Unless it’s 180 minutes long and ticks a few boxes on the checklist. Then you MUST play it.What i time to be alive. Gaming journos telling you to not play games.
I think that would be the best parallel, there's a reason why Jordan Peterson is only invited and followed by alt-rightists and neo-reactionnaries: he tells them what they want to hear, but not the whole truth.
There's no such thing as "censorship" on Steam
Wow, what a ridiculous piece.
Valve didn't cave. That's all that matters. At least someone finally showed some balls and said we're gonna run things the way we're gonna run things. Fuck off if you don't like it.
No one has the whole truth. The more you preemptively shut yourself down from other perspectives, though, the worse off your own will tend to be.
False. Censorship is nearly omnipresent and it certainly is present on Steam, enforced by their terms of service and guidelines. Censorship is present here as well, based on our own terms of service and it is also directly informed by what the advertising industry permits ads to display on, since NeoGAF is maintained through ad revenue. A website that was supported entirely by, for example, Patreon, would still deal with censorship imposed by the ToS of the webhost in terms of illegal content etc., but less directly censorship pressure would still exist to conform to the standards of the Patreon patrons' acceptability for content. There is always censorship; it's just not a boogieman.
No you don't, and that's good. Because if you were a pedophile advocate or a hate-incitation group, I'm very glad that everywhere in the world and since democracy, I'm glad there are institution coming after you. So yes you may be an alt-right if you think people have right to do antisemitic propaganda because you don't know the difference between the basic concepts of freedom and chaos.
Jordan Peterson is alt right? Your world view is massively warped, are you part of the resetera crowd?I think that would be the best parallel, there's a reason why Jordan Peterson is only invited and followed by alt-rightists and neo-reactionnaries: he tells them what they want to hear, but not the whole truth.
There's no such thing as "censorship" on Steam, I don't really care that people are so degenerate (uneducated by not fault of their own) that they don't understand basic principles that republican societies are built on, but censorship only applies to speech that is legal and protect by freedom as for every other rights, what is illegal however is exactly where freedom insures that people can not harass, defame, aggress others...
No you don't, and that's good. Because if you were a pedophile advocate or a hate-incitation group, I'm very glad that everywhere in the world and since democracy, I'm glad there are institution coming after you. So yes you may be an alt-right if you think people have right to do antisemitic propaganda because you don't know the difference between the basic concepts of freedom and chaos.
Oh yeah I so remember the days in the 90s when people supported pedophile advocacy, racist propaganda and public bomb threats...what an era...which never existed and just shows how frighteningly ignorant you are about basic concepts of freedom of speech, just freedom in fact.
there is nothing on there for long that is against the law. What these people want is that they d code what should be on there and what not. By writing articles how a game is problematic and needs to be gone. Games like hatred or superseducer. They called to remove these games. Ironically these kind of games would have been vanished very fast from sales pages but their butthurt articles made them gather attentionThat's exactly true. Fuck useless parasites that think they have no responsibilities and countries are build on cash and iPods. There's a reason why we have laws, justice and regulations.
catering to the alt-right. valve is now the jordan peterson of gaming lol.
I think that would be the best parallel, there's a reason why Jordan Peterson is only invited and followed by alt-rightists and neo-reactionnaries: he tells them what they want to hear, but not the whole truth.
Jordan Peterson is alt right? Your world view is massively warped, are you part of the resetera crowd?
It's such a weird experience when seeing an extreme leftist spouting the same nonsense as the extreme right.
Catering to the Alt-Right by not pulling games you dislike. Right. On top of that, you can say about Peterson whatever you like, but he's generally hated by the Alt-Right and doesn't align ideologically with them.
there is nothing on there for long that is against the law. What these people want is that they d code what should be on there and what not. By writing articles how a game is problematic and needs to be gone. Games like hatred or superseducer. They called to remove these games. Ironically these kind of games would have been vanished very fast from sales pages but their butthurt articles made them gather attention
Yes they did define their guidelines but eople also call hatred hatespech and Superseducer misogynisti. While I think its harmlessJordan Peterson is a neo-reactionnary, that's a tad more complex and new, I never said he was alt-right, he simply caters to the alt-right since that's constituent of a good part of his audience an people who are influenced by him.
Well that's the point: freedom works in both protected/sanctioned way and liability. If there was any debates as to whether Hatred or Superseducer should be on the store, it's because Steam didn't define their guidelines well enough so that there's no debate and it's either definitely authorised or removed
You know what the problem is? It's not always about hate, racism and pedophilia. Most cases are not clear cut. On top of that, once you have the mechanisms of control is very difficult not to abuse them to favour your own perspective.
It's easy to see why some things are bad in hindsight but if society didn't at least allow the sharing of ideas that bring new paradigms, there would be no progress at all. Let's say we decided that idea control is fair game... Do you think any social advance would be possible? Of course not, the status quo would suppress it just because it's different and threatens it's very existence.
Freedom is about having to tolerate a lot of stupid things being said and done, just to make sure a single good idea or action can exist. Sometimes there needs to be trash in order to give gold a chance to exist. This is unavoidable because a lot of the times its not easy to distinguish one of another immediately.
And the very core of this all is the fact that neither you nor me are truly capable of define exactly what should society say, read, write or even play. I'm glad Valve is humble enough to accept that.
Why would I want a small private group be able to make decisions for me and influence what I can and can't do? It just doesn't make sense to me. If society doesn't want waifus in games, it will find a way to collectively stop them. However, I suspect society is in fact OK with waifus being a part of gaming on account that games with waifus still sell very good and the fact that people like Jack Thompson has failed miserably to change that.
Yes they did define their guidelines but eople also call hatred hatespech and Superseducer misogynisti. While I think its harmless
These days racist, sexist hate speech has lost so much power because its being way too overused.
And this is because of the Internet, how can you regulate that? Well Facebook, Tumblr, Twitter or whatever should have applied and exacted the LAW, meaning they should have blocked or ban people resorting to intimidation, harassement, verbal abuse or defamation when they didn't agree with others. Except they didn't and so now we're in a situation where people on the other side believe that since it's okay for the left to spew bullshit or abuse, then it must mean racism or sexism don't exist anymore, and you can spew false facts of discrimination.
Nah, I think it's more along the lines of...Except they didn't and so now we're in a situation where people on the other side believe that since it's okay for the left to spew bullshit or abuse, then it must mean racism or sexism don't exist anymore, and you can spew false facts of discrimination.
ah yes protect your poor children from the evil boobies. I am so glad that I never had parents like this. We can see real boobs in our morning shows. Because it was something very natural.I agree with Eurogamer.
This move will ensure that my kids will never use Steam in my house. The "Apple-like" status quo that Evilore mentioned, is what I am looking for with both myself and my kids.
I have already seen more "XXX" stuff pop up on the best-seller and trending lists. I don't need that in my life.
Are you kidding me? They ban left and right sadly only the one side if you have a verified account and suggest that white pregnant women should abort their white male babies than nothing is happening. Also Twitter especially is shadowbannning people on mass you do not even notice this until you check. Twitter is not a free speech zone anymore except for the left. They can say and harass everyone they want without any konsequenzes.
I applaud Steam for not going this route and let customers decide and not "journalists" or triggerd people. As for Facebook no Idea since I do not use it.
Nah, I think it's more along the lines of...
...during attempts to bring up facts, the Left shouts down anything -- science, history, shared culture, etc -- that disagrees with their ideology. They'll riot, actually. The reason why many people are touchy about issues of free speech is because we've watched people be butchered for exercising that right in recent history. This is not acceptable. If the Left is so concerned about safe spaces and the reduction of violence, they sure are going about it a funny way. You cannot silence someone's right to express an idea or question a norm. That is perhaps the most "Left" viewpoint that I can imagine, and yet it is being called into question... not by Right-wing zealots but by the Left establishment.
Who is saying "racism and sexism don't exist"? I don't think that's the argument on the Right. Most people on the Right (and in the Center) are grinding their teeth and wondering "why the heck can't we have a two-way conversation about this topic? How are you coming to the conclusion that everything is racist? Where is the evidence that things are imbalanced?". If they say this out loud, they are often shouted down as racists who don't believe the self-evident truth that white people control everything and minorities are oppressed.
I'm all for criticism. But when gaming journalists dogpile a company for not taking the particular moral stand that they wanted it to, that's sick.
Why not, you know, just do your job as a parent and checking what they're doing, instead delegating it to steam and making your kids everyone's problem?I agree with Eurogamer.
This move will ensure that my kids will never use Steam in my house. The "Apple-like" status quo that Evilore mentioned, is what I am looking for with both myself and my kids.
I have already seen more "XXX" stuff pop up on the best-seller and trending lists. I don't need that in my life.
If it's a public space in the US it would be held to the second amendement obligations (free speech) and censorship made illegal. The premise of what Eurogamer advocates for hinges on the corporation being a private entity that can do whatever it wants... but it should "want" what Eurogamer does otherwise it's incorrect and cue moral judgements on Valve.What's the end game here? All games will have to be approved by a Social Justice council? Valve will be declared a 'public good' and taken over by the government?
Why not, you know, just do your job as a parent and checking what they're doing, instead delegating it to steam and making your kids everyone's problem?
However the instant Valve starts curating, it will be considered tacitly approving every single piece of content on their service they didn't remove... which has very serious implications.
Is Eurogamer and friends' end-goal to bring back Steam Greenlight on crack with the opacity of GOG's curation system or even more (as consumer choice is problematic for them so even popular demand should not allow them in), and then once their favorite games inevitably get stuck in the curation pipeline (we very recently had the likes of Indivisibles denied from the Nintendo Switch) put out a few outraged articles to let those few chosen past the system?
That doesn't seem to be a sustainable model. It didn't help a lot of developers with the press at their side against GOG, PSN, Xbox Live and Nintendo.
You said you agree with eurogamer.???
You somehow managed to interpret incorrectly what I said.
They want to deplatform anything or anyone they disagree with.
Never said it was clear cut, we're not having a debates on fine lines when people are ignoring the basic workings of laws and political concepts. Control is not the problem as you underlined it, abuse is. So it's something upstream: it's called LAW, like the original tablet of laws in judaism, the law in the first athenian republic (Plato's Republic being the basic), the renaissance revision of mercantile laws and so on.
Control is something very complex to achieve without having it easily corrupted, but without control or rule, I could go out in the street and kill an old lady, that could defend herself with a bomb while child are being raped on the sides. I don't understand what is not fucking clear about that: you either want control in a way that allows for the maximum or rather the best conditions of freedom, or you're simply asking for chaos.
I agree with all that, but again, there is a vast difference between idea, concept, speech, influence, declaration, statement, discourse etc...but at the heart of it you're right: there's a need to allow a door open enough that some good idea passes but also limit the risk to too many wrong ones do.
I didn't call for a companies to decide, again I'm not american it's not even crossing my mind: I'm saying companies SHOULDN'T have a right, in fact they basically don't, in saying what's legal and what's not, the laws already defines that and they should simply respect it. My problem is that Steam seems to be trying not to respect it.
Whatever people call, they have a right, that doesn't mean anyone should cave into it. And you know why? Because people have completely forgotten the notion of enforced laws. It's been years that since SJWs have emerged, they've illegally infringe on the law and broken freedom of expression by using methods that are CONDEMNED by the law in the view of protecting rights: you don't have a rights to verbally harass, defame, verbally assault, intimidate to censor etc...which is what the radical left has been doing this past years without anyone doing anything.
And this is because of the Internet, how can you regulate that? Well Facebook, Tumblr, Twitter or whatever should have applied and exacted the LAW, meaning they should have blocked or ban people resorting to intimidation, harassement, verbal abuse or defamation when they didn't agree with others. Except they didn't and so now we're in a situation where people on the other side believe that since it's okay for the left to spew bullshit or abuse, then it must mean racism or sexism don't exist anymore, and you can spew false facts of discrimination.
I don't know man. You were the one mentioning hate and pedophilia. It sounded as your concern is mainly that.
When Valve says they will not publish illegal content, doesn't it mean that they will abide whatever applicable law? I don't see where they don't want to respect it.
I'm not an American either but I'm aware that they are a power player in this space and it is where Valve resides so their perspective seems to be very important for this case.
Gabe deciding for "no 'progressive' ban hammers on Steam".What is all of this about?
Wasn't it already the case?They would have done the same with games like Kingdom Come because they didn't like lead developer.
It's all about the culture war. The left pretty much controls Hollywood, books, music, TV. comics, education, hell, even sports reporting. They are afraid that people, especially children, might be exposed to non-leftist viewpoints in gaming. Never mind that most large companies are fully onboard, they are afraid of indie games, you might get another Minecraft with its outspoken creator
The Fuck are you taking about? It's the Right that's all about controlling with people see and think mostly backed by Religious Dogma.
Both sides are controlling, using different methods. The right tends to use religious dogma. The left tries to use false "moral" high grounds. Trying to insinuate that only one side does it (when both do it all the time) is disingenuous.
The Eurogamer article is slightly bizarre, not sure I like the direction they are going lately if I'm honest. They seem to think they are being funny on twitter now as well but just look like they are trying too hard.