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[FStop7]

Given that he supposedly addressed it as 'your games' towards the guy I think it goes further than a mere generalisation. It's creating an exclusionary atmosphere and attempting to make somebody the butt of a mean spirited joke based on their nationality.

Precisely.

 

[djtiesto]

Hmmm. Guy must have taken a few blows to the head or something:

http://www.northcountrynotes.org/jason-rohrer/arthouseGames/seedBlogs.php?action=display_post&post_id=jcr13_1196041006_0&show_author=1&show_date=1

Some choice quotes:

Honestly, Fez has a whole lot more to do with the original Mario than with Super Paper Mario or Crush. And if you have to know, the 3 main inspirations for the game are Super Mario Bros., The Legend of Zelda, and Ico. I am deliberately using lots of mechanics and old cliches from those games. Because cliches are comforting. Since the rotation mechanic and level design might not be immediately easy to understand, I wanted everything else to be. So I just took a bunch of objects and things and concepts from these old games to give gamers a point of reference. A lot of Fez's design, besides the 2D/3D mechanic, is very oldschool for that reason. I wanted it to have a kind of "comfort food" appeal to it. It's cute, it's friendly, and you half-know what to expect from it. Except you don't. Or do you?

I'm trying real hard right now not to let Super Mario Galaxy bleed off all over me. I've been playing tons of the game and I'm absolutely in love with it. I always loved the classic Mario 64 structure of having you play variations of a same level with different challenges. Or what Donkey Kong Jungle Beat (which shares a lot of team members with SMG) did with the medals. I like this idea of currency used to unlock levels. We may use a similar system. Or not. Who knows.

Took me 6 hours to finish Ico and I only played it once. And I think it's a masterpiece. Rez may take you what, 1 hour to beat? But it's like the best hour of your life. If you play through Fez once and you had your fun, that's good enough for me. In fact it's perfect.

JR: What electronic game do you consider to be the pinnacle of artistic achievement?

PF: I have 3. Well, maybe not the absolute pinnacle, but these 3 games had a pretty big part in my realization that games could be about more than exploding fists and volcanoes full of robots.

My shinny golden tri-force of artsy awesomeness... ICO, REZ, and KATAMARI DAMACY.

 

[Codeblue]

He has a good point though.

A sweeping generalization is never a good point, it's trash.

 

[King_Moc]

It's so idiotic that we really shouldn't even discuss it. We shouldn't give a moron free advertising just because he's clearly prejudiced.

 

[R_thanatos]

As the doctor says :
"Fezs are cool, cowboy hats are cooler".

But anyway this guy is a little too young to be taken seriously.

Even Japanese devs ( from kojima, inafune, miyatomoto , ect ) know that they need to evolve So there is an issue somewhere but the japanese games doesn't suck.

i'm still looking at some great game design from japan ( fighting games , platformers ) that the west can't even emulate properly.

 

[Riposte]

Oh I get it now, Fez is art

 

[Chocoboko]

Oooh I think they are going to conveniently "forget" to discuss this.

Hopefully they don't. Would love to hear Mark react to this. I can only imagine, lol.

 

[codhand]

Hmmm. Guy must have taken a few blows to the head or something:

No I'm sure he's just being edgy a la Jaffe.

 

[Ledsen]

First the "Fez is a comfy couch game therefore no PC" thing and now this. Sounds like this guy is a complete idiot.

 

[Dave Long]

Hmmm. Guy must have taken a few blows to the head or something:

Nah... I think he's just an asshole.

 

[2San]

Hmmm. Guy must have taken a few blows to the head or something:

http://www.northcountrynotes.org/jason-rohrer/arthouseGames/seedBlogs.php?action=display_post&post_id=jcr13_1196041006_0&show_author=1&show_date=1

Some choice quotes:

That's some really bizarre stuff. I think someone needs to tell him that "There is no such thing as bad publicity" is bullshit. :O

 

[atomsk]

Refusing to buy a game because its creator rudely broad-brushes what has generally been considered a truism this generation is irrational.

And while you say it's a "truism", I look at my game collection from "this generation" and wonder what you're on about? Plenty of great games from the US, Japan, Europe, etc etc. Yes, I am including handhelds in "this generation", I don't believe they are some small screened ghetto. GOOD GAMES ARE GOOD GAMES

I'm not sure how it's the least bit irrational to not want to give money to someone who would so easily tear someone else down at a public panel.

Do I give less/no money to companies who have policies I don't agree with? You bet! The only Activision game I've bought this gen was Jurassic: The Hunted (and bought used at that) The last Capcom game I bought was Resident Evil 5.

When you're a public figure/company, have a little respect for your peers/customers. (Valve gets it). Otherwise don't be surprised when they stop giving you money.

I highly doubt they will call out Phil for his idiocy. In fact, with how they generally talk about Japanese games, I think we can expect some really ignorant shit from Ryan and Patrick, and possibly even Jeff.

If they really want to defend this, I'm done with the site. I know my clicks don't matter (and I'm not a subscriber), but it's still the principle of the thing

 

[Kikujiro]

I wouldn't call it a "double standard" (which implies sexism), but it looks really bad on his character after spending a lot of effort talking about people being unprofessional. I'm kind of confused on how serious GDC takes itself.

In any case if it does get mentioned on Giant Bomb, I figure there is a 50/50 chance something annoying comes out of it. I wouldn't be surprised if he invited him for a feature to talk about how Japanese games stink.

Exactly, nobody is equating the two things, there's no reason to. The funny thing is that these righteous journalists are so happy to jump on a community and judge it from their high morality ground, yet they are here lolling while their friend behaves like an asshole (and continue to behave like an asshole), because you know, he just says shit, that's the way he is (this reminds me something).

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

First the "Fez is a comfy couch game therefore no PC" thing and now this. Sounds like this guy is a complete idiot.

I read that a couple of times in the thread, he seriously say that? lol if so.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Has the developer he was speaking to been identified? Because "your games just suck" could be an entirely true statement.

 

[codhand]

he just says shit, that's the way he is (this reminds me something).

But if you water Phil down he's just not Phil anymore!

 

[hearsaybear]

That's some really bizarre stuff. I think someone needs to tell him that "There is no such thing as bad publicity" Is bullshit. :O

I'm sure Ocean Stratagy will be glad to help.

 

[2San]

And while you say it's a "truism", I look at my game collection from "this generation" and wonder what you're on about? Plenty of great games from the US, Japan, Europe, etc etc. Yes, I am including handhelds in "this generation", I don't believe they are some small screened ghetto. GOOD GAMES ARE GOOD GAMES

Consoles have pretty good Japanese showing as well. It's just that they are lagging a bit technically and management wise imo. Though that doesn't stop them from releasing damn fine games.

I'm sure Ocean Stratagy will be glad to help.

Match made in heaven.

 

[Nemo]

Hmmm. Guy must have taken a few blows to the head or something:

http://www.northcountrynotes.org/jason-rohrer/arthouseGames/seedBlogs.php?action=display_post&post_id=jcr13_1196041006_0&show_author=1&show_date=1

Some choice quotes:

Lmao, someone should remind him of this post

 

[angelfly]

I read that a couple of times in the thread, he seriously say that? lol if so.

“Fez is a console game, not a PC game,” he states, emphatically. “It’s made to be played with a controller, on a couch, on a Saturday morning. To me, that matters; that’s part of the medium.” I get so many comments shouting at me that I’m an idiot for not making a PC version. ‘You’d make so much more money! Can’t you see? Meatboy sold more on Steam!’ Good for them. But this matters more to me than sales or revenue. It’s a console game on a console. End of story.”

.

 

[PowderedToast]

can this wave of derivative retro fetishist indie games end already? i was done after cave story. i have zero tolerance for ignorant hipster assholes who squee with joy when they get a chance to cite the brilliance of ico and katamari in public.

 

[FlyinJ]

Who is willing to bet that when he eventually does release it on Steam it won't have controller support.

 

[Anteater]

I read that a couple of times in the thread, he seriously say that? lol if so.

I think so, found this on google:

“Fez is a console game, not a PC game,” he states, emphatically. “It’s made to be played with a controller, on a couch, on a Saturday morning. To me, that matters; that’s part of the medium.” I get so many comments shouting at me that I’m an idiot for not making a PC version. ‘You’d make so much more money! Can’t you see? Meatboy sold more on Steam!’ Good for them. But this matters more to me than sales or revenue. It’s a console game on a console. End of story.”

http://www.nowgamer.com/features/950149/fez_interview_polytrons_phil_fish.html

Well at least he's getting publicity from this :lol

Edit: oh oops beaten!

 

[Amir0x]

I think there are exceptions, notably the Dark Souls series, but I do play a lot of Japanese games, and they are without exception increasingly getting more and more irrelevant in terms of modern game design, and they consistently seem out of touch. If it's not Nintendo, I can safely bet the game will be making about eighty dozen pathetically obvious mistakes if it's from Japan.

I don't know if it's because of how hard it was for Japanese developers to get a handle on next-gen game development and so it took them a similarly long time to start focusing on gameplay again, but this gen I have a one hand worth of Japanese games I will take with my in my memory into next gen (I haven't played Xenoblade yet, though, which Nintendo finally inconveniently announces a few days after I sold the shitty Wii), whereas last gen I had probably fifty or more. And that includes handhelds... which, for my money, had a ton of releases that looked good on paper, but in terms of being any good, most of them were just as janky as their console brethren.

 

[Orayn]

.

THAT IS EXACTLY HOW I PLAY MY PC GAMES YOU PRETENTIOUS ASSHAT! Goddamn, this guy is insufferable.

 

[bernardobri]

The moment I saw this I knew that this thread would be filled with:

1. Sweeping generalizations on Japan and retaliatory responses from Japanese fans
2. References to weebs and Final Fantasy
3. People ignoring handheld consoles

I am very biased (obviously) since I have an avatar from a Japanese game, run a blog that reviews only Japanese games, and 90% of my gaming collection is comprised of Japanese games. With that said, I do agree that Japan needs to be more efficient and timely in games. I written multiple articles about how Japanese gaming development is hampered by an esoteric management structure that does not promote creativity. Japan does create amazing games with incredible creativity and innovation, the management culture and the organizational structure in Japanese companies do hamper creative and innovative culture.

See, we can have discourse without resorting to name calling and knee jerk reactions.

Will anyone pay attention to this post?

 

[Pachterballs]

This honestly makes me not want to buy Fez.

a little bit of this.

the trailer was also.. meh.

 

[djtiesto]

I think there are exceptions, notably the Dark Souls series, but I do play a lot of Japanese games, and they are without exception increasingly getting more and more irrelevant in terms of modern game design, and they consistently seem out of touch. If it's not Nintendo, I can safely bet the game will be making about eighty dozen pathetically obvious mistakes if it's from Japan.

I don't know if it's because of how hard it was for Japanese developers to get a handle on next-gen game development and so it took them a similarly long time to start focusing on gameplay again, but this gen I have a one hand worth of Japanese games I will take with my in my memory into next gen (I haven't played Xenoblade yet, though, which Nintendo finally inconveniently announces a few days after I sold the shitty Wii), whereas last gen I had probably fifty or more.

What mistakes do you think they are making in terms of game design, that isn't also true of many western games? I'm asking in terms of game design, not in terms of artstyle/setting/etc... because apart from online co-op I don't really see many areas where the west completely outdoes Japan in terms of gameplay.

 

[geebee]

Has the developer he was speaking to been identified? Because "your games just suck" could be an entirely true statement.

Doesn't matter. The guy acted like a rude piece of shit.

 

[Jintor]

Seems like kind of a dumb opening comment

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

.

I think so, found this on google:



http://www.nowgamer.com/features/950149/fez_interview_polytrons_phil_fish.html

Well at least he's getting publicity from this :lol

Edit: oh oops beaten!

Thanks. That's an incredible stupid thing to say, maybe it's due to the time exclusivity with XBLA?...anyway...it's still stupid.

 

[Toxa]

he's right

 

[Tallshortman]

This isn't about Japanese game fanboys and Japanophiles being offended.

This is a pretentious dip that that insulted almost half of his developer peers and seems to think it's a big laugh.

Yeah I generally don't like Japanese games at all, especially RPGs. However, this guy is a poor reflection on Western devs and a complete asshole to say the least. He was obviously trying to embarrass that Japanese guy just to get "GAMER CREDZ!". I wasn't even aware his game existed and don't plan on touching it at all as the trailer looked fairly meh.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Given that he supposedly addressed it as 'your games' towards the guy I think it goes further than a mere generalisation. It's creating an exclusionary atmosphere and attempting to make somebody the butt of a mean spirited joke based on their nationality.

Eh, well, I read the situation from the written accounts as being awkward due to the blunt nature of the language used, but not intentionally mean-spirited. I don't have any reason to seriously believe that he would espouse an intentionally hurtful sentiment in a public space among many media members in attendance.

 

[Raonak]

Well fuck, what's up with these arrogant indie devs these days.

Want going to buy fez, but now i'll make sure to actively avoid it. actually who is that japanese guy, I should just buy his game

 

[GarthVaderUK]

Isn't it kinda hypocritical to call someone out for being rude, then start calling them names?

 

[Kientin]

:3

Yeah... just saw some more posts on how there isn't going to be a PC version. Welp so much for that...

 

[Cat Party]

I don't really care that he has or expresses that opinion, but to do it like that at an industry event is beyond embarrassing for everyone involved.

 

[Neuromancer]

actually who is that japanese guy, I should just buy his game

Yeah does no one know who that guy was?

 

[3rdman]

Well, he's right...Even the supposed best of the best (Zelda Skyward Sword) is something I can't even manage to finish. Still a dick move but frankly it seems that the Japanese game makers have been stuck in 2001 and all the games (that I've played) feel like iterations of older titles. IMO

Perhaps a little kick in the groin will be for the best down the line...

 

[Riposte]

Who decides "relevancy" and how?

 

[King_Moc]

he's right

Yes, that's right. All Japanese games suck.

Can you even hear yourself?

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

Well, he's right...Even the supposed best of the best (Zelda Skyward Sword) is something I can't even manage to finish. Still a dick move but frankly it seems that the Japanese game makers have been stuck in 2001 and all the games (that I've played) feel like iterations of older titles. IMO

I don't think many people would consider Zelda:SS the best japanese game of the gen.

 

[wondermega]

it's hard to make valid points in threads like this 'cuz they move so fast (posters steamrolling through new pages with all the drama!)

Based on what he said, between this event and things in the past, I'll assume he is a super-fan of Japanese development at it's best (more so than any other scene) and is probably very disappointed with what has become of it, to the point where he can write it all off as a generalization.

Speaking in front of a bunch of people in a panel can have funky effects on folks (who might already not be particularly comfortable speaking in public to begin with) and it's possible that his raw thought skipped his brain and went straight through to his mouth unfiltered. As for his twitter follow-up, maybe he still hasn't "properly apologized" as people would have liked, but he is sticking to his stance which makes sense (and which a lot of people have been agreeing with for some years now). This is not a personal endorsement, I think there are still lots of interesting product coming from Japan development, but it's a huge world away from even a couple of years ago

I hope people can try to take that into consideration and not crucify his new game which looks like it was made with a lot of consideration of what was great about that Japanese heyday, rather than slam the guy/"try to kill his career" due to some poor choice of word and snarky attitude.

 

[distantmantra]

Still a dick move but frankly it seems that the Japanese game makers have been stuck in 2001 and all the games (that I've played) feel like iterations of older titles. IMO

Yet he's making a game that is an amalgamation of older titles. But with indie whimsy!

 

[Monroeski]

I love how many people in here are taking his comment that Japanese games suck to mean that he believes that 100% of Japanese games are terrible and that nothing good EVER comes out of the country, as though saying "bububu Mario Galaxy!" is going to prove his opinion completely and irrefutably wrong.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Yeah does no one know who that guy was?

and that japanese developer grew up to be albert einstein

 

[Orayn]

Yet he's making a game that is an amalgamation of older titles. But with indie whimsy!

And oodles of HEART and CHARM!

 

[codhand]

“What Nintendo doesn’t seem to realise is that indies and hobbyists aren’t just indies and hobbyists; we’re the next generation. "

http://www.nowgamer.com/features/950149/fez_interview_polytrons_phil_fish.html

Edit: oh oops beaten!

 

[panama chief]

show how you feel with your wallet....