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Famitsu Sales: Week 25, 2023 (Jun 12 - Jun18)

Nautilus

Banned
Now you're simping for Phil. Just when I thought you couldn't be more pathetic.
I'm not simping for anyone, whatever the hell this means. I'm just repeating what he said on record, a man that factually knows more about the videogame industry and making a living inside it than any of us do.

What is pathetic is people trying to shame others instead of actually using arguments in a discussion, just because they don't like what they hear.
 
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drganon

Member
I'm not simping for anyone, whatever the hell this means. I'm just repeating what he said on record, a man that factually knows more about the videogame industry and making a living inside it than any of us do.

What is pathetic is people trying to shame others instead of actually using arguments in a discussion, just because they don't like what they hear.
What arguments? All you do every week in these threads is bitch about Playstation and then cry when you get called out on it.

Yes, you're pathetic.
 
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Nautilus

Banned
What arguments? All you do every week in these threads is bitch about Playstation and then cry when you get called out on it.

Yes, you're pathetic.
And yet your only contribution to this thread has been to derail it and call people pathetic. Actually, you barely contribute anything in any famitsu thread and when you do, its to call people nasty names like saying I'm pathetic for what? For just paraphrasing an actual quote said by someone who 100% knows more about the videogame industry than any of us? In another words, an indisputable fact?

And yet, I'm the one who's phatetic? lol

Anyway, that's enough derailing the thread. If you want to talk with me about sales numbers or any other discussion, I'm more than happy to oblige. But if all you want to do is to throw excrements at other people, then I'm done with you. For this week anyway. I have a feeling that you won't particulary like next week's PS5 software, but that's just a guess.
 

blacktout

Member
Universally good news this week: for Nintendo, for Sony, for Microsoft, for the industry. I can't see why anyone [outside of this thread] would have anything to complain about. Given that things were looking far bleaker earlier this year with the Switch in decline, PS5 stock shortages, the multifaceted Xbox shitshow, etc., we should all be feeling hopeful right now.

That said, regardless of how things play out, next week this thread is going to be a fucking battlefield and I can't wait.
 

Unknown?

Member
Dude, Phil Spencer himself, a guy who knows x10000 more than all of us combined, said that MS competes directly with Nintendo. And if MS competes with Nintendo directly, by your own logic, so does Sony.

Or are you arrogant enough to say you know better than Phil Spencer himself, head of Xbox which is a billion dollar company?
He also said they didn't compete with Sony and was concerned more about Google and Amazon.
 
Who’s that Chris that others have mentioned ??

The other user is still salty about PS and FF16, so who’s the other one ?
 
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Woopah

Member
Who’s that Chris that others have mentioned ??

The other user is still salty about PS and FF16, so who’s the other one ?
Chris is person who has been working on Japan sales threads for about 20 years now. He was the one making media create threads in neogaf when I started lurking.
 

Kerotan

Member
Dude, Phil Spencer himself, a guy who knows x10000 more than all of us combined, said that MS competes directly with Nintendo. And if MS competes with Nintendo directly, by your own logic, so does Sony.

Or are you arrogant enough to say you know better than Phil Spencer himself, head of Xbox which is a billion dollar company?
Phil literally talk's out his ass all year round. He'll say anything for a few sound bites. MS are directly competing with Sony that's about it.
 

Nautilus

Banned
Phil literally talk's out his ass all year round. He'll say anything for a few sound bites. MS are directly competing with Sony that's about it.
It seems that Phil Spencer, head of Xbox and that works in the industry for decades, constantly lies. But if he does, so does Famitsu, NPD, Media Create, European analysts and every single professional videogame analyst. All of them are lying.

But you, a random internet user in a forum, does not.

lol
 

Three

Member
By being a better overall system(Specs, games, atractiveness) than its competitors.

Simple as that.
giphy.gif

Specs?
 
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Kerotan

Member
It seems that Phil Spencer, head of Xbox and that works in the industry for decades, constantly lies. But if he does, so does Famitsu, NPD, Media Create, European analysts and every single professional videogame analyst. All of them are lying.

But you, a random internet user in a forum, does not.

lol
Phil is literally trying his best to make Xbox look as small as possible so the FTC case goes in their favour. Pretending Nintendo (LOL) are direct competitors to Xbox is laughable.

All those other publications you mentioned I've never once seen them describe switch as a traditional home console so again you shift the goal posts because you know I'm right.
 

Nautilus

Banned
Phil is literally trying his best to make Xbox look as small as possible so the FTC case goes in their favour. Pretending Nintendo (LOL) are direct competitors to Xbox is laughable.

All those other publications you mentioned I've never once seen them describe switch as a traditional home console so again you shift the goal posts because you know I'm right.
They never describe the Switch as a tradicional home console because they don't use that term either for any of the other consoles lol. They are all described just as consoles. We literally have a thread every single month about it. Hell we ARE in a famitsu thread, and yet you don't even bother to look if they ever make any differentiation between the consoles.Which they don't. NPD even put them all the same rank devided by sales and revenue LMAO. That "tradicional home console" is a term you yourself made up to create a "different market" where only Sony exists and so only Sony will ever be number one. Its not even copium, its pure madness.

And again, he is the head of xbox, and of all the things to have an agenda on is.... to consider Nintendo a competitor? A fact as real as the air ever since Nintendo entered the videogame business? And rabbid fans of a Sony consoles, who are random users on a forum that probably never worked in the industry, are completely unbiased?

Lmao
 

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
Between a good balance and compromise between specification, games, and atractiveness of the console(Being hybrid and all).

Raw power increase is losing its power to attract constumers, as opposed to sacrifice it(a bit) in exchange of doing something new. As we are clearly seeing happen in Japan as a clear example.
Im amazed that you just type all these nonsense while disregard what other people says lol

The switch sells in Japan! the whole world doesnt care about visual and performance confirmed!
 
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smbu2000

Member
Im amazed that you just type all these nonsense while disregard what other people says lol

The switch sells in Japan! the whole world doesnt care about visual and performance confirmed!
The Switch doesn't only sell in Japan. It's sold 125million WW and is the the third best selling system ever after the PS2 and NDS. Visuals and Performance do matter, but they are not the most important thing as you can see from Switch WW sales.
 

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
The Switch doesn't only sell in Japan. It's sold 125million WW and is the the third best selling system ever after the PS2 and NDS. Visuals and Performance do matter, but they are not the most important thing as you can see from Switch WW sales.

"Visuals and Performance do matter, but they are not the most important thing as you can see from Switch WW sales."

This is true, games like Zelda and Mario is only available on Switch.

I take it back my previous comment, i dont think our argument here has anything to do about visuals and performance preferences. Its all about exclusivity.
If I can play Zelda on PS5, ill definitely prefer the PS5 version. What i want to say here is, if consumer had a choice, I strongly believe they would pick the "superior" version, which has the better visual and performance.
 
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Woopah

Member
"Visuals and Performance do matter, but they are not the most important thing as you can see from Switch WW sales."

This is true, games like Zelda and Mario is only available on Switch.

I take it back my previous comment, i dont think our argument here has anything to do about visuals and performance preferences. Its all about exclusivity.
If I can play Zelda on PS5, ill definitely prefer the PS5 version. What i want to say here is, if consumer had a choice, I strongly believe they would pick the "superior" version, which has the better visual and performance.
Different people will obviously care about different things. But power is obviously further down the list than other factors for most people given how the PS2, DS and Switch sold.

For third party games, it depends on the genre and franchise history. Some sell better on PlayStation while others sell better on Switch.
 

Nautilus

Banned
Im amazed that you just type all these nonsense while disregard what other people says lol

The switch sells in Japan! the whole world doesnt care about visual and performance confirmed!
What other stuff people said?

Didn't you get it? Its not that people in Japan doesn't care about visual and performance. Its that the performance and visual that the Switch provides is more than enough, but more than that the things the Switch gives that the others don't, its exclusive games and its hybrid nature, are far more atractive than a simple spec boost.

Very few people are visual and performance obsessed like some users here in this forum are. Visual and performance is not the end all, otherwise Sony wouldn't be declining for more than a decade in Japan.
 
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lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
What other stuff people said?

Didn't you get it? Its not that people in Japan doesn't care about visual and performance. Its that the performance and visual that the Switch provides is more than enough, but more than that the things the Switch gives that the others don't, its exclusive games and its hybrid nature, are far more atractive than a simple spec boost.

Very few people are visual and performance obsessed like some users here in this forum are. Visual and performance is not the end all, otherwise Sony wouldn't be declining for more than a decade in Japan.
tbh, our argument here has nothing to do with whether Nintendo is a direct competitor to Sony and Microsoft or not. And im not sure why you keep using Japan as measurement on all types of arguments or narrative.

My answer still the same though, Nintendo is not a direct competitor.
 

Nautilus

Banned
tbh, our argument here has nothing to do with whether Nintendo is a direct competitor to Sony and Microsoft or not. And im not sure why you keep using Japan as measurement on all types of arguments or narrative.

My answer still the same though, Nintendo is not a direct competitor.
I use Japan because we are in the famitsu thread, which is sales data about Japan? If we were in the NPD thread, we would talk about Nintendo in the US and just the US.

Ok, you can think that Nintendo is not a direct competitor for some odd reason, but Phil Spencer, NPD, Famitsu, Media Create, European and all professional analysts all know and treat Nintendo as a direct competitor to Sony and MS for a very simple reason: The Switch is as much a console as the other two. And honestly, everyone puts zero faith in what a random person in a forum thinks versus a professional and the head of a billion dollars and responsible for one of the big three thinks.
 

Kerotan

Member
They never describe the Switch as a tradicional home console because they don't use that term either for any of the other consoles lol. They are all described just as consoles. We literally have a thread every single month about it. Hell we ARE in a famitsu thread, and yet you don't even bother to look if they ever make any differentiation between the consoles.Which they don't. NPD even put them all the same rank devided by sales and revenue LMAO. That "tradicional home console" is a term you yourself made up to create a "different market" where only Sony exists and so only Sony will ever be number one. Its not even copium, its pure madness.

And again, he is the head of xbox, and of all the things to have an agenda on is.... to consider Nintendo a competitor? A fact as real as the air ever since Nintendo entered the videogame business? And rabbid fans of a Sony consoles, who are random users on a forum that probably never worked in the industry, are completely unbiased?

Lmao
expand...
If you've a problem with sub categories then mobile is king.

There are clear categories here.

1.Gaming
2.Consoles
3.Traditional home consoles (Xbox and playstation)
Non traditional portable (switch)

Nauty no matter what you say a console that looks like a handheld, plays like a handheld doesn't suddenly become a traditional home console like ps5 or Xbox just because it can be plugged Into your TV.

If the ps vita had a TV mode and I believe it could actually be connected to a TV with a workaround that wouldn't make it a traditional home console. That's crazy talk.
 
People are buying switches because it's the only way to play Mario, Zelda, Smash, Animal Crossing and the others Nintendo IPs. In Japan People are buying it more because the portability aspect is important.

Also while Switch might look underpowered compared to PS5 / XSX, it's actually a very powerful machine, about X360 level of power which was a beast when released.
 
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Kerotan

Member
People are buying switches because it's the only way to play Mario, Zelda, Smash, Animal Crossing and the others Nintendo IPs. In Japan People are buying it more because the portability aspect is important.

Also while Switch might look underpowered compared to PS5 / XSX, it's actually a very powerful machine, about X360 level of power which was a beast when released.
360 was a beast but we're talking back in 2007. I play a game like lost planet from 360 days by streaming to my ps5 and it looks dogshit these day's.

For a portable device switch is powerful but that's it. You're correct in your first paragraph though. The Wii U made it crystal clear what happens when Nintendo launch a traditional home console even with most of their big ips. They need portability or they're goosed. Wouldn't even match Xbox sales.

It was their swansong in this space and with playstation in full swing can't see Nintendo returning.
 
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Nautilus

Banned
If you've a problem with sub categories then mobile is king.

There are clear categories here.

1.Gaming
2.Consoles
3.Traditional home consoles (Xbox and playstation)
Non traditional portable (switch)

Nauty no matter what you say a console that looks like a handheld, plays like a handheld doesn't suddenly become a traditional home console like ps5 or Xbox just because it can be plugged Into your TV.

If the ps vita had a TV mode and I believe it could actually be connected to a TV with a workaround that wouldn't make it a traditional home console. That's crazy talk.
I'll just keep repeating the equivalent of a sales figure in this conversation, as facts can't be disputed:

"And the people at NPD, Famitsu, Media Create, european and professional analysts has an agenda too?

And again, he is the head of xbox, and of all the things to have an agenda on is.... to consider Nintendo a competitor? A fact as real as the air ever since Nintendo entered the videogame business? And rabbid fans of a Sony consoles, who are random users on a forum that probably never worked in the industry, are completely unbiased?"
 

Kerotan

Member
I'll just keep repeating the equivalent of a sales figure in this conversation, as facts can't be disputed:

"And the people at NPD, Famitsu, Media Create, european and professional analysts has an agenda too?

And again, he is the head of xbox, and of all the things to have an agenda on is.... to consider Nintendo a competitor? A fact as real as the air ever since Nintendo entered the videogame business? And rabbid fans of a Sony consoles, who are random users on a forum that probably never worked in the industry, are completely unbiased?"
😂😂😂 You know you've lost the discussion when you start copying a pasting a reply where you've move the goalposts. It's quite simple. Switch isn't a traditional home console.
 

Nautilus

Banned
😂😂😂 You know you've lost the discussion when you start copying a pasting a reply where you've move the goalposts. It's quite simple. Switch isn't a traditional home console.
Au contraire. The moment I have to start repeating myself is when the other one clearly has run out of arguments and you have to keep repeating in the hopes that the other person eventually understands that no, you're not more important and doesn't have more authority than people who have spent their careers doing this like NPD, Famitsu and Phil Spencer.

Or all you have left are insults?
 

Kerotan

Member
Au contraire. The moment I have to start repeating myself is when the other one clearly has run out of arguments and you have to keep repeating in the hopes that the other person eventually understands that no, you're not more important and doesn't have more authority than people who have spent their careers doing this like NPD, Famitsu and Phil Spencer.

Or all you have left are insults?
I've not got arguments. It's one single point. Traditional home consoles and there's no argument here if you understand the definition of traditional.
 
360 was a beast but we're talking back in 2007. I play a game like lost planet from 360 days by streaming to my ps5 and it looks dogshit these day's.

For a portable device switch is powerful but that's it. You're correct in your first paragraph though. The Wii U made it crystal clear what happens when Nintendo launch a traditional home console even with most of their big ips. They need portability or they're goosed. Wouldn't even match Xbox sales.

It was their swansong in this space and with playstation in full swing can't see Nintendo returning.
Doesn't matter. For a youngster who doesn't play on PC or PS5 when they play Zelda BOTW for the first time it will look like the most beautiful game they ever played. The same way Zelda NES / SNES looked like the most beautiful games when they released.

Besides, those Nintendo games still bring things (1/ importance of gameplay over passive custscenes, 2/ exploration) that many prettier games (like Horizon) sorely lack. This is also why Elden Ring is an incredible success on consoles and PC because it's like a Nintendo game for adults with pretty graphics.
 
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Kerotan

Member
Doesn't matter. For a youngster who doesn't play on PC or PS5 when they play Zelda BOTW for the first time it will look like the most beautiful game they ever played. The same way Zelda NES / SNES looked like the most beautiful games when they released.

Besides, those Nintendo games still bring things (1/ importance of gameplay over passive custscenes, 2/ exploration) that many prettier games (like Horizon) sorely lack. This is also why Elden Ring is an incredible success on consoles and PC because it's like a Nintendo game for adults with pretty graphics.
Oh definitely. It's probably why Nintendo are not too worried about graphical power because a huge target audience for them are kids playing games for the first time.

My first games were on the ps1 but at the time the graphics look amazing because I'd never seen anything else. But as we know those same graphics would be considered dogshit today.
 

Kerotan

Member
Glad we finally agree that Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all compete directly with one another!
That's the most obsurd thing I've ever read. They are literally the definition of indirect competition hence why Sony and Nintendo are doing their best ever. When they were direct competitors they didn't do as well. But as we know they both got stomped into their respective lanes by one another.
 

Walter Matthau

Gold Member
To try and help those that are debating that Switch doesn't compete with PS/XB, let's (falsely) claim the following:
  • Switch can only be played as a portable
  • There is no overlap in game libraries at all between Switch and PS/XB
  • The ~130 million Switch sales and ~1.1 billion software sales are all by or for kids under the age of 18
  • Switch is only as powerful as one of those Tiger Electronic handhelds from the early 90's
Above I took the standard arguments that some posters like to make and dialed them up to 11.

Billy walks into a game store or goes to the games section of a store with a limited budget and limited time to play and can choose between buying Zelda Tears of the Kingdom or Horizon Forbidden West. They choose Zelda Tears of the Kingdom and proceed to play it for 100 hours. In this scenario, Nintendo gains the sale and mindshare while Sony loses. Also works the other way if Billy buys Horizon instead. That's because Nintendo and Sony are competing.

We can try and get super cute about it and claim that Switch owners only play it outside of their home, but we know that's absurd (and btw.. would still compete due to both remote play and cloud). We can make similarly stupid arguments that PS5 and XSX aren't directly competing because their controllers are different, or cloud options, or one is better at playing blu-rays, or one is more about services, etc.

TLDR: PS/XB/SW are all dedicated gaming devices that compete with each other. It's really not complicated. When one is successful, it's often at the expense of the others.
 

Nautilus

Banned
That's the most obsurd thing I've ever read. They are literally the definition of indirect competition hence why Sony and Nintendo are doing their best ever. When they were direct competitors they didn't do as well. But as we know they both got stomped into their respective lanes by one another.
And yet, every single professional person and company involved with the industry(Phil Spencer, NPD, Famitsu, Media Create, European analysts, etc) universally agree that Nintendo competes directly with Sony and Microsoft.

Who is right: Kerotan Kerotan , who is a random poster in an internet forum, or people who worked their entire lifes in the videogame industry?
 

Nautilus

Banned
To try and help those that are debating that Switch doesn't compete with PS/XB, let's (falsely) claim the following:
  • Switch can only be played as a portable
  • There is no overlap in game libraries at all between Switch and PS/XB
  • The ~130 million Switch sales and ~1.1 billion software sales are all by or for kids under the age of 18
  • Switch is only as powerful as one of those Tiger Electronic handhelds from the early 90's
Above I took the standard arguments that some posters like to make and dialed them up to 11.

Billy walks into a game store or goes to the games section of a store with a limited budget and limited time to play and can choose between buying Zelda Tears of the Kingdom or Horizon Forbidden West. They choose Zelda Tears of the Kingdom and proceed to play it for 100 hours. In this scenario, Nintendo gains the sale and mindshare while Sony loses. Also works the other way if Billy buys Horizon instead. That's because Nintendo and Sony are competing.

We can try and get super cute about it and claim that Switch owners only play it outside of their home, but we know that's absurd (and btw.. would still compete due to both remote play and cloud). We can make similarly stupid arguments that PS5 and XSX aren't directly competing because their controllers are different, or cloud options, or one is better at playing blu-rays, or one is more about services, etc.

TLDR: PS/XB/SW are all dedicated gaming devices that compete with each other. It's really not complicated. When one is successful, it's often at the expense of the others.
Its that for some people, its not about having a logical and quite obvious discussion. Its about having my favorite plastic box always being the number 1, and when that isn't the case, I'll scream and yell and pretend the others don't exist.

Its pathetic. I would be ok if they mostly kept that mentality to themselves, but when they try to force that unto others is when I take issue.
 

Kerotan

Member
And yet, every single professional person and company involved with the industry(Phil Spencer, NPD, Famitsu, Media Create, European analysts, etc) universally agree that Nintendo competes directly with Sony and Microsoft.

Who is right: Kerotan Kerotan , who is a random poster in an internet forum, or people who worked their entire lifes in the videogame industry?
Quote from Sony:
"Xbox Wants Us to Be Like Nintendo, a Less Effective Competitor"

Here's a little economics 101 for you.

"What Is Direct and Indirect Competition? Direct competition is any company that offers the same thing as you while indirect competition refers to a business whose products or services are different from yours but potentially could satisfy the same need and reach the same goal."

Nintendo is clearly indirect competition for Sony. How can it be direct competition when the weak ass portable hardware can't even handle most AAA third party games Day 1?
 

Nautilus

Banned
Quote from Sony:
"Xbox Wants Us to Be Like Nintendo, a Less Effective Competitor"

Here's a little economics 101 for you.

"What Is Direct and Indirect Competition? Direct competition is any company that offers the same thing as you while indirect competition refers to a business whose products or services are different from yours but potentially could satisfy the same need and reach the same goal."

Nintendo is clearly indirect competition for Sony. How can it be direct competition when the weak ass portable hardware can't even handle most AAA third party games Day 1?
But everyone, including Phil Spencer, NPD, Famitsu, Media Create, analysts from all over the world agree universally that the Switch competes directly with Sony and MS.

I'm not an economist, but those analysts are, from all those dozens, if not hundreds, of analysts firms. Are you saying they are wrong? That they are stupid? That YOU, a random person in the internet, knows better than them, graduates in economy, data analysis, and what more have you?

Do you know more than them?
 

Kerotan

Member
But everyone, including Phil Spencer, NPD, Famitsu, Media Create, analysts from all over the world agree universally that the Switch competes directly with Sony and MS.

I'm not an economist, but those analysts are, from all those dozens, if not hundreds, of analysts firms. Are you saying they are wrong? That they are stupid? That YOU, a random person in the internet, knows better than them, graduates in economy, data analysis, and what more have you?

Do you know more than them?
How can you directly compete with someone when your software offerings are so different? Are you struggling to grasp basic economic definitions?

Between Nintendo exclusives, Sony exclusives which neither are shared and then you've all the 3rd party's which are generally pc/Xbox/ps (the big boy's) but not on switch.

There are obviously other differences too like price point, hardware power, online offerings, portability. There's a reason most switch owner's also have a pc/Xbox/ps. This is the definition of indirect but cope all you want.
 

Walter Matthau

Gold Member
How can you directly compete with someone when your software offerings are so different? Are you struggling to grasp basic economic definitions?

Between Nintendo exclusives, Sony exclusives which neither are shared and then you've all the 3rd party's which are generally pc/Xbox/ps (the big boy's) but not on switch.

There are obviously other differences too like price point, hardware power, online offerings, portability. There's a reason most switch owner's also have a pc/Xbox/ps. This is the definition of indirect but cope all you want.

I don't know how to get the data, but I'm pretty sure that there are actually a higher total number of third party games that Playstation/Switch share as opposed to Playstation/Xbox.

Anyway, see my post above since all the arguments are essentially meaningless at the end of the day. If you're spending time and money with one console, it's taking away from the time and money you have with another.

For at least the next few weeks, PS5 will be leading sales in these weekly threads. Wonder if you'll keep your same arguments then or if Nintendo will magically become a competitor to which you can compare some data points to.
 

Woopah

Member
How can you directly compete with someone when your software offerings are so different? Are you struggling to grasp basic economic definitions?

Between Nintendo exclusives, Sony exclusives which neither are shared and then you've all the 3rd party's which are generally pc/Xbox/ps (the big boy's) but not on switch.

There are obviously other differences too like price point, hardware power, online offerings, portability. There's a reason most switch owner's also have a pc/Xbox/ps. This is the definition of indirect but cope all you want.
Who was the direct competor to Sony during the PS2 days?
 

Nautilus

Banned
How can you directly compete with someone when your software offerings are so different? Are you struggling to grasp basic economic definitions?

Between Nintendo exclusives, Sony exclusives which neither are shared and then you've all the 3rd party's which are generally pc/Xbox/ps (the big boy's) but not on switch.

There are obviously other differences too like price point, hardware power, online offerings, portability. There's a reason most switch owner's also have a pc/Xbox/ps. This is the definition of indirect but cope all you want.
Because that's the point of exclusives? That's how you, in a competitive market, compete with you competitors? You know, exclusive games, exclusive features, etc? To make it stand up and be more atractive compared to other competitors, when they all compete in the same market(which is videogames in this case)?

Sony and MS uses power and first party to make them stand up, while buying a few exclusive game marketing rights every now and again, while Nintendo uses its own first party and the Switch breakthrough innovations to try to make a better case for people to buy it instead of a PS5 and a Series X or S.

Like you like to say, that's economy 101. You JUST proved my point! Thank you Kerotan.
 
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