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FF12 makes me realize even more how bad 15 is
- Thread starter The Dude
- Start date
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Because I can totally utilize the combat and control the entire party.
It's more satisfying than holding attack button for an action game.
Pandora012
Member
Yeah noticed it in the beginning of Apocalypse. It's seems like it's one of the games that are unfortunately influenced by Persona. I think that's the main issue with Atlus now. They seem to be trying to make the other series more like Persona. While I love Persona, I want to have different experiences with the other series.
Really? That's sad. But isn't later in the game when you get the true leading man?
Pretty much, yes.
But you should want to interact with other players. It's a good thing.
AzureFlame
Member
In XV just triangle and R1 with 99 potion and ur done, you don't even need level and probably you wont ever see the game over other than from the car crash.
Not with that boring ass combat and quests.
I am down with this measured take, and for nuanced opinions on flawed games that take risks in general.
I think you don't have to grind since you get the most exp. from story quests anyway. But you will have to play with others to get through the dungeons you have to do from time to time.
That's not what i heard.
I thought the firs tcampagn which mean a lot of grinding wasn't too good.
But the REAL good part of the story was added after, i don't know the name of the extension but it's from there that the scenario really is incredible.
But before going here i would have to spent a lot of time grinding and playing a "not that cool" scenario campaign.
Is that wrong ?
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Yes but the story kinda loses itself midway.
You'll have to do MMO styled fetch quest and dungeons with other random players.
What you're describing is turn-based vs. round-based combat. In round-based, all combatants get one action per round, so everyone has a turn before someone gets a second turn. That's like Dragon Quest or FF1-3. In true turn-based combat, such as FF10, your characters get to choose their actions potentially several times before others may act. Yes, this seems related to ATB, and that may very well be where Tsuchida got the idea when he designed the system, as this was new to mainline FF by the time FF10 came around, but there are certainly no shortage of Japanese RPGs that were like this before FF10.
What most people seem to zero in on when praising FF10 is how you can affect the order of future actions based on the action you take right now, rather than being locked into a particular order determined by character speed. Grandia did this much earlier, of course, but by the time FF10 came around it was still fairly fresh and I'm more likely to give it points for pushing that kind of thing than just the 'turn order display.'
JoeyJungle
Banned
I had about ~90 hours of playtime before I got to the good parts of the story (about 3/4 through the 2.x story quests, it finally gets interesting).
I liked Heavensward, but I wasn't especially blown away by it. The ending of 2.x and the setup to Heavensward is probably the best part of the game I've seen so far. I'm still working my way through 3.x quests right now, and enjoying playing it.
Basically every couple months I get an itch to just teleport around a world and mindlessly kill 4 monsters or fetch random items, and I re-up my FFXIV subscription and work my way through the story a bit.
CloudStrife_ca
Member
I absolutely love FFXV, I know its not for everyone but it was the first FF I've played in a long time where it just consumed me and I played endlessly. I'm still playing it actually, for me its the best thing to come out of the series since the PSone era.
FFXII does symbolize the last game in the series I like before the super linear "Lightning, over complicated battle system era" put me off the series for awhile. Sure Vann is an Asian artists, 2am wet dream... drawing his vests smaller and smaller but the story is decent and I actually really liked the combat system. I've got my copy (steel book edition) and will start playing soon.
FFXII does symbolize the last game in the series I like before the super linear "Lightning, over complicated battle system era" put me off the series for awhile. Sure Vann is an Asian artists, 2am wet dream... drawing his vests smaller and smaller but the story is decent and I actually really liked the combat system. I've got my copy (steel book edition) and will start playing soon.
UtterlyPerplexed
Member
FFXIV will make you group up with other people for dungeons and group boss fights. There's a convenient group finder function to find other players to run the content with you, though you should be prepared to accept relatively lengthy queue times if you are playing anything other than a tank or a healer. You don't even need to be social. Generally people using the Duty Finder function just curtly say 'hi' at the start of the dungeon and a 'goodbye' or 'good job' at the end, or just say nothing at all unless something goes horribly wrong in the middle of the run.
For someone new to FFXIV, it is generally advised that they stick with the main story. It will usually give you gear to supplement what you acquire from dungeons to avoid having to mindlessly grind like your average current level 70 character.
But to be honest, I don't even know if I can really recommend FFXIV to offline FF fans who generally have little to no interest in MMORPGs. FFXIV is fortunately at its core a very casual experience and has managed to acquire considerable growth and success thanks to people new to the genre, but I still think you have to be open to learn, tolerate or even like the basic trappings of an MMORPG. You will be faced with a tediously slow start and a story that in my opinion does not even start to kick in until after level 50 and countless hours later. There's only so much I can say to people about how much better Heavensward and Stormblood are without having to flat out admit that ARR itself is a shitfest of a slog.
Not to mention navigation is a chore, and the quests that send you out into the open areas of the game are terrible. Not even going to comment on combat, because that's an entirely different discussion, just feel that XV wasted so much potential and in the end is a rubbish game for so many different reasons
Sorry to break it to you, but FFXV AI partners are not that great Period. If I must have AI characters in my party, I NEED them to be fully programmable. FFXII is leaps and bounds better that other ARPGS because of this.
Oh..
I dont have to talk to anyone? Does one get automatically paired when picking a quest?
I REALLY hate direct communicating with other strangers in games. My favorite online game is dark souls because of the indirect communcation - does not take you out of the game world.
Totally destroys my immersion when some character suddenly saying "hey man whats up" etc
No. I also don't find ARR all that engaging.. It has very interesting lore to read about in wikis and some exciting-in-concept events but I feel it's all held down by long-winded dialogue that bores me to death and it just fails to make most of its storytelling engaging. The cutscene direction is just so bad, the dialogue non-ending (while rarely saying anything too interesting to warrant such lengthy dialogue) and pacing even worse.
It's kind of entertaining to play but only with a group of good friends that makes even the tedious MMO grindfest quests bearable thanks to the social aspect.
LordKasual
Banned
its hilarious.
people railed this game just as hard as they did XV back when it came out
now it's just the best thing ever
Or there could be a lot of people who still thinks it's trash?
Someone will eventually talk to you in a massively multiplayer online game, yes. Sometimes you even may have to take direction from experienced people in your party and acknowledge them. You'll be okay.
100%TrophyMaster
Member
Ehhh....12 starts off strong but I recall the story falling off the map similar to FF15's last third. Gameplay wise they both have their merits...I wouldn't say one is significantly better than the other.
UtterlyPerplexed
Member
You can also just disable the chat box if you must.
Frankly it's not the ideal way to play the game. Like anything, socialising and making friends with people will do wonders for much of FFXIV's less thrilling content (and trust me, there's a lot of dull nonsense).
There is a free exp bonus for starting a character on an under populated server right now. I got a character to level 50 in one weekend only doing story and job quests.
Lights and Waves
Member
You think the paradigm shift battle system is more complicated than the gambits of XII? I really disagree here. XII can be a headache sometimes.
All the dungeons and major boss battles require basic co-operation to get through, so yeah at some point someone is going to say something to you, even if it's just a tip on how to get through something or how to do something better.
AlexFlame116
Member
One thing I won't understand is the hatred for Vaan. Sure he looks a lot different than the other heroes and he might not be as "cool" as Basch or Balthier but I still like him.
It really is funny. People's vocal distaste of FF12 are exactly why FF13 and FF15 are the way they are. People's complaints about the game playing itself are completely unfounded to me because you have never been offered that level of control over your team's actions. The gambit system is the thanks to the need to move in 3D space in battles now rather than stand in a row like before.
Were they the same people praising the game right now in this thread? Because that's an irrelevant point to make here.
What I think is happening here is how the bar was lowered with the following sequels which made people realize how precious XII was, even though it represented a change of focus for the series, which scared seasoned players and caused a lot of mindless uproar. After seeing what they did with the franchise with the XIII Trylogy and XV, it's easy to understand people showing more appreciation for XII.
CloudStrife_ca
Member
I really do, it turned me off that era entirely. Maybe I just found the battle system more rewarding in FFXII. Personally I miss turn based stuff but thats just me.
Lights and Waves
Member
Because it was the cool thing to do when the game first came out.
If these haters played past the first few hours, they'd learn that the game is entirely about underrated icon Ashe.
People try to hide it but I've gotten the impression that a lot of hate for Vaan comes from him not being a manly enough main character. Even if a lot of people avoid using insults like faggot/girly boy, it's clear that's where their dislike of Vaan is coming from, especially when a Real Man(tm) like Basch was going to be the main male character in early drafts, so they can be even more dismissive about a more androgynous effeminate man being given so much attention.
The rest are more legitimate complaints about his small role in the larger narrative and less legitimate complaints about his design (yes, the CGI art where he poses like a male model in some ads are bad, but his in-game model is perfectly fine apart from the weird inward abs; he's like a slightly more stylized Final Fantasy Aladdin).
Fluffhead14
Member
FFXV is simply unfinished. Completely rushed second half, made no sense.
Lights and Waves
Member
That's really interesting. XII to me is always an anxious race to keep your characters from dying/healing their afflictions. The system in XIII is just so exciting. Even more so in XIII-2, and Lightining Returns had an astonishingly challenging evolution of X-2.
AlexFlame116
Member
TheEndOfItAll
Neo Member
Somehow a bunch of Persona posts got mixed in, too.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
FFXII feels sort of like playing an offline MMO with a tighter story. You can tell it used XI as a base for its gameplay.
If only XII had things like Skillchains.
If only XII had things like Skillchains.
TheEndOfItAll
Neo Member
Hot take alert!
Rumblebones
Banned
The only FF game I've played so far is XV and I've lost a fair bit of interest going into chapter 3. I bought X for the PC though, is that considered a good one?
CloudStrife_ca
Member
With that said maybe I'll go back and try them again at some point, the characters werent bad in that atleast.
wait what
semiconscious
Gold Member
so, every strategy game ever made = 'player gimmicked into programming the battle for the devs? what's not legit about creating effective gambits? why is creating effective gambits less legit than going from one battle to the next manually doing what the gambits do anyway? you seriously feel that doing the same thing repeatedly, battle after battle, somehow makes it 'legit' because you're doing it manually?
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