A Black Falcon said:
And you see what I mean? You claim to support freedom of speech, but then say that you wouldn't mind if speech was more restricted and some things that you dislike were effectively banned. That is not support for freedom of speech, there needs to be a very high test for things that should be banned ("shouting fire in a crowded theater", things that are illegal and should be like real child porn, what have you).
I mean, sure I wouldn't be too sad either if Kodomo no Jikan went away forever, the entire concept of that show is incredibly horrible. But despite that, I don't agree that it should be banned. You should never ban something just because you dislike it.
Of course there's not much we can do here, but that doesn't mean it's any less important to say how bad it is.
I cut the shit about Australia, anyways, um, I think you're being a bit hysterical about this and not giving me enough credit. There are many laws that I support that I personally disagree with or happen to negatively effect me and yet I support because I think they're beneficial towards society. And for the record I don't think I'm playing a moral superiority card, I think I'm one of the last people on the planet with the right to pull such a card. For instance, I support vigilante justice on a personal moral level yet support the fact it's illegal in my country. Why? because I think the law as a whole is beneficial to society even if there is a person every once in a while who unfortunately is sent to prison for killing someone that did something horrific to them or their family. I am capable of holding different views when an issue effects just me and then society as a whole. That's how societies work. I don't vote or elect a representative who's going to act in a way that just pleases me but hopefully does things that benefit the society as a whole.
So anyways back to this ban. I want to point out the fallacy in saying that
A Black Falcon said:
...because once things start getting banned for purely subjective reasons, eventually they ARE going to ban something you care about.
This is a load of bullshit. It's called out for it's stupidity whenever the slippery slope defense is trotted out here in the states as a reason against legalizing gay marriage and it's bullshit here as well. For reference, gay marriage, another issue that personally does not effect me, is unfortunately illegal here in the States and whenever you have one person exclaiming why it should be legal with valid points and shit the other side dives off into lunacy with "well then where does it end? Then we'll have people marrying cats, dogs or their sisters!" Idiotic right? Well it's just as idiotic when used as a defense against censorship. And Jexhius's example of Spice and Wolf was probably extremely off base, the only show I can think of that I liked that'd have been in danger of being censored or never budgeted is Higurashi, which I only liked to a point anyways before it devolved into stupidity. But Spice and Wolf? They're not teens, they're not in high school, no-one's having sex, no-one dies, just why would it be banned? Why? Nothing I think is actually good would be banned, what else do I think is actually good? Natsume Yuujinchou, Genshiken, Ghost in the Shell, Seirei no Moribito, yeah, I don't think those are in danger of being banned. So honestly, this bill never really would effect me, it really wouldn't. Unless we have some conspiracy theorists who think they want to eliminate all written word and animation, but that's silly. But that's not the point, the point is the fallacy which is the slippery slope. If any kind of censorship is a slippery slope then why isn't banning yelling "fire" in a theater a slippery slope? It was. But the real slippery slope was the concept of governments and laws in the first place, can I look forward to you calling for anarchy to defend our freedom of speech? I didn't think so. Because in a society individuals make compromises for other gains and stability. Which is exactly what I do when I personally despise the stuff they're targeting with this bill and have nothing to lose and only stand to gain and yet still oppose the bill on a legal ground.
A Black Falcon said:
That's not the point, the point is defending the freedom of expression...
Then what the hell do you want from me? I already stated I'm against the law from a legal standpoint, that should be the only standpoint that matters right? Whether I would vote or elect a representative that would vote for or against a measure should be all that matters to another individual and I have already stated I oppose it on that ground. So what if I personally agree with it if I'm going to oppose it in the end? What right does anyone have to expect or demand more from me? Do you understand how ludicrous this position is? It's not enough to oppose the bill but I have to also lament the loss of what I consider crap or celebrate it's production? That's i-n-s-a-n-e. Do you not see the madness here?
I'm the one being mature, not you. Ask yourself what kind of a man would oppose something he supports for his fellow citizen. I think the answer's a good man. And for any ladies reading I'm still single, like to cook, am good with my hands, love animals and don't still live with my parents but they're both nice people if you want to meet them. PM me!
So anyways, jokes aside, you have one man, who dislikes what some groups do or make and states it but defends their right to think and express that, myself, and then we have you, who claims to support freedom of expression and oppose censorship and yet you're trying to not only regulate what I support or do not support legally but also my private personal thoughts as well? Which among us is really for freedom then?
This whole exercise was silly, why do I need to not only legally support all this manga and anime but also for some inexplicable reason like it or wish it be made? Explain it to me.
shidoshi said:
...did you just include gender-bending in with incest and rape? No, really, did you?
As things I dislike not as things that are all equally disturbing to me, my apologies if anyone felt me mentioning them in the same breath meant I was calling them all equally offensive or disturbing. I don't have a problem with men dressing up as women or vice-versa I just don't want to read it, totally different than rape. I didn't mean for that to come off that way.
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Anyways, now that that's done I'll have to get into Samurai Girls mode again.