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[Dash_Riprock]

I'd argue it didn't hold up BEFORE it's released even. Yea it's conceptually outdated in those 10 years of development.

Yep. This makes me even more nervous for FFVII Remake since they're once again building off the same concepts.

How sad that in less than a decade, SE for me has gone from "New FF game? I'm there!" to "Um, I think I'll wait for reviews first..."

 

[Zimmy64]

I'm not sure where I fit in this cesspool of craziness. I actually think that FF XIII is the best 3d Final Fantasy. Better than VII, VIII, IX, X, XII, and XV. I like them all. Liked XV better than most and am enjoying XII a lot right now. IMO the gambit system is too hands off however. The paradigm system I feel is the natural evolution of it and does everything it does better.

 

[Mediking]

I'd argue it didn't hold up BEFORE it's released even. Yea it's conceptually outdated in those 10 years of development.

??? Final Fantasy XV had alotta potential. My biggest issue is that game wasn't finished so it shouldn't have released for $60. If you're blatantly missing story content then don't release at $60. That's a insult to launch buyers.

There ARE some fun things about the game like fighting and customizing the car.

It just hurts to see so much amazing potential just.... not deliver.

I'm still stunned the game STARTED the way it did.

 

[Death Penalty]

??? Final Fantasy XV had alotta potential. My biggest issue is that game wasn't finished so it shouldn't have released for $60. If you're blatantly missing story content then don't release at $60. That's a insult to launch buyers.

There ARE some fun things about the game like fighting and customizing the car.

It just hurts to see so much amazing potential just.... not deliver.

I'm still stunned the game STARTED the way it did.

Pretty much exactly my thoughts. I followed this game for a decade, and it could have been a lot more than it was. With the messy dev cycle though, it's hard to blame any one party and I don't hold any ill will for either Nomura and his team nor Tabata and his crew.

 

[ULTROS!]

And then there's the opening of FFXV or "we don't know what story to tell... go repair ur car!"

what an awful, awful game.

I like how you tried to put FFXV as an opportunity when I'm not even talking about it!

Get over it guys. I thought the FFXV's opening was kinda dull but I wasn't even talking about it. Does "I hate FFXV" need to be inserted at every opportunity?

 

[LowParry]

I like how you tried to put FFXV as an opportunity when I'm not even talking about it!

Get over it guys. I thought the FFXV's opening was kinda dull but I wasn't even talking about it. Does "I hate FFXV" need to be inserted at every opportunity?

I mean, look at the OPs history with these kinds of threads. It's a circle jerk of hate. Then of course we have the lovable subject of CODE:STELLA.

 

[Mediking]

Pretty much exactly my thoughts. I followed this game for a decade, and it could have been a lot more than it was. With the messy dev cycle though, it's hard to blame any one party and I don't hold any ill will for either Nomura and his team nor Tabata and his crew.

I don't really blame anyone.... BUT... I do think Tabata or Business Division 2 or whoever needs to work on his story-telling skills and directing skills.

There's just no way I would've started FFXV the way it begins in the game. JUST NO.

There's just no way I wouldn't have had many costumes in the game.

There's just no way I wouldn't have had Iris and Aranea in the party longer.

I can go on and on.... lol

 

[Death Penalty]

I don't really blame anyone.... BUT... I do think Tabata or Business Division 2 or whoever needs to work on his story-telling skills and directing skills.

There's just no way I would've started FFXV the way it begins in the game. JUST NO.

There's just no way I wouldn't have had many costumes in the game.

There's just no way I wouldn't have had Iris and Aranea in the party longer.

I can go on and on.... lol

As a big fan of the series I totally get where you're coming from, but when they couldn't include key moments in the story like what Ravus' whole deal is, I'm not too surprised that that other stuff fell through the cracks. There were even features in Episode Duscae that weren't able to ship in the final product. I think what you said is spot on, the game felt completely unfinished. I'd have liked to see what Tabata and his team could do with another year.

I try to keep a fair amount of sympathy for Tabata and his team though, because it's clear to me that they had to cut away a great deal and the troubled dev cycle can't be wholly pinned on them. This wasn't even their project to begin with, but it sorta became their mess. Having really loved Crisis Core and been lukewarm on Type-0, I'm ready to give Tabata one more chance considering the circumstances. But to be honest, I worry you might be right about he and his team's storytelling chops. Type-0's narrative wasn't very good, either.

 

[Azerare]

FF12 should make you realize how more bad every other turn based RPG is.

I had FFIX show me the way.

 

[Mediking]

As a big fan of the series I totally get where you're coming from, but when they couldn't include key moments in the story like what Ravus' whole deal is, I'm not too surprised that that other stuff fell through the cracks. There were even features in Episode Duscae that weren't able to ship in the final product. I think what you said is spot on, the game felt completely unfinished. I'd have liked to see what Tabata and his team could do with another year.

I try to keep a fair amount of sympathy for Tabata and his team though, because it's clear to me that they had to cut away a great deal and the troubled dev cycle can't be wholly pinned on them. This wasn't even their project to begin with, but it sorta became their mess. Having really loved Crisis Core and been lukewarm on Type-0, I'm ready to give Tabata one more chance considering the circumstances. But to be honest, I worry you might be right about he and his team's storytelling chops. Type-0's narrative wasn't very good, either.

Type-O was another game with alotta potential... but just wayyy too many characters. Should've just been Ace and 2-3 other people in the main cast.

And lemme tell ya... I really did defend FFXV when I beat near launch. At the time, I didn't really acknowledge its problems because I was too busy being emotional that the entire game was a suicide mission for Noctis and Luna.

But then time passed and I was like.... this game is clearly not finished.

But taking the game for what it even is, Tabata/BD2 has got to step their own game (pun intended) up. They're working on a new IP? That's chill. Just make sure it isn't a mess.

 

[Death Penalty]

Type-O was another game with alotta potential... but just wayyy too many characters. Should've just been Ace and 2-3 other people in the main cast.

And lemme tell ya... I really did defend FFXV when I beat near launch. At the time, I didn't really acknowledge its problems because I was too busy being emotional that the entire game was a suicide mission for Noctis and Luna.

But then time passed and I was like.... this game is clearly not finished.

But taking the game for what it even is, Tabata/BD2 has got to step their own game (pun intended) up. They're working on a new IP? That's chill. Just make sure it isn't a mess.

Though I don't always agree with the general consensus, I do always have a fun time in those FF threads with you guys. Like you, I'll be looking at what Tabata does next really closely, though unlike before with most SE offerings I'll be waiting for some reviews and impressions. It's sad, but I don't feel like I can trust SE to deliver something I'll like every single time anymore.

On topic, while XII was not my favorite FF or even close, I think it's really easy to look fondly on it when compared with XV for the simple fact that XII feels one hundred percent feature and story complete.

 

[Mediking]

Though I don't always agree with the general consensus, I do always have a fun time in those FF threads with you guys. Like you, I'll be looking at what Tabata does next really closely, though unlike before with most SE offerings I'll be waiting for some reviews and impressions. It's sad, but I don't feel like I can trust SE to deliver something I'll like every single time anymore.

On topic, while XII was not my favorite FF or even close, I think it's really easy to look fondly on it when compared with XV for the simple fact that XII feels one hundred percent feature and story complete.

Hahahah I don't blame you for waiting for reviews and impressions but that's not really my style. If I see a game I'm interested in, I'm pretty sure gonna try my best to get it around launch.

Mass Effect: Andromeda has been slapped around like crazy but guess what? It's one of my favorite games this gen. I will always defend that game.

That's why I don't really attack people who love FFXV so much. If you love a game, you love it. BUT!!! It is frustrating when you see people clearly ignore the problems a game has.

 

[HotHamBoy]

There ARE some fun things about the game like fighting and customizing the car.

A banner feature for a Final Fantasy game if I ever saw one.

 

[CheckMate]

There are valid criticism that are universal for XV, but I feel the game benefits of being the only one of it's kind currently in the market. With all the "mature" games that are coming out and all-ages games from Nintendo in the other hand, you don't really have that mid between game that has both and offers a AAA experience.

Essentially, there aren't a lot of games similar to XV this generation which makes sense that it's gets some love from some folks here, even with all the glaring faults the game has.

 

[TuXx]

Woah you know what's crazy,OP?

FF9 made me realize how bad FF10, FF12, FF13 and FF15 are in comparison

Crazy how sequels work

 

[Mediking]

A banner feature for a Final Fantasy game if I ever saw one.

That's bait for a "What's REALLY Final Fantasy?" and I'm not taking it. Lol I refuse.

WE ALL KNOW THERE IS NO CLEAR ANSWER ON WHAT FINAL FANTASY IS.

It's one of its strengths and weaknesses.

 

[HeelPower]

That's bait for a "What's REALLY Final Fantasy?" and I'm not taking it. Lol I refuse.

WE ALL KNOW THERE IS NO CLEAR ANSWER ON WHAT FINAL FANTASY IS.

It's one of its strengths and weaknesses.

At this point, its only a negative.

The series lacks a strong vision or direction. They have no idea what to do with it.

Its better to have a strong identity and formula upon which to base your game than be aimless and try to invent the wheel every single entry.

 

[Death Penalty]

Hahahah I don't blame you for waiting for reviews and impressions but that's not really my style. If I see a game I'm interested in, I'm pretty sure gonna try my best to get it around launch.

Mass Effect: Andromeda has been slapped around like crazy but guess what? It's one of my favorite games this gen. I will always defend that game.

That's why I don't really attack people who love FFXV so much. If you love a game, you love it. BUT!!! It is frustrating when you see people clearly ignore the problems a game has.

To be clear I'm on board with VII:R day one because I'm a legitimate Nomura fanboy, but being familiar with Tabata's works I'll probably take a wait-and-see approach since XV is on paper my perfect game but I felt pretty burned by it. Same deal with Toriyama, because I didn't much care for XIII. I like your optimism though, and personally I look back at a lot of my favorite games and realize I may have skipped or waited on them if I listened to reviews.

You bring up a really interesting point to me in seeing fans of a game you dislike. I agree that harassing them is really gross and I do my best to avoid it. As I see it, we're all fans here and it should definitely be a safe place. But, like you say, when people don't seem bothered by what seems like a glaring flaw to you, it can be totally frustrating! Like, the way that XV shipped I think is inexcusable, and I don't want to see SE ship a game in that state ever again. XII lost its director too, and I think they were able to salvage that project quit well, but XV seems like it'll always have the scars of its shift. It can be difficult not to get a little heated when discussing that with others because XV represents a lot of aspects I don't want to see return to the series. But then you see guys like ULTROS! in here who are these genuinely nice people who go into threads trying to discuss a game they like and you have to feel bad for them.

This fanbase is rough sometimes. Like, I dealt with a lot of the same thing when I was being a fanboy for Versus XIII delay after delay, and again with VII:R with Nomura seeming to get a lot of abuse when he's my favorite director. I dunno, I wish we could be nicer to each other.

As a side note, I have been considering getting ME:A, and am pleased to hear you enjoyed it. I can enjoy games with a lot of flaws if they have an awesome combat system, and it seems like Andromeda does indeed have that.

 

[SomewhatGroovy]

The opening is shockingly terrible.

Useless in media res,pointless car pushing cutscene straight into a generic mmo kill quest from Cindy.

XV is just wow.

So is the hyperbole. Luckily, story is one element that contributes to a memorable game.

This thread is all sorts of crazy. Thankfully there's a game in the series for someone.

 

[SporeCrawler]

That's the Final Fantasy effect at work. The recent entries will be bombarded with a vocal minority of players criticizing it. Happened with XII, XIII and now XV.

Whenever the next entry comes out it usually takes a lot of that heat off of it.

FFXII also has the benefit of being able to fast-forward gameplay which keeps the game from being a slog.

i cant see anyone praising FFXV in the future. it is just too disjointed and even the best bits of the game, its open world segments, were done so much better by GTA V, witcher 3, xenoblade x or botw (just to name a few examples). but i do think that the open world bits can be quite beautiful.

aside of that there is nothing redeemable. combat is trash tier, rpg elements are barely even there, the second half of the game is a corridor rpg of the worst kind, characters are mostly bad (okay ayden was good and the four dudes hanging out can be enjoyable). Heck even FFXIII, which had a way more confusing story at least had the battle system that redeemed the game

FFXII in comparison has much better lore, better combat and the story makes sense.

To be clear I'm on board with VII:R day one because I'm a legitimate Nomura fanboy, but being familiar with Tabata's works I'll probably take a wait-and-see approach since XV is on paper my perfect game but I felt pretty burned by it. Same deal with Toriyama, because I didn't much care for XIII. I like your optimism though, and personally I look back at a lot of my favorite games and realize I may have skipped or waited on them if I listened to reviews.

You bring up a really interesting point to me in seeing fans of a game you dislike. I agree that harassing them is really gross and I do my best to avoid it. As I see it, we're all fans here and it should definitely be a safe place. But, like you say, when people don't seem bothered by what seems like a glaring flaw to you, it can be totally frustrating! Like, the way that XV shipped I think is inexcusable, and I don't want to see SE ship a game in that state ever again. XII lost its director too, and I think they were able to salvage that project quit well, but XV seems like it'll always have the scars of its shift. It can be difficult not to get a little heated when discussing that with others because XV represents a lot of aspects I don't want to see return to the series. But then you see guys like ULTROS! in here who are these genuinely nice people who go into threads trying to discuss a game they like and you have to feel bad for them.

This fanbase is rough sometimes. Like, I dealt with a lot of the same thing when I was being a fanboy for Versus XIII delay after delay, and again with VII:R with Nomura seeming to get a lot of abuse when he's my favorite director. I dunno, I wish we could be nicer to each other.

As a side note, I have been considering getting ME:A, and am pleased to hear you enjoyed it. I can enjoy games with a lot of flaws if they have an awesome combat system, and it seems like Andromeda does indeed have that.

so this is the problem. its evident that nomura has done next to nothing for a decade and only rushed out some demos or trailers to hype up the game. then tabata comes in and fixes that shit and gets the blame.


after FFXV I dont think anybody should think nomura is capable of greatness automatically

Woah you know what's crazy,OP?

FF9 made me realize how bad FF10, FF12, FF13 and FF15 are in comparison

Crazy how sequels work

to be fair FF9 was better than FF7 and FF8 easily

At this point, its only a negative.

The series lacks a strong vision or direction. They have no idea what to do with it.

Its better to have a strong identity and formula upon which to base your game than be aimless and try to invent the wheel every single entry.

they should have called bravely default FF. it was the best jrpg SE put out in years (yes even with that loop thing)

I'm not sure where I fit in this cesspool of craziness. I actually think that FF XIII is the best 3d Final Fantasy. Better than VII, VIII, IX, X, XII, and XV. I like them all. Liked XV better than most and am enjoying XII a lot right now. IMO the gambit system is too hands off however. The paradigm system I feel is the natural evolution of it and does everything it does better.

XIII has a god tier combat system. if you take the joy of combat alone it may even trump some of the pre-FF7 games. the game just has a confusing story and lore and the story telling isnt very good. FF XIII-2 remedied a lot of that

 

[The Emperor]

At this point, its only a negative.

The series lacks a strong vision or direction. They have no idea what to do with it.

Its better to have a strong identity and formula upon which to base your game than be aimless and try to invent the wheel every single entry.

Yup. 'every FF is different' to me now sounds like a trump administration quote

The series lacks vision. When it focussed on making innovative changes to settings and growth mechanics whilst maintaining a strong vision was perfect

 

[Mediking]

At this point, its only a negative.

The series lacks a strong vision or direction. They have no idea what to do with it.

Its better to have a strong identity and formula upon which to base your game than be aimless and try to invent the wheel every single entry.

I hear you... but I would argue that Final Fantasy does have a vision of some sorts. It's just up to the writers/developers to execute the vision right. And some people are gonna like it... and some people are gonna say it's trash.

And it can be a strength because it keeps the series exciting in its own unique way.

To be clear I'm on board with VII:R day one because I'm a legitimate Nomura fanboy, but being familiar with Tabata's works I'll probably take a wait-and-see approach since XV is on paper my perfect game but I felt pretty burned by it. Same deal with Toriyama, because I didn't much care for XIII. I like your optimism though, and personally I look back at a lot of my favorite games and realize I may have skipped or waited on them if I listened to reviews.

You bring up a really interesting point to me in seeing fans of a game you dislike. I agree that harassing them is really gross and I do my best to avoid it. As I see it, we're all fans here and it should definitely be a safe place. But, like you say, when people don't seem bothered by what seems like a glaring flaw to you, it can be totally frustrating! Like, the way that XV shipped I think is inexcusable, and I don't want to see SE ship a game in that state ever again. XII lost its director too, and I think they were able to salvage that project quit well, but XV seems like it'll always have the scars of its shift. It can be difficult not to get a little heated when discussing that with others because XV represents a lot of aspects I don't want to see return to the series. But then you see guys like ULTROS! in here who are these genuinely nice people who go into threads trying to discuss a game they like and you have to feel bad for them.

This fanbase is rough sometimes. Like, I dealt with a lot of the same thing when I was being a fanboy for Versus XIII delay after delay, and again with VII:R with Nomura seeming to get a lot of abuse when he's my favorite director. I dunno, I wish we could be nicer to each other.

As a side note, I have been considering getting ME:A, and am pleased to hear you enjoyed it. I can enjoy games with a lot of flaws if they have an awesome combat system, and it seems like Andromeda does indeed have that.

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret.

All that Nomura trash-talk is mostly said in joke and playfulness (I'm like 75% sure). Nomura is pretty well respected and he's become a meme at this point. He's a edgelord who likes to stall on developing his games = his meme. But we all know that's he's a TALENTED edgelord. Lol

 

[Death Penalty]

I'm gonna let you in on a little secret.

All that Nomura trash-talk is mostly said in joke and playfulness (I'm like 75% sure). Nomura is pretty well respected and he's become a meme at this point. He's a edgelord who likes to stall on developing his games = his meme. But we all know that's he's a TALENTED edgelord. Lol

so this is the problem. its evident that nomura has done next to nothing for a decade and only rushed out some demos or trailers to hype up the game. then tabata comes in and fixes that shit and gets the blame.


after FFXV I dont think anybody should think nomura is capable of greatness automatically

Heh.

I don't really let it get to me, though. I can definitely admit he has some pretty big flaws, he's slow as hell and he does love his edge. But he's also never released a game I didn't like, so regardless of delays and other such things, he gets the benefit of the doubt until he releases a disaster for me. The kind words are appreciated, though, definitely.

Nomura wasn't my point in any case, I more meant for those folks who really like XV and feel like they're constantly getting crapped on, I definitely sympathize. The FF fanbase is particularly split and in gaming circles there's a real culture of piling on and being really harsh about it. It's nice to see a lot of cooler heads starting to prevail in any case, and I appreciate folks like you (Mediking) and other backbone FFGAF members who keep their composure and measure their responses.

I didn't like XV, but I really don't want to be a jerk about it. I want to have a dialogue.

 

[Gunslinger]

So I started playing this game again on PS4 (remaster) and the story is star wars.

Vaan = Luke Skywalker
Baltheir and Frann = Han Solo and Chewbecca and their ship is the millenium falcon.
The guy we rescued from prison = Obi wan (mentor character)
The captured rebel leader = Leah
Dalmascus = Tatooine

I mean i just got to the floating city (bespin?). But until now this game seems to me heavily inspired by star wars. Not science fiction but space fantasy setting like star wars. Lots of Alien Races like star wars etc.

 

[Mediking]

Heh.

I don't really let it get to me, though. I can definitely admit he has some pretty big flaws, he's slow as hell and he does love his edge. But he's also never released a game I didn't like, so regardless of delays and other such things, he gets the benefit of the doubt until he releases a disaster for me. The kind words are appreciated, though, definitely.

Nomura wasn't my point in any case, I more meant for those folks who really like XV and feel like they're constantly getting crapped on, I definitely sympathize. The FF fanbase is particularly split and in gaming circles there's a real culture of piling on and being really harsh about it. It's nice to see a lot of cooler heads starting to prevail in any case, and I appreciate folks like you (Mediking) and other backbone FFGAF members who keep their composure and measure their responses.

I didn't like XV, but I really don't want to be a jerk about it. I want to have a dialogue.

Thats when GAF is at its best: encouraging discussion and making friends or having a good time in the process.

 

[Death Penalty]

So I started playing this game again on PS4 (remaster) and the story is star wars.

Vaan = Luke Skywalker
Baltheir and Frann = Han Solo and Chewbecca and their ship is the millenium falcon.
The guy we rescued from prison = Obi wan (mentor character)
The captured rebel leader = Leah
Dalmascus = Tatooine

I mean i just got to the floating city. But until now this game seems to me heavily inspired by star wars. Not science fiction but space fantasy setting like star wars. Lots of Alien Races like star wars etc.

Fun fact, a lot of stories are Star Wars and Star Wars did not originate the narrative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero's_journey

Without spoiling you, though, XII doesn't follow this narrative as much as you might think at this stage of playing it.

 

[Copper]

XV was overall an average game, I'll admit I enjoyed it but it still had a some glaring flaws that make it a bad FF game. Especially compared to XII.

XV feels rushed and incomplete. Like they ran out of budget and decided to throw it out in what ever form they could. This especially shows in the second half of the game. There is evidence of cut content and I feel like I shouldn't have to watch a movie and an anime to help get the full story. It actually baffles me that Square has the gull to charge money for character DLC that really should have been in the main game to begin with.

XII on the other hand feels much more complete and fulfills the FF experience. Dungeons are more unique and not copy pasted mob rooms. Even the worst characters seems to have more depth than the XV party.

The more I think of XV the worse I remember it. I feel like it could have benefited a lot from an extra year of development.

 

[Orniletter]

I haven't played XV yet, but if the sentiment about the 4 main characters developing a strong bond together through the game is true, then I can't fathom how XII can top it with its nothing story, nothing protagonists, and nothing villains. Even the cool select characters (Fran, Balthear, Basch) couldn't carry the dead-weight that was the rest of that game. :/

It's not by any means and those who spout this have crazy low standards. All you get is some """bros being bros banter""" (really low quality and not funny or entertaining) and some horrendous...I don't even know what to call it, but it's certainly not character development. More like "things happen to the protagonists and nobody really acknowlegdes shit".

Suddenly Noctis is whiny and Gladio is angry at him. And wow, Ignis is blind now. It's terrible. Really, really bad. As is the entire game.

 

[MetalliCabombination]

lol this thread
lol quality modding.
someone should say something about the switch

 

[Billy_Pilgrim]

lol this thread
lol quality modding.
someone should say something about the switch

The remaster would actually be perfect for Switch.

 

[ULTROS!]

But then you see guys like ULTROS! in here who are these genuinely nice people who go into threads trying to discuss a game they like and you have to feel bad for them.

<3

I try to go with a mindset that all FFs have strengths and weaknesses, but focusing mostly on the strengths. I hated FFXII 11 years ago but after playing TZA, it made me realize it's a good game through and through.

If people were to argue what is the best FF, no one can give a definite answer, most popular sure you can give but each FF is a different experience. One FF can be your definitive FF experience, the other one can be your outlier in the FF series.

They all have strengths and weaknesses, it's a matter if you can swallow and accept these weaknesses or not.

The remaster would actually be perfect for Switch.

If there was a thread "Final Fantasy XV is being considered for other platforms", it will be one hell of a storm (from console preference begging to comparing XV to the rest of the FF games).

 

[Death Penalty]

<3

I try to go with a mindset that all FFs have strengths and weaknesses, but focusing mostly on the strengths. I hated FFXII 11 years ago but after playing TZA, it made me realize it's a good game through and through.

If people were to argue what is the best FF, no one can give a definite answer, most popular sure you can give but each FF is a different experience. One FF can be your definitive FF experience, the other one can be your outlier in the FF series.

They all have strengths and weaknesses, it's a matter if you can swallow and accept these weaknesses or not.

I try to keep the same mindset, even when I don't like a game. Especially in Final Fantasy, I think you've nailed it in saying that everyone has their own favorite and what's no good for you may be great for others. For instance, in both XIII and XV I hated the combat system, but in my anecdotal experience these are by far the most praised parts of both games! Maybe I'm just getting old. I'll be real sad if I outgrow FF, this is easily my favorite franchise.

I'm with you in that I didn't like XII but have a bit of a renewed respect for it thanks to this remaster. So with that in mind, I appreciate the struggle that you're going through with XV and am happy to see that you're remaining positive. I think FF fans in particular require thick skin because for most titles after VI there's definitely a decent portion of fanbase that will tell you your favorite sucks.

Please have mercy on me if VII:R is terrible because I know I'll eat that up even if it is.

 

[Kikujiro]

This is nonsense... that was never the case with Final Fantasy games. Even VIII, which clearly has problems, was primarily praised. Final Fantasy used to be like Zelda: untouchable for the first year or so. Real criticism always came after a decent gap of time. On that topic, it isn't like people are suddenly claiming that FFXIII is a brilliant game. I would say the majority of the FFXV detractors would tell you that it is still a better game than XIII.

That's not true at all, back then FFVIII was hated as hell, because it came after FFVII and people didn't like the high-schoolers party. FFX was hated as well, because there wasn't an overworld and it was basically a love story (plenty of people called it the "death of the FF franchise"). The irony is that both FFVIII and FFX are the most popular games sales-wise after FFVII.

 

[Spukc]

That's not true at all, back then FFVIII was hated as hell, because it came after FFVII and people didn't like the high-schoolers party. FFX was hated as well, because there wasn't an overworld and it was basically a love story (plenty of people called it the "death of the FF franchise"). The irony is that both FFVIII and FFX are the most popular games sales-wise after FFVII.

FFX was so bad.
I never played the og one only the remake.
But its basically ff13 with an even shittier battle system. And no freedom &#128528;

forced myself to play the game but after 15 hours i said no more.

 

[Mediking]

Just got an ad for that Final Fantasy XV mobile game....

 

[Spukc]

Just got an ad for that Final Fantasy XV mobile game....

Don't

 

[AgentLampshade]

The cold opening in XV ruined my friends experience since he guessed

Spoiler

Ifrit was a major antagonist. He worked backwards from there and guessed almost every plot point hours before it happened.

 

[APZonerunner]

Hahahah I don't blame you for waiting for reviews and impressions but that's not really my style. If I see a game I'm interested in, I'm pretty sure gonna try my best to get it around launch.

Mass Effect: Andromeda has been slapped around like crazy but guess what? It's one of my favorite games this gen. I will always defend that game.

That's why I don't really attack people who love FFXV so much. If you love a game, you love it. BUT!!! It is frustrating when you see people clearly ignore the problems a game has.

The funny thing is I actually think ME:A and FF15 are fairly similar - lengthy years of R&D, experimental development and struggles that went nowhere, struggles with engines and tools (In ME's case, a great engine not necessarily ready for the genre/scope, in FF15's case, straight up bad tools still in development) and then an actual game built in a very short amount of time (18 months for MEA, a little over 24 for FF15).

They took two different paths through this: FF15 took a machete to a lot of its ideas, but the ones it executes on it does so fairly well and in a polished manner for the most part. ME:A kept absolutely everything in and is actually quite ambitious when you take a step back, but the end result is a muddled mess where basically nothing was polished.

At this point, its only a negative.

The series lacks a strong vision or direction. They have no idea what to do with it.

Its better to have a strong identity and formula upon which to base your game than be aimless and try to invent the wheel every single entry.

This is a very real problem, yeah. Dragon Quest is too static, I'd argue, but the differences from Persona 3 to 4 to 5 prove that you can do very different things within a fairly rigid definition of a series - but FF doesn't have that luxury. That used to be a positive, but that was when times were simpler, games were cheaper to make and when, to be honest, they had more visionary and more controlled people at the helm (I think a lot of the SE staff now are either visionary but have no control, like Nomura, or safe but relatively bland, like Tabata).

 

[BocoDragon]

Fun fact, a lot of stories are Star Wars and Star Wars did not originate the narrative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero's_journey

Without spoiling you, though, XII doesn't follow this narrative as much as you might think at this stage of playing it.

I don't think it's an accident. I do think XII is very consciously an homage to Star Wars' dynamics. FF as a whole takes inspiration from Star Wars ("resistance fighting an evil empire", ever play an FF with that?), but this one in particular embraces its themes.

But the tone and setting is so its own that I think it's a worthy repurposing of a classic. Similar to how Star Wars itself was in homage to The Hidden Fortress and Buck Rogers. It's different and artful enough that it's laudable.

 

[Orniletter]

Xenoblade X is nasty. You have to love the convulted combat system to put it above FFXV.well mobility is another huge plus

And actual sidequests worth doing and a much much better world to explore. The combat is not convoluted at all, there is some meat to it and some real progression compared to XV's overly simplistic battle system.

XCX is so much better put together than XV as an openworld JRPG.

FF cycle in full effect in this thread.

There is no Final Fantasy cycle, the mainline games have been dropping in quality ever since X. XII is still a flawed gem, XIII disappointing and flawed but actually finished compared to the like 4/10 affair that was XV.

 

[Sheroking]

FFX was so bad.
I never played the og one only the remake.
But its basically ff13 with an even shittier battle system. And no freedom &#65533;&#65533;

forced myself to play the game but after 15 hours i said no more.

There's immensely more freedom in X than XIII.

That's not true at all, back then FFVIII was hated as hell, because it came after FFVII and people didn't like the high-schoolers party. FFX was hated as well, because there wasn't an overworld and it was basically a love story (plenty of people called it the "death of the FF franchise"). The irony is that both FFVIII and FFX are the most popular games sales-wise after FFVII.

Every Final Fantasy game, including XII, was hated by some segment of the fanbase for some reason or another.

VII's heat came later.

 

[Caronte]

WE ALL KNOW THERE IS NO CLEAR ANSWER ON WHAT FINAL FANTASY IS.

It was pretty clear when Sakaguchi was still there. What a coincidence that the series started going downhill when he left and they started changing everything for the sake of change.

 

[Wamb0wneD]

Woah you know what's crazy,OP?

FF9 made me realize how bad FF10, FF12, FF13 and FF15 are in comparison

Crazy how sequels work

That's not how sequels have to work.

 

[Pantz]

Some stuff I wish they would bring back:

Optional/hidden party members
Each character having their own story parts to learn about
Memorable side quests and locations with their own stories.
And much more...

Don't bring back modern car/road travel.

 

[Orniletter]

I'm confused, I thought FFXV was received very well but a lot of people seem to really dislike it. Is this a vocal minority or did the game just disappoint in the end?

The triple whammy of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (open world, interlinking gameplay systems), Nier: Automata (fully realized narrative, combat, on a shoestring budget at that) and Horizon: Zero Dawn (the culmination of "traditional western AAA open world RPGs", good combat, crafting and decent overworld) have demonstrated just how utterly XV failed in literally every game design category, narrative and even in presentation.

People start to see it for what it is.

 

[Figboy79]

I love FFXII, but I will never understand some folks need to put down another game in a similar genre to prop up another.

Personally, I'm glad games like FFXII, Persona 5, FFXV, etc etc exist at all, because they have their good stuff and bad stuff. Not everything has to be the GOAT. It's okay to just be good.


But yeah, FFXII is one of the GOATs. I got to play a little of the remaster, and they did a great job so far.

 

[Myths]

I have always found it funny how fans have to use the newer installment to appreciate an older one because the latest entry is somehow trash. Happens all the time with "Damn, in hindsight it wasn't that awful on second thought." &#128530;

 

[Dr Thor]

It's not by any means and those who spout this have crazy low standards. All you get is some """bros being bros banter""" (really low quality and not funny or entertaining) and some horrendous...I don't even know what to call it, but it's certainly not character development. More like "things happen to the protagonists and nobody really acknowlegdes shit".

Suddenly Noctis is whiny and Gladio is angry at him. And wow, Ignis is blind now. It's terrible. Really, really bad. As is the entire game.

I'm really glad someone else has this opinion, I really don't understand why people praise the main party of XV. Their banter is at best amusing, but is empty of meaning or depth. The story being so poorly told just accentuates this problem, as even the plot-relevant stuff they say lacks impact as a result.

There's good things about FFXV -- creature design and dungeon design for example -- but I really don't see the 'bros' as being one of them.

 

[Koozek]

It was pretty clear when Sakaguchi was still there. What a coincidence that the series started going downhill when he left and they started changing everything for the sake of change.

Sakaguchi in 2014 about the essence of FF:

"Say it's "what is born after those who live intensely, run across a multitude of unbeaten paths to reach the same goal in the end." After all, we've always strived to do new things, and I'd like it if we kept doing that."

[...]

"With Final Fantasy V, Kitase and I tried to change Final Fantasy and didn't hold back on our ideas. Even if we emptied ourselves, we'd pour out as many ideas as we could the next time around and change everything. Basically, 'so long as the blue window is there, you can do anything you want.'"​

I mean, yeah, if you change things constantly you also run into the risk of failing, but honestly, I'd rather take that risk and get something new every time. Following this franchise is still exciting to me for this very reason. Of course I wished there was a truly outstanding FF again on the level of TW3, and who knows, maybe next time... Or maybe not

 

[The Dude]

If I were to rank the games I'd be like this:

6>7>4>9>10>12>8>13


I love the original as well but it's just a different era, hard to just slide it in but it'd be around 4 and 9 if I truly had to place it somewhere.

15 just has a feel that simply isn't final fantasy. Everything about it, I wanted so badly to enjoy the game but I just can't stand it. I want to walk up and give stunners to every person on that team.