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[molasar]

That does not make AvsP "tactical shooter" at all. And, again, Zero Tolerance has different characters with different habilities as well.

But it is and everyone who played it and finished it used these tactics. If you want to kill them in narrow corridors then good luck to you. ZT has nothing interesting going on in comparison.

Rayman SNES.

I do not know what you want to show me here. I play games since early 80s and I am familiar with emu scene and prototypes.

Rayman Jaguar.

Yes, SNES's DKC games are still better.

Power Drive Rally Jaguar.

Yes, Jag's PD is a sequel to 16 bit PD but still felt like a remaster. So?

 

[molasar]

In which way, shape or form does this qualify as an open-world game?

"An open world is a level or game designed as nonlinear, open areas with many ways to reach an objective."
"Whereas open world refers to the lack of limits for the player's exploration of the game's world"

Open world - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

"An open world is a level or game designed as nonlinear, open areas with many ways to reach an objective."
"Whereas open world refers to the lack of limits for the player's exploration of the game's world"

Open world - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Its maze-like levels connected to each other. The levels themselves are a bit more open than Doom levels, but also very narrow and claustrophobic. If this counts as an open-world game, then freaking Blake Stone would be an open-world game too.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

that's cool!

 

[molasar]

Its maze-like levels connected to each other. The levels themselves are a bit more open than Doom levels, but also very narrow and claustrophobic. If this counts as an open-world game, then freaking Blake Stone would be an open-world game too.

Lol. You are another one who did not play Jag's AvP. There is no game levels in the game. The space military base has 5 floors (called sub levels) which are interconnected with two elevator shafts and air ducts. A pred ship is docked on the first one (the top sub level) and an alien one on the fifth one (the bottom one). As a Marine you start on 3rd one in a Brig section. It is up to you if you want to acquire all weapons or just make a run to Alien ship to get a 10 level access card which allows an activation of self destruction.

What else do you expect? Space flights between planets and other bases?

And no, Blake Stone is not an open world game.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

The space military base has 5 floors (called sub levels) which are interconnected with two elevator shafts and air ducts.

That's exactly what I said. "Its maze-like levels connected to each other."

Look, in Blake Stone, the levels were connected with each other through an elevator. You have the decision to choose the order, so I could start on floor 1, go to floor 6, then go to floor 3, I could go back and forth, etc... It's definitely more open then Doom or Wolfenstein with their level-by-level approach, and AvsP took this even further, but I wouldn't call it an open world just because they connected their mazes. You may have a different interpretation of what an open-world game is supposed to be, but I've never heard anyone calling AvsP an open-world game ever. Especially by today's standards, it kinda sounds ludicrous but even back then it's kinda exaggerated when compared to titles like Elder Scrolls Arena.

So yeah, when AvsP is an open-world game, so is Blake Stone.

 

[molasar]

That's exactly what I said. "Its maze-like levels connected to each other."

Look, in Blake Stone, the levels were connected with each other through an elevator. You have the decision to choose the order, so I could start on floor 1, go to floor 6, then go to floor 3, I could go back and forth, etc... It's definitely more open then Doom or Wolfenstein with their level-by-level approach, and AvsP took this even further, but I wouldn't call it an open world just because they connected their mazes. You may have a different interpretation of what an open-world game is supposed to be, but I've never heard anyone calling AvsP an open-world game ever. Especially by today's standards, it kinda sounds ludicrous but even back then it's kinda exaggerated when compared to titles like Elder Scrolls Arena.

So yeah, when AvsP is an open-world game, so is Blake Stone.

It seems that you are confused by open world games with sand box elements.
Nope. They have not connected any mazes. One floor of the military base has a so called training maze for marines. On each floor you can find computer terminals which give you access to blue prints of sub level (you remember Aliens when they studied them) and logs with clues. For example in a brig, there is a terminal which shows you where is canteen, kitchen, elevator shafts. There are still other sections on this floor. It is not like you are going there level by level to find all cards. Here it works the way that if you find security card with an access rank 5 then you do need any lower one. Also no one forces you to find a motion tracker or to kill the Queen. Also some sections on floors are locked with different access level. They are designed like a functional base, not some random mazes like in BS.

So yeah, nothing like BS.

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

It seems that you are confused by open world games with sand box elements.
Nope. They have not connected any mazes. One floor of the military base has a so called training maze for marines. On each floor you can find computer terminals which give you access to blue prints of sub level (you remember Aliens when they studied them) and logs with clues. For example in a brig, there is a terminal which shows you where is canteen, kitchen, elevator shafts. There are still other sections on this floor. It is not like you are going there level by level to find all cards. Here it works the way that if you find security card with an access rank 5 then you do need any lower one. Also no one forces you to find a motion tracker or to kill the Queen. Also some sections on floors are locked with different access level. They designed like a functional base, not some random mazes like in BS.

So yeah, nothing like BS.

That's still not an open world to me. At best it's Metroidvania-esque and an evolution of what Blake Stone did.

 

[molasar]

That's still not an open world to me. At best it's Metroidvania-esque and an evolution of what Blake Stone did.

Again. It is not some maze game which does not even make sense. There is no progression system there.

Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

Again. It is not some maze game which does not even make sense. There is no progression system there.

Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world

The level design is in fact very mazelike (and also super tedious, but that's another topic). What you are describing is a game, where you have to explore a station for key cards in order to gain access to certain sections, while floors are connected with elevators and air shafts.
So it took what Blake Stone started and made everything more interconnected with each other. You have a somewhat complex map, but overall that doesn't sound open world to me at all, no matter how often you gonna link this Wikipedia article. At best it's Metroidvania-esque, and I will stand by that. If you think it is an open-world game go ahead, but you are literally the first one I've ever heard bringing this up.

 

[CamHostage]

Lol. You are another one who did not play Jag's AvP.

I am also another one who did not play Jag's AvP... is it made by Argonaut Games? Is it one of these old versions recently released of Alien Resurrection? Is it based on the movie? Does it have jack-all to do with the point of this thread?

...I'll take those answers offline, please, in the form of a thread somebody could start if they wanted to be informed about Jag AvP and not this incredible Argonaut archive.


(*Sorry to be a narc about it, we just got WAY off track here. If there's nothing more to talk about Alien PS1 prototypes, so be it, but I keep seeing this thread bumped and hoping some new Hidden Palace info is up digging into the prototypes, instead it's a lot of something else.)

 

[SpongebobSquaredance]

I am also another one who did not play Jag's AvP... is it made by Argonaut Games? Is it one of these old versions recently released of Alien Resurrection? Is it based on the movie? Does it have jack-all to do with the point of this thread?

...I'll take those answers offline, please, in the form of a thread somebody could start if they wanted to be informed about Jag AvP and not this incredible Argonaut archive.

You are right. Sorry for derailing this thread a bit.

 

[molasar]

The level design is in fact very mazelike (and also super tedious, but that's another topic). What you are describing is a game, where you have to explore a station for key cards in order to gain access to certain sections, while floors are connected with elevators and air shafts.
So it took what Blake Stone started and made everything more interconnected with each other. You have a somewhat complex map, but overall that doesn't sound open world to me at all, no matter how often you gonna link this Wikipedia article. At best it's Metroidvania-esque, and I will stand by that. If you think it is an open-world game go ahead, but you are literally the first one I've ever heard bringing this up.

Nope. It is not. Mazelike impression is caused by a lack of various textures. And it was not tedious in 1994/95. Terminals clearly give you clues where to look for specific stuff but it is up to you and situation you are in how are you going to approach it. If you load a game from a save state then consumables and enemies are randomly respawned. You only need one card. There are people who only got a pulse rifle (available in multiple locations) and made their run to Alien ship for card #10 and avoided the Queen.

Here is an example of level three layout from a terminal

You start in section 2. Do you want to explain me what is illogical, a maze like about it and where do you see linearity or hub like structure?

Nope again. Nothing like BS. It is clearly an open world. Not some metroidvania labyrinth. And you cannot change it. Not to mention we have not seen another game like this one again.

 

[molasar]

I am also another one who did not play Jag's AvP... is it made by Argonaut Games? Is it one of these old versions recently released of Alien Resurrection? Is it based on the movie? Does it have jack-all to do with the point of this thread?

...I'll take those answers offline, please, in the form of a thread somebody could start if they wanted to be informed about Jag AvP and not this incredible Argonaut archive.


(*Sorry to be a narc about it, we just got WAY off track here. If there's nothing more to talk about Alien PS1 prototypes, so be it, but I keep seeing this thread bumped and hoping some new Hidden Palace info is up digging into the prototypes, instead it's a lot of something else.)

It is not me who is spreading nonsense about Jag's AvP in this thread. Those guys did not even play it back in the day (besides on emulators maybe).

I am as well interested to see prototypes of A:R. Or even their Loaded inspired engine.

 

[Animagic]

How is Alien vs Predator better than Doom? It had better colors/resolution and.. thats pretty much it. Doom is way more smooth and fast and, again, level design is light years ahead.

Zero Tolerance is quite amazing for a Genesis game. Not only the textures on walls/ceilings/floors, it even had external skybox on some levels. It also was the first co-op multiplayer game of all time in console (through custom implementation of the never released Genesis link cable), different characters, destructible environment, camera bobbling, voice clips, blood splats, dripping blood, physical corpses, you can hear enemies footsteps, hand-to-hand combat, bouncing grenades. It has TONS of details, while AvsP on Jaguar has.. almost nothing, it is a pretty simple game.

Oh, and probably the most impressive title screen ever seen in a 16-bit game.

Elevators:

Destructible enviroment:

Enemies attacking from the floor and ceiling. Good luck finding other than walking aliens in AvsP.

Tons of enemies on screen. Framerate certainly takes a hit, but AvsP is slow even with one alien on screen so..

Blood splats on walls.

Non-orthogonal design.

Slopes.

Outdoor levels + skybox.

Windows.

Bouncing grenades + destructible environment.

I don't want to be an Alien vs Predator hater, since it's not a terrible game, but seriously, this game blows AvsP out of the water when it comes to gameplay and complexity.

Wow how have I never heard of this game in all these years?!