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[McHuj]

Worried, when they have more AAA teams then Microsoft or Nintendo?

People are funny here.
Dat hyperbole.

They may have more teams, but of the three companies they are in the worst financial shape so my guess is that they are trying to be very selective on what they work on and what they fund. At this point in time, they don't have the money for projects that are in poor shape or would likely to be unsuccessful financially.

 

[entremet]

I admire your intelligence my good man, but I have to disagree.

Guerilla, out of all the European studios, have managed to ship technical showpieces that might not sell 5 million plus, but always end up racking more than 2 million sales. Killzone Shadow Fall currently is on track to sell 4 million all in all.

The issue with SCEE is a more of a holistic problem with how things are run. There is a strong lack of proper creative directors, narrative writers, and studio culture that is anywhere close to what Naughty Dog, SSM, and Sucker Punch have cultivated over at SCEA.

The heads on top need to roll and they need to closely examine how studios like Naughty Dog are run to try and figure out where their own weaknesses are.

It's not so much the amount sold, but are they recouping their investments. These aren't cheap games. 2 million may be nice, but it that what Sony projected? SF may hit its number since the launch lineup is still sparse, but I not sure the previous 2 PS3 games hit their targets.

 

[sörine]

It's called restructuring and Sony was way over due.

Nintendo just went through a major internal restructuring and had no lay offs. They did it a decade ago as well. Iwata even spoke to that and how damaging layoffs can be to studio culture and morale.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

As Bundy posted earlier in this thread, similar cancelled projects and people leaving in droves happened last generation too.

It just lacked NeoGAF hysteria to make you shit your pants over it.

Where Sony selling buildings to remain profitable then as well? Sony are not in good shape and it's filtering through to WWS.

 

[Hoje0308]

"The development of DriveClub "will not be affected" by today's layoffs at Evolution Studios, SCEE has confirmed to VideoGamer.com."

Given the constant delays and now "going back to the drawing board", I don't know if this is true.

They went "back to the drawing board" during the first - and only - delay.

 

[entremet]

Nintendo just went through a major internal restructuring and had no lay offs. They did it a decade ago as well. Iwata even spoke to that and how damaging layoffs can be to studio culture and morale.

Nintendo has less pressure since they're not a division helping prop us a bleeding giant, which is Sony as a whole. That puts more pressure on the Playstation division to remain profitable.

 

[VLiberty]

FFA,A4O and Resistance 2. Are all bad games the best Insomniac has made in the PS3 gen is ACIT, with Resistance 3 singleplayer being close second and its multiplayer being garbage tier.

FFA & A4O get shat just for being spin offs. Granted, they're anything hot, but still aren't bad games at all.

Same goes for Resistance 2. Heck, if you consider that a bad game I can't even imagine what do you think about the first Killzone.

 

[darkwing]

wow, so what first party game is coming this year with a definite date

 

[SniperHunter]

There was a guy on gaf long time ago who used to rant against Herman Hulst the CEO of Guerrilla Games. He said stuff like, Herman was absorbing all the power and he was directly responsible for the earlier closures at Sony UK. I am starting to believe him.

I can't believe GG had zero layoffs. Killzone Shadow Fall is a very pedestrian shooter

 

[Ricky_R]

Nintendo just went through a major internal restructuring and had no lay offs. They did it a decade ago as well. Iwata even spoke to that and how damaging layoffs can be to studio culture and morale.

Nintendo was/is in a better financial position to do so. Sony needed to trim a lot of fat and layoffs were necessary.

 

[Texhex]

They may have more teams, but of the three companies they are in the worst financial shape so my guess is that they are trying to be very selective on what they work on and what they fund. At this point in time, they don't have the money for projects that are in poor shape or would likely to be unsuccessful financially.

Some of their teams had some major output issues so they had to restructure them. What is here not to understand? This has nothing to do with ~oh noes, the money~. New gen, perfect time for some reboots. Japan Studio had it at the end of last gen already.

 

[Dombrowski]

Amazing.

 

[get2sammyb]

Where Sony selling buildings to remain profitable then as well? Sony are not in good shape and it's filtering through to WWS.

It's your assumption that the two are connected. These people may still have got laid off if the company was in stellar financial shape. It sucks for the people involved, but it's impossible to know from the outside whether Sony's wider financial shape is filtering through to WWS. It's fine to speculate, but let's not start dressing this as fact.

 

[Hoje0308]

Where Sony selling buildings to remain profitable then as well? Sony are not in good shape and it's filtering through to WWS.

They were actually losing billions while making a console sold at a huge loss that wasn't generating nearly the kind of excitement among consumers and devs as the PS4. The gaming division is Sony's best hope of profitability at this point and layoffs are meant to bolster that position. Feel free to cling to old tropes though, if that's your thing.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

Where Sony selling buildings to remain profitable then as well? Sony are not in good shape and it's filtering through to WWS.

If it's filtering through to WWS, how is Sony's R&D department still allowed to be working on stuff like VR or PS Now. Why are all the studios hit by layoffs?

 

[sörine]

Nintendo has less pressure since they're not a division helping prop us a bleeding giant, which is Sony as a whole. That puts more pressure on the Playstation division to remain profitable.

I wouldn't necessarily say that, Iwata's comments on layoffs were a direct response to investor pressure for cuts. Everyone is accountable to someone but Nintendo management draws the line at their development staff.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Cambridge is pretty small as it is, I doubt they are long for this world

I don't see Evolution lasting this generation either

Their Cambridge studios have always been at the top of their game both technically, artistic, and story-telling wise. Games like Primal on PS2 and Killzone: Mercenary on PS Vita are easy to find and strong examples of their skills and quality. I hope they can keep kicking ass!

 

[noobasuar]

Nintendo just went through a major internal restructuring and had no lay offs. They did it a decade ago as well. Iwata even spoke to that and how damaging layoffs can be to studio culture and morale.

Yup. He also took a large paycut to guarntee that no one got laid off. Maybe more higher ups at Sony should be taking pay cuts.

 

[sublimit]

Best of luck to everyone that has been affected.Hopefully they'll find new jobs soon.

Unfortunately things like these are a common thing in this industry and everyone should know this when they decide to work for game companies.

 

[Sacrimoni]

I seem to be the only one who has noticed this, but the ps4 seems to be undergoing something of a vitafication

That is to say, a focus on (mostly multiplatform) indie games over AAA exclusives

The retail exclusives it does have so far aren't the best, and the future is looking equally as sparse

Is this a consequence of the studio closures this gen and last gen? Is it deliberate?

 

[Hoje0308]

There was a guy on gaf long time ago who used to rant against Herman Hulst the CEO of Guerrilla Games. He said stuff like, Herman was absorbing all the power and he was directly responsible for the earlier closures at Sony UK. I am starting to believe him.

I can't believe GG had zero layoffs. Killzone Shadow Fall is a very pedestrian shooter

1) SP, I agree. MP, no way in hell. Opinions...

2) You can't believe they didn't begin layoffs at the studio that produced one of the top selling games of this new generation?

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

wow, so what first party game is coming this year with a definite date

MLB : The Show

 

[Begaria]

Despite layoffs meaning people has lost their jobs (which sucks), pardon me for taking the silver lining: I'm hoping this means more consistent staffing on projects, better budgets on games going forward, and getting games out in a timely manner. Not every studio needs hundreds of employees and not every game needs tens of millions of dollars to get out the door. If Sony can somehow cull their development studios into something more manageable by doing this and it results in better products delivered in a more timely manner, then that's just the way it should be.

 

[alr1ght]

Yup. He also took a large paycut to guarntee that no one got laid off. Maybe more higher ups at Sony should be taking pay cuts.

CEO paycuts are largely symbolic.

 

[Aquamarine]

CEO paycuts are largely symbolic.

Yeah...Iwata could do nothing and still keep everyone.

 

[Dragon]

Yup. He also took a large paycut to guarntee that no one got laid off. Maybe more higher ups at Sony should be taking pay cuts.

Yeah he's great. Too bad he released a console that's going to be Nintendos worst ever in terms of sales.

 

[Omakone]

I might be reading to much into the layoffs at the different studios, but this seems to point to a bad quarter for Sony as a whole.

The PS4 has exceeded even Sony's wildest sales expectations.

With the fiscal quarter ending on March 31, it certainly appears that Sony Worldwide Studios is trying everything to cut expenses as a way of self preservation.

As a huge Playstation fan, it is disconcening to see all of the layoffs inside the first party studios. However, it is important to remember that Sony is a publicly traded company and the first party studios do not have much to show in the way of success in the last couple of quarters. I am sure that Sony is not happy with the performance of GT6 (however, releasing the game after the PS4 should have tempered expectations). Fortunately, Infamous SS appears to be selling really well if the numbers coming from the U.K are any indication.

If history is any indication Sony will release the year end report in early May (For fiscal year ending March 31). It will be interesting to see the results for the Playstation and Sony Worldwide Studios.

 

[mangochutney]

Where Sony selling buildings to remain profitable then as well? Sony are not in good shape and it's filtering through to WWS.

No, but they were under different leadership then. It is something they could have done, but seemed to just think 'hey well we'll soldier on anyway, it'll get better, right?' Kaz came and sorted that shit right out.

But in terms of the day-to-day operating of the WWS, listen to the wise man Bundy. This thing went on in the past, and will continue to happen in the future.

For a business, restructuring is about doing more with less. Not doing less, shittier things with less.

Efficiency, not deficiency.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Evolution will closed after Driveclub for sure. They really dropped the ball with this game and Sony take no prisoners.

 

[Freeman]

It's unreasonable because you are taking something that normally happens in this industry and extrapolating to make it seem as if Sony has no games and support. It's insanity.

I never said any of that. I just questioned if they would be able to maintain the same level of support of the last couple of years.

 

[KORNdoggy]

There was a guy on gaf long time ago who used to rant against Herman Hulst the CEO of Guerrilla Games. He said stuff like, Herman was absorbing all the power and he was directly responsible for the earlier closures at Sony UK. I am starting to believe him.

I can't believe GG had zero layoffs. Killzone Shadow Fall is a very pedestrian shooter

it also sold a lot more then mercenary. why punish GG for creating a game that sold well?

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

I seem to be the only one who has noticed this, but the ps4 seems to be undergoing something of a vitafication

That is to say, a focus on (mostly multiplatform) indie games over AAA exclusives

The retail exclusives it does have so far aren't the best, and the future is looking equally as sparse

Is this a consequence of the studio closures this gen and last gen? Is it deliberate?

In that case, every system has gone vitafication then because every platform has more indie games than AAA exclusives.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I wouldn't necessarily say that, Iwata's comments on layoffs were a direct response to investor pressure for cuts. Everyone is accountable to someone but Nintendo management draws the line at their development staff.

Nintendo is highly under staff to begin with they only have about 5100 people .

 

[sörine]

CEO paycuts are largely symbolic.

It was Iwata and the entire board that took paycuts. They also said it was done to help prevent cuts in other areas like staffing.

 

[SniperHunter]

it also sold a lot more then mercenary. why punish GG for creating a game that sold well?

because it isn't any good. If any studio needs restructuring its gotta be GG. Killzone Mercs, I hear was a competent shooter for a dead platform.

 

[crazygambit]

They went "back to the drawing board" during the first - and only - delay.

I don't know about that. The early 2014 window is closing pretty fast. I think it's safe to say it's been delayed again.

 

[spwolf]

I might be reading to much into the layoffs at the different studios, but this seems to point to a bad quarter for Sony as a whole.

The PS4 has exceeded even Sony's wildest sales expectations.

With the fiscal quarter ending on March 31, it certainly appears that Sony Worldwide Studios is trying everything to cut expenses as a way of self preservation.

As a huge Playstation fan, it is disconcening to see all of the layoffs inside the first party studios. However, it is important to remember that Sony is a publicly traded company and the first party studios do not have much to show in the way of success in the last couple of quarters. I am sure that Sony is not happy with the performance of GT6 (however, releasing the game after the PS4 should have tempered expectations). Fortunately, Infamous SS appears to be selling really well if the numbers coming from the U.K are any indication.

If history is any indication Sony will release the year end report in early May (For fiscal year ending March 31). It will be interesting to see the results for the Playstation and Sony Worldwide Studios.

It does not work that way... when you cut people, you are doing it for future performance and not this quarter - for this quarter, it is a financial loss to them.

Sony has 4x more employees than Apple, they are huge... they need to trim the fat and focus on successful projects.

 

[beast786]

Yup. He also took a large paycut to guarntee that no one got laid off. Maybe more higher ups at Sony should be taking pay cuts.

He took a pay it to save his job.

It's unbelievable to see him loose such a market share and still be with a job. How can he fire anyone for being incompetent when he is the first person responsible.

 

[Cthulhu_Steev]

Dire straits? Nintendo has more money in their war chest from last generation than the other guys.

Let's not pretend that one flopped console means Nintendo is doomed.

They've only had one successful console since the SNES.

 

[Famassu]

Because it adds to the other ones? It might not be anything, it might even be better for Sony, but it might also affect their output of games the main reason I'm interested on the PS4. E3 is wright around the corner, lets see what gets announced there.


Ok. Maybe its the language barrier, but I can't understand what is so unreasonable in what I said.

I already pointed it out. Sony said they had "over 30 games" in production for PS4 all-in-all. These lay-offs @ SSM and now SCEE seem to have been about the cancellation of 3-4 of those. So even in the worst case scenario, they still have about 27-30 games in production. That's still plenty of games in development. It's just a bit silly to be so worried about the whole future of Sony 1st party because of the cancellation of 3-4 games. Similar scope cancellation & lay-off sprees have happened at Sony's studios before and yet they bounce back and produce quality like Last of Us with old teams and buy new studios who make something like inFamous: Second Son to replace the Zippers & others that have got shut down.

 

[IncandescentPrecept]

because it isn't any good. If any studio needs restructuring its gotta be GG. Killzone Mercs, I hear was a competent shooter for a dead platform.

I disagree so who should Sony believe? People voted with their wallets.

 

[sörine]

Nintendo is highly under staff to begin with they only have about 5100 people .

They're a lean company but their developer pool is comparable to SCEWWS in terms of headcount. The difference being Nintendo is more centralized while Sony is more spread out. That's why counting by "team" as some were doing earlier is deceptive, you have to consider EAD is about as large as SSM, Naughty Dog and Insomniac combined.

 

[KORNdoggy]

because it isn't any good. If any studio needs restructuring its gotta be GG. Killzone Mercs, I hear was a competent shooter for a dead platform.

what has quality got to do with sales. if you're selling like gangbusters, it's irrelivent, publisher profits, all it well. see COD.

mercenary sold like shit, so why bother funding more from them. is it short sighted? potentially. cambridges next game might be a system seller and GG's might only sell 20,000. but the point is, there is no reason to punish a studio if they've just made you profit. motorstorm apocolypse was awesome. sold at an unfortunate time and amounted to evolution being downgraded to a digital RC game...you don't throw money at someone who just lost you loads.

 

[Tamanator]

They've only had one successful console since the SNES.

Wildly successful handhelds don't count anymore?

 

[noobasuar]

They've only had one successful console since the SNES.

Umm they've been consistently profitable with every home and portable console they've made since the SNES other than the Wii U.

No one else in the industry can say the same so you should probably rethink what "successful" means

 

[johnny956]

I think Sony is going to be going with smaller teams (compared to past). Considering we just had Infamous released by a 100 person team and Ready at Dawn seems to be a similar size I think that's what we can expect now from Sony's team.

 

[amar212]

I'm still here. I can't give any updates on DRIVECLUB other than:

Great to hear Rushy, wishing the best for all of you still working on the game and to all colleagues that will go.

 

[sörine]

I think Sony is going to be going with smaller teams (compared to past). Considering we just had Infamous released by a 100 person team and Ready at Dawn seems to be a similar size I think that's what we can expect now from Sony's team.

Insomniac has over 200 staff, unless only half of them worked on Second Son?

 

[KORNdoggy]

Insomniac has over 200 staff, unless only half of them worked on Second Son?

wrong developer brah

 

[noobasuar]

Insomniac has over 200 staff, unless only half of them worked on Second Son?

Insomniac is an independent studio.