• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Fighting Games Weekly | June 22-28 | Ryu's in Smash 4, Jigglypuff's in SF5

jerry1594

Member
Jul 13, 2012
10,054
0
0
img1.wikia.nocookie.net
I can't say I care much at all about the story. But that he was designed to be disliked is a load of bs, because then nobody would play him. He was designed to be funny, but is aggressively irritating.
 

Sayad

Member
Feb 24, 2014
9,257
0
435
Do you hate rufus cause he's a fat guy and fat guys are lame?

I don't think he is pleasant looking, but he's not supposed to be. He represents a different American stereotype from Guile and Ken. A white guy doing a bad imitation of kung fu among actual fighters seems like an idea that would work alone. But he is also a character so condensed in American modern convenience that he is morbidly obese and his thoughts are completely detached to reality. Contrast this to Dhaslim, one of the rivals he has in game. The ridiculously long win quotes...the fact that one of his attacks is called Jesus kick.. In my opinion, Rufus is actually one of the better new characters from a creative standpoint.


It's a step up from heart boobs. I would also argue he's above antihero edgelord Angelina Jolie and Jolyne Kujo with every psycho anime girl cliche attached.
Even as a character which is meant to be hated, it's still an incredibly bad design, they went with the cheapest most obvious way possible to execute it. Stupid hair, fat, obnoxious personality, silly stupid looking moves and if that wasn't enough to make people hate him, here's some yellow pubic hair. From a creative standpoint, you could probably get better results by asking a kindergarten kid to draw a bad guy character and I'm not even joking, whatever the kid come up with, will probably not be as obvious a design as Rufus'.
 

kirblar

Member
Oct 9, 2010
63,315
1
860
Having extra normals doesn't add depth?
I would strongly suspect they'll be back in SF6. SF5 is a deliberate move towards SF3's heavy rushdown-oriented gameplay. SF4 will still be on the same console generation for people to play if they want the slower paced game. The obvious move for SF6 is to go back to the SF2/4 style zoning gameplay, where Far/Close normals become a big deal for specific characters.
 

CountBlack

Member
Sep 29, 2011
19,197
0
0
Depends on how good they are. Ryu cMK the right choice in too many situations taking away other buttons.

Besides that, there is nothing proxy normals do that directional doesn't do better.

it's not necessarily about which are better, it's just about having that option imo.
 

DryEyeRelief

Member
Aug 25, 2007
16,392
0
1,050
I don't want to get into a huge debate over Rufus again. I don't think any part of the design was designed well. Not the clothing, facial hair, physique, any of it. It's not aesthetically pleasing especially compared to what we could have gotten from his earlier concepts. No, making him skinny does not change anything, ugly character art is ugly character art. It seems SNK are the only ones capable of making a heavy character that doesn't look like a middle school doodle.

If people like his design that's fine, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I don't wanf to be accused of not "understanding the thought process" behind the design. I dig that he was the bumbling overweight martial artist but just because I like the idea doesn't mean I like the design it's ultimately attached to.

It's like Birdy. They took what was already a unique looking character from the street fighter universe and decided to make him overweight with his belly hanging out because reasons and to twist the knife he scratches his ass in idle, lol get it guys it's funny.

Oh, then are views are pretty close then. I don't think Rufus has a great design either but I appreciate the premise more than a character meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator (Juri).

I don't know if there was much to honor when it came to Birdie. I think Rufus was above Birdie, even before the SFV spin. But I agree with making Birdie another bumbling fat guy is uncreative.
 

RockTurtle

Member
Mar 23, 2009
12,137
2
0
i've softened up on RUfus because i finally understand what Ono was going for.

Rufus is supposed was supposed to be a Yun/Yang replacement with his background being a goofy 1970s Kung Fu film based character with the funny fat slob character archetype.

Rufus, like C. Viper, is just a victim someone trying to tick as many archetype boxes as possible .

and i've learned that just because something is a trope, does not make it bad.

because even though we are all older and have seen this play out alot of times, there's people being born every second who have this as their first exposure.
 

Busaiku

Member
Apr 5, 2006
46,928
1
0
I don't think Street Fighter V will be as viewer friendly over a long period of time if it's more rushdown oriented.
 

DryEyeRelief

Member
Aug 25, 2007
16,392
0
1,050
Even as a character which is meant to be hated, it's still an incredibly bad design, they went with the cheapest most obvious way possible to execute it. Stupid hair, fat, obnoxious personality, silly stupid looking moves and if that wasn't enough to make people hate him, here's some yellow pubic hair. From a creative standpoint, you could probably get better results by asking a kindergarten kid to draw a bad guy character and I'm not even joking, whatever the kid come up with, will probably not be as obvious a design as Rufus'.

Haha given this visceral response I'm thinking perhaps the design is working as intended.

Yeah he has a happy trail. Does that bother you? It will probably bother you worse if you lose to someone using the character.
 

Horseress

Member
Oct 26, 2011
12,404
0
0
Oh, then are views are pretty close then. I don't think Rufus has a great design either but I appreciate the premise more than a character meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator (Juri).

I don't know if there was much to honor when it came to Birdie. I think Rufus was above Birdie, even before the SFV spin. But I agree with making Birdie another bumbling fat guy is uncreative.

Perfect. You can understand were Rufus's design comes from (unlike Birdie's new take), but Juri....she's just a hot Korean chick, nothing more, nothing less, straight up fan service
 

Karsticles

Member
Oct 25, 2010
44,326
0
0
Florida
www.youtube.com
Boring to watch and ugly to look at, worst combination you could have.
Hideous, really. Plus arguably top tier over multiple versions.

Having extra normals doesn't add depth?
Command normals like Guile's add depth, but it isn't deep if they autochange. That does thinking for you. Any time the game makes a decision for you, it is a loss of depth. Sometimes, that is okay, but I have never liked the game changing my normals for me. Sometimes I WANT the longer normal because of backsteps, etc.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Jun 7, 2009
78,135
0
0
I don't want to get into a huge debate over Rufus again. I don't think any part of the design was designed well. Not the clothing, facial hair, physique, any of it. It's not aesthetically pleasing especially compared to what we could have gotten from his earlier concepts. No, making him skinny does not change anything, ugly character art is ugly character art. It seems SNK are the only ones capable of making a heavy character that doesn't look like a middle school doodle.

If people like his design that's fine, I'm not trying to change anyone's mind. I don't wanf to be accused of not "understanding the thought process" behind the design. I dig that he was the bumbling overweight martial artist but just because I like the idea doesn't mean I like the design it's ultimately attached to.
Yeah the part of the Rufus debate that loses me is (what I sarcastically put above but more specifically) that it kind of hinges on the sheer crumminess of the stereotype with no redeeming factor. Every other character has something that makes them cool or plays up on some archetype in a way where you want to play them.

Rufus has none of that. Aesthetically pleasing? Nope. Does it make the fat guy martial artist thing cool? Nope. Does he have any cool moves? Nope. Okay so he's goofy, so is it in an endearing way? Nope. Maybe he has a cool/memorable for the right reasons VA? Nope. Is he so bad it's good in a cliche way? Nope.

You might disagree with one of these but even that's not enough for me to absolve myself of the boredom and perhaps missed opportunities with the character. Its remarkable to me that he can have so many traits of the lazy, overweight American and somehow none of the charm, comedy or likability of similar portrayals in other media found its way into Rufus. He's boring in a non-generic sense; the worst kind of boring because it's not baseline but exceptionally worthless.

Birdie aging like a middle-aged retired NFL linebacker/rock star is going to be a love/hate thing. I love it.
Yep, and it fits very well into them portraying him as a retired Shadaloo agent.

I don't think he lost anything going from Alpha to SFV (aside from some of the fuglier extra details in his visual design like the hole punch Mohawk); he was always heavy set you just can't see it the same on a 2D sprite, and same goes for them giving him some sort of personality and 3x the moves this go around.

it's not necessarily about which are better, it's just about having that option imo.
"Option?"
 
Mar 11, 2011
2,742
1
0
emezie.com
Having more options = more depth tho

Not really. If a move is worthless, it's worthless.

In fact, sometimes those extra moves are a detriment. Hugo's stand roundhouse will get HUGO hit. Hugo's crouch fierce will cost you rounds because it's so worthless. I'd honestly rather NOT have those attacks be in the game.

I'd rather not have Tekken syndrome where it's like "look at all the moves we have!"...but, most of them are never used.

Also, you don't necessarily have "more options" with proximity normals. Cammy's close fierce can only be used CLOSE. Now, in SF5 you can use it close and far. And, she now has two roundhouses that she can use both close and far.

Command normals are really the way to go. They actually give more meaningful depth, rather than superficial depth.

Okay so he's goofy, so is it in an endearing way? Nope. Maybe he has a cool/memorable for the right reasons VA? Nope. Is he so bad it's good in a cliche way? Nope.

He's not my favorite character, but Rufus actually is kinda endearing...he's pretty friendly and harmless. And, the mistaking everyone for Ken is a memorable enough gimmick that could get a chuckle every so often.

Plus, it's kinda respectable that a random Biker with a girlfriend named "Candy" learned kung fu via a correspondence course. That's not any stereotype I've ever seen. And, he's actually pretty good, judging by some win quotes against him.
 

Horseress

Member
Oct 26, 2011
12,404
0
0
Yep, and it fits very well into them portraying him as a retired Shadaloo agent.

Hmmm haven't thought about this...you may be right. Just like they made Bison older. Those character design choices makes me hopeful they'll actually make some kind of story mode in SFV
 

DryEyeRelief

Member
Aug 25, 2007
16,392
0
1,050
Perfect. You can understand were Rufus's design comes from (unlike Birdie's new take), but Juri....she's just a hot Korean chick, nothing more, nothing less, straight up fan service

It's more than that. Juri's personality is pandering. It's laughable, comparing it to Vega who is crazy for his narcissism theme. She's psycho because...psycho girls are hot I guess. So she says cliche lines like "If you cross me I'll kill you!" for no reason! She constantly licks her lips because she's supposed to be dangerous and that's hot too. And she fights only using kicks, because kicks are cool. and her gi's open so you can look at her crotch constantly in her neutral stance. And the fact that she's implied to be lesbian, with her hitting on Chun Li.

I would go as far to say Juri is more lowbrow than R Mika.
 

Shouta

Member
Jun 6, 2004
33,297
1,203
1,755
Having more options = more depth tho

That is only true when those options are meaningful. You can have a lot of choices but if there aren't situations that allow you to use that to it's maximum potential, then it's kind of whatever. There are many games where you get tons of choices but very literal reason to use them because of the game design,
 

Onemic

Member
Sep 27, 2007
22,722
0
1,290
T Dot
Personally, I hate close normals in SF. I'd much rather they turn into command normals, which is what they seem to be doing in SFV.

Not only are most close normals worthless, a lot of them, especially AA close normals, cant get used to their best ability because of the proximity needed to activate them.
 

Infinite

Member
Feb 6, 2010
17,582
0
0
It's more than that. Juri's personality is pandering. It's laughable, comparing it to Vega who is crazy for his narcissism theme. She's psycho because...psycho girls are hot I guess. So she says cliche lines like "If you cross me I'll kill you!" for no reason! She constantly licks her lips because she's supposed to be dangerous and that's hot too. And she fights only using kicks, because kicks are cool. and her gi's open so you can look at her crotch constantly in her neutral stance. And the fact that she's implied to be lesbian, with her hitting on Chun Li.

I would go as far to say Juri is more lowbrow than R Mika.
Her fighting style is Tae Kwon Do, a martial art originating from Korea which is characterized by its emphasis on head-height kicks, jumping and spinning kicks, and fast kicking techniques.
 

DryEyeRelief

Member
Aug 25, 2007
16,392
0
1,050
Her fighting style is Tae Kwon Do, a martial art originating from Korea which is characterized by its emphasis on head-height kicks, jumping and spinning kicks, and fast kicking techniques.

I know that. They chose a taekwondo fighter for that reason. Much like how they chose to make an oil wrestling character because they wanted comedy character.

Yeah the part of the Rufus debate that loses me is (what I sarcastically put above but more specifically) that it kind of hinges on the sheer crumminess of the stereotype with no redeeming factor. Every other character has something that makes them cool or plays up on some archetype in a way where you want to play them.

Rufus has none of that. Aesthetically pleasing? Nope. Does it make the fat guy martial artist thing cool? Nope. Does he have any cool moves? Nope. Okay so he's goofy, so is it in an endearing way? Nope. Maybe he has a cool/memorable for the right reasons VA? Nope. Is he so bad it's good in a cliche way? Nope.

I know you're hot on the Street Fighter train with V and marvel dying but tell me what's cool about Deejay. Or E Honda. Or even Zangief, who is thought to be a series staple.
 

RockTurtle

Member
Mar 23, 2009
12,137
2
0
I know you're hot on the Street Fighter train with V and marvel dying but tell me what's cool about Deejay. Or E Honda. Or even Zangief, who is thought to be a series staple.

is that a serious question?

a caribbean dance fighter, a traditional sumo wrestler with a penchant for flying headbutts, and a russian wrestler with spinning piledrivers? all basic to me with a touch of flair for allure.
 

Sayad

Member
Feb 24, 2014
9,257
0
435
Having more options = more depth tho
No, not necessarily. Magic series style combos, for example, usually give way more options than link/cancels only combo systems, yet they take a lot of depth from the game by allowing you to combo into your bnb from any normal.
 

Kumubou

Member
May 27, 2013
3,528
0
0
One thing I hope they remove in SF5 is overlapping inputs. Fuck that shit.
That's a problem that exists to some extent in nearly every fighting game ever made, so I can't see how SFV would completely fix that. Stuff like getting random specials in neutral because you grazed down-forward at the wrong time while waking back and forth could probably be fixed, though.
 

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Jun 7, 2009
78,135
0
0
I know you're hot on the Street Fighter train with V and marvel dying but tell me what's cool about Deejay. Or E Honda. Or even Zangief, who is thought to be a series staple.
It's a figure of speech. But I'll humour you:

- Deejay is generally awful in every conceivable way, but when I was kid I kind of found the big long orange track pants with no shirt on look to be kind of cool.

- E. Honda is a sumo through and through and he caricatures the archetype so well, that, he'll yeah I want to play the big sumo guy bullying people around

- Zangief always had that dope triangular chest hair and was grabbing and slamming motherfuckers face to pavement everywhere with this pose like he's ready to gouge your eyes out at any time. All in a red speedo. I have to explain Zangief?

The last two were also helped by their stages and really brought out their personalities IMO. I don't have to be the biggest fan of the character itself to understand whether it's good or bad design. And Rufus is bad because it doesn't even really do well at what it's tryjng to do, aside from being repulsive.
 

RockTurtle

Member
Mar 23, 2009
12,137
2
0
I'm sorry are you a hardcore deejay fan?

do i have to be?

he has his allure. a Caribbean fighter with cool looking pants, cool hairdo, big smile in a world full of serious stiffs, and even though mostly ineffective, rather flashy moveset.

i might not have used him cause i was attracted to other characters, but it's not hard to see his appeal. Only reason he gets severely overshadowed is because whatever he's good at, someone else does it better and looks just as cool, if not cooler, doing it.

and at that point's its more TECHNICAL aspects than thematic.
 

Sayad

Member
Feb 24, 2014
9,257
0
435
Haha given this visceral response I'm thinking perhaps the design is working as intended.

Yeah he has a happy trail. Does that bother you? It will probably bother you worse if you lose to someone using the character.
That the design work as intended doesn't make it a good design. By that logic, every scantily clad, dressed to impress female character in a videogame is a good design.
 

DryEyeRelief

Member
Aug 25, 2007
16,392
0
1,050
It's a figure of speech. But I'll humour you:

- Deejay is generally awful in every conceivable way, but when I was kid I kind of found the big long orange track pants with no shirt on look to be kind of cool.

- E. Honda is a sumo through and through and he caricatures the archetype so well, that, he'll yeah I want to play the big sumo guy bullying people around

- Zangief always had that dope triangular chest hair and was grabbing and slamming motherfuckers face to pavement everywhere with this pose like he's ready to gouge your eyes out at any time. All in a red speedo. I have to explain Zangief?

The last two were also helped by their stages and really brought out their personalities IMO. I don't have to be the biggest fan of the character itself to understand whether it's good or bad design. And Rufus is bad because it doesn't even really do well at what it's tryjng to do, aside from being repulsive.

I should have figured that asking that would get nowhere so

"Its remarkable to me that he can have so many traits of the lazy, overweight American and somehow none of the charm, comedy or likability of similar portrayals in other media found its way into Rufus. "

I rather hear an example of that.
 

Infinite

Member
Feb 6, 2010
17,582
0
0
I know that. They chose a taekwondo fighter for that reason. Much like how they chose to make an oil wrestling character because they wanted comedy character.

I assumed they chosed TKD because Juri is the first Korean fighter in the series and they wanted Korean martial art for her to go along.
 

CountBlack

Member
Sep 29, 2011
19,197
0
0

WHAT A GAWD


NIGGA WAS TALKIN SHIT WHILE SETH WAS WOBBLIN GETTING UP LIKE


THEN BAWPED OLE SILVER NINJA IN THE FACE


ON NATIONAL TELEVISION


GAWD
 
Mar 17, 2010
76,582
1
0
36
The Digital World
twitter.com
In a series full of stereotypes, some comedic and some not, people are complaining about a fat AMERICAN fighter.

OK then. I think Rufus' design is great, even if I don't like fighting him. At least the last few posts were better than "he's so fat why is he alive" like dahbomb proposed.