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[RevenantKioku]

Click for the video.

 

[Red Scarlet]

Congrats.

 

[Ourobolus]

Click for the video.

Awesome. Congrats!
Can I get one PEINS for helping?

 

[charlequin]

:bow rk :bow2

 

[Man God]

I still say that my method of just leaving it on for five hours with 3 party members with reflect rings on is the way to do the Fork Tower with a party like that. Running him out of MP is safer than trying to kill him during the short short window that he is silenced.

We had about the same party too! I had Monk, Berserker, Beastmaster, Dragoon. Berserker easily solo'd Minotaur. Other three just sat there. Once about an hour in I threw a hi-potion on the dragoon because of a string of drains.

 

[Yaweee]

So now that most participants have finished, what are everybody's thoughts on their various classes?

Best?

Worst?

Conditionally useful/awful?

Best/worst set of four that were actually handed out?

Best/worst possible set of four? I'm interested in trying the worst team, either from ANY 4, or one from each crystal set.

BEST: Summoner
Summoner proved to be ridiculously powerful, to the point where all four of my party members had !Summon for Exdeath. Throughout most of the game, summon spells would one-shot the entire enemy group. First it was the basic elemental summons. Then it was Titan. Then Syldra, then Bahamut, then Odin.

On top of that, Phoenix is a good 1k damage that fully revives a person to max HP/MP. Golem shuts out physical damage, and Carbuncle frees up your accessory slots in the very few fights where reflect is useful.

All in all, the cornerstone of my party. A single-class challenge with 4 summoners would probably be pretty easy, except for a few physical fights.

I know people were saying how awesome Samurai are, and that's true for a fair portion of the game, but by the end Bahamut regularly did more damage than Coin Toss. I think the latter overtakes Bahamut for damage against Neo Exdeath somewhere around level 48.

WORST: Geomancer
There is a segment near the end of World 1 and early in World 2 where the Geomancer's !Gaia skill is fucking amazing. It can one-shot enemy groups, deal more damage than any other class, and draws a few elements normally unavailable (like air against the boss in Lonka Ruins). However, the damage barely scales with level, and the good draws become increasingly rare, leaving the Geomancer as a giant waste of AP with awful HP.



If I'm taking one job from each crystal, I think the worst party would be:
Thief: Low damage, crappy-ish armor.
Berserker: No control.
Bard: What good songs do they have? I honestly don't know.
Dancer: No Hp, random utility.

Berserkers get a lot of hate, but at least they can do damage. Unfortunately, everything else from the Water Crystal is pretty good, so I can't imagine any of the alternatives being worse.

I still say that my method of just leaving it on for five hours with 3 party members with reflect rings on is the way to do the Fork Tower with a party like that. Running him out of MP is safer than trying to kill him during the short short window that he is silenced.

We had about the same party too! I had Monk, Berserker, Beastmaster, Dragoon. Berserker easily solo'd Minotaur. Other three just sat there. Once about an hour in I threw a hi-potion on the dragoon because of a string of drains.

That works? I read online that there's actually a time limit for Omniscient before the towers blow up, but I guess that was just a rumor...

 

[Red Scarlet]

I still say that my method of just leaving it on for five hours with 3 party members with reflect rings on is the way to do the Fork Tower with a party like that. Running him out of MP is safer than trying to kill him during the short short window that he is silenced.

We had about the same party too! I had Monk, Berserker, Beastmaster, Dragoon. Berserker easily solo'd Minotaur. Other three just sat there. Once about an hour in I threw a hi-potion on the dragoon because of a string of drains.

He tried your method a lot of times, and it wasn't working. He tried his own, and it worked...and I don't know anyone that would take a 5-hour attempt over a 5-minute one. You lost.

 

[charlequin]

I still say that my method of just leaving it on for five hours with 3 party members with reflect rings on is the way to do the Fork Tower with a party like that.

So now that most participants have finished, what are everybody's thoughts on their various classes?

I would write a long, drawn out response except that you said exactly the same thing I would. :lol Summoner is awesome (tons of damage output, plus amazing utility), Geomancer kind of sucks (no good abilities to learn so it wastes AP) although it was pretty good in my party since it saved me tons of MP through most of world 2.

I agree with your assessment of the worst possible party as well drawing one from each crystal, although I think Monk really is close enough for government work.

 

[PataHikari]

Congradulations RK!

 

[Link Man]

Bard: What good songs do they have? I honestly don't know.

Actually, they're a pretty good support class. Mighty March casts Regen on all party members for 0 MP, Romeo's Ballad can stop random enemies (and some bosses, perhaps) from acting during battle, there's a song that confuses all enemies, and Hero's Rhyme is supposed to increase stats like attack, stamina, etc. by about 10%.

Oh, and congrats to the Peinsmaster.

 

[PataHikari]

Best/worst?

BEST: Black Mage

By far the job that I got the most use out of, !Black was my subcommand for almost every character throughout most of the game. They did the absolute most damage for the vast majority of the game. While Sword Dance did outclass it in pure damage eventually (with a blast of 9999 damage) it wasn't as consistent as Black Magic is. Funnily enough, with the Magus Rod equipped, Firaga/Blizzaga/Thundaga did more damage then Flare. :lol

Worst: Beastmaster

Not to say it's a bad job, per say. But Beastmaster is more useful for the skills it offers to support other jobs then the job itself. While it's capable of doing a powerful shot... it can only do it once.

 

[Man God]

The best class in this game is Chemist. The worst is a lot harder to quantify because it all depends on how you are playing. White Mages are an absolute chore until Holy all by themselves, but are fantastic in any group. Red Mages suck without some other Magic to cast twice. Berserkers need levels, luck, and good equips to get by. Geomancers have shitty stats and Gaia sucks. Bards are only really good against Undead, but if you keep them alive long enough you can get some serious buffs going.

With this challenge the worst group would probably be Monk, Berserker, Elementalist, Dragoon. Even that isn't so bad, just very little synergy. The worst four classes all jobs would probably be Red Mage, Bard, Berserker, Elementalist. Still probably doable.

 

[ixix]

My best class was Chemist, for reasons I don't think need to be belabored further.

For worst... I'm actually gonna go with Time Mage. I never really paid it much mind before, but Time Magic really pretty much blows. Offense sucks, healing sucks, status effects in general aren't overwhelmingly useful and are done better and for free by other classes. All I ever used Time Magic for was casting Hastega.

Actually, they're a pretty good support class. Mighty March casts Regen on all party members for 0 MP, Romeo's Ballad can stop random enemies (and some bosses, perhaps) from acting during battle, there's a song that confuses all enemies, and Hero's Rhyme is supposed to increase stats like attack, stamina, etc. by about 10%.

Oh, and congrats to the Peinsmaster.

There's also Requiem, which does good damage to undead. Which isn't all that useful for most of the game, but can be useful for grinding if you go to an undead-heavy area.

Bard's pretty terribad overall, but they're not as utterly useless as I thought they were before this challenge.

 

[Link Man]

My best class was Chemist, for reasons I don't think need to be belabored further.

For worst... I'm actually gonna go with Time Mage. I never really paid it much mind before, but Time Magic really pretty much blows. Offense sucks, healing sucks, status effects in general aren't overwhelmingly useful and are done better and for free by other classes. All I ever used Time Magic for was casting Hastega.



There's also Requiem, which does good damage to undead. Which isn't all that useful for most of the game, but can be useful for grinding if you go to an undead-heavy area.

Bard's pretty terribad overall, but they're not as utterly useless as I thought they were before this challenge.

Yeah, forgot about Requiem. Makes the Dragon Vale and Undersea Trench a breeze.

 

[ccbfan]

This is all in respect to this challenge.

Best Class for me was Chemist easily.

Its also probably the best class in the game overall because of mix. While mostly single target, Chemist the best healing and buffing capabilities in the game. Blood Kiss is broken as hell. I mean double HP, raise 10/20 levels that stack, revive with full hp/mp, heal 2k while also damaging 2k in one move. Even little stuff like float,increase elemental attack, ect is extremely useful. Mix is also the perfect 2nd skill. Makes character broken no matter the class.

Worst class for me is Red Mage. Great first world useless past that. Can't equip best swords, can't overcome run with chicken knife and without a partner magic, its best offense becomes breaking rods. Luckily I had Mix so no one not even a shrunken frog is useless.

Hard to say what is the worst class. Even the bad classes have their niches like bard with undeads, geos make world 1 and 2 easy, beastmaster with blue magic and 9999 nukes, berserkers are hella strong and if you have a knight/ninja as a side class he's hella strong with 2 hands/2 swords, thief can get some of the best weapons and allows users to always be every well equiped as well as his speed skill is pretty good.

Worst party IMO is

Thief
White Magic
Berserker
Bard

Enjoy your only source of damage being the character you can't control.

 

[Man God]

White Mage is a good source of damage after you get Holy, but I had considered this as a possible worst party candidate.

 

[Ourobolus]

BEST class for me was undeniably the Blue Mage. Getting Mighty Guard and White Wind was crucial to my survival, especially given the infrequency of Sword Dance I seemed to be getting most of the game.

Dancer was decent, but sometimes unreliable and not as useful until I got the Chicken Knife.
Beastmaster was just OK for most of the game - great for the Blue Mage, but in the end game he was relegated to Ether/Elixir/Phoenix Down duty.

WORST class was Berserker, simply because while he was quite useful during Neo Exdeath, he was pretty annoying to have around other times.

The worst four classes all jobs would probably be Red Mage, Bard, Berserker, Elementalist. Still probably doable.

This is what I'm doing right now, actually, and I've made it to Necrophobe so far. The best is the Elementalist, and the worst being the Berserker. Oddly enough, while the Berserker does decent damage, the ability to confuse or stop entire enemy parties is quite useful. I get the feeling the Bard isn't going to be as useful on Exdeath, though.

Worst party IMO is

Thief
White Magic
Berserker
Bard

Enjoy your only source of damage being the character you can't control.

Nah, once you get Holy your White Mage is great, and the Thief can equip a good assortment of knives (including the Chicken Knife). The Bard can be useful in some situations, though.

That works? I read online that there's actually a time limit for Omniscient before the towers blow up, but I guess that was just a rumor...

No, the time limit is from when it tells you to trigger the Omni fight and when you touch the orb. There's no time limit during the fight. Whittling Omni down to 0MP isn't as easy as you'd think, because if he somehow ends up with just 1MP left, the only spell he can cast is Return, and if you hit him...restart.

 

[PataHikari]

Starting a non challenge FF5 game now.

I think this is the first time ever Black Mage isn't in my immediate party. :lol

 

[ccbfan]

Nah, once you get Holy your White Mage is great, and the Thief can equip a good assortment of knives (including the Chicken Knife). The Bard can be useful in some situations, though.

Think about when you get holy and when you get chicken knife.

Now think about how the heck you're gonna beat atomos, byblos, and that stupid fire hand.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Going for the final dungeon now. Berserker with Kaiser Knuckles does crazy damage but will having two Ribbon-less characters really work out for Exdeath?

 

[RevenantKioku]

Hmm. So how do I even begin to...?

 

[ixix]

Hmm. So how do I even begin to...?

The solution to your problem -- and the solution to every problem, for that matter -- is grinding.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Where is good XP? I guess I am pretty low. 32 doesn't seem right for end game.

 

[Ourobolus]

Where is good XP? I guess I am pretty low. 32 doesn't seem right for end game.

I managed to win at 36, so you aren't too far off. The best XP will be from Iron Giants in the last section of the Rift before the Void, but they can be a pain in the ass, and you don't always encounter them. For the most part any of the tablet dungeons can give decent XP.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Yeah my HP is just a little bit too low. As long as somone non Berserker can survive punishing blows (and the next one doesn't come too soon!).
I can't even begin to touch an Iron Giant. It destroyed me. If it weren't for these fucking ninjas that dodge everything, I'd be able to get some XP from the area right before it. The dragons and other things that pop up seem to give decent for the effort it takes.

 

[Link Man]

Think about when you get holy and when you get chicken knife.

Now think about how the heck you're gonna beat atomos, byblos, and that stupid fire hand.

Not to mention trying to fight Omniscient in order to even get Holy.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Yeah, level 36 isn't cutting it either. My HP is so damn low that I just get wiped out once he does that move. Maybe the Berserker lives but that's not good odds.
I delt 29997 damage to each segment after destroying the one that Odin can handle. But that is where my momentum dies and I have to rely on the 2k hits from the Beastmaster from the Rune Axe and maybe getting lucky with the Dancer if she isn't dead.
Not sure if there is any other choice but getting more HP.
Maybe some better gear? Two characters are sporting Reflect Rings (Berserker and Beastmaster) but I have a feeling they could use those slots for something better for Neo Exdeath. Any ideas?

 

[Ourobolus]

Yeah, level 36 isn't cutting it either. My HP is so damn low that I just get wiped out once he does that move. Maybe the Berserker lives but that's not good odds.
I delt 29997 damage to each segment after destroying the one that Odin can handle. But that is where my momentum dies and I have to rely on the 2k hits from the Beastmaster from the Rune Axe and maybe getting lucky with the Dancer if she isn't dead.
Not sure if there is any other choice but getting more HP.
Maybe some better gear? Two characters are sporting Reflect Rings (Berserker and Beastmaster) but I have a feeling they could use those slots for something better for Neo Exdeath. Any ideas?

Well, defending against Almagest...I dunno. It's a holy spell, and I can't think of anything that would lessen that damage.

Definitely give your Berserker Hermes Sandles. He can only attack, so why not let him attack faster? Carbuncle appears from the Magic Lamp, so you get a free cast of reflect down the road. Also make sure to cast Golem to help with some damage.
I take it you're using !Catch as your secondary ability and then hitting him with that dragon spell, which is probably the best course, but if you MUST, you also have HP+30%.
Make sure your Dancer is equipped with all of the dancing gear. Your Beastmaster will probably be relegated to healing duty.

 

[Saerk]

Where is good XP? I guess I am pretty low. 32 doesn't seem right for end game.

I was 40 when I beat the game. If you have a way to cast shell it cuts that spells dmg in half. Perhaps one of the summons, magic lamp, can cast it.

I did the whole fight ribbon less and never saw it as a great need, but hell I had white mages.

 

[Saerk]

Worst party IMO is

Thief
White Magic
Berserker
Bard

Enjoy your only source of damage being the character you can't control.

That party is completely doable Id say. My party was a better with time mage and archer instead of berserker and bard, but just have the thief and white mage will take you through the game. The berserker will probably be comparable dmg if not better than the archer, perhaps till !XFight (random targets hurrah). The archer did have the benefit of getting my magi equip bow though.

Omniscient will give you some trouble, but I beat him with a white mage / archer by spamming mute all the damn time. Just send a Thief with subbed white + mage masher and a white mage to make sure he is always muted.

 

[RevenantKioku]

I never got a solid answer on the Dancer equipment thing, but it really doesn't seem like having all 3 equipped changes anything...

 

[ixix]

I never got a solid answer on the Dancer equipment thing, but it really doesn't seem like having all 3 equipped changes anything...

I'm pretty sure the Dancer equipment just makes it so one of the weaksauce dances is Sword Dance instead, and so without a piece of Dancer equipment you have a 25% chance of Sword Dance and 4 total possible dances, and with a piece of Dancer equipment you have a 50% chance of Sword Dance and 3 total possible dances.

So your chance of Sword Dance never goes above 50%, no matter how many pieces of Dancer equipment you equip.

 

[Chris R]

Where is good XP? I guess I am pretty low. 32 doesn't seem right for end game.

Does seem kinda low seeing as I'm almost 27 and not even left the 2nd world yet :lol

 

[Link Man]

It is done! Had a spot of trouble with Twintania until I discovered that his level is divisible by 3. Other than that, my party seemed perfectly tuned for fighting Neo-Exdeath; Zeninage was great for hitting multiple targets, Rapid Fire Flare Sword was all kinds of awesome (Lenna helped with a second Enhancer and Flare Sword, when she wasn't healing), Mighty Guard cut his big AOE attack in half, and White Wind was always there to bring people back from the brink. [Here's a fun little trick with White Wind: use Hi-Potions on your Blue Mage until their turn comes up for better healing!] Faris really didn't do much except assist with Blue Magic (still a big help) and sometimes get a critical hit.

Anyway, here's the pics:

Hardest part for me was definitely the crystals in the Forest of Moore. Oh, and I skipped the Undersea Trench simply because I didn't want to do it (and didn't need to).

I'm tempted to play a normal game now. It was an interesting experience to limit myself and step outside of my comfort zone, but I would like to at least try the Chemist out, having ignored it previously. I did learn a lot about the Blue Mage, though, so that was nice.

Look forward to the next FF challenge.

 

[Ourobolus]

It is done! Had a spot of trouble with Twintania until I discovered that his level is divisible by 3. Other than that, my party seemed perfectly tuned for fighting Neo-Exdeath.

Dude, your party was awesome for Neo Exdeath.

RK - Dancer equipment, at least from what I've read, increases the chance of performing Sword Dance to 25% for each item - so 75% for all of them. Don't quote me on that, but having Sword Dance during the Exdeath fight made it drastically easier. Sword Dance + Chicken Knife = 8000+ damage. I may have had a Blue Mage to negate damage a bit, but as far as damage output was concerned, I only had my Berserker with a hasted Rune Axe and a Dancer with Sword Dance.

 

[ccbfan]

That party is completely doable Id say. My party was a better with time mage and archer instead of berserker and bard, but just have the thief and white mage will take you through the game. The berserker will probably be comparable dmg if not better than the archer, perhaps till !XFight (random targets hurrah). The archer did have the benefit of getting my magi equip bow though.

Omniscient will give you some trouble, but I beat him with a white mage / archer by spamming mute all the damn time. Just send a Thief with subbed white + mage masher and a white mage to make sure he is always muted.

Your party is much much better.

Its not just Time Mage >>>> Bard and Archer > Berserker.

Its Time Mage >>>> Bard, Archer > Berserker, Thief w/ x-fight>>>>>>>Thief w/any skill from other party and White Mage w/ Time Magic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>(do I have enough greaters?) White Mage w/any skill from other party.

The posted party have one major problem. Offense for 80 percent of the game. Fights where the enemy can heal themselves or counter or you have to kill quickly (like the 3 enemies atomos, byblos, fire hand thing) its near impossible without putting your bard on hide and wait a few days. With Time Magic(Haste, Demi and Comet plus slow/stop fors for a lot of enemies) and x-fight. This major disadvantage is nuetralised.

 

[ccbfan]

It is done! Had a spot of trouble with Twintania until I discovered that his level is divisible by 3. Other than that, my party seemed perfectly tuned for fighting Neo-Exdeath; Zeninage was great for hitting multiple targets, Rapid Fire Flare Sword was all kinds of awesome (Lenna helped with a second Enhancer and Flare Sword, when she wasn't healing), Mighty Guard cut his big AOE attack in half, and White Wind was always there to bring people back from the brink. [Here's a fun little trick with White Wind: use Hi-Potions on your Blue Mage until their turn comes up for better healing!] Faris really didn't do much except assist with Blue Magic (still a big help) and sometimes get a critical hit.

Anyway, here's the pics:

Hardest part for me was definitely the crystals in the Forest of Moore. Oh, and I skipped the Undersea Trench simply because I didn't want to do it (and didn't need to).

I'm tempted to play a normal game now. It was an interesting experience to limit myself and step outside of my comfort zone, but I would like to at least try the Chemist out, having ignored it previously. I did learn a lot about the Blue Mage, though, so that was nice.

Look forward to the next FF challenge.

Holy crap.

You might have the best party of anyone in this challenge.

 

[charlequin]

Holy crap.

You might have the best party of anyone in this challenge.

I'm not even sure you can get a better party. Blue Mage covers all kinds of utility magic and even healing, Mystic Knight pumps out elemental damage, Ranger gives you access to !X-Fight, and Samurai is just ridiculous.

Maxrpg had a really good party too (Knight-Mystic-Ninja-Chemist) but I think Link Man beats it, and I don't see anyone else on a superficial examination that compares.

 

[Link Man]

Holy crap.

You might have the best party of anyone in this challenge.

True, but I didn't have White Wind until the end of World 2 (though !Animals helped with that) or Mighty Guard until after the Pyramid. Plus my Mystic Knight was stuck with a crappy sword until the Waterfall Cave.

On the other hand, the Gargoyles were a piece of cake.

 

[B.K.]

It just took me a month, but I finally made it to the second world! Those bomb monsters at one of the meteorites gave me some problems. I had to waste a few Phoenix Downs in that fight, but I got through it.

 

[Ri'Orius]

I'm nearing the end of my run (just got the second lithograph; still need to go get some more summons, esp. Phoenix), and just want to say:

Bards are frickin' awesome.

For most of the game, they can Stop or Charm all enemies in a random battle with no MP usage pretty regularly. When your only source of healing is Tonics, that's a huge boon. They just let you waltz through random battles without any resource expenditure.

Plus, their LVL Song? Soooo nice. The way it works is (from what I can tell) the bard will sing until he's hit with a physical attack. For every time interval for which he sings, all of your party gets boosts to all stats. Oh my goodness does it help. I've currently got three party members with !Sing; for hard battles, one will start off with Str. Song (Regen on everyone) and then all three will sing LVL Song. The increased stats makes the Regen effect better (or so I think; haven't confirmed...), plus it quickly increases my damage output like woah.

Repeat: like woah.

Summoner is nice utility (Golem 4tmfw), but too often I find that my opponents aren't vulnerable to Earth (need to get Bahamut so that's not a concern...), or I can't risk hitting all enemies for whatever reason. LVL Song, meanwhile, just makes everyone on my team a powerhouse in whatever they do. So good.

For reference, my party is Monk, Summoner, Bard, Lancer. The lack of healing hurts, but I have so much utility! Summoner, Bard, !Lance (I've always loved MP drain effects; I'm way stingy about spending MP otherwise)... !Chakra helped early game, but has since been overshadowed by !Lance, which will heal for about the same but also damage and drain MP.

Anyway, it's been going well, but I've still got a ways to go. And yeah, Bards are awesome. Don't knock 'em.

 

[RevenantKioku]

My HP is so poopy. I really don't want to level but I don't see any other recourse at this point. "/
It's going to be a long time before the Dancer gets 1600+ HP so that many not be a reasonable course of action. (Lena is looking to be the best choice for Dancer as Faris makes a better monk.)
The real problem is there's not good place for me to reasonable level, so I'm going back and forth right before the waterfall cave thing since I can heal at the sub for free. At least I'm getting some Japanese studying done while I grind! :lol

 

[RevenantKioku]

If there weren't enough fucking reasons to hate Berserkers... THEY CAN FUCKING TARGET THE PIECES OF NEOEXDEATH THAT CANNOT BE DAMAGED!
That's great. That's so fucking super. Because fuck if this wasn't hard enough, I definitely needed turns wasted on no damage being done to otherwise untargetable bits.

 

[Man God]

Does the Dancer even need a second ability? You could go HP +30%.

Only one piece of dancing gear is needed to up Swords Dance, unfortunately, ribbon isn't included. No benefit from stacking the rest.

 

[RevenantKioku]

Absolutely. I need to release the three dragons for 9999 damage.

 

[Man God]

Yeah, that's what I decided on too, but an alive Dancer is going to do a hell of a lot more damage over time than 9999, so looks like you need to level.

It might be slow going considering you can't do Iron Giants well (I believe they are weak to insta-death so you could try that) but you can control Shield Dragons for some fairly easy exp back at Kuza...

 

[RevenantKioku]

Click for video!
Yes, the video jumps in the middle because I cut out Exdeath's moanings to get it under ten minutes. I had been trying a long time but it seems the key was dropping the Equip Ribbon and Hermes Shoes on the Berserker in exchange for Barefisted and Kaiser Knuckles. Risiker, but the damage output was a lot higher.
I got lucky, but that was all I needed. No characters dead, either!

Definitely one of the less good parties. I don't even know where to begin with the lack of synergy and options. Sure Bareknuckled Berserker with Kaiser Knuckles can do damage, but shit. There are better choices. If I didn't love this game so much I don't know if I could have made it through this.

 

[Man God]

Nice Finish! Congratulations!

 

[Dascu]

Congratulations, you crazy old man.

 

[Corran Horn]

Damn congrats