Yeah guys! If Comcast tries to pull any of this another startup can just come in and setup shop. Lol free market baby.
To be honest, this doesn't sound like an argument.
Everything about business in a free market is about overcoming barriers. Asking for the government to step in is what becomes the anti-thesis or stifles innovation, because you only maintain a status quo.
Now, I'm not 100% anti-government. I do prefer to meet somewhere in the middle that leads to sensible decisions. I feel like the role of the government should be in upholding the fundamental values of a nation. But other than that, I lean towards being Pro-Corporation, and the government should not interfere with business affairs if its gets in the way of progress.
Sure as long as you ignore the fact that in the free market you so love, corporations get Government hand outs all the time. You're basically arguing that only the current established corporations are deserving of hand outs but new companies need to "overcome barriers"
Let me repeat myself for the one thousandths time.
I hate governments handing out hardworking people's money. It doesn't matter if its welfare receiptants, Politicians or even businesses.
The redistribution of money should only be decided by those the labor of it originates from.
I'd recommend moving out of Canada if you hate the government, that and stop using services provided by your government in some form. No more driving on roads, using the internet, etc.
Otherwise you just sound hypocritical
Man.... Muricaaa is really going down the pan isnt it lol
First, I was born here.
Second, the crown government stole this land from the Native Indians. So maybe they should return it first before saying who is a hypocrite?
So hey, we gonna just pretend you haven't made any substantial attempt to respond to anyone knocking your unsubstantiated opinions?Let me repeat myself for the one thousandths time.
I hate governments handing out hardworking people's money. It doesn't matter if its welfare receiptants, Politicians or even businesses.
The redistribution of money should only be decided by those the labor of it originates from.
That's due to government regulations. Stuff like Obamacare prevents businesses from expanding because it requires that companies with 50 or more employees provide them with healthcare, something small businesses cant afford. Also expensive licences and regulations that require exorbitant cash to start a business and get it running makes it difficult for small businesses.
I hope you do know that it's big corporations that tell government to set up all these regulations to reduce competition. Big corporations love big government. They're siamese twins.
Government create monopolies. Monopolies can't exist in a free market.
It's you that has no idea. Government is only needed to ensure our freedom and liberty. Therefore, just police, army and court.
They will be only if NN isn't repealed. There are 0 consumer benefits to getting rid of it.Well personally, I hope that the consumer is the winner of this particular bout,
They will be only if NN isn't repealed. There are 0 consumer benefits to getting rid of it.
First, I was born here.
Second, the crown government stole this land from the Native Indians. So maybe they should return it first before saying who is a hypocrite?
I didn't ask if you were born the bruv. I'm saying if you're so anti-government, you would do better to move to a country that barely has a functioning Government.
And the land being stolen has nothing to do with my statement of you utilizing government services but complaining about the government creating these services using tax money.
You don't see how hating the government and not wanting it to exist nor for it to use tax money to create services as you use government services is hypocritical?
Reminds me of zany Americans who hate the government and are anti Government but are on government backed healthcare (Medicare? Medicaid?).
Don't gotta move anywhere. I have as much right to this land as the government that murdered Indians and settled on top of it.
Let me repeat myself for the one thousandths time.
I hate governments handing out hardworking people's money. It doesn't matter if its welfare receiptants, Politicians or even businesses.
The redistribution of money should only be decided by those the labor of it originates from.
But... Labor is not going to pick up the tabs for shit that people need to live in a society; sewage, roads, highways, pavement, cables in the ground. There are so many services that labor benefit from, as that they as a result of that benefit pay back to the government. Your taxes are being spend on a lot of stuff under the hood that keeps society afloat.
These all could be privatized. There's nothing about Capitalism that says only the government can pick up garbage. Hell, my seasonal job this year involved cleaning up garbage after we were done cutting grass, and more often than not, it was our company that kept certain areas of the city clean than the government did.But... Labor is not going to pick up the tabs for shit that people need to live in a society; sewage, roads, highways, pavement, cables in the ground.
Vigilant Walrus said:There are so many services that labor benefit from, as that they as a result of that benefit pay back to the government. Your taxes are being spend on a lot of stuff under the hood that keeps society afloat.
Why would the free market ignore a service if there's clearly a demand for it?Yeah, it's a truly delusional viewpoint that all of the necessary and often crucial elements of a society will be taken care of by the free market and profit incentives. There are certain services and infrastructures that the Invisible Hand will either ignore or will do a terrible job at where maximizing profits leads to poor quality and efficiency (just look at healthcare and insurance).
Except Socialism is proven to be a failure and has ended in a lot of deaths when attempted. There is no harm in giving current Capitalist societies even more freedom.demon said:Saying you don't want the government to use taxes to take care of anything is unquestionably just as extremist and just as stupid as some communist calling for an end to capitalism.
Lol I mean where to begin with this post besides lol.These all could be privatized. There's nothing about Capitalism that says only the government can pick up garbage. Hell, my seasonal job this year involved cleaning up garbage after we were done cutting grass, and more often than not, it was our company that kept certain areas of the city clean than the government did.
So there's no benefit when a CEO pays back his employee for doing a job and increasing overall profitably and success of a company? Are you sure you don't have it the other way around where it's the government that leads to a stagnation in services because there is no incentive to do a better job?
Why would the free market ignore a service if there's clearly a demand for it?
Except Socialism is proven to be a failure and has ended in a lot of deaths when attempted. There is no harm in giving current Capitalist societies even more freedom.
Why would the free market ignore a service if there's clearly a demand for it?
Yet it's Capitalism that is quickly raising third world countries out of poverty....Lol I mean where to begin with this post besides lol.
Privatization is not some cure all. In fact in many places it leads to increased costs and suffering especially in monopolistic environments or innelastic goods like medical care.
There will always be one group of people who are above everybody else. At least with Capitalism, it makes it possible for anyone to rise above the ranks when they work hard enough for it. Also, you are given choice. If one company treats you like a slave, you can leave and join another company with better labor conditions. The free market would eliminate companies that people deem to be bad for them.gatti-man said:A pure capitalistic society is a society of slaves and elites. Socialist elements are necessary for a stable capitalist society. This is all basic stuff really.
I'm not American so I don't know the full story, but that sounds bizarre. Are you saying lack of treatment because there are a lack of hospitals/doctors?gatti-man said:First of all the USA has more medical deaths because of lack of treatment than any modern socialized medical care country like Canada, Australia, Germany, France etc.
Yet it's Capitalism that is quickly raising third world countries out of poverty....
There will always be one group of people who are above everybody else. At least with Capitalism, it makes it possible for anyone to rise above the ranks when they work hard enough for it. Also, you are given choice. If one company treats you like a slave, you can leave and join another company with better labor conditions. The free market would eliminate companies that people deem to be bad for them.
With government/socialism, the elites hold a monopoly that the working class are never allowed to touch.
I'm not American so I don't know the full story, but that sounds bizarre. Are you saying lack of treatment because there are a lack of hospitals/doctors?
One thing I know about US healthcare is that people from my country (Canada) actually go there to skip the wait times for surgery or any other emergency medical attention.
How is this thread now about capitalism vs not capitalism?
Jordan N, why don't you answer to any of the points I made that are actually on topic? You know, about Net Neutrality? You've made a habit of saying incorrect or at the least unprovable statements and when you've been called out you switch to some unrelated topic. That's the sign of someone with weak opinions.
Let me repeat myself for the one thousandths time.
I hate governments handing out hardworking people's money. It doesn't matter if its welfare receiptants, Politicians or even businesses.
The redistribution of money should only be decided by those the labor of it originates from.
Don't gotta move anywhere. I have as much right to this land as the government that murdered Indians and settled on top of it.
So going by your previous post you're suggesting you don't have any right?
I just find it funny you complain about government services while utilizing a shitton of government services. You basically don't really mean anything you're saying, because if you really did you'd ya know...not use those services.
I didn't know the government was allowed to set up services on stolen land. But I'm the hypocrite.
These all could be privatized. There's nothing about Capitalism that says only the government can pick up garbage. Hell, my seasonal job this year involved cleaning up garbage after we were done cutting grass, and more often than not, it was our company that kept certain areas of the city clean than the government did.
So there's no benefit when a CEO pays back his employee for doing a job and increasing overall profitably and success of a company? Are you sure you don't have it the other way around where it's the government that leads to a stagnation in services because there is no incentive to do a better job?
I didn't know the government was allowed to set up services on stolen land. But I'm the hypocrite.
Who let it get to that point in the first place?You're not going to make your money back on the trillions it will cost to repair the 10,000+ decaying roads and bridges.
Who repairs cars? Or even buildings?Vigilant Walrus said:There is no competing income for having having repaired a bridge.
But it's not government if anyone can start their own business and offer competing services. A government only maintains a monopoly that taxpayers can't opt out from.Vigilant Walrus said:Companies would just make a government again. Society would not function without it.
According to who?Vigilant Walrus said:I said that labor wouldn't be able to exist without the goverment.
So just ignore private schools exist?Vigilant Walrus said:Labor didn't pay to educate the workforce
"Safety of society"Vigilant Walrus said:Labor didn't pay for the safety of society
You haven't explained how all these services are exclusive to the government. "Costing a lot of money" is not an argument.Vigilant Walrus said:. All these things cost trillions and labor just set up shop and and act fucking entitled.
Because the government is so humanely and cares for its people right? They're not possibly money hungry either hence why taxes continue to go up and up?Vigilant Walrus said:They don't give a shit about anything other than making a profit.
I say the same about the government. Why should I trust my life with a group of people who already have their lives made and have no real incentive to care for me other than when voting season comes around in which case, they can just lie till the election is over.Vigilant Walrus said:Humans are a non factor and they can go fuck themselves from the point of view of a corporation.
So explain why does the government needs taxes then?Vigilant Walrus said:It's not that corporation or capitalism is evil, but it's futile to think that somehow everything that matters is money.
The Socialist republic of China has horrible looking environments. The people there are always suppressed from speaking their minds. But remind me how it's corporations, who clearly need to respect the customer to continue to earn a living, are the bad ones?Vigilant Walrus said:government are supposed to keep corporations in check, because corporations are not fit or invested in the well being of people or the enviornment.
Remind me of the history the U.S government's attitudes towards the Native Americans again. Maybe explain what the reservation system is about?Vigilant Walrus said:From their point of view, it's just another black mark on the native americans.
Why worry about the end date? When that happens it happens. For now, it is the only system that works.Vigilant Walrus said:Many people have predicted that capitalism have a end date- when corporations become to big to fail, and when you cannot have new players.
I'll look into to this how, although the reasons you listed shouldn't theoretically be because of free markets/capitalism.Vigilant Walrus said:I challange you to look at the correlation between nations that have more regulations and protections; I
Vigilant Walrus said:Government serves a really important purpose.
I look at Socialist countries to see how government run services are worse.
Actually, not even that. Since people keep calling me for being Canadian, I don't see my own government being effective. If I want the best service, it's not the government providing it, it's the many private businesses that actually care about me as both a customer and human being.
Care about you as a human being... what?
Sorry, no. No corporation does that. The second you stop paying them is the second they stop caring.
And again, this still ignores the point.
Oh, so you don't use them? Or are you just being dumb?
I'm good friends with some businesses in my city and they sometimes offer me free gifts just because they know I'm a good person who doesn't mean any harm. It's also a great way to make connections. Not everything is about money. If I have something they want, I'm willing to help them for free.
If I go to the government for just one small request, they'll instantly tell me "that's not my job. You have to go through 1712176712671 channels and contact the person in charge of 171276712 division who , if you're lucky, might look into your concerns. After they're done taking their 3 week vacation of course."
The government knows when taxes pay for everything, they don't have to care about the very people it comes from, because they have it made. Nobody is going to tell them otherwise unless they get voted out.
The derail is complete. Good job Jordan. No one is talking about NN anymore.
Hope you get a taste of the brew your corporate buddies are preparing for ya.
Who let it get to that point in the first place?
Who repairs cars? Or even buildings?
But it's not government if anyone can start their own business and offer competing services. A government only maintains a monopoly that taxpayers can't opt out from.
According to who?
So just ignore private schools exist?
"Safety of society"
Remind me how police forces can shoot anyone at will?
You haven't explained how all these services are exclusive to the government. "Costing a lot of money" is not an argument.
Because the government is so humanely and cares for its people right? They're not possibly money hungry either hence why taxes continue to go up and up?
I say the same about the government. Why should I trust my life with a group of people who already have their lives made and have no real incentive to care for me other than when voting season comes around in which case, they can just lie till the election is over.
So explain why does the government needs taxes then?
The Socialist republic of China has horrible looking environments. The people there are always suppressed from speaking their minds. But remind me how it's corporations, who clearly need to respect the customer to continue to earn a living, are the bad ones?
Remind me of the history the U.S government's attitudes towards the Native Americans again. Maybe explain what the reservation system is about?
Why worry about the end date? When that happens it happens. For now, it is the only system that works.
I believe government has a purpose, but only when it comes to upholding certain rights. But I do not believe the government should heavily profit off of private business success because that's exactly how the government is free to take other peoples money and waste it.
I didn't know the government was allowed to set up services on stolen land. But I'm the hypocrite.
So in other words, it was the government.Voters who tuned out due to laziness, indifference and apathy. The governments policy in a free representative democracy usually follows the needs of the people or the next government usurps them.
So it's impossible for a bridge repair company to exist? I pointed to cars and buildings because the private sector already takes care of them.Vigilant Walrus said:What does a car or a building have to do with repairing a bridge? I'm talking about infrastructure, not the small stuff.
Do you not see the obvious problem? Dissatisfied taxpayers leave a city, infrastructure rots even further, city cares less because they have even less income to tax from or the people who stay behind are ok with run down facilities.Vigilant Walrus said:No, that's wrong. Taxpayers can opt out by moving away.
Yet I found all my jobs on my own instead of getting help from the government. I wager for a lot of people, they too got into their jobs through networking, applying directly, or starting own. Not waiting for the government to hand them one.Vigilant Walrus said:According to all of human history post the dawn of agriculture. In all major societies, the pattern has been the same.
They have no other choice like any other business that resides in a country. That doesn't mean it's the government that created them.Vigilant Walrus said:Private schools use water, electricity, heat, parking spaces made by the government.
That's an interesting response. I'm going to save that for the future.Vigilant Walrus said:The brutality and misconduct of police are in minority.
I believe in police, just not ones that are clearly owned by the government and are allowed to be corrupt. Like in my example from the above. Police guns down innocent civilian, government run court says cop is free to go or offers "paid leave".Vigilant Walrus said:If you honestly are arguing that we don't need police, I am beginning to think that you're more of an anarchist than a libetarian in your arguments. Or a mix of both.
Supermarkets exist because people eat food in their every day lives. Doesn't mean we need the government to control every single one. There's no reason the same doesn't apply to every other service you believe the government is necessary for it to happen.Vigilant Walrus said:No, that's not what I am saying. I am saying that, there are services people need to make their lives work, that you cannot monetize
Offer a subscription model that includes street signs, lamps and parking spaces as apart of using the main road service.Vigilant Walrus said:Let's say that you want to build new street signs, street lamps, parking spaces, new roads. You put it out on the free market? You know it will cost upwards 500 million dollars. Which companies are going to bid on that? How are you going to make street lamps for the public and make money of that?
Politicians are liars though. Just look at how Trump can change his tune everyday and gets away with it. The government only cares about itselfVigilant Walrus said:In many countries successful governments are elected due to pushing taxes down. At the expense of the quality of the rest of society.
No, governments are self interested, but in free representative democracies, elections can decide who they want and vote out a government. So if the people care about taxes, the politicians care about taxes so they can win.
In that way, single issues that have caught in the public have caused politicians to change their tune. .
I've worked side by side them.Vigilant Walrus said:Have you ever worked for the government?
Even though said money comes from labor from the private sector who are generating the profits the government needs to do their job(or lack of)...Vigilant Walrus said:To pay for the services labor cannot make money off.
Don't matter if they're a democracy. Why should they be? It was in reply to what you saidVigilant Walrus said:China is not an example of a good democracy which is what we're talking about
I can tell you right now, the government is directly responsible for destroying the lives of native indians. No way around it. Don't blame it on racism. The government is full of racist people who thanks to their monopolistic power, were able to subject the native people to horror with no one to oppose them.Vigilant Walrus said:The government is not at fault for the mistreatment.
There is no and probably wont be another system that's better than capitalism for the foreseeable future. It's not short sighed when the other option is what?Vigilant Walrus said:Because it's not good to be short sighted. "when that happens it happens" is not wisdom.
So it's my opinion when these politicians sit around doing nothing but clap and scream in Parliament, while the rest of the country continues to see little improvement but they still continue to suck my tax dollars while raising it more and more?Vigilant Walrus said:What you think is waste is your opinion.