Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
It did get a wall of shame though, and for an issue that was in no way, shape or form as bad as Fish saying all modern Japanese games suck (which.. isn't really bad either, just dumb).
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Fez's dev to japanese developers: "your games just suck"
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It did get a wall of shame though, and for an issue that was in no way, shape or form as bad as Fish saying all modern Japanese games suck (which.. isn't really bad either, just dumb).
LordPhoque
Banned
Because it's true ?
Actually 53 pages, though I guess you cant help it as you are a 100 post/page peasant. haha lol
You can give someone your honest opinion without being a complete and utter shit.
This is something that Phil Fish was apparently unable or unwilling to do.
My problem with Fish isn't that he doesn't like contemporary Japanese games. My problem is that he threw his opinion in the face of a Japanese developer in the most crass, abrasive, and (dare I say it) hurtful way possible, in front of a room full of people. That's not being 'frank', it's being an asshole. It has nothing to do with whether or not I agree with his opinion - if Fish had said something like, "I feel Japanese game design has failed to change with the times and I'm really disappointed by that. I hope that game designers in Japan find their way again, because they've done some great work in the past," I doubt anyone would have had an issue with him.
This has been explained to you enough times by enough people that there's really no excuse for you not to get it.
.. But it's really not.
This offends me more than everything that has been said in this thread.
Rahxephon91
Banned
Psh. Peasants have less not more.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Back in my day we would put 50ppp people in prison
Togglesworlh
Banned
That is correct. Most of what I've had to say on the topic has been completely objective. "This is what I heard and saw."
I've never defended Fish's statements - at least, I've never defended the way he presented those statements - but I have defended Fish, because he acknowledged that what he said was rude literally moments after he said it and apologized for it.
No he didn't.
It's true that it's not the best apology, but that's hardly insulting the guy.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Regardless of all of this, it must feel pretty cool knowing you've entrenched yourself in the incestual world of game news reporting far enough that virtually every outlet that even mentions the debacle will put the spin on defending the aggressor than highlight what a churlish collegial fuckpit GDC is transmogrifying into.
I always love when Blow's "Zelda iteration 9(10? main ones i mean) held your hand and felt boring!" argument (Nintendo in casual audience appeasement SHOCKER) is drafted into an articles argument to make it sound like the entire dragging of a country's sum development efforts in recent years through the mud with fuzzy attacks that could be lobbed at 90~% of western bilge was with some kind of murky merit "they have to know they suck! all of them! you, asian man, will shoulder this burden and report back to your peers, from hells heart we retro pixel platformer producers stab at thee!!" -- ultimately resulting in a humble man making his excuses and needing to get the fuck out of there quicksmart afterwards.
The point of the panel, the bile-tastic Indie Game: The Movie, is striving so hard to cast these individuals as the thinking men of our time, these poorly done to artists eternally suffering for their craft. Its enjoyable that the main buzz out of the affair was to reveal they're mostly just antisocial dickholes. Who knew!
I always love when Blow's "Zelda iteration 9(10? main ones i mean) held your hand and felt boring!" argument (Nintendo in casual audience appeasement SHOCKER) is drafted into an articles argument to make it sound like the entire dragging of a country's sum development efforts in recent years through the mud with fuzzy attacks that could be lobbed at 90~% of western bilge was with some kind of murky merit "they have to know they suck! all of them! you, asian man, will shoulder this burden and report back to your peers, from hells heart we retro pixel platformer producers stab at thee!!" -- ultimately resulting in a humble man making his excuses and needing to get the fuck out of there quicksmart afterwards.
The point of the panel, the bile-tastic Indie Game: The Movie, is striving so hard to cast these individuals as the thinking men of our time, these poorly done to artists eternally suffering for their craft. Its enjoyable that the main buzz out of the affair was to reveal they're mostly just antisocial dickholes. Who knew!
Togglesworlh
Banned
That single post is filled with more bile than anything that happened during that panel.
The lesson is, as always, choose your words carefully.
I was going to get in here earlier but I saw a string of 10 or so anime girl avatars and a "Shenmue Defense Force" guy and thought NOPE.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Indeed. I just don't think it's right to hold a man's mistake against him for as long as some people here probably will. If he does it again? By all means, I will be right there with you. But from what other people have said to me and from my own brief experience just talking to him at the IGF booth, he seems like a perfectly nice guy who made a mistake.
I also think a lot of people who disagree with his opinions are grasping on that mistake just so they have an excuse to hate him that isn't "his opinion isn't my opinion!" Which is a shame, because he would otherwise be a source of very interesting opinions.
hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka
Member
Stop trying to humanize Phil Fish. He's a reckless shikigami and should be treated as such.
Togglesworlh
Banned
my bad, dyg!
Fantastical
Death Prophet
I seriously can't believe the level of hate this guy is getting. It was a stupid comment and he has directly appologized to the Japanese man. I was annoyed for about a day, and people are still hoping this guy makes no money off a game he's been working on for years because of one comment.
I know this is the internet, but Jesus Christ...
nincompoop
Banned
That's true, the 100ppp peasants do have fewer pages to read than us glorious 50ppp master race members!
Exclamation-One
Member
I can believe it, and it is absolutely deserved. This is Phil Fish's Daikatana moment, and I hope it follows him around for a long, long time.
P.S. If you don't like my opinion, suck my dick. Choke on it.
Phonomezer
Banned
This thread is still going?
Wow..... I don't know what to say...
she's hot!
Wait... you're entitled to your opinion but he's not?
Edit: oh wait, you were quoting... ah forget it. My bad.
Rahxephon91
Banned
Touche.
And the racist comments seem to be a bit much. It's a little overdone now. I doubt he's a racist because he thinks Japanese games suck. The actual Japanese part is kind of irrelevant. He dosent dislike them because they are Japanese. He dislikes the games that happen to be Japanese.
Jacksonlee
Member
lol.... racist XD.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Wow... could that website have any more advertisements? Also I'm pretty sure that's that girl who started all those ridiculous Wii U rumors.
hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka
Member
It's a great site, man. Their guide on how to make gold fast in Runescape written by EMO MAGE305 is great.
EDIT: Holy. shit.
That's some fine journalistic work right there.
boiled goose
good with gravy
He could have pointed out what he dislikes about modern japanese games in a polite respectful matter. That would have been enlightening and fair.
His answer was rude and immature.
His answer was rude and immature.
cj_iwakura
Member
Now that's just an insult to shikigami.
Agent Unknown
Member
Togglesworth said:
Thanks, very interesting to hear the point of view of an actual eyewitness.
He was obviously pretending to be sorry while getting another quick dig in. Going to have to agree to disagree on that one.
Agent Unknown
Member
I reeeeaally hope I'm right when I assume by the tone that those are supposed to be sarcastic humor pieces. These also make me seriously question her true intent/objective with her "sympathy" posts to Makoto and labeling Fish a racist.
JasonUresti
Member
When you live your life as an arrogant, too hip for the room, aloof, and generally a bit of a dick, who frequently is rude and condescending, this stuff eventually happens to you.
Perhaps this one instance wasn't a huge deal, but when you keep acting this way and talking shit, you'll end up saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, and like some twisted form of karma, the internet and public at large will come crashing back at you, for all you've done.
It's similar to the Don Imus thing. Imus spent years talking shit, and saying things just as bad or worse than the nappy headed hoes thing that ended up destroying his career. Imus happened to say this one rude and insensitive remark at the wrong time though, and got eaten alive by the backlash.
Is it fair that Fish got dog piled, and got the stuffing beaten out of him over this? Probably not. Is it hard to feel too sorry for a guy with a history of these types of moronic statements. Yes.
Perhaps this one instance wasn't a huge deal, but when you keep acting this way and talking shit, you'll end up saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, and like some twisted form of karma, the internet and public at large will come crashing back at you, for all you've done.
It's similar to the Don Imus thing. Imus spent years talking shit, and saying things just as bad or worse than the nappy headed hoes thing that ended up destroying his career. Imus happened to say this one rude and insensitive remark at the wrong time though, and got eaten alive by the backlash.
Is it fair that Fish got dog piled, and got the stuffing beaten out of him over this? Probably not. Is it hard to feel too sorry for a guy with a history of these types of moronic statements. Yes.
Riposte
Member
weeaboo and dudebro should both be barred from use, at least when used seriously. "You are a moron" vs "We are morons! (lol)" Is anyone under any illusion either contribute to the conversation?
Foxy Fox 39
Banned
While he didn't insult the guy per se (but an industry he represented) that's not an apology and im surprised you think it still is and not insulting. Insulting his craft and country, then saying "wait I'm sorry that was rough, but"...and saying basically the exact same thing is not an apology.
e.g.
"You're a fat disgusting slob"
"Hmm, I was a bit rough, sorry, but you are a fat disgusting slob and could gain to lose some of that extra poundage"
"You're country sucks."
"hmmm I was a bit rough...sorry, but your country does really suck dude."
Just because you say "I'm sorry" doesn't mean its an apology.
A lot of words used to dance around my question. Are you going to answer it or not?
You probably saw my question for it what it was. A trap. If you answered it then you would look like a hypocrite.
Interesting. I don't agree but you make some good points. I subscribe to the belief that one can and should always maintain the higher ground no matter what the other person does.
Take notes Togglesworlh...that is how you answer a question. Duke brought up some good points about taking a stand on an issue.
It wasn't an accusation it was an observation. There's a big difference.
Biiiig difference. Ginormous.
I wasn't the only one who saw it as frank:
"Inafune said that he completely agrees with Fish's comment. "I want to give him a round of applause because it's a very brave action of giving an honest criticism," Inafune said."
-from a Kotaku article
Don't have a problem with you thinking that it was rude. We all have the right to interpret stuff differently. And then make our opinions known.
My problem is that some feel the right to spout off obscenities and don't see the hypocritical nature of that.
Speaking of racist the word "Racist" is a label that has more meaning than "douchebag" and "asshole". Its something you can demonstrate. It doesn't seem so kindergartenish.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Oh shit, the troll came back out from under the bridge!
Quick, everyone throw some meat at 'im!
Quick, everyone throw some meat at 'im!
Ideally, I'd like people to be civil because they genuinely care about the effect their words can have on others. Unfortunately, there are always going to be some folks who can't empathize with other people, and are just straight-up callous. That's the category Phil Fish seems to fall into. I'll settle for seeing people like that show some tact because they're worried about the possible consequences for themselves, even if they don't care about the other guy.
So no, I'm not going to weep bitter tears for Fish if he loses sales over this. In fact, I'm hoping he does. Maybe not enough to bankrupt him, but enough for him to feel it in his wallet. Having that as a constant reminder that yes, being a jerk to other people can hurt you, too, may be enough to make him think twice the next time he feels the urge to behave like a tool in a public venue.
The game has won two IGF awards, is the major focus of a film that won Best Editing at Sundance, is going to get a large amount of mainstream press and will end up with a Metacritic rating hovering around 90. The few hundred lost sales probably won't mean a lot.
I wonder if Phil Fish has considered responding to her tweet claiming he was racist by using his signature line. That would probably get Fish another thread on GAF all about him.
Togglesworlh
Banned
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
You may well be right. There's no way to accurately measure the effect this is going to have, sales-wise. You seem awfully confident about how well-received the game will be by the gaming press, though. I'm not quite sure I see where you're getting 'a Metacritic rating hovering around 90' from.
Zia said:
Talked to a gaming friend about this and this was our conclusion. The game looks hot. We're both getting it. Maybe I'll buy some points for my friends so they also get it.
People can do what they want with their money I don't have a problem with people boycotting it. Seems far more principled than swearing your head off at the guy.
What is the point of your post? Grow up.
Agent Unknown
Member
To summarize:
GDC/Twitter meltdown Phil Fish:
Post GDC/Twitter meltdown/Kotaku interview Phil Fish:
GDC/Twitter meltdown Phil Fish:
Post GDC/Twitter meltdown/Kotaku interview Phil Fish:
Same reason most of the San Francisco gaming media have glossed over this incident or acted like Fish is the real victim. They protect their own.
now this is off topic. but WTF. Either she sucks at trying to troll or she really believes that shit and is just fucking retarded.
Togglesworlh
Banned
I dunno. What's the point of all of yours? Grow up.
Don't play semantics games. You accused me of lying and failed to back that up when I called you out on it. Twice.
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