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[MightyHedgehog]

Wow. Some of you are really still not over this eh?

Just don't buy the game if you don't like it, simple. It's not changing no matter how much you moan/slag them off.

Well, you cannot have a proper discussion forum if it's all suck and no fuck, if you catch my meaning. If all you want is a one-sided view on things, you should stick to hanging out on the official PR site comments sections where your view may be constantly reinforced by others who feel the same.

 

[Entryhazard]

No matter what, not having 60fps in a racing game is a crime against humanity

 

[mclem]

Wow. Some of you are really still not over this eh?

Just don't buy the game if you don't like it, simple. It's not changing no matter how much you moan/slag them off.

From seeing the gameplay vids the decision has been worth it IMO. Plus it looks smooth as silk. 30fps locked >>>> 60fps variable.

I didn't actually say I wasn't going to buy into the game, here. I'm trying to articulate why this is a disappointing explanation for the 30fps choice. I suspected I knew the reasons, this confirms them, and so I feel justified in expressing my views on the subject. Their priorities do not coincide with my own. That doesn't make it a bad game, and I'm not going to claim it as such. I may well enjoy it. But I'm confident that I'd enjoy it more if their priorities had shifted slightly.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

From what I have seen the game looks just fine and playable at 30FPS. Why are people saying all racing games need to be 60FPS?

This is more of a GT racer and not some arcade racer. GT is 30FPS is it not? (Never played the PS3 versions)

 

[mclem]

wasnt Motorstorm RC free at some point? I remember downloading and playing it but never paid money for it.

It's been on Plus.

 

[Aquamarine]

"The important thing about micro-transactions is, if they ever influence the game design or the progression then yes, there can be a negative influence," Rustchynsky added. "But that's absolutely not what we've done with DriveClub. Progression is quick. You unlock cars rapidly. If you're part of a club you get access to those things super quick."

Why dance around the issue and try to justify policies that are generally well-known as anti-consumer?

Regardless of how you implement it, it sets a bad precedent that can EASILY be exploited when made the norm in the industry.



Eh, I guess he's probably put into a bind by Sony management. But still!

 

[danmaku]

"We don't want you to use microtransactions... so we put microtransactions in the game".

Yup, totally makes sense.

 

[Lactose_Intolerant]

'Micro transactions don't affect design' is extremely easy to say. In fact, pretty much everyone says it. Generally doesn't work out that way though.

The last line was the best.

"The proof will be when people play DriveClub. They'll see it's a non-issue when they get their hands-on and start to play the game. It's not intrusive. It's almost invisible. It's something we actually kind of hide a little bit."

Buy our game and find out yourself!

 

[EvB]

Free to play and 30fps but with shinier graphics?

I wonder if this is a game the is being geared up for Playstation now, where 60fps mostly goes to waste anyway.

 

[rrc1594]

I hope this game lives up to the hype

 

[pixlexic]

Does that mean that these 2 games aren't great racers then?:

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-360/project-gotham-racing-4

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox/rallisport-challenge-2

Seriously...

Different time .. Different standards.

In a racer now days anything under 30 is a bad decision period. There has been too many racers at 60 fps To go back.

 

[SolsticeZero]

wasnt Motorstorm RC free at some point? I remember downloading and playing it but never paid money for it.

If you're in the US they did a promotion with Scion where they gave out the game for free with some Scion branding on it.

Different time .. Different standards.

In a racer now days anything under 30 is a bad decision period. There has been too many racers at 60 fps To go back.

Bullshit. That's like saying you can't go back and play Doom 1 after playing a modern FPS. It's just a readjustment is all.

No matter what, not having 60fps in a racing game is a crime against humanity

Then don't play it? It doesn't bother me, so I look forward to playing it.

 

[Drek]

I don't care about how detailed the cars are, this is a game, not a museum. Give me my 60FPS or at the very least, some kind of 720p 60FPS option.

Because muddy visuals when 720p gets upscaled to 1080p has no impact on gameplay, right?

Framerate is a no win situation for Evolution. This is at it's core a launch title engine for new hardware. People expect it to 1. run at full HD native (1080p), 2. look like a significant generational leap in visuals and 3. run at a full 60 fps locked, all the time, every second of every race.

You can't have all three for what is basically launch code at it's core, or even year one code. We could have 1080p/60fps and get a game like Forza 5 that is basically Forza 4 HD, or we can have a real next generation racer that has to sacrifice something. Both resolution and frame rate impact game play, but resolution also impacts visuals so if you're picking one or the other the smart choice is resolution.

That decision is only compounded further by just the level of technical cuts they'd have to make to get 60 fps locked, and if it isn't locked all those game play advantages disappear as dropping frames is far more intrusive to good controls than just a lower refresh rate. Even for racers any sane person should want 30 fps locked over 45-60 fps variable.

So either they could have released this game with zero intention of it being a success as it would look like a prettied up last generation game, or they could rely on it's style being a legitimate homage to PGR which played just fine at 30 fps with PGR4, and having killer visuals that help to move next generation software and hardware. I think it's pretty obvious what anyone who wants to keep making video games for a living will choose.

A lot of racing fans need to get a dose of reality on the 60 fps whine-fest. Not every game is Project Cars and not everyone is going to buy the $800+ PC needed to run Project Cars at high resolution, high graphical detail, and a rock solid 60 fps. A middle ground needs to exist.

 

[MrPregnantBear]

I wonder Sony mandates for the developers to put visuals above gameplay just so that every title looks next gen in screenshots. Because not having 60fps in a racer seems like a major omission.

 

[RulkezX]

"We don't want you to use microtransactions... so we put microtransactions in the game".

Yup, totally makes sense.

If someone with more £ than me wants to unlock everything from the get go , who the fuck cares ?

If they don't impact on progression then there is zero issue with them.

I wonder Sony mandates for the developers to put visuals above gameplay just so that every title looks next gen in screenshots. Because not having 60fps in a racer seems like a major omission.

Forza Horizon was loved on GAF and people are hyped for the rumoured sequel, this amazes me given

Spoiler

bandwagon jumpers

everyone finds 30fps racers unplayable.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

No matter what, not having 60fps in a racing game is a crime against humanity

Some of the most fun I've had was with 30fps racers. The hyperbole with this is incredible.

 

[Hellshy.]

30 fps racer is never the right solution. It just means you want those extra bells and whistles more than a great playing racer.

But reading a lot of post on many forums who can blame them really? Seems a lot forum goers totally shit all over a game if it doesn't look like what they imagined it would look like despite how it plays.

But what if they managed to make a great playing race with all those extra bells and whistles that's locked at 30 fps. I kinda feel bad for those that can't enjoy any game that's 30 fps. I can't stand frame drops and really don't like screen tearing but I have played plenty of games with a stable 30fps where I was having to much fun to even notice it wasn't 60fps or if noticed I didn't really care b/c it was stable and didn't break the immersion.

 

[ScepticMatt]

Full article at the link:

Sorry Rushy, I'm calling bullshit on the microtransaction part. Just because it worked in the past doesn't mean this isn't a money-grab.

IGN PREVIEW-

http://a.pomf.se/mchjwq.webm

 

[BigDug13]

Some of the most fun I've had was with 30fps racers. The hyperbole with this is incredible.

I bet most of the people who complain could be brought into a room with a 30fps racer with good motion blur and get told its a 60fps game and I bet most would believe it.

I have trouble perceiving the response time difference of .016 seconds.

I bet many people who play 60fps games have more latency introduced by their TV than .016 seconds to the point where a 30fps gamer on a different TV may have superior control response than the 60fps guy.

 

[SolsticeZero]

Some of the most fun I've had was with 30fps racers. The hyperbole with this is incredible.

Me too. I love a good game, framerate aside. Granted, if it drops into the teens or single digits, yeah, it sucks ass. But a solid 30 doesn't bother me at all.

 

[boredandlazy]

IGN PREVIEW-

Why Am I not surprised? Ryan fucking Mcafferey.

 

[pixlexic]

I bet most of the people who complain could be brought into a room with a 30fps racer with good motion blur and get told its a 60fps game and I bet most would believe it.

I have trouble perceiving the response time difference of .016 seconds.

NFS rivals was completely unplayable for me at 30 fps. The ability to make it 60fps through parameters made a world of difference.

 

[Damian.]

30 is never the right decision for a racing game. Optimize for 1080p60 or GTFO.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Me too. I love a good game, framerate aside. Granted, if it drops into the teens or single digits, yeah, it sucks ass. But a solid 30 doesn't bother me at all.

1 example so I don't derail the thread, NFS HP on PS1. Great fun and often sub 30fps.

NFS rivals was completely unplayable for me at 30 fps. The ability to make it 60fps through parameters made a world of difference.

We must have played different games. I own it on PS4 and there is no detriment to the gameplay caused by the frame rate.

 

[boredandlazy]

30 is never the right decision for a racing game. Optimize for 1080p60 or GTFO.

Well since it's 30 and that's final, maybe DC shouldn't be the one to GTFO?

 

[Flo_Evans]

From what I have seen the game looks just fine and playable at 30FPS. Why are people saying all racing games need to be 60FPS?

This is more of a GT racer and not some arcade racer. GT is 30FPS is it not? (Never played the PS3 versions)

Amazing the amount wrong in 1 post.

This is not a sim its an arcade racer like PGR.

Gran turismo has always been 60fps with exception of GT1 which had a 60fps mode with no other cars on the track after you beat the game ON THE PS1.

 

[yellow submarine]

Why don't they do it like Forza 3 with a Free to play mode that's separate from the career mode?

 

[epmode]

Wow, I fully expected them to say "Yeah, we balanced our game to make progression annoying enough that you'll want to pay to unlock stuff earlier."

 

[Hendrick's]

How loud do we need to cry to get them to reconsider 60fps?

I'm serious.

 

[The Llama]

How loud do we need to cry to get them to reconsider 60fps?

I'm serious.

Infinitely, because its not gonna happen.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I bet most of the people who complain could be brought into a room with a 30fps racer with good motion blur and get told its a 60fps game and I bet most would believe it.

Maybe, but many of us have had the opportunity to experience both back-to-back to realize what we greatly prefer. I mean, yes, PGR 3+4 and Forza Horizon and a few others have nice blur that does tend to 'blur' the lines at times, but actually sitting down and controlling a 60fps racing game directly before or after really highlights the comparative judder and lacking sense of immediate control, no matter how nice the blur is. On a fixed panel display (LCD, plasma), even 60fps 720p upscaled is going to appear sharper and smoother than 30fps 1080p. Native refresh for speedy games is better than native resolution at half that, even allowing for horizons that may not change altogether quickly from frame to frame, any turns in the road at high speed or motion that is close to your view still benefits from the smoother framerate giving you double the visual data to be informed by and then react to.

 

[SolsticeZero]

How loud do we need to cry to get them to reconsider 60fps?

I'm serious.

You can cry until the sun goes supernova and all life in our solar system is extinguished in a ball of super heated gasses. The game is almost done. It's not going to change.

 

[Guymelef]

How loud do we need to cry to get them to reconsider 60fps?

I'm serious.

Cry all that you want, i would cry if they kill the lighting for the 60 fps...

 

[rjc571]

Because muddy visuals when 720p gets upscaled to 1080p has no impact on gameplay, right?

Framerate is a no win situation for Evolution. This is at it's core a launch title engine for new hardware. People expect it to 1. run at full HD native (1080p), 2. look like a significant generational leap in visuals and 3. run at a full 60 fps locked, all the time, every second of every race... You can't have all three for what is basically launch code at it's core, or even year one code.

Funny how Ridge Racer 7 managed to run at 1080p and 60 fps at the launch of the PS3, while still looking significantly better than any PS2-gen racing game..

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Amazing the amount wrong in 1 post.

This is not a sim its an arcade racer like PGR.

Gran turismo has always been 60fps with exception of GT1 which had a 60fps mode with no other cars on the track after you beat the game ON THE PS1.

I dunno, maybe I should have explained myself better. To me an arcade racer is something like Need for Speed (Not realistic). This seems to me more like a GT type of game where the idea is to simulate real world racing. And it's been a long time since I've played a GT game hence why I asked.

The game look amazing graphically and from the videos looks just fine being 30FPS. I just really fail to see what the big deal is over this.

 

[GHG]

How loud do we need to cry to get them to reconsider 60fps?

I'm serious.

You'll be part of a small group, so good luck with that. Cry all you want, it's not changing and the rest of us will enjoy it.

I didn't see you campaigning for 60fps in any previous NFS, PGR, motorstorm or any other arcade titles.

Why is this game different all of a sudden?

 

[Karl Hawk]

How loud do we need to cry to get them to reconsider 60fps?

I'm serious.

Driveclub is 30fps and it's gonna stay 30fps and no amount of crying will change that.

 

[rjc571]

I dunno, maybe I should have explained myself better. To me an arcade racer is something like Need for Speed (Not realistic). This seems to me more like a GT type of game where the idea is to simulate real world racing. And it's been a long time since I've played a GT game hence why I asked.

The game look amazing graphically and from the videos looks just fine being 30FPS. I just really fail to see what the big deal is over this.

Question: Do you consider this game's framerate to be "just fine"?

 

[SolsticeZero]

You'll be part of a small group, so good luck with that. Cry all you want, it's not changing and the rest of us will enjoy it.

I didn't see you campaigning for 60fps in any previous NFS, PGR, motorstorm or any other arcade titles.

Why is this game different all of a sudden?

It's the beginning of a new generation, and people think that the first games need to be better in every way shape and form from the last generation ones, even though the developers are still learning hardware.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Why is this game different all of a sudden?

Most powerful console by specs and by marketing with a highly anticipated game that is delayed a year. Why is their flagship racer more dedicated to pure visual candy than upping the ante on its sense of control and speed? Sony's other flagship racer never set its sights so low. Chopping framerate in half is a compromise, but one that tends to be done later when the hardware is aging and trying to keep up with the latest graphics techniques that naturally work better on newer, more powerful hardware. This isn't a campaign against this game, it's a desire to see less compromise upfront on the leading console platform that plants its flag on sheer power, relative to its competition. So, yes, keep saying it's not going to change, but the desire within the gaming community looking forward to this can still be represented even if some just don't care for it.

 

[vpance]

I bet most of the people who complain could be brought into a room with a 30fps racer with good motion blur and get told its a 60fps game and I bet most would believe it.

I have trouble perceiving the response time difference of .016 seconds.

I bet many people who play 60fps games have more latency introduced by their TV than .016 seconds to the point where a 30fps gamer on a different TV may have superior control response than the 60fps guy.

There's more.

TV latency = 16 to 100+ ms
Controller latency = 10ms?
Actual reaction time = ~190ms, add more for driving with a wheel setup
Game engine latency = 50 to 100+ ms

Maintaining a locked framerate is more important because the brain can adapt to all this lag as long as it's consistent.

 

[SolsticeZero]

There's more.

TV latency = 16 to 100+ ms
Controller latency = 10ms?
Actual reaction time = ~190ms, add more for driving with a wheel setup
Game engine latency = 50 to 100+ ms

Maintaining a locked framerate is more important because the brain can adapt to all this lag as long as it's consistent.

Well said.

 

[jpbonadio]

No one complains when Need for Speed puts in paid dlc for a shortcut to all the cars.

If It's all about options, unobtrusive, Doesn't require grinding for hours on end and wont give you an advantage online then i don't see the problem.

Some people are bound to cry like he has molested them though just because they think they know how to make a video game better then people who have been doing this a long time. Same goes with the 60fps argument.

Don't like it don't buy it. Its that simple.

Exactly.

The "60 FPS or death" crowd act like if everybody should agree with them.

I disagree, so what?

I will always prefer better graphics and IQ that a 30FPS game can offer, over 60FPS. As long as the framerate is stable, graphics and IQ are what really matters for me. And I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Ignoring the "arcade" vs "simulation" part (I prefer simulation) I will always prefer a game with great graphics and IQ, like Forza Horizon, over a game with shitty graphics and terrible IQ like Forza 4.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Question: Do you consider this game's framerate to be "just fine"?

Comparing driveclub to wave race on the N64? I don't get where you are coming from with this comparison. I was a teenager when I played that game.

 

[GoaThief]

It's the beginning of a new generation, and people think that the first games need to be better in every way shape and form from the last generation ones, even though the developers are still learning hardware.

Unrealistic expectations?

Happy with 30fps for this game, looks gorgeous from the previews. Think they made the right choice. Project Cars bringing the hardcore sim 60fps style so everyone should be covered in some shape or form.

 

[Xav]

Because muddy visuals when 720p gets upscaled to 1080p has no impact on gameplay, right?

Framerate is a no win situation for Evolution. This is at it's core a launch title engine for new hardware. People expect it to 1. run at full HD native (1080p), 2. look like a significant generational leap in visuals and 3. run at a full 60 fps locked, all the time, every second of every race.

You can't have all three for what is basically launch code at it's core, or even year one code. We could have 1080p/60fps and get a game like Forza 5 that is basically Forza 4 HD, or we can have a real next generation racer that has to sacrifice something. Both resolution and frame rate impact game play, but resolution also impacts visuals so if you're picking one or the other the smart choice is resolution.

That decision is only compounded further by just the level of technical cuts they'd have to make to get 60 fps locked, and if it isn't locked all those game play advantages disappear as dropping frames is far more intrusive to good controls than just a lower refresh rate. Even for racers any sane person should want 30 fps locked over 45-60 fps variable.

So either they could have released this game with zero intention of it being a success as it would look like a prettied up last generation game, or they could rely on it's style being a legitimate homage to PGR which played just fine at 30 fps with PGR4, and having killer visuals that help to move next generation software and hardware. I think it's pretty obvious what anyone who wants to keep making video games for a living will choose.

A lot of racing fans need to get a dose of reality on the 60 fps whine-fest. Not every game is Project Cars and not everyone is going to buy the $800+ PC needed to run Project Cars at high resolution, high graphical detail, and a rock solid 60 fps. A middle ground needs to exist.

I don't understand why 60FPS seems to be such an impossible feat. It's 2014, we're on PlayStation 4 and we still can't get 60FPS in a racing game?

Burnout Paradise was an open world racer that ran 60FPS on Xbox 360/PS3 and it came out in early 2008. Is it so much to ask that a PS4 game MAINTAINS that framerate standard?

If you're a fighter, racer or platformer title and you're not at 60FPS, you're got your priorities all wrong in my opinion.

 

[Yaphett Kotto]

This game took a turn for the worse ever since they started spilling info for it recently.

Just for once, I'd like a developer to recognise that saying that dropping 60fps to 30fps is okay 'because it's pretty' is... not actually speaking in terms that relate to me.

QFT.

 

[Bundy]

Yep. "We decided to make the game play demonstrably worse because we wanted it to look marginally better in ways that you'll never notice while playing a fast moving game" is a good way to convince me that you don't want me to ever actually play your game, but maybe I should look up some screenshots once in a while.

Yeah, 30fps in a non-sim racer is unplayable!
YOU HEAR ME? UN-PLAY-ABLE!

....

 

[BeforeU]

IGN PREVIEW-

 

[SolsticeZero]

Unrealistic expectations?

Happy with 30fps for this game, looks gorgeous from the previews. Think they made the right choice. Project Cars bringing the hardcore sim 60fps style so everyone should be covered in some shape or form.

Exactly! People are acting like this is the only racer they'll ever get. GT will be 60, Project Cars will be 60. Driveclub is fine at 30 (given that it remains locked at 30)