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Fallout 4 has one of the weirdest openings I've seen in a long time
- Thread starter Fantastapotamus
- Start date
Yeah the intro was pretty bad and rushed. But at least it got out of the way rather quick so we can focus on exploring the wasteland, the actual meat of the game. 12 hours in and the main story is just bleh though (except for the whole synth thing which is kind of interesting).
I'm quite fond of the female MC's voice actually. Consider it a great addition even.
Bethesda could have made the character a blank slate or made the character someone with a clearly defined personality and backstory but instead, they did this bizarre merging of the two which is half-assed and makes no one happy. It's a very odd choice.
Several minutes later would still have to mean the bombs were literally in the air when the salesman calmly strode up to your door. If that's the case, well.... that's some commitment to the job. If I knew that nukes were currently airborne above my head, I don't think my priority would be getting that one last commission.
No one?, you can't speak for everyone.
I am happy enough with it, it's not perfect, but it's the setup for a open world RPG, not Shakespeare.
Thank you for this thread OP. I've played the beginning yesterday and have exactly the same thoughts.
All this was crammed together so poorly that I've literally had zero emotions about everything that happens. Worst thing for me was not the amount of events, but the lack of logic everywhere.
1. Army outpost lets you in the vault without checking your name, but not anyone else. After the explosion Vault-tec van is still by your door, so the outpost wouldn't be able to get the list yet;
2. There were a lot of civilians and soldiers by that gate, but after getting out of the vault you find only 2 corpses, with clothes still not decayed after 200 years;
3. People inside the vault are calm and happy, despite the fact the ALL THEIR RELATIVES ARE DEAD AND WORLD WAS DESTROYED SECONDS AGO. Everyone looks like they're on the line in Disneyland ride.
4. Dog is instantly your most loyal friend.
4. In the nearby town, minutemen immediately greet you as a friend, even though they don't know you and you are dressed as one of the raiders. No questions asked.
5. They give away their power cell and power armor to you. No reason to.
6. Again, why couldn't they use it themselves against raiders?
7. Some visionary old lady is thrown into the scene for the only reason of reminding you that the main quest is finding your baby. This could've been done in normal conversation, but no, the game has to go through some "this is your destiny!" bullshit.
I hope it will get better when intro is over and the real sandbox gameplay will begin.
All this was crammed together so poorly that I've literally had zero emotions about everything that happens. Worst thing for me was not the amount of events, but the lack of logic everywhere.
1. Army outpost lets you in the vault without checking your name, but not anyone else. After the explosion Vault-tec van is still by your door, so the outpost wouldn't be able to get the list yet;
2. There were a lot of civilians and soldiers by that gate, but after getting out of the vault you find only 2 corpses, with clothes still not decayed after 200 years;
3. People inside the vault are calm and happy, despite the fact the ALL THEIR RELATIVES ARE DEAD AND WORLD WAS DESTROYED SECONDS AGO. Everyone looks like they're on the line in Disneyland ride.
4. Dog is instantly your most loyal friend.
4. In the nearby town, minutemen immediately greet you as a friend, even though they don't know you and you are dressed as one of the raiders. No questions asked.
5. They give away their power cell and power armor to you. No reason to.
6. Again, why couldn't they use it themselves against raiders?
7. Some visionary old lady is thrown into the scene for the only reason of reminding you that the main quest is finding your baby. This could've been done in normal conversation, but no, the game has to go through some "this is your destiny!" bullshit.
I hope it will get better when intro is over and the real sandbox gameplay will begin.
Shadow Broker
Banned
I agree and I wish we got to explore the 2077 time line more. It would have been to maybe do one or two side quest in the era.
Like go for a job interview, do so well on it that you feel like you're selling out for the sake of your family and boom bombs drop and youre stuck with that feeli ng of selling out for no reason.
Or you run run to the super duper mart for baby food and eggs and all you come back with is doritos and nukacola and you're spouse is pissed.
Like go for a job interview, do so well on it that you feel like you're selling out for the sake of your family and boom bombs drop and youre stuck with that feeli ng of selling out for no reason.
Or you run run to the super duper mart for baby food and eggs and all you come back with is doritos and nukacola and you're spouse is pissed.
I don't know, sounds stupid but it would have been cool to do something in that time line like get to know your spouse and kid or something.
Shake Appeal
Member
I sometimes feel insane for thinking Bethesda RPGs are not only boring and silly, but just plain bad. Bad in almost every aspect. Obviously people adore them, but I just can't figure out why.
Aurumaethera
Neo Member
While I agree that the game's initial premise has sizeable flaws, I'm surprised by the volume of the negative voices in this conversation. I hope people aren't backlashing crudely against the admittedly overly-fawning reviews.
Asides from the nitpicking in the OP, which I feel is excessive, let's talk about what makes the story strong or weak.
As for your emotional investment, I'd agree, the intensity of your relationship to your son and spouse is poorly demonstrated. It's there, but the power of the voice acting isn't sufficient. There's no real distress, no actual despair. A much more clumsy exit from the pod, with stumbling and weeping, could have helped reinforce this.
The game showering you in weaponry is more debatable however, as to whether it takes away from your enjoyment of the game. While the laser musket, minigun and power armour are all strong, they're limited by their consumables. The power armour's fuel, the minigun's ammo that's largely eaten away by the deathclaw fight, and the laser rifle cells which are tricky to find early out.
I'd argue scarcity of ammo is far more interesting that scarcity of gear. It allows you to aspire to refilling your stockpiles, while relying on cruddy pipe weaponry and raider armour.
The suspension of disbelief factor is again, difficult. For general tat around the place, I have no problem. In two hundred years, every location would have been looted, settled, filled, looted, abandoned, settled and looted again. The general hodgepodge of stuff supports that idea. Some elements DO fail to back up this picture, such as your mister handy fuel still in your original house, and a general lack of new construction, but I don't think it's a total failure.
And as for being located next to the vault, I think that's a fair capitulation to the mainstream aspirations of the game. I'd have loved an hour long intro, I yearn for the days of the Half Life 1 train car, sure, but I think Bethesda trod a fair middle ground in terms of pace, though they did, in my eyes, fluff your exit from the vault, which just isn't traumatic enough for the character.
That's my tuppence, anyway. I've got to write my review this weekend, and there's a lot to think over. Wish I had more hours in the day to replay Fallout 1 and 2.
Asides from the nitpicking in the OP, which I feel is excessive, let's talk about what makes the story strong or weak.
As for your emotional investment, I'd agree, the intensity of your relationship to your son and spouse is poorly demonstrated. It's there, but the power of the voice acting isn't sufficient. There's no real distress, no actual despair. A much more clumsy exit from the pod, with stumbling and weeping, could have helped reinforce this.
The game showering you in weaponry is more debatable however, as to whether it takes away from your enjoyment of the game. While the laser musket, minigun and power armour are all strong, they're limited by their consumables. The power armour's fuel, the minigun's ammo that's largely eaten away by the deathclaw fight, and the laser rifle cells which are tricky to find early out.
I'd argue scarcity of ammo is far more interesting that scarcity of gear. It allows you to aspire to refilling your stockpiles, while relying on cruddy pipe weaponry and raider armour.
The suspension of disbelief factor is again, difficult. For general tat around the place, I have no problem. In two hundred years, every location would have been looted, settled, filled, looted, abandoned, settled and looted again. The general hodgepodge of stuff supports that idea. Some elements DO fail to back up this picture, such as your mister handy fuel still in your original house, and a general lack of new construction, but I don't think it's a total failure.
And as for being located next to the vault, I think that's a fair capitulation to the mainstream aspirations of the game. I'd have loved an hour long intro, I yearn for the days of the Half Life 1 train car, sure, but I think Bethesda trod a fair middle ground in terms of pace, though they did, in my eyes, fluff your exit from the vault, which just isn't traumatic enough for the character.
That's my tuppence, anyway. I've got to write my review this weekend, and there's a lot to think over. Wish I had more hours in the day to replay Fallout 1 and 2.
Yup. Because if you introduce that aspect of personality into a character you should expect the game to justify the transition. Otherwise don't do it.
I'm not sure if I'm just a sap, but seeing my wife get shot and my kid get taken gave me some feels and made we want to get revenge. Certainly nowhere near as moving as TLOU, but I care more about finding that baby than I cared about finding Liam Neeson. The biggest drawback for me was the same as FO3, where I feel compelled to do the main quest because that's what any sane person would do. I can't wait for an Alternate Start mod so I can really get down and dirty with my roleplaying, although the protagonist voice acting is kind of sad.
As for your other complaints about going into Concord and helping the Minutemen, I don't think it's such a big deal that you're getting all these guns because one:your power armor is time limited in that you will not be getting another Fusion Core anytime soon, and even though you get a mini gun, it will quickly run out of ammo. And 5mm ammo is hard to come by for the first few hours. Besides, I just see the minigun as another class of weapon, not necessarily an overpowered one. Also the Laser Rifle you get isn't really a Laser Rifle but a bolt action Laser Musket.
As for your complaints about the "walking 2 minutes to get to another city", that's always been the case in Bethesda games. Distance has always been unrealistic. And Preston making you General made sense to me. You'd just rebuilt a town, saved another, in addition to saving his ass back in Concord. If he wanted to rebuild the Minutemen, who better to do it?
As for your other complaints about going into Concord and helping the Minutemen, I don't think it's such a big deal that you're getting all these guns because one:your power armor is time limited in that you will not be getting another Fusion Core anytime soon, and even though you get a mini gun, it will quickly run out of ammo. And 5mm ammo is hard to come by for the first few hours. Besides, I just see the minigun as another class of weapon, not necessarily an overpowered one. Also the Laser Rifle you get isn't really a Laser Rifle but a bolt action Laser Musket.
As for your complaints about the "walking 2 minutes to get to another city", that's always been the case in Bethesda games. Distance has always been unrealistic. And Preston making you General made sense to me. You'd just rebuilt a town, saved another, in addition to saving his ass back in Concord. If he wanted to rebuild the Minutemen, who better to do it?
Rushersauce
Banned
Quirky in a good way, not a shitty one. People defending Bethesda and giving them a free pass are annoying as all hell.
Tell me what games you like so I can tell you how much they suck.
NV moves a lot faster than this, what are you on about?
Honestly, the entire opening few hours is odd with all the points that OP made. This game is just so weird. Like they didn't bother to change the lock picking and hacking at all. They started production on this in 2009 so thats like 6 years and it looks and runs like garbage. It literally plays exactly like Fallout 3 and New Vegas. There is almost nothing new gameplay wise. The town building is chunky and seems shoehorned it because now-a-days base building is in almost every big game.
Shake Appeal
Member
Why not just skip it entirely and just have the open world with minimal backstory? You could let people, I don't know, tell their own story and not have one foisted on them. Bethesda used to do this pretty well, pre-Oblivion. Hell, even Oblivion doesn't foist that much, and the ludonarrative dissonance of not following the main quest isn't as pronounced.
Eh maybe he didn't know quiet how close. The VT people are all nuts anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if a guy who apologizes for saying 'heck' has some weird level of devotion.
Either way I agree the whole thing turned around rather quickly. I appreciate it from a gameplay sense as it gets me to the part of the game that I enjoy, but I'm sure it's much more jarring for other people.
Dangansona
Member
This close after launch wouldn't this be better suited for the OT instead of making its own thread? Same goes with threads about bugs or whatever else we've been seeing in the last two days.
Gunplay is totally different, wtf are you even talking about?
wanderjahr
Banned
They absolutely dropped the ball on this. Oblivion and Fallout 3 were perfect in their execution insofar as calibrating expectation and delivering a "holy fucking shit" moment right after the tutorial.
I remember leaving the sewers in Oblivion and my jaw fucking dropped. After slinking around in the dark sewers and seeing Cyradiil for the first time, I gotta say is one of the coolest moments in my gaming experience. Fallout 3 is pretty close. Shit goes down in the vault and they pressurize the tension and you finally leave the vault and delivers the haymaker of seeing a post-apocalyptic wasteland while your eyes adjust to seeing the sun for the first time ever.
Fallout 4 gives you a cutesy character creation scene and then almost trips over itself trying to shove you off into the world as quick as possible.
Huge misstep.
I remember leaving the sewers in Oblivion and my jaw fucking dropped. After slinking around in the dark sewers and seeing Cyradiil for the first time, I gotta say is one of the coolest moments in my gaming experience. Fallout 3 is pretty close. Shit goes down in the vault and they pressurize the tension and you finally leave the vault and delivers the haymaker of seeing a post-apocalyptic wasteland while your eyes adjust to seeing the sun for the first time ever.
Fallout 4 gives you a cutesy character creation scene and then almost trips over itself trying to shove you off into the world as quick as possible.
Huge misstep.
SpaceHorror
Member
Eh, beyond it being a bit rushed I was fine with it. I think it would have been more effective if we'd gone through a few more moments of their life like we did in Fallout 3 rather than having all that packed into one day.
QuantumSquid
Member
A lot of video game openings are structured such that if they didn't happen exactly the way they did, then the events of the game simply wouldn't happen. It's contrived but not exactly uncommon.
As far as the opening goes, I enjoyed it. They wasted no time hitting you with the heavier aspects of Fallout (dead wife/husband, stolen son, world destroyed) and then hitting you again with the bombastic and fun parts of the game (fighting a deathclaw using power armor and a minigun). I really appreciate how quickly you get power armor compared to Fallout 3, but it does happen really quickly. I'll take what FO4's opening any day over having to do 8 hours of subway crawling with a 10mm pistol just to get to the Citadel to get "power armor training" though.
As far as the opening goes, I enjoyed it. They wasted no time hitting you with the heavier aspects of Fallout (dead wife/husband, stolen son, world destroyed) and then hitting you again with the bombastic and fun parts of the game (fighting a deathclaw using power armor and a minigun). I really appreciate how quickly you get power armor compared to Fallout 3, but it does happen really quickly. I'll take what FO4's opening any day over having to do 8 hours of subway crawling with a 10mm pistol just to get to the Citadel to get "power armor training" though.
Shake Appeal
Member
Before Bethesda picked up the license, Fallout games had strong, player-directed plots that were thematically coherent. And the setting actually hung together and made a modicum of sense.
This bit is actually explained in data found on various terminals in Vault 111. In yet another of a long series of shady Vault-Tec science experiments, Vault 111's purpose is to monitor the psychological effects of long term cryogenic suspension. Naturally they don't tell you this beforehand because you'd be upset that you're about to fall asleep and then wake up and hear that everything you know has been gone for centuries.
This is of course all hugely undermined by the writing of the player character who doesn't really seem particularly fussed about the whole thing. Deliver a shipment of Brahmin piss through an irradiated hall of mirrors for 50 bottle caps? Sure whatever, I don't know the whereabouts of my son who is the sole remaining link I have to a dead world that now only exists inside my head, or what a Brahmin is, or why we use a hugely inconvenient currency like bottle caps, or how much 50 bottle caps is, or why people seem to be okay with drinking piss, but nothing about any of this upsets me in the slightest.
You're right about all that other stuff though.
Thank you. If the game has story and pacing issues it's not with the beginning of the game. Things are explain if you take the time to explore, listen and read, which is normal for a Fallout game. Also as said sometimes you're just lucky. Some people are just going to be that damn close to a vault. I've watched a few streams of people starting the game and it's annoying to see how many just rush through things and then have no clue as to what is going on or what is happening around them.
As for the player characters reaction? Well I assume as former military in the Fallout universe before the nukes fell they likely saw a lot of things given the level of technology. In fact I believe dialogue makes it appear the player had just left the military. They're likely able to hold it together better then most. Also it would be annoying to hear whining over and over again. That or the player character is just numb. Or super focused and isn't allow themselves to be overtaken with grief. There are a number of things that could be at play based on what is presented in the game.
Play enough games and there is always a disconnect with gameplay actions and the primary story and it's urgency, especially in an open world game. Unless it's a completely linear game with you only being able to go from point A to point B. You as a player have a choice here though. You can focus on the main story and ignore everything else in your search or you can approach things in a way that allows you to help others for help in return (like how RPGs have done it for years). After getting
the power armor in Concord once you leave the vault
Immersion is only is possible if one lets oneself be immersed. There are a number of things that are valid complaints about the game. I have a few even though I'm enjoying the game a lot. However it seems like some people just want to nitpick the the elements that make this an actual game. I think some people would be happier if this was instead a visual novel instead of something you actually play and interact with.
Aztechnology
Member
Please tell me there wasn't a key for the cryolator or something down there. Do I need to go back? I'll do it right now Damnit.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Nitpicking is fun
Also I guess I'm the only one who has almost unlimited ammo for some reason? Like my minigun still has 300 shots, and I have well over 100 energy sells. And even more shotgun, 10mm and 0.308mm ammo
That's true. But some manage to hide that better than others.
Yeah I miss those openings. In Oblivion you could just be like "eh, my character doesn't give a fuck about saving the world and is just going to go do his own thing." The same was the case for Skyrim.
But it seems like all the Fallout games have this negative trend of making things personal, which doesn't really vibe with the "do anything" Bethesda vibe.
Like I said earlier, bring on the Alternate Start mods.
Rushersauce
Banned
And some.people don't care about that. And that annoys me as a Fallout fan. The only modern Fallout game that did it right was NV. It also connected the story and world lore of the Fallout universe.
The game pretty much tells you that you'll be back there at some point anyway.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
I loved the intro, the only thing I found weird was just leaving
.
Someone make a
mod, I'll grab that off the Nexus STAT.
Apart from that, amazing stuff - into the Wasteland and with a purpose
your spouse in the vault to rot
Someone make a
funeral
Apart from that, amazing stuff - into the Wasteland and with a purpose
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
It would have been more interesting if they WEREN'T on the list, went through all that trouble to worm their way in somehow, then were subjected to the ensuing events.
Shake Appeal
Member
Bethesda games basically start with God Mode turned on these days. And you can see why that design philosophy has crept in from some of the responses in this thread: "I just want to get to the part where I'm a badass."Nitpicking is fun
Also I guess I'm the only one who has almost unlimited ammo for some reason? Like my minigun still has 300 shots, and I have well over 100 energy sells. And even more shotgun, 10mm and 0.308mm ammo
Hell, just thinking about how long it took to get Power Armor in Fallout 1 and 2 is making me laugh.
Also really did not like the opening. Both 3 and New Vegas handle their openings just fine - this was just all over the place. Getting power armor right from the start and fighting a deathclaw really rubbed me the wrong way, and I sort of don't like how easy it seems to be to get all sorts of zany weapons.
Anyone else notice how the map seems rather small? I get that in an open world it's not fun having large chunks of open space with nothing in it, but mashing everything into a condensed area isn't a great solution either.
I know i'll enjoy the game but I am somewhat baffled at the high reviews.
Anyone else notice how the map seems rather small? I get that in an open world it's not fun having large chunks of open space with nothing in it, but mashing everything into a condensed area isn't a great solution either.
I know i'll enjoy the game but I am somewhat baffled at the high reviews.
BattleMonkey
Member
I far prefer it to FO3's opening which took almost 45 minutes to get through to just start actually playing the game outside the vault.
The power-curve in this game is completely wrong. Even F3, with all its faults, made you feel like you were on a steady discovery of gear and abilities. The pistol was a viable weapon for several hours, while here it's rendered completely useless during the very first mission. Having the player obliterate a Deathclaw within the first hour is terrible design. Why teach the player that the most feared creature in the wasteland is a huge pushover that you kill in what's basically a tutorial mission?
Why not have the Deathclaw stalk you throughout a series of missions, with you finally confronting it with a much needed Power Armor? It's pacing 101.
This game just throws everything at you at once. Hell, you're basically fighting super mutants within an hour. There are too many items, too much crafting. Nothing in the world feels unique, because you can basically just build everything yourself and rename it.
The new perk/character system basically makes you a jack of all trades, which is a huge step down from the almost perfect balance of New Vegas.
My guess is that the focus testing showed a huge drop-off after the player entered the wasteland, and they front-loaded the game with dudebro shit to do to keep folks playing.
Why not have the Deathclaw stalk you throughout a series of missions, with you finally confronting it with a much needed Power Armor? It's pacing 101.
This game just throws everything at you at once. Hell, you're basically fighting super mutants within an hour. There are too many items, too much crafting. Nothing in the world feels unique, because you can basically just build everything yourself and rename it.
The new perk/character system basically makes you a jack of all trades, which is a huge step down from the almost perfect balance of New Vegas.
My guess is that the focus testing showed a huge drop-off after the player entered the wasteland, and they front-loaded the game with dudebro shit to do to keep folks playing.
I thought it was small until I got to Boston. That place is dense as hell.
"If you're playing <insert RPG> for the plot, you're doing it wrong" is a sentence that makes me very, very sad. Role Playing Games are all about plot.
Rushersauce
Banned
Also killing a deathclaw at the beginning of the game LMAO
Manmademan
Member
But tunnel snakes rule tho
I'll make an insipid and crass statement, in that some people would prefer this to be a Fallout game as in 1, 2 or NV.
However, if we were playing a game like those, we wouldn't be having this conversation. A different one, but certainly not this one.
DryvBy
Member
Agreed. I've been playing this series since the original game. The best part of the old games is you could just kill everyone in your path and make a completely different outcome. Even sometimes dying in a certain manner was a real ending, such as dying at the power plant and having the mutants escape their vault. Amazing games.
Part of their appeal is they don't spoon feed you a story like a lot of other RPGs do.
In a way it's a throwback to the 80s RPGs; you were given a barebones story, and thrown out to explore this vast world.
People who want a compelling and consistent story need to look elsewhere. It's just not what Bethesda does.
So you read the logs in the terminals?
If you have a crazy amount of luck, know where you're going and want to ruin the game for yourself, getting a Power Armor in Fallout 2 doesn't take long at all
Shake Appeal
Member
I mean, in Fallout 2 the first time you actually got a pistol was a power spike from kicking or spearing ants and scorpions, and that was an hour or two in.
Yeah, I thought about mentioning this, but it basically requires metagame knowledge and is impossible on a first playthrough.
Fantastapotamus
Wrong about commas, wrong about everything
Yeah, it's just odd isn't it?
Deathclaws and Power Armor were the end game in previous Fallouts, even in 3.
Getting a Power Armor in Fallout 3 was still interesting because you had to do stuff to be able to wear it, you had to find the armor in the world etc.
Now you just....get it in the first mission and then kill a Deathclaw with a minigun.
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