this is related to a prospective next-gen PlayStation 5 console currently in development.

The evidence - unearthed by Linux-specialist site Phoronix - shows the highly experienced Sony programmer making a number of commits to the LLVM github over the last few weeks, all of them related to the "znver1" architecture, the codename for AMD's first generation Ryzen processors. On top of that, information on LinkedIn confirms the staffer's involvement in compiler development for PlayStation hardware. Game credits in Media Molecule's Tearaway and Evolution Studios' DriveClub confirm that the developer is also a part of Sony's Advanced Technology Group, which serves a number of roles in the Sony organisation.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...h-amd-ryzen-and-ps5-is-the-most-likely-target

 

[Bigfroth]

cool, I take it Ryzen is a much better choice than the Jaguar CPU"s in current gen consoles.

 

[FranXico]

I'm aware that it still is hard to judge, but would €399 for a PS5 in 2019 be feasible then?

 

[Eliciel]

wow, pretty good catch there. I can totally see the reasoning behind it by combining two articles. The one posted by the OP and the one within the comments of the article by Eurogamer article:

 

[GoldenEye98]

wow, pretty good catch there. I can totally see the reasoning behind it by combining two articles. The one posted by the OP and the one within the comments of the article by Eurogamer article:

Jeez, that seems like a dead giveaway by Sony of the PS5 launch assuming the drop is the result of intial loss on new hardware.To me that screams fall 2020 launch.

 

[NickFire]

wow, pretty good catch there. I can totally see the reasoning behind it by combining two articles. The one posted by the OP and the one within the comments of the article by Eurogamer article:

If that forecast is from the horse's mouth that essentially guarantees a Fall 2020 release, right?

 

[cormack12]

Might be worth recapping an old Leadbetter article (also from eurogamer)

Why Next-Gen Consoles Need Ryzen CPU Technology!


The effect of increased CPU clock on PS4 Pro boost mode


Relevant excerpts:

So what happens now? Microsoft has customised Jaguar for Xbox One X, so we get a 31 per cent bump in frequency with associated benefits, plus some interesting tweaks designed to maximise performance from L2 cache, but it's still a CPU of the same generation with the same fundamental limits in place. It's an open secret that AMD's Ryzen architecture is the way forward, and the smart money is on one Zen CCX module containing four cores running eight threads making up the CPU component of the next-gen APUs in the PC space. Implementation will vary - perhaps dramatically so on a console - but the current Ryzen processors are based on two CCXs in a single package, opening the door to four, six and eight core processors, depending on which bits AMD chooses to disable. All decent AM4 motherboards allow the user the choice of disabling CCXs, so we took a Ryzen 7 1700, and ran it as a quad-core part with one CCX.

We're didn't go in expecting to deliver anything like firm benchmarks, more an indication of what Ryzen is capable of on gaming workloads that have vexed the current-gen machines. Indeed, there are many reasons why our results with our Ryzen candidate may be lower than expected - there's none of the to-the-silicon optimisation console developers like to pursue, while AMD itself has stated that library PC games require updates to get the most out of the new architecture. On top of that, the PC versions don't have access to the stripped back APIs used on consoles, meaning further, additional overhead. Regardless, the results on their own terms impress.

Take The Witcher 3, for example. It's a title very much based on current-gen constraints, targeting 30Hz on consoles - a frame-rate objective it generally managed to hit after several patches. In general gameplay in the open world, our Ryzen candidate hits 100-120fps once GPU limits are effectively removed. In our CPU-busting Novigrad City benchmark, we're still at 80 to 90fps or thereabouts.

Just Cause 3? The same kind of physics work that bludgeons the console Jaguar cores into submission occupies an area between 55 to 80fps. It's a transformative experience, and it's identical to the kind of frame-rates we get from Assassin's Creed Unity in its busiest, most NPC-heavy scenes - and this title is important, in our view. It was a first-gen try-out of a new level of world simulation: flawed and limited in some respects but a genuine attempt to kick off a generational leap in world fidelity. There's a strong argument that owing to console hardware constraints, we never got to see where further iterations of that technology would have led us.

Test results with a four core, eight thread Ryzen are promising - but the sobering reality is that PC benchmarking actually sees it fall some way short of a mainstream Core i5 overall, performance zigzagging between i3 and i5 levels at any given point, depending on the content. Even the Pentium G4560 puts in a stern challenge here - not quite what we expected when we were hoping for something more akin to a mini i7. On a superficial level, it illustrates how wide the gulf is between PC and console CPU power, but on the other hand, bearing in mind Jaguar's low performance level, developers have extracted much more from it than is possible in the PC space, and we'd expect the same from Ryzen. And we can't rule out the console manufacturers spinning their own custom variant, of course.

I guess we might actually get a lot more NPC's and things happening in those empty open worlds. And a lot more interaction within those worlds.

 

[Dontero]

Jeez, that seems like a dead giveaway by Sony of the PS5 launch assuming the drop is the result of intial loss on new hardware.To me that screams fall 2020 launch.

I think your assumption is wrong:

They will not sell consoles at price lower price than it is produced. PS3 days are gone and no one wants to do that anymore. Why would they ? They will be taking off the shelf parts. Secondly: Do you think that GTA6 released in first year of PS5 will sell as much as GTA6 released in mid life of ps4 ?

That drop could be easily explained by lower amount of new consoles and most of games generally selling less as new generation starts, which means 2019 PS5 holiday release, especially because they those stuff is in quarters meaning that up until not start of. Which means that Q1 2020 is for basically end of 2019.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

This is GREAT news. It's unfortunate that the PS4 Pro and X1X couldn't get some Ryzen tech incorporated.

Nevertheless, PS5 should have a 4K/30 fps target with an option for 60fps at lower resolution.

 

[mckmas8808]

And HERE WE GO!!!!!

 

[mckmas8808]

Jeez, that seems like a dead giveaway by Sony of the PS5 launch assuming the drop is the result of intial loss on new hardware.To me that screams fall 2020 launch.

But where is the March 2020 forecast? Did they leave that out intentionally to "throw" us off?

 

[GoldenEye98]

I think your assumption is wrong:

They will not sell consoles at price lower price than it is produced. PS3 days are gone and no one wants to do that anymore. Why would they ? They will be taking off the shelf parts. Secondly: Do you think that GTA6 released in first year of PS5 will sell as much as GTA6 released in mid life of ps4 ?

A drop in profit doesn't necessarily mean that are losing money per PS5. It could just be they aren't making as much as they were per console with PS4. Which is very likely given margins on PS4 now are higher than what PS5 will be at the start.

That drop could be easily explained by lower amount of new consoles and most of games generally selling less as new generation starts, which means 2019 PS5 holiday release, especially because they those stuff is in quarters meaning that up until not start of. Which means that Q1 2020 is for basically end of 2019.

There is a gap there in their estimates with nothing for 2019 but I dunno....it just seems to soon for me. I'm still not counting out a Spring 2020 launch.

 

[LordOfChaos]

It's been said that on 7nm, Ryzen cores will be as large as Jaguar was on 28nm, so 8 cores is feasible.

If they keep it over 3GHz (between the fab shrink and the need for lower power cancelling each other out), it's going to be a sizable upgrade over Jaguar. One Jaguar core is worth under 900 score on GB4, 8 with perfect scaling are just 5000, this is bested by even tablets and smartphones by 2:1 now. How slow they are by now might be understated when people just know it's an ambiguous limit to devs. 8 Zen cores should be 30,000+ for contrast.

Any clock speed they manage over that target is gravy on top, and then there's hardware goodies, like maybe they do hardware based draw calls like the XBO X.

I think late 2019/2020 is about right if it goes for 400USD, 2018 feels too early.


If they do BC, and they really should as the architectures are so similar, they could catch the PS4s wind rather than starting anew.

 

[GoldenEye98]

There is this part in the article which is a bit of a downer:

What's curious is that Sony's work is with the first generation version of the Ryzen core, while a 2019/2020 release date for a new console would fit in with the timeframe of AMD's second-gen iteration of the technology. However, the choice of technologies available to console manufacturers is based on what's available in a set time-frame and where the system architects want to spend time and effort in terms of bespoke customisations. And while the next-gen revision of Ryzen is likely to be available when new console hardware arrives, AMD's initial focus is on desktop and server versions of the technology - not the more integrated designs that end up in the APU products, which in the case of the Ryzen 3 2200G and Ryzen 5 2400Garrived almost a year after the initial Ryzen parts.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's been said that on 7nm, Ryzen cores will be as large as Jaguar was on 28nm, so 8 cores is feasible.

If they keep it over 3GHz (between the fab shrink and the need for lower power cancelling each other out), it's going to be a sizable upgrade over Jaguar. One Jaguar core is worth under 900 score on GB4, 8 with perfect scaling are just 5000, this is bested by even tablets and smartphones by 2:1 now. How slow they are by now might be understated when people just know it's an ambiguous limit to devs. 8 Zen cores should be 30,000+ for contrast.

Any clock speed they manage over that target is gravy on top, and then there's hardware goodies, like maybe they do hardware based draw calls like the XBO X.

I think late 2019/2020 is about right if it goes for 400USD, 2018 feels too early.


If they do BC, and they really should as the architectures are so similar, they could catch the PS4s wind rather than starting anew.

Thanks for that break down. Gets me more excited about the future.

 

[LordOfChaos]

There is this part in the article which is a bit of a downer:

I was just going to quote that lol. But yeah, no Zen 2 (or even Zen+?) by appearances, or the slim hope of sneaking Zen 3 in there.

Unless these are still referencing dev kits. If it's a 2020ish launch I hope they use the time to get to Zen 2 at least.

 

[Breakage]

Well, SIE CEO John Kodera today said that PS4 is entering the final phase of its life cycle, so this news isn't surprising. I still think PS5 in 2019 is absurd. 2020 or even 2021 would be better. I mean, it's not as if the PS4 is on its last legs and we're seeing games clearly crippled by hardware limitations.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well, SIE CEO John Kodera today said that PS4 is entering the final phase of its life cycle, so this news isn't surprising. I still think PS5 in 2019 is absurd. 2020 or even 2021 would be better. I mean, it's not as if the PS4 is on its last legs and we're seeing games clearly crippled by hardware limitations.

It's so funny you say that, but you are 100% correct. GOW just came out last month and it blew people away graphically. And Spiderman looks over the top great AND it's open world. Please don't rush this Sony. Wait until Fall 2020 and put a Zen2 equivalent in the PS5.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Well, SIE CEO John Kodera today said that PS4 is entering the final phase of its life cycle, so this news isn't surprising. I still think PS5 in 2019 is absurd. 2020 or even 2021 would be better. I mean, it's not as if the PS4 is on its last legs and we're seeing games clearly crippled by hardware limitations.

It's so funny you say that, but you are 100% correct. GOW just came out last month and it blew people away graphically. And Spiderman looks over the top great AND it's open world. Please don't rush this Sony. Wait until Fall 2020 and put a Zen2 equivalent in the PS5.

Yeah, it doesn't yet feel like the late 7th gen, where games really felt strangled in scope by the hardware, both in world size and simulation as well as increasing numbers of games going sub 720p and sub 30fps just to get going on them.

The 8th gen could potentially have more juice squeezed out, but 2020 feels perfect to me, not cutting them off too early and not leaving games gasping for new hardware, and hopefully they can sneak Zen 2 in by then, maybe some future GPU pipeline features, and also a more mature node to trade more efficiency for performance, i.e Intel is having a hard time matching 14nm+++ with 10nm because the former is tuned so well.

 

[Ar¢tos]

There is this part in the article which is a bit of a downer:

Sony likes to customize their hardware, we will probably get something between Zen 1-2 for cpu and something between vega - navi for gpu.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Sony likes to customize their hardware, we will probably get something between Zen 1-2 for cpu and something between vega - navi for gpu.

It also sounds plausible that much of Ryzen 2's IPC gain will be the memory controller, and if like the PS4 it's going through the GPU first, it's probably going to be a bespoke Sony controller anyways?

But I'd still like Ryzen 2 for all of the hundreds of little architectural improvements they put in to eke out edge case gains, by 2020 I'm really hoping it goes 2 with Sony enhancements.

 

[Housh]

I'll buy a PS5 for Christmas 2020.

 

[makaveli60]

Yeah, it doesn't yet feel like the late 7th gen, where games really felt strangled in scope by the hardware, both in world size and simulation as well as increasing numbers of games going sub 720p and sub 30fps just to get going on them.

The 8th gen could potentially have more juice squeezed out, but 2020 feels perfect to me, not cutting them off too early and not leaving games gasping for new hardware, and hopefully they can sneak Zen 2 in by then, maybe some future GPU pipeline features, and also a more mature node to trade more efficiency for performance, i.e Intel is having a hard time matching 14nm+++ with 10nm because the former is tuned so well.

Yeah, fall 2020 seems perfect to me as well. Just as others said God of War just came out, showing that the PS4 still has some potential, and yes, there's Spiderman, TLoU2 etc. that will make our faces melt. Also despite everyone saying that the Jaguar CPUs suck, Assassin's Creed Origins does some very impressive world simulation. I can't imagine what will nextgen be like.

 

[Dontero]

There is this part in the article which is a bit of a downer:

Ryzen 2xxx just got out like weeks ago it is no wonder they worked with technology they actually had in hands instead of paper. They will probably move now to 2xxx and for PS5 they will probably use 7nm Zen2.

 

[bitbydeath]

Jeez, that seems like a dead giveaway by Sony of the PS5 launch assuming the drop is the result of intial loss on new hardware.To me that screams fall 2020 launch.

Yep, there goes my 2019 prediction.

 

[bitbydeath]

I think your assumption is wrong:

They will not sell consoles at price lower price than it is produced. PS3 days are gone and no one wants to do that anymore. Why would they ? They will be taking off the shelf parts. Secondly: Do you think that GTA6 released in first year of PS5 will sell as much as GTA6 released in mid life of ps4 ?

That drop could be easily explained by lower amount of new consoles and most of games generally selling less as new generation starts, which means 2019 PS5 holiday release, especially because they those stuff is in quarters meaning that up until not start of. Which means that Q1 2020 is for basically end of 2019.

I don’t think anyone’s expecting a crazy loss like PS3 had with hundreds of $$$ so they could push blu-ray.

It’d likely be a loss similar to that of PS1, PS2 and PS4.

 

[Insane Metal]

I'll stick to my end of 2020 prediction for the PS5.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Yeah, fall 2020 seems perfect to me as well. Just as others said God of War just came out, showing that the PS4 still has some potential, and yes, there's Spiderman, TLoU2 etc. that will make our faces melt. Also despite everyone saying that the Jaguar CPUs suck, Assassin's Creed Origins does some very impressive world simulation. I can't imagine what will nextgen be like.

Yup...One core of Ryzen would already almost match 7 cores of Jaguar. The reductionists say it'll just be PC on high and we already see it, but it's not that, it's never been like that, it's developers that should already be using 7 cores to good effect to squeeze anything out of Jaguar, and now getting so much more performance out of each core on a fixed hardware platform, so they know everyone will have those 8 Ryzen cores, that amount of RAM, etc, and so can tailor their worlds to it.

I can't wait to see what first parties do with that.

 

[Shin]

Some can breath easy again I guess and looking at my situation that applies for me as well.
On another note these 2 articles could go well with this thread I think.
https://www.dualshockers.com/ps5-fall-2020-npd-analyst/
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...focusing-on-psn-and-ps4-games-until-2021.aspx

 

[mckmas8808]

Some can breath easy again I guess and looking at my situation that applies for me as well.
On another note these 2 articles could go well with this thread I think.
https://www.dualshockers.com/ps5-fall-2020-npd-analyst/
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...focusing-on-psn-and-ps4-games-until-2021.aspx

2021?

 

[bitbydeath]

2021?

PS4 will still be a focus for games for at least a year after PS5 releases.

Sony never drop support straight away.

 

[LordOfChaos]

PS4 will still be a focus for games for at least a year after PS5 releases.

Sony never drop support straight away.

Especially as the architectural layout is so similar, plus the userbase, the PS4 will probably have one of the better lives as an n-1 gen console. Not developing for two things that are worlds apart like the PS3-PS4, PS2-PS3, PS1-PS2...Come to think about it this will be the most similar Sony generations have been.

If it shares GNM as the API it should keep getting "may as well" ports for a long time, until games are tailored to the higher end CPUs of the PS5 a few years in and become inviable to cut back for the PS4.

 

[DavidGzz]

March 2020 $500. Pls.

 

[Insane Metal]

March 2020 $500. Pls.

If 500$ at least give us a powerful machine. Please.

 

[David Ricardo]

I just want Sony not to come with an objectively worse option than Microsoft like Microsoft did last gen (less power/higher price).

I want something I can buy:
Higher price but more power
Same price same power
Marginally less power but 100€ cheaper

More power and cheaper would be best, but I understand lightning doesn't strike twice in the same place.

 

[DavidGzz]

If 500$ at least give us a powerful machine. Please.

Yes, that's why I want it to be $500, I don't want them to skimp on power.

 

[shark sandwich]

cool, I take it Ryzen is a much better choice than the Jaguar CPU"s in current gen consoles.

Jaguar was underwhelming even when PS4 launched. It’s a CPU core designed for netbooks (remember those?). Ryzen would be a massive leap forward.

 

[Dural]

Yup...One core of Ryzen would already almost match 7 cores of Jaguar.

WTF? No, not even close. Posts like these are going to have people expecting a hell of a lot more than what we'll be getting next gen.

Expect a similar, maybe slightly higher, increase cpu wise as from gen 7 to gen 8. Don't be expecting high end desktop class CPU in a console APU.

 

[Dontero]

Yup...One core of Ryzen would already almost match 7 cores of Jaguar.

That is false. Even worse than Jaguar FX series would be close to that. On average FX series is 50% slower than Ryznen at same clocks while Jaguar is faster than FX series by around 20% on same clocks.

So assuming PC ryzen is clocked at 4Ghz while PS5 one will be clocked around 2Ghz that would be 4 times as fast for ALL CORES.

WTF? No, not even close. Posts like these are going to have people expecting a hell of a lot more than what we'll be getting next gen.

Expect a similar, maybe slightly higher, increase cpu wise as from gen 7 to gen 8. Don't be expecting high end desktop class CPU in a console APU.

While his comparison is retarded 8 core Ryzen on 7nm won't take much more space than 8 core jaguar and won't be more expensive to make (roughly speaking). So yes 8 core zen is definitely a go not 4 core. It will be way lower clocked though.

 

[LordOfChaos]

WTF? No, not even close. Posts like these are going to have people expecting a hell of a lot more than what we'll be getting next gen.

Expect a similar, maybe slightly higher, increase cpu wise as from gen 7 to gen 8. Don't be expecting high end desktop class CPU in a console APU.

That is false. Even worse than Jaguar FX series would be close to that. On average FX series is 50% slower than Ryznen at same clocks while Jaguar is faster than FX series by around 20% on same clocks.

So assuming PC ryzen is clocked at 4Ghz while PS5 one will be clocked around 2Ghz that would be 4 times as fast for ALL CORES.


While his comparison is retarded 8 core Ryzen on 7nm won't take much more space than 8 core jaguar and won't be more expensive to make (roughly speaking). So yes 8 core zen is definitely a go not 4 core. It will be way lower clocked though.

Instead of hand wavy estimates lets work off what numbers we have. Jaguar @ 1.6GHz, generously 900 single core, 2500 multicore for 4 cores, with perfect scaling that's ~5000 for 8, and one is OS reserved.

That's 4375 for 7 cores with perfect scaling, which it doesn't have in one cluster of 4 let alone two clusters put together.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/8231565

Ryzen @ 3GHz, that's 4500 single core...That's not "retarded" (and calm down on that) to call close to the performance of all 7 usable Jaguar cores. Even if it's not there without boost, I did say almost. ~6x the total CPU power isn't out of bounds, I'd call the high end of 6x faster in total close to 7 Jaguar cores on one.

https://browser.geekbench.com/v4/cpu/8368258


That's desktops you say, but these laptops on 45W CPUs only on 14nm do the same. With 7nms promised reductions, if it can do that on 30-35W for the CPU that would be fine.

I don't know why we're talking about "at the same clocks", as key architectural features of Ryzen (and FX) like a lengthened pipeline over Jaguar are for operation at higher clocks. It's an interesting factoid that Jaguar was better than FX technically at IPC, but it was unable to clock as high so that was moot.

Ryzen clocks way higher than 3 on desktops, it'll need lower power for a console, but 7nm will cancel some of that. imo 3GHz is a high but not too lofty expectation. If it's down to 2, of course this goes out the window, but I hope it's not that clock constrained.



Really hard to overstate how slow even 8 Jaguar cores are in comparison to just about everything high end and modern. Phones included.

 

[TannerDemoz]

Some can breath easy again I guess and looking at my situation that applies for me as well.
On another note these 2 articles could go well with this thread I think.
https://www.dualshockers.com/ps5-fall-2020-npd-analyst/
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/...focusing-on-psn-and-ps4-games-until-2021.aspx

This is just clever PR. Isn't Sony technically still supporting the PS3 now?

 

[LordOfChaos]

This is just clever PR. Isn't Sony technically still supporting the PS3 now?

And it still got games into 2014 and 2015, I think that's a reasonable comparison. If this launches 2020, it would still have games focused on it through 2021, maybe 2022, especially cross platforms as it's more similar than the PS3/PS4 were.

 

[Dontero]

I don't know why we're talking about "at the same clocks", as key architectural features of Ryzen (and FX) like a lengthened pipeline over Jaguar are for operation at higher clocks. It's an interesting factoid that Jaguar was better than FX technically at IPC, but it was unable to clock as high so that was moot.

Ryzen clocks way higher than 3 on desktops, it'll need lower power for a console, but 7nm will cancel some of that. imo 3GHz is a high but not too lofty expectation. If it's down to 2, of course this goes out the window, but I hope it's not that clock constrained.

Really hard to overstate how slow even 8 Jaguar cores are in comparison to just about everything high end and modern. Phones included.

Because consoles have STRICT power limits. 3Ghz Ryzen 2xxx is pushing around average 75-95W which is roughly HALF of what modern console can run at and again roughly speaking GPUs are the one that suck more power, that also says nothing about other components of console. Which means budget for TDP for CPU is roughly 30-40W max and frankly speaking even that is imo hitting high. Jaguar cores were strictly made for mobile hardware with very very low TDP, Ryzen on other hand isn't like Jaguar.

Which means you will not see Ryzen clocked at 3Ghz unless 7nm will be magical process and they will be able to run 8 cores @ 3Ghz in 30-40W max tdp. So no, roughly speaking you are looking at 50% increase on all cores because you will be looking at 2,5Ghz 8 core ryzen. not some 7 times or more like you claim.
Finally systetics are completely MEANINGLESS to game performance.

Aside from that you are forgetting this will be an APU and all those Ryzens running 3ghz + are single die chips while PS5/xbox2 apu will be cpu + much bigger gpu than AMD APUs on PCs moving more heat which means clocks will need to be further scaled down.

edit2:

If you would have 8 core Ryzen running at 4Ghz then i would agree with you

 

[LordOfChaos]

Because consoles have STRICT power limits. 3Ghz Ryzen 2xxx is pushing around average 75-95W which is roughly HALF of what modern console can run at and again roughly speaking GPUs are the one that suck more power, that also says nothing about other components of console. Which means budget for TDP for CPU is roughly 30-40W max and frankly speaking even that is imo hitting high. Jaguar cores were strictly made for mobile hardware with very very low TDP, Ryzen on other hand isn't like Jaguar.

As I mentioned, maybe edited after yours, even 45W power constrained laptops are hitting those post 4K marks, on 14nm.

If you agree 30-40W is a reasonable CPU power budget (could also always launch with a higher initial TDP than the PS4), we're getting somewhere...Those desktop parts are running at 3.7-3.9GHz boosts more often then not due to the extra cooling, it's not a direct comparison with laptop parts that return to base faster.


Clock speed and power aren't linear, which is why few hundred MHz gains going to desktops come with such large wattage increases.

Even if 3GHz is a touch on the optimistic side, I'm seeing 2GHz as pessimistic given where laptops hit sustained clocks at their 45W post-boost TDPs.

 

[Dontero]

Even if 3GHz is a touch on the optimistic side, I'm seeing 2GHz as pessimistic given where laptops hit sustained clocks at their 45W post-boost TDPs.

Yeah i also believe 3Ghz is not going to happen. 2,5Ghz is my prediction which still would be huge difference, just not that huge as someone people claim. Though we don't know exactly what will Zen2 bring to table. Maybe it will run thanks to 7nm 5Ghz so then 3Ghz should not be an issue in consoles.

 

[TheMikado]

Yeah i also believe 3Ghz is not going to happen. 2,5Ghz is my prediction which still would be huge difference, just not that huge as someone people claim. Though we don't know exactly what will Zen2 bring to table. Maybe it will run thanks to 7nm 5Ghz so then 3Ghz should not be an issue in consoles.

Have you seen what’s going on in the AMD space?

AMD is churning out PS4 level APUs at sub 12W

Zen2 at 7nm is expected to reduce power by 60%. It’s entirely feasible the CPU alone to be under 15TDP mid 3GHz and 8core. We could potentially see an 7nm 8 core Zen 2 Vega 64 APU for under 65w.

We are on the cusp a computing revolution in terms of size and power efficiency.

 

[Dontero]

Have you seen what’s going on in the AMD space?

AMD is churning out PS4 level APUs at sub 12W

Zen2 at 7nm is expected to reduce power by 60%. It’s entirely feasible the CPU alone to be under 15TDP mid 3GHz and 8core. We could potentially see an 7nm 8 core Zen 2 Vega 64 APU for under 65w.

We are on the cusp a computing revolution in terms of size and power efficiency.

1. No AMD apu has sub 12W TDP. recent 2400g just for CPU alone (let alone whole apu) has around 50W consumption and that is 4 core zen.
2. This is now how 7nm works. 60% power reduction provided you will keep exact same clocks and you do not improve design churning in more transistors. Zen 7nm will also be probably around 90W TDP because they will increase clocks. Which is why we assume 2-2,5Ghz clocks maybe even 3Ghz if standard desktop will run at 5ghz.
3. No way in hell 8Core zen + anything vega related let alone 64 level will take under 65W.

You are way out of bourderies of reason for 7nm. It is huge jump that is for sure but not as huge as you claim.

My prediction:
- 8 core zen2 (probably no hyper threading as there is no reason for it in console) running at 2,5Ghz
- Navi mid range gpu. While dies and size of chip will be reduce due to 7nm and imprvoed architecture it should run above vega64.
- memory is rely hard to guess. It is now ultra expensive. So i am guessing 16Gb or 12GB but i would be surprised if they would kept it at 8GB and extra exclusive slow 2-3 gb for system and apps. It also depends really on which tech will be used. If it will be GDDR6 then you can't expect much memory, if they will get HBM2 with 3d stacking then it can go even as high as 32GB but i have serious doubts they would go for it. 16GB imo is my prediction.

 

[mckmas8808]

Have you seen what’s going on in the AMD space?

AMD is churning out PS4 level APUs at sub 12W

Zen2 at 7nm is expected to reduce power by 60%. It’s entirely feasible the CPU alone to be under 15TDP mid 3GHz and 8core. We could potentially see an 7nm 8 core Zen 2 Vega 64 APU for under 65w.

We are on the cusp a computing revolution in terms of size and power efficiency.

I like you dude, but no way this is true. Right?.....

 

[TheMikado]

1. No AMD apu has sub 12W TDP. recent 2400g just for CPU alone (let alone whole apu) has around 50W consumption and that is 4 core zen.
2. This is now how 7nm works. 60% power reduction provided you will keep exact same clocks and you do not improve design churning in more transistors. Zen 7nm will also be probably around 90W TDP because they will increase clocks. Which is why we assume 2-2,5Ghz clocks maybe even 3Ghz if standard desktop will run at 5ghz.
3. No way in hell 8Core zen + anything vega related let alone 64 level will take under 65W.

You are way out of bourderies of reason for 7nm. It is huge jump that is for sure but not as huge as you claim.

My prediction:
- 8 core zen2 (probably no hyper threading as there is no reason for it in console) running at 2,5Ghz
- Navi mid range gpu. While dies and size of chip will be reduce due to 7nm and imprvoed architecture it should run above vega64.
- memory is rely hard to guess. It is now ultra expensive. So i am guessing 16Gb or 12GB but i would be surprised if they would kept it at 8GB and extra exclusive slow 2-3 gb for system and apps. It also depends really on which tech will be used. If it will be GDDR6 then you can't expect much memory, if they will get HBM2 with 3d stacking then it can go even as high as 32GB but i have serious doubts they would go for it. 16GB imo is my prediction.

No you aren’t up to date:

1) AMD v1000 embedded APUs are as low as 12W as well as all their mobile variants.
Further the 2200g and 2400g have GE low power variants at 30-35W still in low to mid 3GHz.

2) The low power 12W APUs already run in the mid to high 2Ghz with the 30-35W in the low to mid 3GHz. They are Already well below the power specs at 3GHz now so it doesn’t even make sense to run them below 3GHz.

3) We already have 4core + Vega 10 running at 3GHz on 4 cores 8 threads right now literally this is last years hardware I’m talking about running as low as 12W on lower clocks and 30-35 on higher clocks. It’s already being done.

As far as Navi I doubt it will have the manufacturing capacity so 7nm Vega is more likely with Zen2. Basically whatever goes into Zen 2 APUs is what we will see.
As far as RAM 16GB GDDR6 with 4GB HBM stacked on the APU.

 

[TheMikado]

I like you dude, but no way this is true. Right?.....

It’s already theoretically possible.
As I’ve pointed out we already have Xbox One level APUs running at 12W from last year and that’s on 14nm not even 7nm. If they got the same chip in 7nm you could be talking Xbox one level at 5-6W. So yeah I think it’s feasible.